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Sunken Valley
2012-01-23, 06:51 AM
Dear Tsukiko, although evil she had a good heart. Her love for the unliving was something that we would always remember her by. Which makes it sadder that her death was so soon and so ironic. Rest in peace Tsukiko, unlike your children.

zimmerwald1915
2012-01-23, 07:01 AM
Question: what happens to the wights, ghasts, and such that were under her control but weren't in range of Redcloak's Command (including, unless it was off-panel for three strips, Isamu's corpse)? Do they go rampaging and have to be stopped? If so, how many hobgoblins die before they are?

deworde
2012-01-23, 07:03 AM
Let us remember her, not as a delusional sociopath with some form of abandonment/betrayal issues and a tendency towards narcissism, but as someone who loved, and who felt she was worthy of love.

deworde
2012-01-23, 07:07 AM
Question: what happens to the wights, ghasts, and such that were under her control but weren't in range of Redcloak's Command (including, unless it was off-panel for three strips, Isamu's corpse)? Do they go rampaging and have to be stopped? If so, how many hobgoblins die before they are?

Excuse me, this is a solemn... actually that's a good point... ah.

RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!

Sunken Valley
2012-01-23, 07:09 AM
Question: what happens to the wights, ghasts, and such that were under her control but weren't in range of Redcloak's Command (including, unless it was off-panel for three strips, Isamu's corpse)? Do they go rampaging and have to be stopped? If so, how many hobgoblins die before they are?

Isamu's corpse is long dead, killed by Belkar. I'm sure Redcloak can control the undead.

Cizak
2012-01-23, 07:22 AM
Isamu's corpse is long dead, killed by Belkar.

He got better (worse?). (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html)

zimmerwald1915
2012-01-23, 07:28 AM
I'm sure Redcloak can control the undead.
But he cannot get to where[ver] they are immediately. If they split up he cannot deal with them all at once. He has to spend time controlling and destroying each one, and the ones they spawn. No doubt he and his corps of clerics can deal with them in time, but there will be casualties. Now, Redcloak has no problem causing goblinoid death in a far more direct manner than this. It's even in service of The Plan (insofar as keeping Xykon from killing him serves The Plan). But further goblinoid death, possibly on quite a large scale, is a direct and predictable consequence of Redcloak's killing Tsukiko, and their deaths are not less important than hers.

The Succubus
2012-01-23, 07:33 AM
And so we offer a moment of solemn reflection for the Super-Sized Impotence Special.

veti
2012-01-23, 07:34 AM
But further goblinoid death, possibly on quite a large scale, is a direct and predictable consequence of Redcloak's killing Tsukiko, and their deaths are not less important than hers.

Err... you're thinking in Good. Redcloak is thinking in Plan, and Evil Plan at that.

In his terms - yes, the deaths of some random hobgoblins are very much less important than Tsukiko's. He'd be willing to sacrifice thousands - possibly even the whole of Gobbotopia - if that was the price of preserving The Plan.

zimmerwald1915
2012-01-23, 07:35 AM
Err... you're thinking in Good. Redcloak is thinking in Plan, and Evil Plan at that.
I was thinking in "moralizing forumite". A completely different alignment. :smallbiggrin:

Golden Ladybug
2012-01-23, 08:27 AM
Tsukiko might not have been the most stable of people; nor was she the most sensible. But, that doesn't mean she deserved to be devoured by those Wights, which seems like a really sucky way to die.

The living seem to have a high quantity of jerks and horrible people; hopefully Tsukiko finds herself proven right in that the dead are relatively nicer.

R.I.P you crazy Necromancer...

zimmerwald1915
2012-01-23, 09:01 AM
The living seem to have a high quantity of jerks and horrible people; hopefully Tsukiko finds herself proven right in that the dead are relatively nicer.
Might depend on where she ends up. The damned might not exactly be the best people to disabuse her of her delusions. If the destination for evil clerics of the Twelve Gods is somewhere else, she might meet someone relatively nice, but it's doubtful.

ObadiahtheSlim
2012-01-23, 09:10 AM
My views in song form. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHJoj9IqeKg)

Mr. Snuggles
2012-01-23, 09:35 AM
Tsukiko is a foolish altruist.

A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream, the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown, but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."

Flame of Anor
2012-01-23, 09:42 AM
WOOOOOOOOOOOOYEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!

*runs through funeral in a Hawaiian shirt and party hat, throwing confetti*

turbo164
2012-01-23, 10:40 AM
Might depend on where she ends up. The damned might not exactly be the best people to disabuse her of her delusions. If the destination for evil clerics of the Twelve Gods is somewhere else, she might meet someone relatively nice, but it's doubtful.

The IFCC seem rather nice, and might be interested in knowing what she just learned :)

WickedWizard17
2012-01-23, 11:15 AM
The IFCC seem rather nice, and might be interested in knowing what she just learned :)

. . . I think they would be VERY interested . . .

Anyway: (sung to the tune of "O buddy Roy" aka "O Danny Boy")

O crazy Kiku, the wights, the wights came calling,
From hand to hand, your life is being sucked away,
And though some find ourselves a'cheering,
'Tis you, 'tis you who died disgustingly today.

You won't come back for Raise Dead no one will cast,
You're lucky you weren't zombified instead, you little fool,
Those wights will eat you pretty darn fast,
O crazy Kiku, O crazy Kiku, you were just a tool.

And since no one cares they swallowed you down,
As a character this was your very last day,
So sorry girl, that no one watched your death with a frown,
Except maybe at it happening in such a gross way.

In such a gross way with little grace,
Because your own undead will eat you until you die,
Your body will be gone with barely a trace,
O crazy Kiku, O crazy Kiku, in peace you probably won't lie.

raymundo
2012-01-23, 11:16 AM
Ahh.. at least our beloved Redcloak is granted a moment of immediate pwnage against his wroingdoeress.

So satisfying, reading about an unsympathetic, fictional character being devoured by the living dead.

NerfTW
2012-01-23, 11:48 AM
No. No. Please do not let this become a thing every time a character in the strip dies.

This is worse than the "fan club" threads.

