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Orannis
2012-01-23, 01:44 PM
I have to confess that I have never understood how it is that wizards in 3.5 are able to plan for every contingency. Granted I do understand their potential to learn every spell and prepare them every day to suit the situations they think they might encounter but I have read some people saying that a wizard will use divination spells so that they can discover what they will fight and tailor their daily spells accordingly. I KNOW I am missing something here but I can't figure out what divination(s) would give that much information about the unknown dangers of the day. Scry and Die makes sense for known bad guys but as for everything else you might fight I don't know how one would acquire such knowledge.
Basically I am trying to understand the preparedness part of the Batman wizard. Is there some spell other than Scry that provides specific knowledge? Contact other plane was my go to guess but its rather limited. I am making a world for a game I am about to run and was thinking of some sort of dystopian realm where Wizards and clerics constantly monitored the future and present for any signs of unrest or danger so the divination used would be roughly similar to a Batman wizard.
Thanks in advance playground!

horseboy
2012-01-23, 02:06 PM
At low level it's more genre savviness, at higher levels it's playing 20 questions with the universe.

Helldog
2012-01-23, 02:08 PM
Divinations and metagaming.

Morty
2012-01-23, 02:09 PM
Plenty of spells are universal enough to work against most anything. There are few situations where Fly or Slow won't work, for instance.

Tyndmyr
2012-01-23, 02:18 PM
I have to confess that I have never understood how it is that wizards in 3.5 are able to plan for every contingency.

Low op answer:You don't. You prepare a wide spectrum of generally applicable spells. You carry scrolls for the rarely used stuff. Almost everything happens to be in that domain.

Medium op answer: You use contact other plane and advanced statistics to divine the exact nature and weakness of everything you encounter long in advance.

High op answer: chaos shuffle around your feats into temporary configurations for spell preparation and abuse certain combinations to prepare arbitrarily large numbers of every permutation of every spell and metamagics. Laugh manically.

Slipperychicken
2012-01-23, 02:21 PM
Player-skill: Using clues from the campaign so far to judge what kind of situation you can expect to encounter the next day. Also, having a feel for your DM's style helps with this. This is often fluffed as the Wizard's massive Int score.

Divinations: Commune, Contact other plane, and the like let you play 20 questions to figure out what you'll be doing tomorrow, and thus what you need to prepare.

Uncanny Forethought/Alacritious Cogitation: These feats give you a little spontaneity, so you can have the right spell for the occasion, even when you're surprised.

Yora
2012-01-23, 02:21 PM
I asked that same thing some time ago, and although it got lots of replies, nobody could answer that.

It's a lie. Wizards can not always be prepared for every eventuality.

The Glyphstone
2012-01-23, 02:27 PM
I asked that same thing some time ago, and although it got lots of replies, nobody could answer that.

It's a lie. Wizards can not always be prepared for every eventuality.

So, the posters above you...?

A wizard cannot be prepared for every eventuality simultaneously, because he doesn't have infinite spell slots. He can (theoretically*), however, be prepared for every eventuality he will actually encounter, because he can see into the future or collect-call people who can.

*Theoretically because of the inverse proportionality of skill and jerkiness - the people intelligent and op-skilled enough to actually pull this off in a game are also decent and experienced enough to not do it, because it ruins games.

Greenish
2012-01-23, 02:28 PM
I asked that same thing some time ago, and although it got lots of replies, nobody could answer that.Spontaneous Divination & Versatile Spellcaster? :smalltongue:

Blisstake
2012-01-23, 02:29 PM
There are some solutions

1. Prepare spells useful in a variety of situations. Summons are good, since you don't have to decide the monster(s) you are going to summon ahead of time. Dispel Magic/Disjunction is useful against anything that could conceivably be a threat to you at higher levels.

2. Use divination spells to narrow down what types of enemies you will be fighting. This may cause the DM to throw things at you when done excessively, so watch out.

3. Pun Pun. You have infinite spells, so prepare everything.

4. Use logical reasoning to think about what you should prepare. Most days you should have a good idea about what you're getting youself into. While certain surprises may come up, you can often guess which types of enemies you'll mostly be going against (ex. humanoids, outsiders, undead).

Mystify
2012-01-23, 02:31 PM
Also, wizards can leave spell slots unprepared, and then fill them later. This does nothing to help them in combat, but many out of combat circumstance will allow them time to prepare new spells to deal with the circumstance. And scouting, either mundane or magical, can let you know what is coming up with time to prep for it.

Doc Roc
2012-01-23, 02:32 PM
So, the posters above you...?

A wizard cannot be prepared for every eventuality simultaneously, because he doesn't have infinite spell slots. He can (theoretically*), however, be prepared for every eventuality he will actually encounter, because he can see into the future or collect-call people who can.

*Theoretically because of the inverse proportionality of skill and jerkiness - the people intelligent and op-skilled enough to actually pull this off in a game are also decent and experienced enough to not do it, because it ruins games.

Actually, three or four builds with arbitrary or ridiculous numbers of spell slots do come to mind... :/

Eldan
2012-01-23, 02:35 PM
The answer, really, is universally applicable spells. How many situations are there where Shapechange isn't helpful? The answer is, of course, almost none. Same for Time Stop, Gate, Polymorph, Shades and its bastard children and a few others. Thencome those that are rarely wrong like Forcecage and other general combat omnitools.

kardar233
2012-01-23, 02:38 PM
Uncanny Forethought helps a lot, especially if you use INT-boosting tricks like PaO->Sarrukh.

Tyndmyr
2012-01-23, 02:39 PM
I asked that same thing some time ago, and although it got lots of replies, nobody could answer that.

It's a lie. Wizards can not always be prepared for every eventuality.
So, the posters above you...?

A wizard cannot be prepared for every eventuality simultaneously, because he doesn't have infinite spell slots.

That depends on the wizard. Honestly, in even a medium op game, the sheer quantity of spells I have on tap tends to rapidly approach "all bases covered" at around levels 10-12. At that point, WBL is big enough that ridiculous quantities of wands and scrolls are easy to manage, and you have options for mult spontaneous toys. That said, I do know at least two* ways to get to arbitrarily large numbers of spells, so yes, some wizards can in fact prepare for them all simul.

*gah, five. Forgot Pun pun, tainted scholar and illithid savant.

The Glyphstone
2012-01-23, 02:43 PM
Actually, three or four builds with arbitrary or ridiculous numbers of spell slots do come to mind... :/

TO doesn't count.:smallyuk: And if it does, that's why I covered my bases with the sliding scale of skill vs. decency - it's no fun for players or DM if the wizard just auto-wins everything forever by means of spamming divinations, so people who can typically don't, unless your entire group is playing at that op level.

Saph
2012-01-23, 02:45 PM
They don't. You can take educated guesses based on reconnaissance and utility, but your guesses will never be 100% accurate. (If they are, it's a good bet the adventure is so easy that you didn't need to spend that much time on it in the first place.)

ahenobarbi
2012-01-23, 02:46 PM
The answer, really, is universally applicable spells. How many situations are there where Shapechange isn't helpful? The answer is, of course, almost none. Same for Time Stop, Gate, Polymorph, Shades and its bastard children and a few others. Thencome those that are rarely wrong like Forcecage and other general combat omnitools.

