Gestalt Ideas: Healer Tank

[Timballisto]

I will be playing in my first 3.5 Gestalt game and I'm hoping to get some build advice.

The campaign starts the PCs at level 8, going all the way to 20 (I think). I want to be a dwarf in full plate that can tank damage on the front lines, gives as good as he gets, and can heal himself and others if the need calls for it. I was thinking Cleric/Deep Warden//Paladin/Ruby Knight Vindicator.

Any better ideas? And please be specific, I hate the crunch but I love the flavor of character creation.

[legomaster00156]

A healer/tank can be done with a single class. Cleric or Paladin. Your build is obviously improved over that, though.

[Gnaeus]

Very solid. 9th level spells from cleric-side, good BAB, hp, saves, immunities from paladin-side. With Battle Blessing, paladin spells as swifts give it good action economy. It has small weakness (skill points, reflex saves), but overall it gets an A.

[Psyren]

Crusader//Commoner. There you go, healing and tanking in one :smallwink:

[Averis Vol]

this looks good, if your going enough into paladin to get the mount ide suggest the divine spirit varient from dungeonscape, it gets rid of your mount (oh darn right?) and instead gives you some nifty spirits, since you only have a few levels in paladin you'll at least get the only one you need, it can heal for an amount equal to twice your LoH in addition to your normal LoH and has its own turn so you can keep on hitting stuff while it goes around healing.

[Hiro Protagonest]

D&D doesn't have tanking. It has lockdown. Grab a reach weapon, get Improved Trip, Stand Still, and Thicket of Blades, maybe drop the Deep Warden (unless it advances cleric casting), use a DMM: Persistent Shield Other on a teammate (probably the rogue, since he's with you on the front lines but is really squishy), and find ways of increase your reach (a good idea is grabbing the Strength domain and using DMM: Persistent Enlarge Person until 9th level, at which point you can switch to DMM: Persistent Righteous Might).

[Jack_Simth]

I will be playing in my first 3.5 Gestalt game and I'm hoping to get some build advice.

The campaign starts the PCs at level 8, going all the way to 20 (I think). I want to be a dwarf in full plate that can tank damage on the front lines, gives as good as he gets, and can heal himself and others if the need calls for it. I was thinking Cleric/Deep Warden//Paladin/Ruby Knight Vindicator.

Any better ideas? And please be specific, I hate the crunch but I love the flavor of character creation.
One of the big goals that helps lead to "fun" for the group as a whole is to neither be too terribly much stronger, nor too terribly much weaker, than the rest of the members of the group. Which means specific advice mostly requires that we also know about where the other members of the group are pegged. Do you have their builds, by any chance?

[kulosle]

Healing makes its own kind of tank. If you are healing the party all the time the enemy will want to focus on you first.

[Draken]

I would dare recommend a simpler Crusader/Incarnate combo (if you have Magic of Incarnum, that is). Incarnate gives a whole slew of useful defensive and offensive abilities to pick from and crusader.

Well, crusader is crusader.

[Tr011]

I think you shouldn't mix a Healer/Tank class (cleric) with another Healer/Tank class (paladin).
If you want to get really awesome in casting AND be really awesome in healing, you need a couple of things:
1. A caster class with full progression and awesome healing and buff spells.
2. High AC
3. High HD on each level
4. DR
5. High saves on each level
6. Evasion and Mettle
7. either a spell to enhance BAB or full BAB on each level

As a caster class, you should consider Archivist to get almost any spell you want.
Or you go arcane, so you can use that Paragnostic PrC (lvl1) from CC and Abjurant Champion (lvl5) to cast Greater Mage Armor for a total armor bonus of +13 (as much as a Full Plate +5 gives) and you still don't wear any armor, so you can use a good Robe + Monk's Belt + monk 2 for saves, evasion, 2 bonus feats (maybe use ACF to get a wide range of feats), monk's IUS (arguably can make touch attacks without using hands) and wis to AC. Also a casting of shield gives you +9 shield bonus to AC then, as much as a Tower Shield +5 would do. Remember that there are not much Arcane spells to heal, but there's still a couple to do that.
If you want to play a dwarf, use that PrC to get Con to AC, too.

[Fouredged Sword]

I am going to suggest you branch out from Paladin // cleric. I would suggest an alternate build.

Psionics work with armor just fine. Go cleric / Crusader / RKV // Psion(egoist).

Now you have one side that functions just fine without any added PRC's freeing up your progression on the other side.

Another method is a wizard ACF that grants them the ability to ignore 20% ASF. You loose a spell slot I think, but oh well. Now get twilight full plate and you are good to go for arcane magic. Now you mix in some swiftblade and you have tasty speed and an extra standard action every round to heal while you attack or attack while you heal.

[kardar233]

If you're Gestalt with a healer class, that deals with a big chunk of the problems with the Knight. Consider going that way. Knight/RKV sounds good.

[Seerow]

Can you do RKV in gestalt? I thought dual progression classes were explicitly banned.

[Namfuak]

Can you do RKV in gestalt? I thought dual progression classes were explicitly banned.

Explicitly discouraged. It's entirely feasible though.

[Averis Vol]

Or you go arcane, so you can use that Paragnostic PrC (lvl1) from CC and Abjurant Champion (lvl5) to cast Greater Mage Armor for a total armor bonus of +13

mage armor greaters a conjuration spell, doesnt work with abjurant champion. but still a +6 to AC isn't terrible. alternately if your going caster theres always mithral twilight chain shirt.

[kulosle]

So i've been trying to make a good tank build lately. What i've come up with is half Minotaur half goliath ardent 10/knight 4/crusader 4-6 depending on whether or not there is LA buyoff. For the other side i'd suggest cleric as your base class, prestigious paladin 2 and what ever full casting prestige class you want.