Bladelings, plane of Fire & Javelins

[Red_Dog]

Hey guys, I've read thru Manual of Planes/Interwebs and couldn't get a concrete answer.. So here are my three questions. Hopefully anyone knows something about it ^^

Question ONE=>
Bladeling (as described in MMII) has resist fire 5 as his natural trait.
Can said Bladeling live without spontaneously combusting on a Fire Plane? or do I have to implement some sort of trick in order to prevent said combustion? (like making him half-elemental(MoP), elemental (MoP) or be constantly enchanted by resistance spells somehow, or some item I don't know about that doesn't cost a bleeding fortune)?

Question TWO(multiple parts)=>
If I am to use a feat from DotU called Tormtor School that lets you

If you deal damage on a melee attack with a javelin,
you can then throw that javelin at any other target within 30
feet as a swift action (using your highest base ranged attack
bonus). Do this.

Can this throughing attack be implemented after first successful hit (at highest BAB) and than still finish full attack action by making the rest of attacks that BAB allows?

Will this swift action attack provoke attack of opportunity from person I am in combat with(shooting in combat)?

Will this attack provoke AoO from a person I shoot at if he is next to me too?(description specifies OTHER target)

Question Three=>
If I select brutal throw as a feat (use STR for throwing weapon attacks) for a rank & file Bladeling and than give him Tower Shield. Would this (by RAW I do not see why not) allow him to use Tower Shield in one hand and Javelin in another, so he can throw Javelins without any penalties(besides standard -2 per Tower Shield) and Fight with them in HtH(as per Tormtor School feat)? I see no reason why this interesting concept can't be done. Does anyone?
*Indecently, I have NEVER used tower shields for anything, what are some good CHEAP enchantments besides +X on armor)*

So... what are the verdicts good Sirs & Laddies? ^^

[bloodtide]

Question ONE=>
Bladeling (as described in MMII) has resist fire 5 as his natural trait.
Can said Bladeling live without spontaneously combusting on a Fire Plane? or do I have to implement some sort of trick in order to prevent said combustion? (like making him half-elemental(MoP), elemental (MoP) or be constantly enchanted by resistance spells somehow, or some item I don't know about that doesn't cost a bleeding fortune)?

No, the bladeling's resist fire won't do much on a fire plane. To put it simply, they are not fire creatures. I can't think of a 'cheep' way to do this.




Question TWO(multiple parts)=>
If I am to use a feat from DotU called Tormtor School that lets you
Do this.

Can this throughing attack be implemented after first successful hit (at highest BAB) and than still finish full attack action by making the rest of attacks that BAB allows?

Will this swift action attack provoke attack of opportunity from person I am in combat with(shooting in combat)?

Will this attack provoke AoO from a person I shoot at if he is next to me too?(description specifies OTHER target)

1.The feat simply says 'if you deal damage', so you can throw the javelin at any time after you meet that requirement.

2.By the rules making a ranged attack in melee you would provoke an AoO. The feat says nothing to counter this.

3.Yes.



Question Three=>
If I select brutal throw as a feat (use STR for throwing weapon attacks) for a rank & file Bladeling and than give him Tower Shield. Would this (by RAW I do not see why not) allow him to use Tower Shield in one hand and Javelin in another, so he can throw Javelins without any penalties(besides standard -2 per Tower Shield) and Fight with them in HtH(as per Tormtor School feat)? I see no reason why this interesting concept can't be done. Does anyone?
*Indecently, I have NEVER used tower shields for anything, what are some good CHEAP enchantments besides +X on armor)*

Sure?

[Red_Dog]

No, the bladeling's resist fire won't do much on a fire plane. To put it simply, they are not fire creatures. I can't think of a 'cheep' way to do this.


Ok, and I am guessing endure elements does nothing to protect someone?
Resist energy seems inapplicable... as while The faction has clerics, they are few (around 10, for around 500 troops)


1.The feat simply says 'if you deal damage', so you can throw the javelin at any time after you meet that requirement.

2.By the rules making a ranged attack in melee you would provoke an AoO. The feat says nothing to counter this.

3.Yes.
Cool over all. Best thing about this is that Master Thrower gives a really cool trick to throw weapons without AoOs by passing very simple Concentration check (Throwing trick).