Michaeler
2012-01-23, 11:55 AM
Tsukiko died because she thought she was a Mary Sue.

t209
2012-01-23, 12:25 PM
Wow! That's stuck up necro lover is dead. I hope her corpse is dried up like Jerkey!

olthar
2012-01-23, 12:32 PM
Question: what happens to the wights, ghasts, and such that were under her control but weren't in range of Redcloak's Command (including, unless it was off-panel for three strips, Isamu's corpse)? Do they go rampaging and have to be stopped? If so, how many hobgoblins die before they are?

They already have more than they can control. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0300.html)

King of Nowhere
2012-01-23, 12:39 PM
how ironic that she, who completely misunderstood undead, died for completely misunderstanding redcloak.


Here lies tsukiko.
It's a wonder she had enough wisdom to cast clerical spells.

Narren
2012-01-23, 12:54 PM
Tsukiko might not have been the most stable of people; nor was she the most sensible. But, that doesn't mean she deserved to be devoured by those Wights, which seems like a really sucky way to die.

The living seem to have a high quantity of jerks and horrible people; hopefully Tsukiko finds herself proven right in that the dead are relatively nicer.

R.I.P you crazy Necromancer...

Ehh...if there's a list of people that deserve to be devoured by wights, she's probably on it.

And I don't think the living are any worse than the undead. The only sentient undead I can think of in this comic is Xykon. He may be goofy and fun, but he causes more wanton destruction and heartbreak than any other character in this comic.

ThePhantasm
2012-01-23, 01:09 PM
Good riddance.

Lost Demiurge
2012-01-23, 01:40 PM
Ah, she's gone. Good, good.

Really now. Confronting Red-Cloak with exposure, and a situation where he was going to die and see his plans undone? GLOATING? Tch, that never ends well.

Suicide by evil high priest. Such is death...

AutomatedTeller
2012-01-23, 01:57 PM
well, I don't think she was killed by being eaten. They drained her, then they ate her.

vegetalss4
2012-01-23, 02:07 PM
Tsukiko is a foolish altruist.

A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream, the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown, but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."

A noble in distress seek out a wise hermit for his advice.
"Oh wise elder, the king is dead and his youngest have taken the throne while the eldest have come to me for support, but I do not know whether I should aid him, deny him or even betray him. Please help me."

"Sit down and listen and I will tell you a parable that should make things clear"
The noble does so and the wise man begins
"A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream..."
"Wait" the noble interupts "I already know this story and it cannot help me"
"Do you want my advice or not?" the monk asks
"I do"
"Then listen patiently.
The scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back, but the frog has his doubts" the old man continues "How can I know that you won't sting me if I do that?. Why because I would drown if I did that, the scorpion answers"

Again the noble stands quickly "This story have been told to me a million times, but I really cannot see its relevance."

The old man merely looks at him, until he sits down again.
"The frog accepted this and set out to carry the scorpion across but in midstream, the scorpion stings the frog. As the frog feels the onset of the poison and starts to sink, it has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

"Because little frog" the scorpion answers "I can swim"
At these words the Noble smiles thanks the old man and leave his mind now sure on his course of action.

Kobold-Bard
2012-01-23, 02:15 PM
I like Theurges, I like Necromancers. Therefore Tsukiko was awesome. Deluded to a frightening degree, and an arrogant lunatic to be sure, but awesome nontheless.

But let us not remember her as she was in her final moments; insane and chewed on by Wights. No, let us remember her at her best; in sleepwear with a Xykon doll:

Pic by Elagune
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt310/Kobold-Bard/tsukiko3.png

derfenrirwolv
2012-01-23, 02:27 PM
She was an interesting character, and will be missed.

Pass the gravy.

pendell
2012-01-23, 03:06 PM
Friends, this is the funeral of Tsukiko, so I shall observe the rule of De mortuis nil nisi bonum, to the extent I can.

Let me first review her life ..

We first meet her in prison (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0420.html).

She betrays Azure city and joins Xykon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html).

She meets Wrong-eye, who tries to kill her twice (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0457.html) .

She complains to Xykon, and is promptly laughed off (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0465.html)

Suppressing insurgents as commander of Black Squadron (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0513.html)

Hanging with Xykon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0541.html).

Entertaining Xykon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0548.html)

Helping Xykon beat down Darth V (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html)

studying the ritual (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html)

Salvaging the dead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0708.html).

Her demise (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0828.html).

This reminds me a little of something I heard about .. a little dog nipping and nipping at a big dog, who ignores the little one until the big dog finally snaps, at which point the little dog is lunch.

Tsukiko, the best I can say for you is that you were sadly misguided.

You chose to give your love to things that were wholly incapable of love.

You loved that which cannot love in return. And you were destroyed by the object of your affections.

You wanted to be evil. But you never really were cut out to be evil. You didn't understand it, as you didn't understand the undead. You turned from people like O-chul to walk with people like Xykon, from those who could forgive to those who allow no mistakes at all. And you made a mistake.

I truly wish I could hope that you rest in peace, Tsukiko. But before you can do that, the shades of Isamu, Thanh, the guards on the wall, the hobgoblins you animated and turned into soulless abominations, the hobgoblin you murdered in Wrong-eye's office, all stand at the gates of the land of the dead to greet you. You must settle with them first. And after that, the Evil afterlives are no picnic.

The most hope I can offer ... is that whatever OOTS god looks after fools and small children also takes pity on you.

May you receive as much mercy as you can ... which probably means as much mercy as you gave to others.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Bad Hair Day
2012-01-23, 03:07 PM
I thought I'd stop by and sign the guest register at her funeral...

She was a wonderful foil.

Psyren
2012-01-23, 03:48 PM
WOOOOOOOOOOOOYEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!

*runs through funeral in a Hawaiian shirt and party hat, throwing confetti*

The only appropriate response.

As for "Tsukiko in the afterlife," what would the point be of that? Like Miko, she's already had her worst possible punishment, i.e. learning just how wrong she's been about her core philosophy her entire life. What could a legion of fiends do to top that? Letting her stew with the knowledge is all the punishment they need.