And then you think why not play Sorcerer? I'd choose universal spells as spells know and it wold be the same, only better (because I could choose how much of each universal spell I need on the run).

But... they get just 3 spells known from levles 6-9... too little (even with PrC and racial substitution levels that give you some extra spells know, that's just too little highest level spells) :smallfurious:

Person_Man
2012-01-23, 02:53 PM
Many Wizard spells are dynamic, and can thus resolve almost any encounter regardless of whether or not the Wizard is specifically prepared for them.

For example, if a Wizard encounters a monster that is somehow immune or resistant to all of the spells he currently has prepared, he can still Teleport away and return with better spells, or Summon something that suites his needs, or Polymorph himself or an ally into something that can defeat his enemy, or cast Solid Fog to reduce his enemy's movement to 5 feet and spam his enemy with spells until he finds something that works.

Coidzor
2012-01-23, 02:54 PM
High op answer: chaos shuffle around your feats into temporary configurations for spell preparation and abuse certain combinations to prepare arbitrarily large numbers of every permutation of every spell and metamagics. Laugh manically.

And if you get bored, do this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6483459#post6483459).

Hirax
2012-01-23, 02:54 PM
A venerable gray elf that point bought to 18 int would have 23 int, 28 from leveling, 36 if they persist necrotic empowerment, and 41 if they bought a +5 inherent bonus. With an int mod of 15 and uncanny forethought, that's 15 spontaneously cast spells that can be anything per day.

That int mod of 15 also allows you to automatically succeed on your int check while using contact other plane to contact greater deities. If your int mod is only 13, not to worry, the mechanus mind spell boosts int based checks by 2. Once you've rattled as much info as you'd like from greater deities, cast vision, multiple times in a round if possible, because then you can use an amulet of second chances to get your exp back. An amulet of second chances undoes the round you just did as though it never happened, but you (and anyone else present) specifically retain your memory of what happened in the round. Supplement your visions with further contact other plane sessions if desired, and then even more visions or legend lore, if desired.

jaybird
2012-01-23, 03:15 PM
At low-mid levels it's more a factor of how creative you can get. Example: I'm playing a Summoner in Pathfinder with a Large Eidolon right now, and I picked up Reduce Person to get him to fit into places Large couldn't. Then we got cornered in a building and had to duck out in a hurry. 2 Reduce Person spells later, the size-equivalent of the rest of the party was small enough to fit under my Dimension Door cap. Exit stage right.

Yora
2012-01-23, 03:48 PM
Spontaneous Divination & Versatile Spellcaster? :smalltongue:

But enemy casters would do so as well, which leads us to a situation kind of like this:

http://www.ecnmag.com/uploadedImages/ECN/News/2011/03/Cat_toast.jpg

You create a time vortex as all wizards try to adopt tactics based on predictions about tactics that were based on predictions about tactics.

Chronos
2012-01-23, 03:48 PM
Another large category of versatile spells nobody has mentioned yet are buffs for your party. If the baddies are immune to everything you've got, then they're probably not immune to what the fighter and rogue have got (if they are, then your DM hates you and just wants to rocks-fall you). So make them better at what they do.

Coidzor
2012-01-23, 03:59 PM
But enemy casters would do so as well, which leads us to a situation kind of like this:

http://www.ecnmag.com/uploadedImages/ECN/News/2011/03/Cat_toast.jpg

You create a time vortex as all wizards try to adopt tactics based on predictions about tactics that were based on predictions about tactics.

Or you spawn a whole bunch of off-shoot realities and just go with the ultimate result of the DM's choosing.

Yora
2012-01-23, 04:07 PM
But actually, you can't tell the players the future, because you don't know what the future will be.
You can expect what they want to do, but once you told them what they would expect in return, they will do something else.

If anyone thinks he can show the step by step process how a 10th level wizard, with anything he could buy with WBL (which includes scrolls copied in the spellbook, or fees for copying from other spellbooks), starts the day to be perfectly prepared for anything, I'd like to see it laod out.

avr
2012-01-23, 04:17 PM
I think you're still missing the leave some slots open/spend 15 min preparing spells later trick.

& sorry, but I can't be bothered making up a 10th level wizard including spell selection for an arbitrary campaign.

Zale
2012-01-23, 04:22 PM
Magic, I suppose.

I am not privy to inner workings of the optimized mind.

Orannis
2012-01-23, 04:50 PM
Wow...That was fast. So what I am seeing is mostly a) use spontaneous open slots via alacratious cogitation or spend 15 minutes to RESPOND to a threat that is right in front of you b) Get generally useful spells that cover almost any situation REGARDLESS of forethought. c) Metagame/guess or d) COP/Commune and (I love this expression) "Play twenty questions with the universe"
Of these possible (and I might've missed one or two) only d) actually covers preparing spells in advance.
a) I am familiar with these methods (very useful methods too) but as noted you are only responding to something, not preparing against it.
b) Again, you are preparing these spells blind simply because they are almost always useful. That doesn't seem like foresight to me so much as no brainer (would I like to fly above my enemies or dispel their magic? Nah......too easy)
c) Granted, with good intuition or logic metagaming can allow you to prepare against things that you have a sneaking suspicion you might be fighting. However this is you, the real you, foretelling the future outside of the game not your PC learning this from the cosmos/gods/demons/Santa
d) COP is a 5th level spell as is Commune. The table for COP give an 88 percent chance of a true answer for contacting a greater deity, a 2 percent chance of an "I don't know", a 1 percent chance of a random answer, and a 9 percent chance for an outright lie. That is the best plane to contact so far as getting a reliably true answer is concerned. COP allows 1 question per 2 CL. My issue here is that you have to spend an ungodly number of divination spells (with no verification of truth, 9-10 percent chance of an outright lie) from 5th level to be effective. To cover even most obvious things you'd have to cast it multiple times and never be sure that the crucial question you asked wouldn't turn out to be the one time it was a lie. ("Will I encounter an enemy with antimagic today? NOPE!")
So assuming I have not completely missed the point (an ever present danger) what I am hearing is that their is no really EFFICIENT means of foresight and so Wizards mainly rely on their flexibility (a la open slots, alacratious cogitation, etc) not their knowledge of what they will be fighting.

bloodtide
2012-01-23, 04:51 PM
I have to confess that I have never understood how it is that wizards in 3.5 are able to plan for every contingency.

This has always been a more 'theoretical' type of thing, then something that happens in the game. Everyone just likes to talk about it as if it might happen.


I have read some people saying that a wizard will use divination spells so that they can discover what they will fight and tailor their daily spells accordingly. I KNOW I am missing something here but I can't figure out what divination(s) would give that much information about the unknown dangers of the day.

This is a bit of a myth. But it is based off the 'standard adventure game idea' or even a novel or movie plot. If you take a standard game as set out in the rules, a DM has an adventure path and plot all set, either a created on or a published adventure. For example the adventure ''The lost city of Tarngoiki'' can be 100 pages, but it only covers the path/plot of that single adventure. And nothing can really happen much outside of that path and plot, as the adventure is the ''whole game reality''. That is simply the way a standard D&D game works, it has a beginning, a middle and an end. Once the characters have explored the whole lost city the adventure is over. You can have twists and turns and such...but nothing unexpected(as after all the DM knows what will happen.) So for example, some demons won't 'suddenly' show up in encounter #10 and surprise the DM, as the DM would know that they were there or have a chance of coming.

