Psionic Build questions

[Naoki00_]

I'm being invited to join a Campaign and I'm hoping to play a psionic build, but I've never really done anything with them before and so am at a bit of a loss.

Personally I'd really like to go straight Psychokinesis stuff since I like more the flavor of throwing things and people around like dolls and causing mind-twisters everywhere, but I'd also like to have some melee ability as a back up plan. I know about the Psychic Warrior class but I've been told by the DM that it's not really an good...I wouldn't know but I took his word on it.

Does anyone know of a good build for Psionics that allows eventual 9th level powers and good melee capabilities, and if not good melee at least some very awesome abilities to play with?

Also, what would be other good power types to look at? like telepathy and such.

[Mezmote]

Here you go:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19571514/3.5_Psion_Buildguide_and_Compendium

Have a look around.

[sonofzeal]

Psychic Warrior is fine. It's a big step up from Fighters, pretty much on par with Tome of Battle if a bit later-blooming.

The other option is Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm). An 8th level Psion gets in easily, and from then on you get full BAB and 9/10 manifesting progression, as well as an array of doodads. Wilders get in at lvl 6 and are more competent warriors in the first place, but gain a bit less.

Actually, Wilders are a great place to start for Psi, especially if you're looking to gish. Just pick your powers carefully and take Expanded Knowledge a few times, and you've got a reasonable Gish.

[Psyren]

Don't use the handbook Mezmote linked, it's horribly out of date and incomplete. Use Saeomon's Psion Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10238.0) instead.

And yes, Slayer is your best option as far as a psionic gish. Sanctified Mind from Lords of Madness is also worth a look (though it is better for Wilders.)

[Bloodgruve]

I personally like the Ardent, it has Mantles like cleric domains. There is an Alternate Class Feature (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) Substitute Powers that allows you to add powers to each Mantle's power list if it fits the flavor, which is pretty wide open ;) There is also another ACF for the ardent, Dominant Ideal, that allows you to not expend your focus on powers from the selected mantle when using metapsionic feats.

What this means is that if you were to take say Freedom, Natural World and another utility or blasty mantle you could gish the build up. Claws of the Beast and Dragon Tail (Secrets of Sarlona), using Substitute Power into Natural World, for some natural attacks and Dimension Hop for mobility in combat. Linked Power feat on your Dominant Ideal; Freedom Dimension Hop and Hustle can break the action economy with swift porting and extra move actions each round.

Claws of the Beast + Dimension Hop + Energy Ray = Wolverine/Nightcrawler/Cyclops ;)

Very fun build. Look at different mantles to flavor to taste.

GL
Blood~

[Rubik]

What is your starting level, and what sources are available?

Psywars are pretty darned awesome, though you have to be really careful about how you deal with your power point reserve. It's TINY, especially at early levels, and so you have to ration them very very carefully. Luckily, psywars have a lot of powers that are awesome for very little expenditure (see: Expansion and Bite of the Wolf), and can get access to others (see: Psionic Minor Creation).

Also, if you want melee supremacy, make sure you check out Metamorphosis. It's actually better than Polymorph in a number of ways (and is worse in others), but it's one of my favorite powers for optimization on a number of levels.

You might consider going kineticist/ghostbreaker 5/slayer 10. Ghostbreaker is from Hyperconscious, and is the only full BAB/full manifesting PrC ever made (and it's easy to get into, to boot). You can combine your fetish for psychokinesis with gishing that way, too. Check out the Control Body power, and consider what happens when you manifest it on yourself and have your psicrystal concentrate on it for you via Co-Opt Concentration or Solicit Psicrystal. Manifest buffs while your body smashes things using your Intelligence score instead of your Strength score and your ML rather than your BAB. Then consider things like Expanded Knowledge (Expansion) and consider things like EK (Metamorphosis) and a few other goodies off the Egoist list (Fission!).

You actually have tons of options here (so many I can't even really list them all).

Whatever you do, look in CPsi and take the Linked Power metapsionic feat. It's an absolute MUST for a psi-gish.

