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Seerow
2012-01-23, 04:16 PM
I'm starting up a druid in a new campaign starting from level 1 soon. Going with halfling using the sub levels (free skill points, more class skills, and a bonus to ride? Sure why not), and using it with the Spontaneous Divine Caster variant in the SRD. Part of the halfling sub is that instead of free SNA 1-5, you get other spells:

1-Jump
2-Spider Climb
3-Protection from Energy
4-Freedom of Movement
5-Tree Stride

6-9 are the appropriate SNA as normal. But I doubt this particular character is going to get that high.

Anyway, that's enough background. The question is, given I am going with a spontaneous variant, and haven't played a druid in years (and a druid with non-core available in even longer), I'm looking for suggestions for good spells in the level 1-5 range to pick up as spells known. Spells that are universally useful as opposed to niche/environmentally dependent are preferred. For example, entangle is out because I can't be sure what sort of environment we'll be adventuring in, and having entangle in a campaign with minimal plants to use with it would be a waste. (Though as we level I may start incorporating more of these niche spells as I get a feel for what to expect).

(And before someone links it yes I have looked at the druid handbook, I'm looking more for what people have generally found useful in the past.)

NeoSeraphi
2012-01-23, 04:26 PM
Even though it's in the Handbook, lesser vigor is a really useful spell for 1st-3rd level, and then after that it just becomes something you can use as an afterthought if you find your other 1st level spells aren't that interesting.

Since you're a Small character with a Strength penalty, you're probably not going to be interested in pre-Wild Shape melee, so I would suggest getting enrage animal as a buff for your animal companion, and maybe asking the party wizard to cast enlarge person on you while you're riding your animal companion (since that's what it sounds like you'll be doing). That way, you can share it with your animal companion via Share Spells and both of you can get up a size category. An enraged Large size riding dog should be able to handle combat pretty well at 1st.

If you do want to fight on your own, aspect of the wolf (IIRC) from the Spell Compendium is great. You get to be a wolf, you get Trip, you deal better damage and you're Medium. Kudos all around. It's better than Shillelagh for a halfling, anyway.

Since you don't want niche spells, just buy a wand of lesser restoration and don't waste your spells known on it (obviously). Splinterbolt is a useful little tool for any druid, being a high DPS 2nd level spell that you can cast reliably as long as you have wood.

Greenish
2012-01-23, 04:42 PM
Shillelagh! Never leave home without it! Not quite so hot for a small character, though.

Instant of Power (FoW) is a nice spell in a tight place: +4 to a save (or attack or damage roll) as an immediate action.

Updraft (SC) is a funny spell, but I'm not sure I'd take it as a spell known on a spontaneous character who can get flight or climb speed from wildshape.

NeoSeraphi
2012-01-23, 04:45 PM
Oh, right, there's master of air from the Spell Compendium as well. Not only do druids get fly, they get it 1 level earlier than a wizard! (It's self-only though)

Seerow
2012-01-23, 05:05 PM
Even though it's in the Handbook, lesser vigor is a really useful spell for 1st-3rd level, and then after that it just becomes something you can use as an afterthought if you find your other 1st level spells aren't that interesting.


Yeah, definitely grabbing this. At higher levels when I can afford a wand will probably swap it out for something else.


so I would suggest getting enrage animal as a buff for your animal companion, and maybe asking the party wizard to cast enlarge person on you while you're riding your animal companion (since that's what it sounds like you'll be doing). That way, you can share it with your animal companion via Share Spells and both of you can get up a size category. An enraged Large size riding dog should be able to handle combat pretty well at 1st.

Okay that's pretty cool. I'm not sure about getting enrage animal at first level (though will probably pick it up shortly after), but getting an enlarge person to share with a mount you're riding is pretty cool. I generally ignore share spell, but if I'm riding him anyway, may as well take advantage of it.


Since you don't want niche spells, just buy a wand of lesser restoration and don't waste your spells known on it (obviously). Splinterbolt is a useful little tool for any druid, being a high DPS 2nd level spell that you can cast reliably as long as you have wood.


That wand would be 4500 gp, which isn't really accessible until like level 5-6, and pretty iffy even then. Would it be worth it to have lesser restoration at early levels and retrain it out on 6 or 8 when you can afford the wand? I guess that really depends on the GM and monsters used against us though.