As a game, D&D does not have a random plot. The DM does not roll a 1d100 every hour and consult a 'random plot path matrix'. Nothing like that exists in the game. The DM is in full control of the adventure, and nothing will suddenly make the DM do or change anything. So when a spellcaster asks ''what will happen on page 25''(basically) the DM will turn to page 25 of the adventure and tell them.

So if you metagame that your spellcaster is 'playing a character' in the 'Lost City' adventure, it's easy to see how you can use divination spells to 'read the pages of the adventure'.

Hirax
2012-01-23, 04:53 PM
You have notably left out uncanny forethought. It's in Exemplars of Evil.

Orannis
2012-01-23, 05:01 PM
You have notably left out uncanny forethought. It's in Exemplars of Evil.

Of course, how could I forget that? :smallsigh: My memory must be slipping. Still this only continues my point, that it's all about the flexibility and not about the foresight.

"This has always been a more 'theoretical' type of thing, then something that happens in the game. Everyone just likes to talk about it as if it might happen."

This...This is an answer I can totally accept.

"As a game, D&D does not have a random plot. The DM does not roll a 1d100 every hour and consult a 'random plot path matrix'. Nothing like that exists in the game. The DM is in full control of the adventure, and nothing will suddenly make the DM do or change anything. So when a spellcaster asks ''what will happen on page 25''(basically) the DM will turn to page 25 of the adventure and tell them.

So if you metagame that your spellcaster is 'playing a character' in the 'Lost City' adventure, it's easy to see how you can use divination spells to 'read the pages of the adventure'."

See I have no experience of that sort of thing, the DMs I have had (and I follow in this tradition) have made tons of different NPCs and such ahead of time (including plot items, monsters and cities) and so when ever the group would veer off the rails (and boy did we) it wouldn't cause any problems. I know I never actively planned for such things but when they happened I sorta did have a "random monster matrix" and a "random plot matrix" ready.

Tyndmyr
2012-01-23, 05:02 PM
But actually, you can't tell the players the future, because you don't know what the future will be.
You can expect what they want to do, but once you told them what they would expect in return, they will do something else.

If anyone thinks he can show the step by step process how a 10th level wizard, with anything he could buy with WBL (which includes scrolls copied in the spellbook, or fees for copying from other spellbooks), starts the day to be perfectly prepared for anything, I'd like to see it laod out.

Since I'm lazy, I'm taking the easy way out.

1. Pay high level caster for a wish. This is the only cost. Wish for a spellbook with all spells in it. Feel free to cycle this through efreets, etc if you want to get abusive with it.
2. Find a comfy chair. This is important, you'll be here a while.
3. Make sure you have as feats sanctum spell, arcane thesis(mnemonic enhancer), repeat spell, and some +0 metamagics. Twin spell is an acceptable substitute for repeat, but repeat works even if your DM is a stickler for stacking, and takes VERY unfavorable, if probably not RAW/RAI interpretations.
4. Cast mnemonic enhancer, target mnemonic enhancer on both rounds.
5. Begin to mumble something about "exponential casters" as your # of spells being cast doubles every round.
6. Memorize everything.

For extra credit, utilize other spell level adjustments to memorize spells of all levels.

Hirax
2012-01-23, 05:03 PM
Of course, how could I forget that? :smallsigh: My memory must be slipping. Still this only continues my point, that it's all about the flexibility and not about the foresight.


I don't really see your point. Functionally they're the same thing in this case, you have the spell you need ready to go. Though if it does matter to you, this is why I mentioned vision+amulet of second chances to supplement contact other plane.

kardar233
2012-01-23, 05:05 PM
I mentioned Uncanny Forethought. INT-boosting isn't incredibly difficult (I like permanent PaO into Sarrukh, gets you INT30 right away) so that's ten spontaneous spells from your entire list. If, with the Wizard's spell list, you can't deal with an encounter to the degree where you can let the saps other party members mop up in two spells (that's five encounters a day, folks!) then you're not the goddamn Batman. That's not even counting your actual prepared slots.

bloodtide
2012-01-23, 05:07 PM
See I have no experience of that sort of thing, the DMs I have had (and I follow in this tradition) have made tons of different NPCs and such ahead of time (including plot items, monsters and cities) and so when ever the group would veer off the rails (and boy did we) it wouldn't cause any problems. I know I never actively planned for such things but when they happened I sorta did have a "random monster matrix" and a "random plot matrix" ready.

I DM much the same way and make a lot of scrying useless.


But a normal game is the DM and five players going on the ''Lost City'' adventure. So, the whole game world, IS that adventure. If a player uses a divination spell to find out what is in room #12 and encounter #5, then they do. The DM has too tell the player what is written on that page for that encounter for that room.

Orannis
2012-01-23, 05:15 PM
I don't really see your point. Functionally they're the same thing in this case, you have the spell you need ready to go.

Granted, and I agree about the utility of it being the same. I suppose my question comes to this; If you are a wizard, who prepares spells, and your whole schtick is that you prepare spells everyday and are at least partially bound to the spells you prepare then naturally knowing WHAT to prepare would be a huge advantage. If you start taking uncanny foresight, alacratious cogitation, or leaving spell slots open then, while you have the same effect as knowing what is coming (better in fact) you have essentially done so by becoming a more versatile sorcerer. I do understand and accept that these are all legitimate means of making a wizard hugely powerful but they aren't doing it by PREPARING for everything. The difference is in the name Batman wizard. Batman plans every encounter and brings exactly what he needs to beat the villain in any situation. That is the way I had thought wizards, at least high op ones, worked. What it seems like now is that they are more "Green Lantern" Wizards. They don't have anything physical prepared but can call up almost anything.

Hirax
2012-01-23, 05:21 PM
What it seems like now is that they are more "Green Lantern" Wizards. They don't have anything physical prepared but can call up almost anything.

I like it. :smallbiggrin:

Orannis
2012-01-23, 05:23 PM
I like it. :smallbiggrin:

:smallsmile:Thanks, always liked him better anyway.

MukkTB
2012-01-23, 05:31 PM
The DM has too tell the player what is written on that page for that encounter for that room.

Or he could make up a cryptic riddle that only makes sense afterwards. Or he could house rule some garbage to make it difficult. Or he could get pissed at you for trying to 'break' the game. Or he could give you impartial information.

The power of RAW divination doesn't really translate into real play totally intact. Relying on it to work given a random DM is stretching it.



That said you prepare generic spells that fit multiple situations. You carry scrolls of spells designed for specific situations. You take abilities that let you have some free semi-spontaneous slots. You leave unprepared slots for problems that are tricky but not time sensitive. Batman doesn't see the future. Batman carries all the tools he might possibly need.

Greenish
2012-01-23, 05:53 PM
Uncanny Foresight is exactly what Batman does: if something he didn't prepare for pops up, well, he was prepared for it!