Kobold-Bard
2012-01-23, 03:53 PM
The only appropriate response.

As for "Tsukiko in the afterlife," what would the point be of that? Like Miko, she's already had her worst possible punishment, i.e. learning just how wrong she's been about her core philosophy her entire life. What could a legion of fiends do to top that? Letting her stew with the knowledge is all the punishment they need.

My theory is she'll team up with Belkar when he dies & ends up on the lower Planes. Along with all the other dead evil characters........
.......
.......
.......
.......Because it'd be awesome, that's why!! :smallannoyed:

Emulgator
2012-01-23, 03:56 PM
She died as she lived.
Delusional.

Ridureyu
2012-01-23, 03:57 PM
Scruffy gonna die the way he lived.

*turns page*

Psyren
2012-01-23, 03:57 PM
My theory is she'll team up with Belkar when he dies & ends up on the lower Planes. Along with all the other dead evil characters........
.......
.......
.......
.......Because it'd be awesome, that's why!! :smallannoyed:

Whereas I've long thought that Belkar won't end up in an evil afterlife in the end, simply because that would be the most ironic punishment for him.

But that's another thread :smalltongue:

Scarlet Knight
2012-01-23, 04:12 PM
:belkar: "I've been asked to say a few words about Tsukiko. Most people don't realize that Tsukiko brought joy to the men of Azure city... well while she was flying around in that short skirt at least..."

JohnnyTurbo
2012-01-23, 04:42 PM
Seriously: she deserved to die. Her way of thinking of the undead as children, and even thinking that she could reason with them labels her as a complete idiot.

Steward
2012-01-23, 04:50 PM
Might depend on where she ends up. The damned might not exactly be the best people to disabuse her of her delusions. If the destination for evil clerics of the Twelve Gods is somewhere else, she might meet someone relatively nice, but it's doubtful.

I think her mistake was assuming that the dead were more capable of love than the living.

Imagine the situation reversed -- Redcloak surrounded by hobgoblins confronting Tsukiko. If she bewitched them to attack him, there's a chance that they could have broken free and ignored the command if he pleaded with them. Wights couldn't do that, since they're barely sentient.


It's a wonder she had enough wisdom to cast clerical spells.

That was a rookie move. I kind of expected her to have some kind of defensive spell set up, but it appears that her entire strategy was, "I bet that really powerful guy I've been emotionally abusing for weeks probably won't try to stop me from trying to get him fired or killed."

hamishspence
2012-01-23, 04:57 PM
Wights couldn't do that, since they're barely sentient.

Int 11, Wis 13, Cha 15 (MM). Are they really much less sentient than, say, Xykon?

Easily controllable, yes.

deworde
2012-01-23, 05:06 PM
Seriously: she deserved to die. Her way of thinking of the undead as children, and even thinking that she could reason with them labels her as a complete idiot.

Deserved to die, sure (at least by D&D standards).
But no-one deserves to be betrayed by those they love.

maxon
2012-01-23, 05:12 PM
Tsukiko might not have been the most stable of people; nor was she the most sensible. But, that doesn't mean she deserved to be devoured by those Wights, which seems like a really sucky way to die.
No, no, that's vampires. Completely different type of undead.

Analytica
2012-01-23, 05:29 PM
Let us remember her, not as a delusional sociopath with some form of abandonment/betrayal issues and a tendency towards narcissism, but as someone who loved, and who felt she was worthy of love.

Can I sig this?

I for one will miss her. :smallfrown:

AkaiNeko
2012-01-23, 06:37 PM
First off: That was a pretty epic send-off, from a writer-y standpoint, and a pretty sad one, from most any standpoint.

Second: I'm not sure she truly deserved it, though obviously that's arguable. Tsukiko truly believed that undead were people, and much better ones than teh living. Think: she essentially viewed teh living teh same way teh living view teh undead. Or teh same way most races view goblins, just to point out a parallel with RC. Her view off everything was horribly off, yes, but this was a terrible way to go.

So rest in peace, if you can, Tsukiko; and if you can't, here's to that o-so-small possibility that you can find redemption in teh future.

deworde
2012-01-23, 06:41 PM
Can I sig this?

I for one will miss her. :smallfrown:

Sure! I wasn't a massive fan, but no-one deserved that death.

veti
2012-01-23, 08:47 PM
#830 was one of the more gruesome strips, shocking and horrific. I have to give props to the Giant for not pulling his punches with 'Suki. She could have spent her last breath realising she was wrong and renouncing her life philosophy - but that would have been cheap.


Second: I'm not sure she truly deserved it, though obviously that's arguable.

'Deserve' is one of those poorly-defined words that it's almost impossible to get a consensus on. I agree that it was a horrible way to go - but seriously, if she didn't deserve punishment, who does?

Steward
2012-01-23, 08:51 PM
Int 11, Wis 13, Cha 15 (MM). Are they really much less sentient than, say, Xykon?

Easily controllable, yes.

Ooh, I got them confused with zombies. Still, most undead lack the basic free will of even the weakest living creature. They almost seem to have no choice but to obey the strongest cleric around them, something that can't really be said for hobgoblins, who at least could have fought off Tsukiko's mind control.

I was thinking back to that scene where Tsukiko dominated a paladin and told him to attack Haley, and Haley was able to break the control by getting Belkar to impersonate Lord Shojo and put the paladin on a collision course with him. The paladin was able to snap out of it because of his individual personality, but undead don't seem to have that -- they're almost like robots. They obeyed Tsukiko because she made them, not because they liked her or were even capable of liking her. Redcloak's relationship with his hobgoblins, or Shojo's relationship with his paladins, or Roy's relationship with his Order is on a completely different level.

Psyren
2012-01-23, 08:58 PM
No, no, that's vampires. Completely different type of undead.

Hurr hurr :smalltongue:


She could have spent her last breath realising she was wrong and renouncing her life philosophy - but that would have been cheap.

She did realize it; her last question makes it clear that their lack of love finally dawned on her.

There was no need to renounce it at that point though - in a world where the living suck and now the undead suck too, she'd have no reason to want to be a part of it anyway.