[Bloodgruve]

@ Rubik,

Hyperconcious is a great book. Ghostbreaker is a great PrC. I've looked at the PsiWar vs Ardent and I have a hard time giving up the full PP and Manifestation progression of the Ardent. With the Substitute Power ACF you can take any power and add it into a mantle if it fits, and there is not a restriction to my knowledge about PsiWar powers.

Form of Doom for example is a 6th lvl PsiWar power that costs 11 pp to manifest. For a PsiWar you need to wait until level 16 to have it. With an Ardent's ACF you can throw it into say the Madness and Corruption Mantle and take it at level 11 ;)

The two classes have the same BAB, Ardent lacks the weapon proficiencies and bonus feats but makes up for it in power points, mantles and powers known.

Its almost like the Ardent is an upgrade to the PsiWar when you use the Substitute Power ACF. Throw Ghostbreaker and Slayer ontop and its a party.

Blood~

P.S. Talk your DM into dropping the xp cost on Unleash Idbeast (Hyperconcious) and drop it into Madness and Corruption for a good time.

[Rubik]

@ Rubik,

Hyperconcious is a great book. Ghostbreaker is a great PrC. I've looked at the PsiWar vs Ardent and I have a hard time giving up the full PP and Manifestation progression of the Ardent. With the Substitute Power ACF you can take any power and add it into a mantle if it fits, and there is not a restriction to my knowledge about PsiWar powers.

Form of Doom for example is a 6th lvl PsiWar power that costs 11 pp to manifest. For a PsiWar you need to wait until level 16 to have it. With an Ardent's ACF you can throw it into say the Madness and Corruption Mantle and take it at level 11 ;)

The two classes have the same BAB, Ardent lacks the weapon proficiencies and bonus feats but makes up for it in power points, mantles and powers known.

Its almost like the Ardent is an upgrade to the PsiWar. Throw Ghostbreaker and Slayer ontop and its a party.

Blood~

P.S. Talk your DM into dropping the xp cost on Unleash Idbeast (Hyperconcious) and drop it into Madness and Corruption for a good time.Just FYI, psywars also have full manifester progression; they just have a slower power progression.

I like psywars because they have a ton of bonus feats, and psionics is extemely feat-intensive (as is anything martial characters want to do, so it's a double-win). That, and ardents are only (even vaguely) good if you can get the ACF for all those powers and put them on the first two mantles (otherwise, you PrC out and lose access to anything else; that, and mantles, as written, SUCK horribadly).

If you can do the ACF thing and don't want any of the myriad feats that are required for metapsionics and psicrystal use, then ardent is okay. Otherwise, psywar is much better (though again, that's assuming you know how to mitigate the issues with a small power point pool).

I generally play psions anyway, so it's not generally an issue for me.

[Bloodgruve]

I see what you're saying, I guess I wouldn't PrC out until after Dominant Ideal @ lvl10 which still gives you 4 mantles to work with. I just find the low Power Points of the PsiWar stifling. The lack of feats is rough too but its workable if you can take flaws.

May I ask what feats you would take as a PsiWar?

Blood~

[Psyren]

May I ask what feats you would take as a PsiWar?


Here you go (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8904.0)

[Rubik]

I see what you're saying, I guess I wouldn't PrC out until after Dominant Ideal @ lvl10 which still gives you 4 mantles to work with. I just find the low Power Points of the PsiWar stifling. The lack of feats is rough too but its workable if you can take flaws.

May I ask what feats you would take as a PsiWar?

Blood~That depends entirely on the build. I always take Psicrystal Affinity, though, which is awesome. I like taking EK for a number of other powers that help me conserve pp, such as Psionic Minor Creation in particular. I do enjoy using AoO trip builds for them, as Expansion makes that viable even at higher levels. Linked Power is incredibly useful for any buffer (as you can Link any buff power to a swift action power and use the action economy to your advantage).

I had one ghost build that took the Illithid Grapple feats so the monsters I possessed exploded into tentacles, but that's a lot of absolutely wasted feats to get them.

But really, it depends entirely on what I want to do with the build.