It's even in the name. :smallcool:

FMArthur
2012-01-23, 06:11 PM
Here's a build framework (going by that 10th level benchmark) that can do practically anything at any moment and still spends resources on mere insurance instead of actual power so that he is both flexible and pretty failproof. You don't really need to set up a complete specific spell selection to see it:
High Intelligence: Character starts as a gray elf with 20 intelligence. He bumps it up to 22 naturally by 8th level. Has a +4 item at around 9th level (assuming he can only spend up to half his WBL on one item) for 26 and a modifier of +8. Pretty normal.
Unstoppable Unassailable Spell Access: This wizard adds 5 spells to his spellbook every time he levels up. That's 10 of each spell level if he wants, which is pretty nice. Also, his "spellbook" is in his head and he can just spend money for special incense to learn other spells, like buying a scroll. He doesn't really need help getting (or keeping) his spells and he doesn't spend as much money to learn all the relevant spells of each level. Steps:
He opts for being a generalist wizard, and takes the first Elven Generalist racial substitution level. This gives a bonus highest-level slot and one extra spell learned at each level, and doesn't put any schools out of reach.
Our wizard takes the Eidetic Spellcaster ACF in exchange for his familiar and Scribe Scroll so that he doesn't need a spellbook.
He takes the Collegiate Wizard feat at first level for 3 more first level spells and 2 more spells at every level increase.
Uncanny Forethought: Somewhere along the way, this wizard picks up Uncanny Forethought after Spell Mastery. Every day he can set aside spell slots to spontaneously cast his Int bonus (8) in spells from his naturally big, independent library of spells that he keeps in his mind. He does this at -2 caster level (so no highest-level slots), which can be mitigated in a number of ways. Uncanny Forethought benefits from Elven Generalists for the gray elf Int score, for the spells known and for the greater scope of a generalist's selection with no barred schools.


This wizard is down just three feats and can pretty much respond to anything given the action to do so, and gives no ****s about what the conditions of his campaign world are. He can wake up naked in a prison cell at full power.

Bonus round:
Robbing the Dirt Store: Take the Domain Wizard variant. It's not really involved in the above combination so I didn't include it, but just being a generalist makes this 100% free. It costs you absolutely nothing. Yeah. You have a free spell slot of every level for a particular spell. The Antimagic and Conjuration domains provide a relevant and easily applicable spell at each of their levels.
We Will Never Know What Happened Here Today: Alongside this you can take a Fatespinner dip (for ranks in Profession: Gambler) for Sleight of Hand in-class to conceal your spellcasting (a skill use from Races of Stone) and take Invisible Spell, a +0 metamagic that makes any spell invisible. Again, it's a minimal investment with a massive payoff, in this case being able to pretend you never ever cast any of the spells you use and pull shenanigans where enemies don't know how to respond to dangers they can't see or identify the source of. It's absurd.
Singular-Advancement Ultimate Magus Fixes UF's Drawback: With only Wizard levels, you can still qualify for Ultimate Magus and benefit from the class for nothing but its CL increases and for its bonus metamagic feats (which come at ECL 10 and 14, pretty much just like a Wizard's own). The caster level increases are an easy way to mitigate UF's drawback, enabling you to cast your highest level spells with it. (You could also argue that you get doubled-up Wizard progression, but that's dumb and not really the point here)

This type of character sacrifices practically nothing, repeatedly, and gains options and versatility that are basically unmatched in the whole game. Maybe he's not immortal. But he is damn well prepared.

Urpriest
2012-01-23, 06:18 PM
You can also get information the same way Batman does: detective work.

Suppose you aren't playing a linear adventure, but rather have a sandboxy world. (If it's linear, Contact Other Plane works). Your sandbox is broadly speaking built out of two things: places and people.

If you want to know about a place, Scrying, Prying Eyes, Analyze Dweomer, Find the Path, Legend Lore, etc. will tell you a lot, and your high Knowledge skills and justifiable metagame knowledge can get you the rest.

If you want to know about a person, Detect Thoughts, Detect Evil, True Seeing, Legend Lore, Analyze Dweomer etc. will tell you a lot about what they want, who they are, and what they're hiding. Again, Knowledge and metagame help here.

How do you know who/where to target? If you're in a sandbox instead of a linear adventure, you're proactive. Your enemies are your enemies because they stand in the way of your goals, so if you understand your goals it's pretty straightforward to predict your enemies.

There is a reason SWAT teams exist in real life: it's perfectly possible to gain enough information to be completely prepared for a situation by mundane means. Magic just ups the ante.

Esgath
2012-01-23, 06:27 PM
You can take 10 on a question from CoP, +6 int bonus is not that hard to get. Then ask your question. Your second question will be something along the line "was the answer to question 1 true?".

Yora
2012-01-23, 07:03 PM
d) COP is a 5th level spell as is Commune. The table for COP give an 88 percent chance of a true answer for contacting a greater deity, a 2 percent chance of an "I don't know", a 1 percent chance of a random answer, and a 9 percent chance for an outright lie.
If the answer isn't determined "I don't know" also falls under the 88% of true answer.

1. Pay high level caster for a wish. This is the only cost. Wish for a spellbook with all spells in it. Feel free to cycle this through efreets, etc if you want to get abusive with it.
2. Find a comfy chair. This is important, you'll be here a while.
3. Make sure you have as feats sanctum spell, arcane thesis(mnemonic enhancer), repeat spell, and some +0 metamagics. Twin spell is an acceptable substitute for repeat, but repeat works even if your DM is a stickler for stacking, and takes VERY unfavorable, if probably not RAW/RAI interpretations.
4. Cast mnemonic enhancer, target mnemonic enhancer on both rounds.
5. Begin to mumble something about "exponential casters" as your # of spells being cast doubles every round.
6. Memorize everything.
7. Drive to the hospital to get your forehead stiched up.

ericgrau
2012-01-23, 08:12 PM
d) COP is a 5th level spell as is Commune. The table for COP give an 88 percent chance of a true answer for contacting a greater deity, a 2 percent chance of an "I don't know", a 1 percent chance of a random answer, and a 9 percent chance for an outright lie. That is the best plane to contact so far as getting a reliably true answer is concerned. COP allows 1 question per 2 CL. My issue here is that you have to spend an ungodly number of divination spells (with no verification of truth, 9-10 percent chance of an outright lie) from 5th level to be effective. To cover even most obvious things you'd have to cast it multiple times and never be sure that the crucial question you asked wouldn't turn out to be the one time it was a lie. ("Will I encounter an enemy with antimagic today? NOPE!")
So assuming I have not completely missed the point (an ever present danger) what I am hearing is that their is no really EFFICIENT means of foresight and so Wizards mainly rely on their flexibility (a la open slots, alacratious cogitation, etc) not their knowledge of what they will be fighting.

Don't forget it's a DC 16 int check to contact a deity without borking yourself. You need an int of 40 to do that reliably, and when you fail after repeated retries you are royally hosed for an entire week.

Uncanny forethought seems to work, but it does limit you on high level spells. Most of all it took several replies to get to it and I don't see it in most builds. I mean, heck, the book it's in is meant for DMs. On top of that the standard answer "use divination spells" is not the same as "Uncanny forethought" and it doesn't seem to work very well. I mean CoP above is probably the best core option for going into the unknown and it's highly unreliable. Most other divinations require major knowledge beforehand. That tells me that most people don't tend to know how to be perfectly prepared so wizards often aren't ready in practice. But some people know how to do it with that one feat.