Ridureyu
2012-01-23, 08:58 PM
Yeah, undead as defined here don't have rights (I guess vampires and liches are another story, but eh). Think of them as robots made of grandma bits.

Ghill
2012-01-23, 09:27 PM
Goodbye Tsukiko, you were 8th on my personal OoTS Character Hate List. You were fairly flat, static in your ways, but you were still a character of interest who allowed for excellent narrative flow in the actions of Xykon and Redcloak during their stay in Azure Emerald Gobbotopia.

Also, unless this changed in 4E or I missed something incredibly important in the Core Rule Books, undead do not go berserk when their master dies. They just keep doing what they were doing, and in this case they would be sitting in their bedwooms waiting for mummie. So, there will be no Hobgoblin casualties because of this.

KingofMadCows
2012-01-23, 10:48 PM
Be happy for her, she has achieved peace. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMZi217RUUY)

Winter Light
2012-01-23, 10:57 PM
I kinda liked Tsukiko. Not in a, "I think she was a great person," way, but she was a fun villain, in her own quirky, deluded, terrible-person fashion.

But seriously, though, how do you have a Wis low enough to think you can get away with what she did (threatening Redcloak so boldly) as a Mystic Theurge? She picked the entirely wrong dump stat.

That was a joke.

CoffeeIncluded
2012-01-23, 11:10 PM
Personally I can't help but wonder what kind of abandonment issues she had. Mix that with a paraphilia and you can definitely see how she could become completely delusional. If somebody had loved her, then things might have gone differently.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-01-23, 11:11 PM
Also, unless this changed in 4E or I missed something incredibly important in the Core Rule Books, undead do not go berserk when their master dies. They just keep doing what they were doing, and in this case they would be sitting in their bedwooms waiting for mummie. So, there will be no Hobgoblin casualties because of this.

Wights are sentient undead who feed on the living. The ones that just stand around are zombies and skeletons.

TSED
2012-01-23, 11:23 PM
Wights are sentient undead who feed on the living. The ones that just stand around are zombies and skeletons.

To elaborate: there's now an undefined number of wights (who crave the flesh of mortals) with nothing controlling them.

In a city of hobgoblins (demonstrably mortal).

Wightocalypse: possible. Probable? Nope, it wouldn't really add anything. But it's theoretically possible.

OrzhvoPatriarch
2012-01-23, 11:27 PM
A very fitting and emotional death for the character, very well done.

On a less serious note, it now looks like the title of strip 794 will never come to pass.

t209
2012-01-23, 11:30 PM
A very fitting and emotional death for the character, very well done.

On a less serious note, it now looks like the title of strip 794 will never come to pass.

Why didn't they show Tsukiko's death (no x eyes or turned into beef jerkey)?

EnragedFilia
2012-01-23, 11:41 PM
But let us not remember her as she was in her final moments; insane and chewed on by Wights. No, let us remember her at her best; in sleepwear with a Xykon doll:

Your definition of best varies considerably from mine. Although, as Belkar has once again noted, she's given us a lot to think about. And sure, being eaten by wights is pretty bad and all, but just like old Evisceratus, at least she died before it happened.

It is important to remember, now, that while she seems to have been more or less sincere in her numerous delusions regarding undead, she never actually did anything for them (as far as we know) that cost or even inconvenienced her in any way. Her "children" were nothing more than slaves, and she never seemed to see anything wrong with that arrangement. Sore wa ai ja nai (http://youtu.be/oc6SyvpbfOY?t=24s). Thus, in terms of the old frog and scorpion metaphor, she's more like a cute little wasp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_cockroach_wasp), who simply stings the scorpion and then tells herself that it's her friend now (there may be better examples of insect puppeteers, but this was the first one I found).

Ridureyu
2012-01-23, 11:44 PM
Personally I can't help but wonder what kind of abandonment issues she had. Mix that with a paraphilia and you can definitely see how she could become completely delusional. If somebody had loved her, then things might have gone differently.

She reminds me of Haley's goth phase if she never grew out of it.

SavageWombat
2012-01-23, 11:59 PM
But there were other sides to Tsukiko as well.

Let it never be forgotten that she was a hot asian chick who flew around town in a miniskirt.

Truly we will never know her as well as we would like.

Ridureyu
2012-01-24, 12:01 AM
Considering the nature of her obsession with undead, I don't want to think about that.

EnragedFilia
2012-01-24, 12:09 AM
But there were other sides to Tsukiko as well.

Let it never be forgotten that she was a hot asian chick who flew around town in a miniskirt.

Truly we will never know her as well as we would like.

Not without access to some sort of homebrewed version of Soul Bind that grants mental control over an ethereal projection of the subject. Which, as has been pointed out, will be both angry and vengeful and retain all spellcasting powers. Of course, that would be wrong. Have I mentioned that while I am not a high level necromancer, I play one on the internet?

This has given me a lot to think about.

SavageWombat
2012-01-24, 12:36 AM
Not without access to some sort of homebrewed version of Soul Bind that grants mental control over an ethereal projection of the subject. Which, as has been pointed out, will be both angry and vengeful and retain all spellcasting powers. Of course, that would be wrong. Have I mentioned that while I am not a high level necromancer, I play one on the internet?

This has given me a lot to think about.

I am interested and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

ti'esar
2012-01-24, 12:39 AM
To be honest, I'm ultimately more inclined to mourn the demise of Thanh's shoes, and that of the wight that stole them.

Arraxis
2012-01-24, 01:11 AM
Tsukiko, you may have been an antagonist, and evil, and a little bit on the dumb side, and some might argue that this last one led to your death. And it did. But you were entertaining, and you had a kind and loving heart towards a group of ex-people who suffer discrimination because they are no longer alive, and tend to make other people less alive, too.

But skeletons, zombies, wights and liches need love too, and you were there to provide. RIP Tsukiko, because after being eaten and burned, you won't be able to rise... unless you became a ghost. Maybe then.

Flame of Anor
2012-01-24, 01:14 AM
That was a joke.