Shillelagh! Never leave home without it! Not quite so hot for a small character, though.


Yeah, the melee damage isn't so hot with a halfling who has no strength bonus, even with the spell. Are there any spells that are good for archery? I know I saw one for +range, I guess it'd be too much to hope for something like +damage on sling bullets or something.


Instant of Power (FoW) is a nice spell in a tight place: +4 to a save (or attack or damage roll) as an immediate action.


Wow that is really nice. I don't think the DM will let me cherry pick out of setting books, but that is worth asking after.


Updraft (SC) is a funny spell, but I'm not sure I'd take it as a spell known on a spontaneous character who can get flight or climb speed from wildshape.


Yeah that looks like a cool spell, but compared to the master of air mentioned by NS seems kind of meh. Plus I get jump and spider climb as spells known for free, which should replace most of the places where I would need updraft.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2012-01-23, 05:05 PM
Enrage Animal (SC) for your animal companion, preferably cast and concentrated on while hiding behind a wooden tower shield.

Wall of Smoke (SC), cast across one or more opponents' spaces so they have to save immediately and again every round they remain in it. Even better if they've been tripped by your wolf companion.

Produce Flame, which is good with a Lesser Rod of Extend. Once you can Wild Shape you can cast this (Circlet of Rapid Casting helps) and then follow up with a full attack. It will add fire damage to all of your natural weapon attacks, as per holding the charge on a touch spell.

Creeping Cold (SC), especially with a Lesser Rod of Extend.

Heat/Chill Metal, cast it on an opponent's weapon so they drop it, an effect that not even Aragorn was able to resist.

Splinterbolt (SC) if you have a decent Dex bonus, since it's a regular ranged attack instead of a ranged touch attack.

Mass Snake's Swiftness (SC) if you have a lot of allies in melee range.

Bone Talisman (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a) (turning), especially if you put Unguent of Timelessness on the foci so it lasts 365 times longer than normal.

Seerow
2012-01-23, 05:12 PM
Hrm, what about Sand Blast (spell compendium)? It's a close burst, but stunning in a 10ft radius even for one round seems really strong at level 1. Is there a downside I'm missing?

Greenish
2012-01-23, 05:34 PM
Are there any spells that are good for archery? I know I saw one for +range, I guess it'd be too much to hope for something like +damage on sling bullets or something.Yeah, Hawkeye in MIC. Not that great.

There's Magic Stone in the core, and Giant's Wrath in MIC, but that's all I can think of.

Seerow
2012-01-23, 05:43 PM
Yeah, Hawkeye in MIC. Not that great.

There's Magic Stone in the core, and Giant's Wrath in MIC, but that's all I can think of.

I wouldn't mind magic stone if I could just get magic stone that applies to everything I shoot for 30 minutes instead of 3 stones.


And I assume you mean SC not MIC. Giant's Wrath is kind of cool, but same problem as magic stone, and by the time I have it I'll be able to wild shape.

ShriekingDrake
2012-01-23, 09:56 PM
Here's one approach for the first 10 levels

1--0: Create Water, Detect Magic, Guidance, Light; 1: Entangle, Produce Flame.
2--0: Read Magic
3--1: Shillelagh
4--0: Know Direction; 2: Kelpstrand (SC)
5--1: Aspect of the Wolf (SC); 2: Blinding Spittle (SC)
6--0: Dawn (SC); 1:[Produce Flame]-->Lesser Vigor (SC); 3: Venomfire (SK)
7--1: Omen of Peril (SC); 2: Splinterbolt (SC); 3: Spiritjaws (SC)
8--1: [Shillelagh]-->Enrage Animal; 4: Friendly Fire (EoE)
9--2: Mass Snake's Swiftness (SC); 3: Poison; 4: Enhance Wild Shape (SC)
10--0 Cure Minor Wounds; 2: Bone Talisman; 3: Greater Magic Fang; 4: Greater Luminous Armor; 5: Owl's Insight.

Darrin
2012-01-24, 06:50 AM
I'm looking for suggestions for good spells in the level 1-5 range to pick up as spells known.

Here's some spells I recommended in another thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12183941&postcount=4), several which have been mentioned already:

1st
Entangle (core). Your bread-and-butter debuff, particularly at low levels, and unless you have Sculpt Spell you want to get this off early before everyone closes to melee and friendlies get in the way. If there are no plants available, fungus = plants so cast spore field (Complete Scoundrel) first.