As crazy powerful as that feat is you can't get every PHB spell available in your spellbook until level 17 at the earliest, and you can't even get half of them until level 11. Even getting that much using the cheapest method (copying an NPC) takes all your money so you're unlikely to get even half that amount, as headbands of intellect and such are kinda nice to get instead. I'm not even including the non-PHB spells which have to be at least 10 times more. So it still has some limits and we're again left with a partial "Well, pick the spells most likely to be useful" situation. It's still crazy good (and it leaves you well prepared) to likely double or triple the spells you have ready, but you don't have everything.




Unstoppable Unassailable Spell Access: This wizard adds 5 spells to his spellbook every time he levels up.


2 spells. It's a flat 2 not int modifier unless you have some special ability I'm not noticing. Ah there it is

Rubik
2012-01-23, 08:31 PM
Don't forget it's a DC 16 int check to contact a deity without borking yourself. You need an int of 40 to do that reliably, and when you fail after repeated retries you are royally hosed for an entire week.Actually, you need a 22 Int to do that without fail, unless you're casting Contact Other Plane during battle.

Doc Roc
2012-01-23, 08:34 PM
If the answer isn't determined "I don't know" also falls under the 88% of true answer.

7. Drive to the hospital to get your forehead stiched up.

Getting I Don't Know just means you should switch to other divination methodologies.

As for the other, you asked, we answered, you hate our answers.

They're still answers.

NNescio
2012-01-23, 08:35 PM
Unstoppable Unassailable Spell Access: This wizard adds 5 spells to his spellbook every time he levels up. That's 10 of each spell level if he wants, which is pretty nice. Also, his "spellbook" is in his head and he can just spend money for special incense to learn other spells, like buying a scroll. He doesn't really need help getting (or keeping) his spells and he doesn't spend as much money to learn all the relevant spells of each level. Steps:
He opts for being a generalist wizard, and takes the first Elven Generalist racial substitution level. This gives a bonus highest-level slot and one extra spell learned at each level, and doesn't put any schools out of reach.
Our wizard takes the Eidetic Spellcaster ACF in exchange for his familiar and Scribe Scroll so that he doesn't need a spellbook.
He takes the Collegiate Wizard feat at first level for 3 more first level spells and 2 more spells at every level increase.



2 spells. It's a flat 2 not int modifier unless you have some special ability I'm not noticing.

FTFY. See the full quote.

ericgrau
2012-01-23, 08:35 PM
Actually, you need a 22 Int to do that without fail, unless you're casting Contact Other Plane during battle.
Checks that almost any wizard capable of casting the spell (level 9) will auto-pass seem to either be a waste of table space or not the intent of the spell rules, even if you could argue the ambiguity of the RAW there. Concentrating on a spell probably counts as "distracted".

Randomatic
2012-01-23, 08:39 PM
Here's a build framework (going by that 10th level benchmark) that can do practically anything at any moment and still spends resources on mere insurance instead of actual power so that he is both flexible and pretty failproof. You don't really need to set up a complete specific spell selection to see it:
High Intelligence: Character starts as a gray elf with 20 intelligence. He bumps it up to 22 naturally by 8th level. Has a +4 item at around 9th level (assuming he can only spend up to half his WBL on one item) for 26 and a modifier of +8. Pretty normal.
Unstoppable Unassailable Spell Access: This wizard adds 5 spells to his spellbook every time he levels up. That's 10 of each spell level if he wants, which is pretty nice. Also, his "spellbook" is in his head and he can just spend money for special incense to learn other spells, like buying a scroll. He doesn't really need help getting (or keeping) his spells and he doesn't spend as much money to learn all the relevant spells of each level. Steps:
He opts for being a generalist wizard, and takes the first Elven Generalist racial substitution level. This gives a bonus highest-level slot and one extra spell learned at each level, and doesn't put any schools out of reach.
Our wizard takes the Eidetic Spellcaster ACF in exchange for his familiar and Scribe Scroll so that he doesn't need a spellbook.
He takes the Collegiate Wizard feat at first level for 3 more first level spells and 2 more spells at every level increase.
Uncanny Forethought: Somewhere along the way, this wizard picks up Uncanny Forethought after Spell Mastery. Every day he can set aside spell slots to spontaneously cast his Int bonus (8) in spells from his naturally big, independent library of spells that he keeps in his mind. He does this at -2 caster level (so no highest-level slots), which can be mitigated in a number of ways. Uncanny Forethought benefits from Elven Generalists for the gray elf Int score, for the spells known and for the greater scope of a generalist's selection with no barred schools.


This wizard is down just three feats and can pretty much respond to anything given the action to do so, and gives no ****s about what the conditions of his campaign world are. He can wake up naked in a prison cell at full power.


Add in Versatile Spellcaster, that you qualify for with Uncanny Forethought, and you never need to prepare any spells again. It also removes the need for Eidetic Spellcaster, as you don't care about your spellbook after you've scribed a spell into it. Just grab an empty spellbook if you ever need to scribe a new spell so you know it.

Nizaris
2012-01-23, 08:41 PM
All else fails, Greater Teleport or Plane Shift away from the threat. Disjunction anything holding you in place. If you see an Incarnum guy and you don't go first, disappear and get the drop on them later. Really it's go general but have plenty of escape mechanisms and prepare for round two.

navar100
2012-01-23, 08:54 PM
They don't.

They can only do it in theoretical thought processes of potential given everything ever published exists in the game and is readily available. Given any obstacle it is possible to find a solution, but that's still only as a mental exercise. In actual play, no wizard player ever has every spell ever published available at an instant notice when they need it to account for every conceivable and inconceivable situation anyone anywhere cares to come up with.

Eisenfavl
2012-01-23, 08:55 PM
Scroll of genesis + planeshift.

Step 1: enter Combat
Step 2: Planeshift to personal demiplane
Step 3: Spend however long you want there, prepare your spells for the situation, and return to smite your foes.

Yora
2012-01-23, 08:57 PM
Actually, you need a 22 Int to do that without fail, unless you're casting Contact Other Plane during battle.
Doesn't "getting your brain zapped" count as being threatened?

Slipperychicken
2012-01-23, 08:59 PM
Couldn't you use Practiced Spellcaster to mitigate the -2 CL from Uncanny Forethought, allowing you to cast highest-level spells?

SiuiS
2012-01-23, 09:01 PM
One of the points that is always glossed over is that, often, a batman style wizard will retreat from any threat he cannot currently handle.

You'll hear "come back with bigger guns when they aren't ready" a lot. This ignores the pride factor in running away in the first place.

NNescio
2012-01-23, 09:01 PM
Doesn't "getting your brain zapped" count as being threatened?

Does "drowning" count as being threatened for Swim checks? Does "fall into doom" count as being threatened for Balance and Jump checks? Does "hit by nasty trap" count as being threatened for Disable Device and Search checks? ......

Orannis
2012-01-23, 09:16 PM
One of the points that is always glossed over is that, often, a batman style wizard will retreat from any threat he cannot currently handle.

You'll hear "come back with bigger guns when they aren't ready" a lot. This ignores the pride factor in running away in the first place.