Did anyone else read that in EDI's voice? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZTBaUME-n4)


Why didn't they show Tsukiko's death (no x eyes or turned into beef jerkey)?

Because she's being torn to shreds and devoured...this comic doesn't really tend to show such things.


To be honest, I'm ultimately more inclined to mourn the demise of Thanh's shoes, and that of the wight that stole them.

Or, you know, Thanh himself.

Ridureyu
2012-01-24, 01:15 AM
Because she's being torn to shreds and devoured...this comic doesn't really tend to show such things.




Rather I'd say because showing her fade and X-out her eyes wouldn't have the same dramatic effect as just hearing her, and then... silence. I mean, the comic showed half a mangled Miko, the Implosion spell, and all sorts of other stuff, but in this case it simply looked cooler to not show everything.

ti'esar
2012-01-24, 01:17 AM
But there were other sides to Tsukiko as well.

Let it never be forgotten that she was a hot asian chick who flew around town in a miniskirt.

Truly we will never know her as well as we would like.

Wait, what's an "Asia"? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html)


Or, you know, Thanh himself.

He died three strips ago - by the standards of this current arc, that's old news.

EnragedFilia
2012-01-24, 01:30 AM
Wait, what's an "Asia"? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html)

Apparently it's the name of a scribebeast (http://books.google.com/books?id=aFfGSi0hmbUC&pg=PA319&lpg=PA319&dq=beowulf%27s+children+%22asia%22&source=bl&ots=e1OgqnSJg8&sig=8E0SX24t2uIXKT9kqlaKkr9WtJY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=z08eT-KnFqqpiAKGtYXHCw&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false).

Fates
2012-01-24, 01:33 AM
Pardon me when I say that I am, at present, dancing on the Tsukiko's nonexistant grave. My least favorite bad-guy, killed by my favorite. What could be better? :redcloak:

Beowulf DW
2012-01-24, 01:53 AM
Ladies and gentlemen, we are gathered here today to remember a necrophiliac bitch who was delusional to the point of making a certain deceased fallen paladin look utterly sane. She betrayed her own people, her own form of life, and in the end got exactly what was coming to her.

Amen.

Ridureyu
2012-01-24, 01:59 AM
Ladies and gentlemen, we are gathered here today to remember a necrophiliac bitch who was delusional to the point of making a certain deceased fallen paladin look utterly sane. She betrayed her own people, her own form of life, and in the end got exactly what was coming to her.

Amen.


But now that she's dead, we've gotta venerate her as the greatest saint who ever lived.


It's Candle in the Wind time!

EnragedFilia
2012-01-24, 02:03 AM
But now that she's dead, we've gotta venerate her as the greatest saint who ever lived.

Are you sure we're reading the same thread?

Ridureyu
2012-01-24, 02:05 AM
Not the thread, just general policy. Look at what happens when anybody dies, even if he just got indicted for eating babies while surfing on the corpses of Jewish pandas.

ti'esar
2012-01-24, 02:30 AM
Well, that's just societal convention. Or do you mean when someone dies in the strip? I'd say the evidence doesn't support that. Look at the elf commander from a few strips back - his demise was met with anything but unanimous mourning.

And as for Tsukiko, I did pity her, but I'm not joking when I say I feel worse about the end of Thanh's shoes.

Flame of Anor
2012-01-24, 02:31 AM
Not the thread, just general policy. Look at what happens when anybody dies, even if he just got indicted for eating babies while surfing on the corpses of Jewish pandas.

Well, Team Peregrine got well and truly lambasted when they died.

wzeller
2012-01-24, 02:58 AM
I'm very surprised that everybody seems in agreement that she's dead.

The last few weeks have been full of reversals. I'm not quite sure how one could be pulled off here, but if there's one thing I've learned from OotS, it's to never assume somebody's dead if you don't see the X's in the eyes.

As has been pointed out, there have been some graphic deaths recently, and putting this one (mostly) off-panel is not only good taste, but also good storytelling. But that's the very reason that it is also a perfect time to throw in an "almost death" off-panel.

Granted, she's probably dead. But I'm just very surprised to not see the forum erupting in giant wars over the question. Everybody has assumed she's dinner.

It just seems so out-of-character for this forum.

Sunken Valley
2012-01-24, 03:05 AM
I will say that create undead (and presumably Tsukiko's amazing Wight-making spell) does not give the caster control over the undead. So those Wight's were following Tsukiko of their own free will.

Also, Tsukiko does both. Julia goes both ways. Goodnight everybody!

Edit: What Alignment do you think she was?

ti'esar
2012-01-24, 03:25 AM
I'm very surprised that everybody seems in agreement that she's dead.

The last few weeks have been full of reversals. I'm not quite sure how one could be pulled off here, but if there's one thing I've learned from OotS, it's to never assume somebody's dead if you don't see the X's in the eyes.

As has been pointed out, there have been some graphic deaths recently, and putting this one (mostly) off-panel is not only good taste, but also good storytelling. But that's the very reason that it is also a perfect time to throw in an "almost death" off-panel.

Granted, she's probably dead. But I'm just very surprised to not see the forum erupting in giant wars over the question. Everybody has assumed she's dinner.

It just seems so out-of-character for this forum.

Well, it's because she didn't really die off-panel. Not in the same sense as, say, Thog. We didn't see it happen, but we watched Redcloak as he did. It's a lot more conclusive then your standard off-panel death.

Flame of Anor
2012-01-24, 03:28 AM
I'm very surprised that everybody seems in agreement that she's dead.

*crunch*

*crunch crunch crunch*

Of course, maybe she doesn't mind losing 16 levels and having her head eaten. Who knows?

Gettles
2012-01-24, 03:33 AM
I shall play the most appropriate hymn for the moment. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v04H7_fFC90&feature=related)

So goes another reminder that this comic was at one time comedic. We take comfort in her memory in what looks to be a long mire of drama and bleakness in the upcoming arc.

May Redcloak's goals all fall short, may his country crumble, may his people be scattered, may his god be devoured by a pink scribble, and may his stupid cape be mistaken for toilet paper.