Faerie fire (core). Negates invisiblity, blur, blink, and most other forms of concealment (except for magical darkness). Another good spell to "paint" enemies on the first round, and then follow up with obscuring mist/fog cloud so you can pepper them with ranged attacks while they stumble through fog/entangle squares.

Produce flame (core). The "druid crossbow", ranged touch attacks out to 120', or shift into wildshape and add fire damage to one of your claw attacks. Can also be used to light things on fire, such as oil, webs (via the spell or monstrous spider summons), incendiary slime, or wall of thorns (hey it's magical fire).

Instant of Power (Forge of War). As an *immediate* action, grant an ally (including yourself) a +4 enhancement bonus on an attack, save, or damage roll (great way to add damage after someone confirms a crit). Buy a wand (750 GP) and put this in a wand chamber (100 GP, Dungeonscape).

Aspect of the Wolf (SC). Who says you have to wait until level 5 to wildshape?

Cloudburst (SC). Debuff vs. ranged attacks, but mostly useful for getting 3d10 damage on call lightning.

Lesser Vigor (SC). CLW cures an average of 5.5 to 9.5 HP, this one does 11-15 HP, so much more efficient outside of combat.

Wood Wose (SC). Everything an unseen servant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8235936&postcount=8) can do, only in a more druid-friendly color palette.

Conjure Ice Beast I (Frostburn). Gives you access to the summon monster list, and some interesting special attacks: frigid touch, ice breath, cold aura, and engulf (more on this one later). Cold aura is particularly nifty: free action every round, 1d6 cold damage in a 10' burst, *no save*. Summon a bunch of beasts at once to do Xd6 damage to a small area with no save. Check with your DM if the phrase, "In all other ways, conjure ice beast I functions like summon monster I" allows you to use Augment Summoning, Golden Desert Honey, or Ring of the Beast with your ice beasts.

Path of Frost (Dragon Magic). Grease for treehuggers, although the area it affects is pretty small (up to 5 squares) unless you Sculpt it.

Blockade (Complete Scoundrel). Swift action to drop a 5' cube of wood into a square, which can be a nifty way to block a door/tunnel or create a choke point. Another good spell to put in a wand chamber.

Winged Watcher (Complete Scoundrel). Fly as a swift action, to do scouting, or a "Get Out of Death Free" card. With Natural Spell, might also let you do some low-level aerial bombardment.

2nd
Fire Trap (Core). Cast this on every flask of acid, oil, alchemist's fire, or other grenade-like weapon your party can get their hands on.

Flame Blade (Core). Melee touch attacks with a scimitar, so it's like getting wraithstrike for free. If you're running into too many creatures with fire resistance, switch to scimitar of sand (Sandstorm).

Soften Earth and Stone (Core). Lets your dire badgers tunnel throw solid rock.

Spider Climb (Core). Standing on the ceiling gets you out of melee, and lets you to rain down fire and lightning.

Summon Nature's Ally II (Core). Dire badgers are one of the few creatures that leave tunnels behind them when they burrow. Use soften earth and stone to let them tunnel through solid rock. When DMs design impregnable fortresses and deathtrap dungeons, they hardly ever anticipate tunneling.

Summon Swarm (Core). Battlefield control, area-effect damage, and nausea all wrapped up into a single spell.

Blinding Spittle (SC). Ranged touch attack (with a -4 penalty), target is blinded, *no save*.

Creeping Cold (SC). Chill metal without the training wheels. Add Extend Spell, and it becomes creaping DEATH: 21d6 damage over 6 rounds. Suck on that, Mr. Fireball Wizard.

Embrace the Wild (SC). Blindsense 30', which allows you to pinpoint invisible creatures for your faerie fire/torchbug paste.

Kelpstrand (SC). Grapple to set up sneak attacks, debuff high-dex opponents, immobilize an enemy, or shutdown a spellcaster. Particularly useful after everyone closes to melee range and entangle becomes impractical.

Splinterbolt (SC). Treehugger version of scorching ray. It's not a touch attack, but same damage, and has an 18-20 crit range.

Drifts of the Shalm (PHBII). Blanket your enemies in snow that slows movement and deals cold damage. Then add blood snow (Frostburn) for 1d2 Con drain and save vs. nausea.