Ok, I can see this. If you hit an unknown entity and run away and THEN use divination magic and such like to prepare that makes so much more sense then spending hours chatting with celestial beings about hypothetical battles that may or may not occur. It seems that what every one means by preparation is not preparing to fight badguy "x" using knowledge gained ahead of time through divination. Instead it seems like it means preparing your character to handle essentially anything. The way you do this seems to always involve taking a specific number of feats already mentioned that turn your prepared caster into (basically) an unlimited Ultimate Magus. While in practical terms that does make you able to "prepare" against anything all it really seems to me is that you have tried as hard as you can to change your wizard into a sorcerer with unlimited spells known or at best started using that spell points system (I think it was in UA).

It follows then that you aren't really "preparing" for a fight since you are leaving a TON of spell options over, you aren't making any real choices on what you want since you will just make it up as you need to. Improvisation, even if flawlessly executed and effective, just doesn't equal Batman to me. I had always assumed that wizards were using a carefully planned out approach that changed every day to be so omnipotent.

Yora
2012-01-23, 09:29 PM
Does "drowning" count as being threatened for Swim checks? Does "fall into doom" count as being threatened for Balance and Jump checks? Does "hit by nasty trap" count as being threatened for Disable Device and Search checks? ......
Which are additional examples for the same question: Can you take 10 on them?

Dazed&Confused
2012-01-23, 10:14 PM
Which are additional examples for the same question: Can you take 10 on them?

What he meant is that you can find a really bad consequence for any action you take, which would make you unable to take 10 on anything at all if "fear of consequences" counted as being threatened.

Dragon Star
2012-01-23, 10:39 PM
Which are additional examples for the same question: Can you take 10 on them?

Yes, yes you can.

Coidzor
2012-01-23, 10:48 PM
Things with a swim speed can always take 10 on swim checks (RAW) so long as they're capable of making checks at all(RAI).

Chronos
2012-01-23, 11:07 PM
There are also other ways to boost Int checks besides boosting Int. Illumians can get +2 to all of their Int checks, and a Luckstone or Pale Green Ioun Stone will each give a +1 to all ability checks (among other things). And there are probably others I can't think of off the top of my head. Even if you can't take 10, that's enough that a 32 Int (easily available to a high-level wizard) will always succeed.

Denamort
2012-01-23, 11:10 PM
I have read the previous post and I believe there is too much emphasis in how to make a build that is basically an spointaneous Wizard. That's not hwo wizards are allways prepared. Yes, those tricks exist, but they will most likely not come up in a campaing. Most palyers will fall into two categories:
Doesn't know enough of the system to use does tricks or Does know enough but doesn't use them, because having the wizard solve every encounter in -1 round is boring.
Divinations are also good, but a crafty DM may provide the wizard with unclear answers. Also, if you are palying in a Sandbox campaing, the DM may not know what you will face, an so can't give you any answer if you use divinations.

However, a wizard using only core only options can always be prepared, not by the uses of optimization, but by the use of logic and a good knowledge of the sistem.

First, there are several spells that are always good. When does a Timestop doesn't help? Or a Summon Monster? Slow, Haste, Shapechange. This are spells that are usufull in every situation, except for very specific situations. Usually this situations were created to counter those spells in particular (Mostly things like AMF).
Secondly, variety. If you can choose between five spells that deal fire damage or 1 spell that deals each type of damage (one sound, one ice, one fire, etc.) you should always go for the second. You may encounter a Black Dragon, wich means that your Acid Arrow is useless. But your Fireball, your Cone of Cold and so will make effect. Same thing with Saves. If all you spells have Fortitude your going to have a hard time against figthers, whereas Reflex save are usually useless against Rogues. But if you have one Dominate Monster, one Baleful Polyorph and one Telekinetic Sphere you have something for everything.
Third, common sense. Your character should probably know where in the world he is. He should have a general idea of what kind of creatures live there. This is way is important to invest your skillpoints in the Knowledge skills, that way you know what you will probably face. Also, having the knowledge skill is a good way to justify your metagame knowledge of monsters. You could end up in the magical prision of the Crazy Wizard, that summons random monsters from somewhere in the multiverse, but baring that unlikely scenario, you are probably safe.
Fourth, items. Scrolls and Wands are very usufull for spells you rarely use or that are use usually once or twice a day. Knock is probably used once or twice a day, at most. A wand, with fifty charges will cover your needs.
Fifth, knowing your party. If I'm with a Barbarian who has four attacks per round and deals 100 damage per hit in a bad day I'm not goind to waste my spell slots with a fireball. I'll use Haste and buy the Barbarian and entire armory with one weapon of every alchemical metal in existence. Add any buff that give extra AC or prevent damage and the only thing I have to do in combat is turn Insisible and buff my companions until they are immortal.
Lastly, fleeing. With teleport, greater invisibility and flying you can escape almost any threat, and return later, better prepeared.

All of this doesn't make the wizard an infallible, unbeatable character. It only makes him reliable. He will be able to contribute in a meaningfull way 95% of the time. Wich is more that can be said from the other classes. The idea is that the wizard doesn't suffer the "Bad Day" effect as much as other classes. A Bard and his enchantments or a Rogue with his Sneak Attack is very weakened against undead. A figther that doesn't carry a diferent weapon of every Alchemical metal know to men can become worthless in certain encounters. A wizard, on the other hand will most likely have a few spells that can help in any situation.

Grendus
2012-01-23, 11:33 PM
Add in Versatile Spellcaster, that you qualify for with Uncanny Forethought, and you never need to prepare any spells again. It also removes the need for Eidetic Spellcaster, as you don't care about your spellbook after you've scribed a spell into it. Just grab an empty spellbook if you ever need to scribe a new spell so you know it.

Tack on a few levels of Mage of the Arcane Order. Now he doesn't need to prepare slots at all. He can spontaneously cast any of the spells he knows a number of times a day equal to his int modifier, which he uses up first. After that, he can sacrifice lower spell levels via Versatile Spellcaster for the same effect. Outside of combat, he can use the Spellpool to solve puzzles, access divination, etc. During the downtime, he can prepare a few extra spells to pay off the debt.

Congratulations, we have invented the StP Erudite, wizard entry.

imneuromancer
2012-01-24, 12:21 PM
A lot of the spell loop abuse is new to me, but then again I pretty much limit myself to the Core/Complete/Spc/Races books so that I don't get too utterly cheesy in the way I deal with problems. It makes a nice neat subset for thinking of how to solve problems given essentially limited resources.

Having said that, some useful spells or tricks:
1) Arcane Eye / chain of eyes. May need to "Dominate" a bug or something to act as your eyes.
2) Earth Elementals with Earth Glide as scouts
3) Invisible stalkers or similar creatures as scouts
4) Various divination spells already mentioned (contact other plane, commune, scry, etc.)
5) Clairvoyance and similar spells as necessary and possible.

Wake up, do the various above tricks based on the situation. Have your scouts and spells give you the layout of the dungeon, its inhabitants, etc.

Then prepare spells accordingly. This generally works better at higher levels and with more time. At low levels and no time, it sucks up a lot of your power....

Urpriest
2012-01-24, 12:40 PM
Another thing to consider: spells like Shapechange et al don't by themselves allow a Wizard to prepare for everything. What they do is make them able to deal with essentially every threat, so that the few threats that can't be addressed by general purpose spells can be prepared for.