EnragedFilia
2012-01-24, 03:36 AM
Granted, she's probably dead. But I'm just very surprised to not see the forum erupting in giant wars over the question. Everybody has assumed she's dinner.

It just seems so out-of-character for this forum.

Given her own *ahem* predilections, I believe it may be more in-character for us to be dreaming up ways she might return as an undead of some sort. After all, if there's one thing these forums like more than arguing about plot points, it's arguing about our own not-quite-baseless speculations! And in this case, we actually have something that resembles evidence (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0163.html) that a caster killed maliciously and/or violently can spontaneously return as a ghost.

And beyond that, there are any number of hair-brained possibilities involving:
The IFCC, who may be inclined to offer her a deal of sorts.
Xykon himself, who may decide that a powerful and expendable spellcasting undead minion would be very useful in the near future.
Leeky Windstaff, for that matter, last seen in the vicinity of Cliffport some months ago, who has since found employ with the nation of Reptilia and been sent to investigate the troubling rumors regarding a certain team of Elven agents and what significance their activities may have for the western continent's delicate balance of power (to be honest, I don't know whether dying from wight level drain makes a corpse ineligible for the reincarnate spell, but that's not the point).

faustin
2012-01-24, 04:35 AM
Given her own *ahem* predilections, I believe it may be more in-character for us to be dreaming up ways she might return as an undead of some sort. After all, if there's one thing these forums like more than arguing about plot points, it's arguing about our own not-quite-baseless speculations! And in this case, we actually have something that resembles evidence that a caster killed maliciously and/or violently can spontaneously return as a ghost.

And beyond that, there are any number of hair-brained possibilities involving:
The IFCC, who may be inclined to offer her a deal of sorts.
Xykon himself, who may decide that a powerful and expendable spellcasting undead minion would be very useful in the near future.
Leeky Windstaff, for that matter, last seen in the vicinity of Cliffport some months ago, who has since found employ with the nation of Reptilia and been sent to investigate the troubling rumors regarding a certain team of Elven agents and what significance their activities may have for the western continent's delicate balance of power (to be honest, I don't know whether dying from wight level drain makes a corpse ineligible for the reincarnate spell, but that's not the point)


If the Giant din´t allowed Miko return as undead (and she was a far hotter more important character), I don´t see why Tsukiko would get that opportunity.
She was nothing but a psycho, deluded necrophile necromancer who largely overrated her power, usefulness and protection from her boss, and RC was more than happy in correct her the hard way.

eilandesq
2012-01-24, 07:48 AM
It's a completely unique funeral, too--an undead Matryoshka doll Viking funeral. I'm sure once the pointing and laughing about poetic justice stops, it'll be quite the solemn occasion. ]:-)

Burner28
2012-01-24, 07:51 AM
I will say that create undead (and presumably Tsukiko's amazing Wight-making spell) does not give the caster control over the undead. So those Wight's were following Tsukiko of their own free will.

Also, Tsukiko does both. Julia goes both ways. Goodnight everybody!

Edit: What Alignment do you think she was?

Neutral Evil.

Psyren
2012-01-24, 09:08 AM
I'm very surprised that everybody seems in agreement that she's dead.

Let's see... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SortingAlgorithmOfDeadness)

Death by Irony - check
Overkill - check
Anyone Can Die - check
Chunky Salsa - check
Never died before - check
C-List Character - check

Yeah, she's done.

pendell
2012-01-24, 09:35 AM
Realistically, Tsukiko's story purpose -- now revealed -- was to act as the clueless character to whom everything could be explained, which also clues in the audience. Wrong-eye has no reason to explain to Xykon or to the other hobgoblins. If the audience is ever to know the true nature of the relationship between Wrong-eye and Xykon, someone else has to either discover it or have it explained to them. Cue our very own Nancy Drew in a black miniskirt. Alas, she may have been smart enough to figure out something was wrong but not smart enough A) not to get caught in Wrong-Eye's study B) not to hide what she knew.

She could have learned from Haley. Haley would have got all this information and not been caught. But then, Haley's a rogue.

People pick on Haley for not telling the truth to anyone. But on a job like that, or living in Greysky city with a thief for a father, it was a necessary survival skill. A skill Tsukiko did not have.

And Wrong-eye did the Bond Villain routine RIGHT. Instead of launching into the monologue and then dropping the protagonist into the evil death trap, he simply killed her outright. And he stood right there to make sure it was done.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Flame of Anor
2012-01-24, 12:15 PM
And Wrong-eye did the Bond Villain routine RIGHT. Instead of launching into the monologue and then dropping the protagonist into the evil death trap, he simply killed her outright. And he stood right there to make sure it was done.

Even better--he monologued while she was in the death trap.

B.I.T.T.
2012-01-24, 01:34 PM
I would like to say a few words about the dearly departed.

Out. of. her. mind.

Azure's City's cutest evil nutcase will be missed.

SynissterSyster
2012-01-24, 05:51 PM
Few quick things. For one I will miss Tsukiko as she is very much like a character I have designed (necrophiliac necromancer). So her death is very close to me but it has shown me how right Redcloak is. Undead are tools, like humans, that can be used in a various means of ways. What will happen to our favorite necro is up in the air. I do believe she is dead in this strip but not gone.

Here are some possibilties:

1. A ghost since she probably died with extreme emotion.

2. IFCC uses her to help or hinder Sabine

3. Like Thog who died on screen it is a tad ambiguious on finality so some odd team up of forgotten/abandoned allies could be possible.

That is about all I have for wild speculation. Thanks for the comics!

Flame of Anor
2012-01-25, 03:00 AM
I would like to say a few words about the dearly departed.

Out. of. her. mind.

Azure's City's cutest evil nutcase will be missed.

Best epitaph so far. Though she won't really be missed by me... :smallwink:

Skavensrule
2012-01-25, 05:24 AM
I like Theurges, I like Necromancers. Therefore Tsukiko was awesome. Deluded to a frightening degree, and an arrogant lunatic to be sure, but awesome nontheless.

But let us not remember her as she was in her final moments; insane and chewed on by Wights. No, let us remember her at her best; in sleepwear with a Xykon doll

That is how I shall remember her, although Belkar's memory of her is pretty good too.