Conjure Ice Beast II (Frostburn). Large monstrous centipede can engulf medium-sized enemies, or two wolves for 2x cold aura.

Frost Weapon (Frostburn). Another damage buff you can cast on your claws or your animal companion's.

3rd
Call Lightning (Core). Your basic druidzilla artillery spell. Cast cloudburst to increase the damage to 3d10, and add Sculpt Spell to go from artillery to carpet-bombing.

Sleet Storm (Core). Battlefield control to block LOS and force balance checks (slippery surface = more sneak attacks).

Summon Nature's Ally III (Core). Upgrade your dire badger burrowers to a thoqqua, the only other creature in core that leaves a tunnel behind when it burrows, only this one can dig through solid rock without softening it up first.

Heart of Water (Complete Mage). Swim speed, water breathing, and freedom of movement all in the same spell.

Conjure Ice Beast III (Frostburn). Huge monstrous centipede now available, which can engulf large-sized creatures, or four wolves for 4x cold aura.

Venomfire (Serpent Kingdoms). As if a fleshraker animal companion wasn't bad enough... Xd6 acid damage on a bite attack, and no maximum damage cap.

4th
Flame Strike (Core). You get this before any of the other top-tier casters, and it remains one of your best blasty-spells up to 15th level.

Ice Storm (Core). Not quite as satisfying as flame strike, but a good area-effect damage spell, particularly if you get tired of hearing "Evasion, no damage" or "roll for Spell Resistance".

Call of Stone (PHBII). Interesting way to put an ally in "stasis" to prevent some horrible effect that you can't quite fix at the moment (while turned to stone, creatures aren't considered either alive or dead... another nifty way to foil divination trying to target a "creature" rather than an object).

Heart of Earth (Complete Mage). Temp HP, +8 to resist bull rush, <snore>... but hey now, stoneskin at the same level as wizards get it, and no material component? Yes, I'll have some of that!

Wall of Salt (Sandstorm). Since salt is a trade good (1 lb salt = 5 GP), this spell is also known as "free money" or "collapse the local economy".

Vortex of Teeth (SC). Area effect, 3d8 force damage, no save.

5th
Wall of Thorns (Core). Treehugger version of solid fog.

Flesh to Salt (Sandstorm). This is one of the quintessential "Druids Win D&D" spells. It's a save-or-die like flesh to stone, only druids get it a level before wizards, but on top of that the target's equipment isn't included so you get to keep/sell it, and you can sell the body as a trade good for GP or effectively distintegrate the body by just adding water.


Hrm, what about Sand Blast (spell compendium)? It's a close burst, but stunning in a 10ft radius even for one round seems really strong at level 1. Is there a downside I'm missing?

Mostly the Ref save for half/no stun with a very low save DC. The damage is fixed at 1d6 so it doesn't get better as you level up, which means it's usefulness quickly fades once you get to 2nd level spells. Sculpt it into four 10' x 10' cubes and it's a little more interesting, but it's difficult to get that save up to a more respectable DC.

Flawless
2012-01-24, 12:28 PM
Produce Flame, which is good with a Lesser Rod of Extend. Once you can Wild Shape you can cast this (Circlet of Rapid Casting helps) and then follow up with a full attack. It will add fire damage to all of your natural weapon attacks, as per holding the charge on a touch spell.

Could you elaborate on this please? I don't get how this works exactly. The spell description doesn't mention this effect. I gather it works off some general rule on touch spells, but I can't find it.

ShriekingDrake
2012-01-24, 12:48 PM
Darrin's list is excellent and it's good that he keeps reposting it. May it live ever on . . .

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2012-01-24, 01:58 PM
Could you elaborate on this please? I don't get how this works exactly. The spell description doesn't mention this effect. I gather it works off some general rule on touch spells, but I can't find it.

From Touch Spells in Combat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardCastaSpell):

Holding the Charge
If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. (If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack.) If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
You can discharge one touch of Produce Flame on every natural weapon attack you make, whether it's a bite, claw, tail, rake, etc. Any time a part of your character touches another creature while you're holding the charge, you deliver a dose of the spell. It's in the Combat chapter of the PHB, pages 141-142, or at the SRD link above.

Flawless
2012-01-24, 02:03 PM
Thanks Biffoniacus_Furiou :)

That's really useful to know.