Here's an example of a more limited case: suppose you're a Mailman or other caster that focuses on killing things with an overwhelmingly metamagiced Orb of Fire (Wizards can do this too, Cindy being the canonical example). This will kill almost anything. Then all you need to do is pick up spells to deal with cases that won't handle. So you grab Orb of Force, a decent AOE, maybe a debuff and True Strike, and you're done.

The idea is that you can plan for the edge cases without too much trouble because you've got room since your other spells can usually take an encounter in one go.

Rubik
2012-01-24, 02:49 PM
Checks that almost any wizard capable of casting the spell (level 9) will auto-pass seem to either be a waste of table space or not the intent of the spell rules, even if you could argue the ambiguity of the RAW there. Concentrating on a spell probably counts as "distracted".You can explicitly take 10 on ability checks, and if concentrating on a spell counts as 'distracted' then you literally cannot concentrate on casting any spell without having to make a Concentration check (else you'll lose it because you're 'distracted').

gkathellar
2012-01-24, 03:15 PM
I'd say the crucial thing is that wizards are basically at their best when they're active, not reactive. Magic allows for a lot of lateral thinking (for example: why cross the antimagic moat, when you could tunnel around it) and wizards have a tremendous variety of abilities to apply their lateral thinking to. Therefore, a smart wizard actively chooses his battles, and the circumstances of his battles — divination helps with this, but so does any other spell that allows them to control the circumstances of an engagement, or prepare for said engagement.

So it's not that wizards always has the right spells prepared for any situation. It's that they work hard to have the right spells prepared for the situations they choose to get themselves into — and that, more often than not, they cast yesterday's spells preparing even further for that situation.


Tack on a few levels of Mage of the Arcane Order. Now he doesn't need to prepare slots at all. He can spontaneously cast any of the spells he knows a number of times a day equal to his int modifier, which he uses up first. After that, he can sacrifice lower spell levels via Versatile Spellcaster for the same effect. Outside of combat, he can use the Spellpool to solve puzzles, access divination, etc. During the downtime, he can prepare a few extra spells to pay off the debt.

Congratulations, we have invented the StP Erudite, wizard entry.

Already much easier to do with (Spontaneous Caster) 20, Versatile Spellcaster and Magical Training. Either way, it's TO in all but the craziest games.

Alienist
2012-01-24, 03:39 PM
Granted I do understand their potential to learn every spell

Sadly, that would consume a large proportion of WBL.

Also, doesn't it (the divination question) depend on a broad interpretation of the spell wording? If this is for a world you're making then you can just decide that is how those divinations work.

It's like the Tippy-verse, the whole thing is ridiculous because it is predicated on the notion that level 17+ wizards are going to be common as muck and will happily run around blowing their wad (5000xp at a time) setting up teleportation circles from everywhere to everywhere. But someone will say 'what about thought bottle?' in which case I would ask how did all the wizards in the world become so retarded? Because if the best thing these high level wizards can think of to do with infinite xp is to set up teleportation circles then there has been a plague of feeblemindedness. Someone else might say 'npc wizards don't spend xp...' but the fundamental objection remains, its just an implausibly bad way to spend infinite (or null) xp.

However... if you are playing in the tippy-verse (or something like it) then you just go with the flow. Accept that premise and move on.

So, in conclusion, as DM just hand-wave it into existence. And anyway, the best villains are going to be the ones who've figured out how to beat the system, so it doesn't need to be solid, it needs a few holes, some gaps in the logic... (unless all your bad guyts cast cloister in which case, yikes) :D

Hirax
2012-01-24, 05:17 PM
Sadly, that would consume a large proportion of WBL.


I don't necessarily agree. To factor free spells, let's assume a domain wizard that starts with 18 int, for 7 free spells at 1st level, and 2 free spells per level thereafter, plus free domain spells:

48,950 GP configuration
240 spells, 1 blessed book, 995 pages
40/40/30/30/30/20/20/15/15

106,200 GP configuration
405 spells, 2 blessed books, 1890 pages
50/50/50/50/50/50/35/35/35

161,200 GP configuration
600 spells, 3 blessed books, 2,740 pages
80/80/80/70/70/60/60/50/50

The first configuration should be affordable by 17th level, and the final configuration by 20th level. If you want to be super awesome, grab 2 levels of geometer to fit everything in one blessed book. If for fun you were 20th level with 2 levels of geometer, and wanted to fill a single blessed book, you could put in 120 spells from levels 1 to 5 and 100 spells from levels 6-9. The cost would be 239,200, including the cost of the book. One thousand spells, one book, hot diggity it's expensive, but don't you wish you had that book? This probably isn't enough for every spell, but wanting more is probably not all that practical.

Collegiate wizard and elf generalist can be added if desired for further savings, though not much. If it's a choice between elf generalist and domain wizard, though, elf generalist is probably better because you can pick the spells you get, and you get more of them. Cantrips should probably just be kept regular 15 GP books. I'd like to thank Excel for its math wizardry.

Alienist
2012-01-24, 10:50 PM
I don't necessarily agree.
...
hot diggity it's expensive,


I think you accidentally proved my point.

Thanks for doing the math! :D

Hirax
2012-01-25, 12:42 AM
I think you're underestimating how much can be done with the cheapest configuration. Even then, wizards aren't magic item dependent, it wouldn't be at all unreasonable for them to spend half their WBL on spells, which means even at level 17 they could have the 3rd option if they wanted peak versatility, and at level 20 they buy more than the ludicrous 4th option. The 4th option was only presented jokingly, I don't think anyone could justify buying so many spells. Not because of the cost, but the diminishing returns of scavenging for worthwhile spells. You'd need to go to a lot of work to put together a list 1,000 spells that you actually want, putting together a spellbook with a couple hundred spells is hard enough (which is why nobody posts complete wizard builds). If you're starting a character at 17th+ level and want to devote over 200k of your WBL to spells, as a DM I'd probably just say 'you have them all.' I just thought using geometer to fill a blessed book with 1,000 spells made for a cool aesthetic.

edit: for my own curiosity I counted, option 4 allows for you to scribe every 1st and 9th level spell in the PHB and Spell Compendium with room left over. I didn't check 2nd-8th, but I'd guess the same is true. I counted 113 1st level spells and 54 9th level spells, so if any of the levels between 1st and 9th go over budget, there's plenty of unused GP in the 9th level budget.

Telok
2012-01-25, 06:28 AM
You can explicitly take 10 on ability checks, and if concentrating on a spell counts as 'distracted' then you literally cannot concentrate on casting any spell without having to make a Concentration check (else you'll lose it because you're 'distracted').

A minor nit-pick.


ABILITY CHECKS
Sometimes a character tries to do something to which no specific skill really applies. In these cases, you make an ability check. An ability check is a roll of 1d20 plus the appropriate ability modifier. Essentially, you’re making an untrained skill check.

Taking 10 applies to skill checks. A DM may rule either way according to personal preference.

Aharon
2012-01-25, 06:51 AM
@Telok


Ability Checks and Caster Level Checks

The normal take 10 and take 20 rules apply for ability checks. Neither rule applies to caster level checks.

quotes don't count as message, thus, text.