ThePhantasm
2012-01-25, 06:36 AM
3. Like Thog who died on screen it is a tad ambiguious on finality so some odd team up of forgotten/abandoned allies could be possible.

Sorry... how exactly is Tsukiko's death "a tad ambiguous"? It seemed pretty clear cut to me.

Dragon Star
2012-01-26, 03:20 AM
Let's see... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SortingAlgorithmOfDeadness)

Death by Irony - check
Overkill - check
Anyone Can Die - check
Chunky Salsa - check
Never died before - check
C-List Character - check

Yeah, she's done.


How dare you link to TvTropes?!? There I was, minding my own business, mourning a psychopathic bitch hot Asian chick, and you forcibly steal 4.5 hours of my life! You disgust me.

AJ11
2012-01-26, 04:56 AM
I will say that create undead (and presumably Tsukiko's amazing Wight-making spell) does not give the caster control over the undead. So those Wight's were following Tsukiko of their own free will.

Also, Tsukiko does both. Julia goes both ways. Goodnight everybody!

Edit: What Alignment do you think she was?

Wights are 4HD. Kiko's at least a level 3 Cleric. With a bit of Charisma and a feat (Heighten Turning, IIRC), she can Rebuke them and gain permanent control over them.

That said, I don't think there is a spell that allows her to create a Wight, although given that you can create a Morgh (a monster of far higher CR than a Wight) using the Create Undead spell, there is no reason not to allow Wights using that spell.

JohnnyTurbo
2012-01-26, 05:35 AM
Few quick things. For one I will miss Tsukiko as she is very much like a character I have designed (necrophiliac necromancer). So her death is very close to me but it has shown me how right Redcloak is. Undead are tools, like humans, that can be used in a various means of ways. What will happen to our favorite necro is up in the air. I do believe she is dead in this strip but not gone.

Here are some possibilties:

1. A ghost since she probably died with extreme emotion.

2. IFCC uses her to help or hinder Sabine

3. Like Thog who died on screen it is a tad ambiguious on finality so some odd team up of forgotten/abandoned allies could be possible.

That is about all I have for wild speculation. Thanks for the comics!

If there's some dead necromancer who deserves to come back that's Haerta Bloodsoak. Tsukiko is just a mid-level and quite stupid MT who found death because of her own wrong thoughts. Haerta is an epic level necromancer who was imprisoned in the depths of a fiendish plane and her soul now roams free in the world.

Kobold-Bard
2012-01-26, 05:38 AM
Wights are 4HD. Kiko's at least a level 3 Cleric. With a bit of Charisma and a feat (Heighten Turning, IIRC), she can Rebuke them and gain permanent control over them.

That said, I don't think there is a spell that allows her to create a Wight, although given that you can create a Morgh (a monster of far higher CR than a Wight) using the Create Undead spell, there is no reason not to allow Wights using that spell.

Based on the chart in the Animate Dead epic spell seed Wiggts come right between Ghast and Wraith. They're most likely just kept out of player hands because of the inevitable Wightocalypse that would occur if PCs were allowed creatures that could create infinite spawn.

Kish
2012-01-26, 06:31 AM
That said, I don't think there is a spell that allows her to create a Wight,
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11664910&postcount=11

Bastian Weaver
2012-01-26, 06:49 AM
Here lies Tsukiko.
She wouldn't be any good as a girlfriend, too.
Now let's party!

AJ11
2012-01-26, 07:19 AM
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11664910&postcount=11

Rich doesn't care. Yay!

Let me let you in on a secret: I don't either.

The fella I quoted made a referrence to Create Undead, and I just replied that it is possible. The main part of the post is that it is possible for Kiko to control Wights. So, what's your point?

Kish
2012-01-26, 06:22 PM
So, what's your point?
That there is a spell that allows Tsukiko to create wights.

AJ11
2012-01-27, 02:25 AM
That there is a spell that allows Tsukiko to create wights.
{Scrubbed}

0datdude0
2012-01-27, 11:18 AM
I read that last comic 3 times and couldnt shake the notion that that is how bella swan should have died :P

Undead can't love you back people :smallbiggrin:

rip goth emo neco girl

pendell
2012-01-28, 07:17 PM
Say rather, *wights* can't love you back. A vampire or other self-willed undead might be able to.

ETA: Strahd in D&D land was capable of love, if I recall correctly. And what with the familicide of the dragons being evil and the sympathy for the goblins this strip has been dropping the anvil mighty hard that "Always Evil" doesn't mean there are no exceptions ever. It's a little late in the game to take it back and say "the only good undead is a dead ... erm, destroyed undead."

After all, people say the same thing of black dragons and goblins.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

Kish
2012-01-28, 07:44 PM
ETA: Strahd in D&D land was capable of love, if I recall correctly.
Say, rather, Strahd was capable of a sick, selfish obsession, which caused him to murder the fiance of the woman he "loved" and to pursue her until she killed herself to get away from him.

hamishspence
2012-01-29, 06:41 AM
Jander Sunstar, however, was a decidedly better person despite being a vampire (at least in the short stories, I've not read Vampire of the Mists yet) than Strahd.

Some D&D undead are more capable of alignment change than others.

Kish
2012-01-29, 08:47 AM
Oh, I think what Redcloak said was in large part hypocrisy. He wants to believe that Xykon can't be anything but a tool because that's one of the ideas he can hide behind to avoid the fact that he, Redcloak, is Xykon's slave. "Is the axe the woodcutter's master?" as an equally deluded Lloyd Alexander character once said.

zimmerwald1915
2012-01-29, 01:39 PM
And what with the familicide of the dragons being evil and the sympathy for the goblins this strip has been dropping the anvil mighty hard that "Always Evil" doesn't mean there are no exceptions ever. It's a little late in the game to take it back and say "the only good undead is a dead ... erm, destroyed undead."
The lesson to be learned isn't "racism and genocide are wrong because the dehumanizing [sic.] generalization that lets you justify them contains excpetions." The lesson is "racism and genocide are wrong regardless of the morality of your victims."

