The Fiends Now Know the truth about the gates

[Alex Warlorn]

If the Fiends didn't know about the truth about the gate before, or rather the ritual around it, they do now. They've shown a VERY vested interest in the goings on with the heroes and villains, and it's not hard to imagine that one, some, or all of those fiends were employed by them. Also, while they may not bother keeping an magic eye on a minion Xykon was likely kill when he got bored with her, they WOULD keep an eye on Redcloak. When means they now know the truth about the gates.

Which means they need to decide if it's more profitable to their cause for the Dark One to know they know, or whether they should keep that to themselves.

AFter all, in the end, as much as RC talks about using Xykon when he thinks he's using RC, when in the end the Fiends are the ones using all of them.

[Ancalagon]

I think they already have a good plan regarding the gates.

For example the same as the Dark One, just without the blackmail part and involving only the good gods.

[EmperorSarda]

I think that until the comic suggests that the Fiends were looking in at that very moment that Redcloak told Tsukiko about the plan, or that as a dead person she tells the fiends of what went on, I think we can safely assume that the Fiends don't know the truth of the ritual.

[factotum]

I doubt the fiends give a flying rat's rump for the ritual--I'm sure they have their own ways and means of exploiting the Snarl once they can locate a Gate.

[EmperorSarda]

I doubt the fiends give a flying rat's rump for the ritual--I'm sure they have their own ways and means of exploiting the Snarl once they can locate a Gate.

True... which raises the question of where Nale learned about the ritual (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html). Either he saw the gate in the Dungeon of Dorukan and connected some dots, or the Fiends have their own ritual.

[Alex Warlorn]

True... which raises the question of where Nale learned about the ritual (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html). Either he saw the gate in the Dungeon of Dorukan and connected some dots, or the Fiends have their own ritual.

Indeed, why bother with a land invasion when you can just nuke the entire upper planes. They likely wouldn't mind they couldn't control the Snarl's actions directly, if they get the Plane Shift of the Snarl's tear in reality to manifest on any plane of existence they want, they could destroy the upper planes one by one. Without once having to get their hand dirty.

[ti'esar]

Indeed, why bother with a land invasion when you can just nuke the entire upper planes. They likely wouldn't mind they couldn't control the Snarl's actions directly, if they get the Plane Shift of the Snarl's tear in reality to manifest on any plane of existence they want, they could destroy the upper planes one by one. Without once having to get their hand dirty.

But how do you put the Snarl back in the box after it's done? The IFCC Directors are archfiends, but they aren't gods - the "destroy the world and rebuild it around the Snarl again" option isn't really available. What little we've heard on their plan for the gates (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html) does sound a little like they're planning to unleash it, but if so there's got to be a lot more then we've heard.

[EmperorSarda]

But how do you put the Snarl back in the box after it's done? The IFCC Directors are archfiends, but they aren't gods - the "destroy the world and rebuild it around the Snarl again" option isn't really available. What little we've heard on their plan for the gates (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html) does sound a little like they're planning to unleash it, but if so there's got to be a lot more then we've heard.

I think they are just planning on unleashing the Snarl on the upper planes, not destroying the world. If the world is destroyed, they get no new souls.

But... still that raises the question of the ritual and how Nale knows about it.

I find it unlikely that Redcloak and Xykon would have mentioned a ritual at all around Nale and the Linear Guild in the Dungeon of Durokan.

It is possible that Nale, when he was disguised as Elan, heard suspicions from the Order of the Stick and Shinjo of some idea of a ritual that Xykon was going to use... and going off that to save his own life.

As for the Fiends, assuming they have watched enough of Xykon and Redcloak, they have the Arcane part of the ritual. But they lack copies of the clerical portion to cribb off and change.

[Fitzclowningham]

True... which raises the question of where Nale learned about the ritual (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html). Either he saw the gate in the Dungeon of Dorukan and connected some dots, or the Fiends have their own ritual.

He learned about it from Shojo when he was disguised as Elan.

Also, to the OP, why would the fiends know about it now? RC dismissed them before his big speech to Tsukiko.

[zimmerwald1915]

He learned about it from Shojo when he was disguised as Elan.
Shojo didn't know about the Ritual. He suspected that the Gates could be used to manipulate the Snarl, but as for how to do so Shojo was entirely in the dark. As far as we know, it takes some pretty hefty know-how to manipulate the Gates. Only The Dark One's ever been shown to manage it. That said the fiends are certainly powerful. They call themselves "rulers of [various] planar domains". They might have a ritual of some sort up their sleeves. But if they do they haven't shared it with Nale.

EDIT: stupid punctuation error on my part needed fixing.

[Fitzclowningham]

Shojo didn't know about the Ritual. He suspected that the Gates could be used to manipulate the Snarl, but as for how to do so Shojo was entirely in the dark. As far as we know, it takes some pretty hefty know-how to manipulate the Gates. Only The Dark One's ever been shown to manage it. That said the fiends are certainly powerful. They call themselves "rulers of [various] planar domains". They might have a ritual of some sort up their sleeves. But if they do they haven't shared it with Nale.

Ah, right you are. And the IFCC knows via Sabine.

[Rorrik]

We've discussed some of the possibilities mentioned here in an earlier thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229986), but I'm curious why the OP is so sure the fiends know about the ritual. If they do, and if they can in fact create there own allowing them to move the snarls through the upper planes then this seems like a very likely outcome.


But how do you put the Snarl back in the box after it's done? The IFCC Directors are archfiends, but they aren't gods - the "destroy the world and rebuild it around the Snarl again" option isn't really available. What little we've heard on their plan for the gates (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html) does sound a little like they're planning to unleash it, but if so there's got to be a lot more then we've heard.

This suggests that they might know they can't control and intend to just leave it on the upper planes, saving the world and killing the gods.

[Dr.Epic]

For example the same as the Dark One, just without the blackmail part and involving only the good gods.

Or the Gods in general. They only care about creating conflict.

[zimmerwald1915]

Or the Gods in general. They only care about creating conflict.
Creating conflict is not their goal. Their goal is the conquest of the Upper Planes by the Lower, and the downfall or destruction of the Good gods. They wanted conflict at the point in the story at which they were introduced. The heroes were unable to act and the villans were unmotivated to act. The story was getting bogged down. They wanted conflict because conflict drives drama and advances the story, not because they want to increase the entropy of the universe.

[Michaeler]

Can you scry on a dimensionally locked room?

[zimmerwald1915]

Can you scry on a dimensionally locked room?
Sure. Though if Redcloak went to the trouble of dimensionally locking his room, he probably has wards in place against scrying as well. Not to mention Cloister.

[Gift Jeraff]

Though we know their HDTVs can already bypass the Cloister, and perhaps all magic powered by the Outer Planes can pierce it.

[zimmerwald1915]

Though we know their HDTVs can already bypass the Cloister, and perhaps all magic powered by the Outer Planes can pierce it.
Michaeler's question pertained to the relationship between Dimensonal Lock and Scry. The answer to that quite bounded question is that there isn't any and that Scry is blocked by different wards. The fact that these wards can themselves be pierced by more powerful scrying methods is outside the scope of that particular exchange, however relevant to the overall discussion, and to the plot of the story, it may be.

[veti]

What's the point of unleashing the Snarl on the upper planes? Once it's done, there'll be nothing left to occupy.

The Snarl is the OOTSverse equivalent of a nuclear weapon. Everyone (who aspires to be a Power) wants to have it, but it would take a very special kind of crazy to actually use it. The power comes from the threat, not the action itself.

That's how The Dark One plans to use it, and I suspect the IFCC has the same thing in mind.