Polarity Shift
2012-01-25, 02:08 PM
Consider a Wizard whose spells are a mixture of:

1: Grease, Nerveskitter (can come from a wand), Ray of Enfeeblement, Silent Image.
2: Arcane Turmoil, Glitterdust, Mirror Image, Rope Trick, Web.
3: Fly, Haste, Slow, Stinking Cloud.
4: Black Tentacles, Dispelling Screen.

Is he prepared for absolutely everything? No. Does he have at least one and likely multiple answers to all but the most obscure of problems at this level, including problems several levels higher than himself? Yes. Are all of those core only except three? Yes.

No foreknowledge is required here, he will hold his own against optimized enemies designed to resist spells and destroy anything less.

imneuromancer
2012-01-25, 02:51 PM
Nerveskitter (can come from a wand)

Can spells that are reactive and immediate (i.e. before combat begins, like nerveskitter) be put on a wand?

I mean, you can put quickened spells on a wand, but a quickened spell is not the same as a swifted/immediate spell.

(I think someone pointed out in another thread that, by RAW, nerveskitter can't work because you can't cast quickened, immediate, or swift spells until you are not flat footed, which is where you are when you are when you cast nerveskitter..... so the rules on this are pretty vague or contradictory, it seems).

Devmaar
2012-01-25, 03:26 PM
Can spells that are reactive and immediate (i.e. before combat begins, like nerveskitter) be put on a wand?

I mean, you can put quickened spells on a wand, but a quickened spell is not the same as a swifted/immediate spell.

(I think someone pointed out in another thread that, by RAW, nerveskitter can't work because you can't cast quickened, immediate, or swift spells until you are not flat footed, which is where you are when you are when you cast nerveskitter..... so the rules on this are pretty vague or contradictory, it seems).

Nerveskitter is a specific exception to the rule about being unable to cast while flat-footed. Further, Rules Compendium clarified that a wand can be used with the same casting time as the spell itself.

dextercorvia
2012-01-25, 04:27 PM
Can spells that are reactive and immediate (i.e. before combat begins, like nerveskitter) be put on a wand?

I mean, you can put quickened spells on a wand, but a quickened spell is not the same as a swifted/immediate spell.

(I think someone pointed out in another thread that, by RAW, nerveskitter can't work because you can't cast quickened, immediate, or swift spells until you are not flat footed, which is where you are when you are when you cast nerveskitter..... so the rules on this are pretty vague or contradictory, it seems).


Nerveskitter is a specific exception to the rule about being unable to cast while flat-footed. Further, Rules Compendium clarified that a wand can be used with the same casting time as the spell itself.

That's why you put it in a Wand Chamber in your Eager/Warning Staff Gauntlet or whatever.:smallwink:

Gnaeus
2012-01-25, 05:38 PM
d) COP is a 5th level spell as is Commune. The table for COP give an 88 percent chance of a true answer for contacting a greater deity, a 2 percent chance of an "I don't know", a 1 percent chance of a random answer, and a 9 percent chance for an outright lie. That is the best plane to contact so far as getting a reliably true answer is concerned. COP allows 1 question per 2 CL. My issue here is that you have to spend an ungodly number of divination spells (with no verification of truth, 9-10 percent chance of an outright lie) from 5th level to be effective. To cover even most obvious things you'd have to cast it multiple times and never be sure that the crucial question you asked wouldn't turn out to be the one time it was a lie. ("Will I encounter an enemy with antimagic today? NOPE!")

But there is a good chance your familiar can commune earlier, and while lesser planar binding (To get an outsider to cast commune for you) is also level 5, there is no chance of a lie.

LordBlades
2012-01-26, 05:40 AM
While in theory you could divine the perfect spell list(CoP with a greater deity of magic and ask him/her which will be the best, 2nd best etc. spells to prepare tomorrow), that's not usually very fun in practice, especially for the DM. It sucks having to answer such detailed questions on behalf of somebody who would know the future (due to portfolio sense) when you don't. So may groups will either discourage such use for divinations, or find more or less cumbersome ways around it.

There are however much simpler ways to have a well prepared ways, most revolving around proactive play and more general use of divinations.

What is proactive play? Most mundane classes are reactive in nature. That is, you're forced to follow the story and work with what you're given. You've got no ways to spawn bridges out of thin air to say so.

Let's say a mundane of some variety wakes up one morning and wants to kill a dragon. He'll first have to ask around where he can find one, and he might or might not get useful info (DM's choice, people around him might simply not know the location of a dragon, or be too afraid to tell him), then he'll have to travel to the dragon's lair on a given road or a given length (again DM's choice) where he might or might not encounter some random monsters of the DM's choosing and most likely the dragon will get word of him coming sooner or later, and the mundane will have to fight him at a time and place of the dragon's choosing.

Now let's consider a wizard (proactive class). If he wants to find a dragon he can simply CoP a dragon or knowledge deity. Short of pure DM fiat (or a weird campaign setting) if somebody in the world knows where a dragon could be found, the wizard will too. He can use similar methods (and scrying) to gather more detailed info about one specific dragon, his lair and defenses. The road to the dragon's lair and whatever monsters might be lurking around it are irrelevant since he can just teleport to destination, loaded with dragon killing spells(because that's why he's there, to kill a dragon). Also, he is the one that gets to choose the time and place of the battle, since he can arrive from hundreds of miles in the space of 1 round.

Of course, sometimes you will miss something, and you'll get to face a situation you didn't expect. A wizard's (and any other tier 1-2 caster for that matter) contains enough general purpose spells(shapechange, forcecage, solid fog, etc) to deal with most enemies without preparing for them specifically, and even if that particular enemy is immune to all you've got, you still have enough escape options so you can come back better prepared.
Enemies that are both immune to all your offense and can also render your defense and escape ineffective at the same time are pretty rare, and have usually prepared specially for you.


And this is where divinations come in again. One of the most important IMHO questions you should put every <insert time interval here> via CoP is 'will anyone actively seek to attack me in the next <insert same time interval>?'
Once you know they're coming for you, you can get more details about them (if needed) and be prepared and/or strike first.

Having done all that, you should have: appropriate spells for what you want to do today (i.e. dragon killing), good preparations vs. whoever might be coming for you today, and some general purpose spells covering unexpected situations.

From my experience this leaves you extremely well prepared for at least 99% of situations.

Polarity Shift
2012-01-26, 01:51 PM
Can spells that are reactive and immediate (i.e. before combat begins, like nerveskitter) be put on a wand?

According to Rules Compendium spells faster than a Standard action take that action. According to the errata for Nerveskitter you can use it while flat footed, else it'd be entirely useless.

The main point I was making though is that Divinations are hyped up a lot and although they are useful they are not nearly as necessary as they are so often presumed to be. It's not as if spells are some narrow and rigid things that only work in specific circumstances. The good ones don't, at least. Even with zero foreknowledge you can get through most stuff with a general list.

If you did have narrow tricks you would need foreknowledge to use them. But for that to happen you'd have to be a mundane with a magic shop, that way you could go buy the items you need to be effective against whatever you're going to fight next (things like feats, etc cannot be adapted nearly fast enough to allow for any sort of preparation during the game). If you were such a character you'd only have access to the aforementioned divinations second hand.