Adoendithas
2012-01-29, 03:47 PM
Requiescas in pace.

ti'esar
2012-01-29, 06:21 PM
Jander Sunstar, however, was a decidedly better person despite being a vampire (at least in the short stories, I've not read Vampire of the Mists yet) than Strahd.

Some D&D undead are more capable of alignment change than others.

And while on this subject, I'd add that Xykon is about the worst possible individual you can use to argue that undead are monsters, nothing more or less. The man was a soulless fiend while still alive, so his actions while a lich cannot be used as an indictment of intelligent undead in general.

Aldrakan
2012-01-29, 07:46 PM
Agreed, Redcloak "controls" Xykon the exact same way he would a mortal epic sorcerer, through lies and persuasion, and the control he boasts of is extremely weak. Him being undead is irrelevant.
SOD spoilers He thought he'd gained power over Xykon through having his phylactery, but that failed utterly.
Redcloak may have convinced himself in the meantime that he's still in charge, but it's pretty arrogant to think you're the boss because you're tricking someone into doing what you want, especially given the number of things Xykon does that displease him, and the recent signs that Xykon no longer trusts him.

Vahir
2012-01-29, 08:54 PM
And the worst part of this is

:redcloak: : I killed Tsukiko.
:xykon: : Who?
:redcloak: The human you hired. You had her investigate the ritual.
:xykon: : Never heard of her.

PhantomDennis
2012-01-29, 08:57 PM
My views in song form. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHJoj9IqeKg)

Here I was expecting a filk. :smallbiggrin:

Anyway, it is fitting that she did not long survive the people she betrayed and hunted. Her not being able to blab about what she knows about MitD is a bonus.

I do hope Redcloak gets taken down a few pegs shortly.

Psyren
2012-01-30, 12:04 AM
Say rather, *wights* can't love you back. A vampire or other self-willed undead might be able to.

Wights (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/wight.htm) are intelligent and self-willed. Note the Int score. The only potential advantage Vampires have in the free will department is that (a) they're templates rather than static creatures, and so have a chance of being strong enough to resist the control of a cleric on par with Redcloak's stature (depending on their "stock") and (b) they also have turn resistance.

If you're powerful enough to overcome these attributes (and Redcloak is really damned powerful) then they would be no more capable of love/pity than any Wight would be, and the result would end the same for Bella Tsukiko.

RagingKrikkit
2012-01-30, 01:30 AM
Tsukiko is a foolish altruist.

A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream, the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown, but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."


Completely off-topic, but I believe that I have found myself a fellow trekkie.

faustin
2012-01-30, 07:48 AM
If you're powerful enough to overcome these attributes (and Redcloak is really damned powerful) then they would be no more capable of love/pity than any Wight would be, and the result would end the same for Bella Tsukiko.

That´s not an argument, since almost every sentient creature can be controled under enchantments spells. We have plenty of examples, like Nale´suggestion on Elan and Belkar or Tsukiko´s Dominate Person on Thanh?

Morty
2012-01-30, 08:17 AM
Right before the end, Tsukiko behaved not unlike a spoiled child of a rich, overindulgent father, bullying those around her because of the belief that Daddy will bail her out of trouble and noone will want to cross him. Unfortunately for her, she was in way over her head. It didn't help that she believed herself to be the protagonist of a version of Twilight starring a Lich despite all the evidence to the contrary.
That said, I very much doubt Xykon will disregard her death. If he was at all likely to do so, Redcloak would have killed Tsukiko long ago. Even aside from the ritual, Tsukiko was still a reasonably powerful spellcasting minion who was unquestioningly loyal to Xykon, at the time he started to seriously question the competence and loyalty of Redcloak and his goblinoids.

Psyren
2012-01-30, 08:42 AM
Completely off-topic, but I believe that I have found myself a fellow trekkie.

That fable (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog) is WAY older than Star Trek.


That´s not an argument, since almost every sentient creature can be controled under enchantments spells. We have plenty of examples, like Nale´suggestion on Elan and Belkar or Tsukiko´s Dominate Person on Thanh?

No, it's not the same thing at all. Domination is much weaker than clerical Command - a dominated subject gets a will save, including additional will saves if you force it to act against its nature; it's behavioral range becomes limited, and you can't even force it to take self-destructive actions.

Commanded undead have none of these limitations. You can force a commanded vampire not to drink blood until he wastes away, or throw himself in front of a dragon for you. No matter how strong-willed the undead is, all that matters is the cleric's own strength, and once commanded the undead can never break free on his own.

Xzenu
2012-01-31, 08:54 PM
You wanted to be evil. But you never really were cut out to be evil. You didn't understand it, as you didn't understand the undead.

This.
While Evil in "DnD cosmology negative energy" sense, it is doubtful whether Tsukiko was mentally competent to be good or evil in any moral sense.

Personally, I don't believe that capital-E Evil exists in the real world. People do bad things because they are dysfunctional in one way or another. On a psychological level, villains like Redcloak and Tsukiko do exist in the real world, while characters like Xykon exist only in comic books.

Gem_Knight
2012-04-26, 02:11 AM
I liked the character- sure she was misguided- but bah, that's not always a bad thing. Characters need to have something quirky about them to hold your interests, and she had that in spades.

Plus she really was kinda cute- and not just the whole goth-Asian- more from the whole: I'm a free spirited bitch who does what I want angle

and best of all- still a better love story than Twilight :smallwink:

Killer Angel
2012-04-26, 02:46 AM
Only 'cause the thread is on tsukiko, doesn't mean it should be brought back from the dead (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1)... :smalltongue:



and best of all- still a better love story than Twilight :smallwink:

I can concede that... and BTW, your avatar seems well suited for the argument. :smallbiggrin:

Forikroder
2012-04-26, 10:28 AM
i feel worse for that final weight, think of how much he had to eat!

he essentially had to eat both the other weights and Tsukiko, just imagine how bloated he must ahve felt its amazing he managed to drag himself to the fireplace

kpenguin
2012-04-26, 02:54 PM
The Modguin: Let's put this thread to rest.