Ok I suppose we are defaulting to a question=> How does one make an army live in Plane of Fire with minimal expenses...

Thanks, hope to hear this answer as I guess its a serious question ^^.

Thanks in advance all ^^

[TroubleBrewing]

The Plane of Fire deals 3d10 fire damage/round, so the only real way to survive is immunity to fire, or Fire Resistance 30. Or Fire Resistance 30-X, where X is the amount of Fast Healing you possess.

[Mystify]

The fire plane deals 3D10 fire damage, so you would need resist 30 to be completely immune.

The avoid planar effects spell would provide protection from it, but uts duration is only 1 minute per level.

However, its only a 2nd level cleric spell, and hence you only need a caster level of 3 to use it. So 2*3*2000 = 12000go for an item that continually produces the avoid planer effects spell. That would effectively create a 20ft zone around the object in which you would have the spell cast on you. You could then leave the area for 3 minutes before the effect wears off. This is the cheapest method I can think of offhand.

You would need an 11th level caster for protection from energy strong enough to work, and that would only shield 1 person for a couple hours.

Other options would be half-fire elemental for a +3 LA, half dragon (with a fire typed dragon, of course) for a +2 LA, Magma or steam elemental creature for LA +1, or fire souled for a +1 LA.

[Red_Dog]

fire souled for a +1 LA. / Magma or steam elemental creature for LA +1

Never heard these ones... What book are these from?
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To Mystify
So Basically a 12k ring will solve this issue than? ^^

Good Sir, so far I think... that you have provided me THE BEST solution ever! = ] Thank you, Thank you! ^^ Expected Wealth by lvl8 is 27k. so 12k expense per person is not a huge hit. remaining 15k cover +2str item & +2Tower shield and going a bit over even Psychoactive Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor & some master worked Weapons. ^^
And this will fit perfectly with "plane traveling Mercs" idea. This would be the first thing they would invest in anyway.

==============================>

Ok, and I am guessing endure elements does nothing to protect someone?
I'll take this^ as confirmed than? Makes me wonder what environments does it protect from... Just deserts and what not? (higher versions do help from stuff like negative/positive plane)
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P.S. Again I guess another bonus question that relates to the army.

Would Introducing a relic that was mass produced would be terribly broken wouldn't it? The relic is minor (Gloves of Endless Javelins). The only reason I want to do this is because the very first Relic in MiC (armor of a watching master) was apparently mas produced for the order of the Paladins that discovered it.
So the basic reason in my mind was => done once, can be done again. Plus since this army traveled thru some planes it could be very good idea for them to pick up and mass produce this.

[Mystify]

Fire-souled is in dragon magazine 314
The magma and steam elementals are in dragon 347.

And you misunderstood what I said about the magic item. Its not 12k per person. You can get a lot of people operating under the effect of one item. If you really wanted to max it out, you could get 44 people under the effect of 1 item, walking around in the 20-ft burst pattern.

Of course, that makes you a PERFECT target for a fireball spell. While on the plane of fire. So its probably not a good idea to take it that far, but its far cheaper than 12k/per person.

Edit: Looking at the MiC, gloves of endless javelins are not relics, they are just a 7k magic item. They are a part of a set, though, which only slightly complicates things. The item sets are priced normally, so that is the proper price for that effect, and hence there isn't any real reason you couldn't produce those items en mass. Whether they would count as part of the set is more questionable, but I don't think you care about that.

[kardar233]

I believe there's a Savage Species ritual that gives you an elemental subtype. Apply it to the creatures in question to make them [fire] type and thus immune to fire.

[Red_Dog]

Fire-souled is in dragon magazine 314
The magma and steam elementals are in dragon 347.
I didn't allow dragon mag, and your solution has already solved that EXTREMELY annoying issue ^^ But thx for sourcing of course! ^^

Oh and I got the 20ft circle idea, that's just not too valuable in "encampment mode". May be ok in battles of rank-n-file. But 12k as I said isn't a horrific financial hit. It makes sense for them to have these anyways, as in past 20 some years they would be able to visit several planes and have a richer "biography" so to speak ^^.

Speaking of Endless Javelins, I might do it. With the build I have in mind they will have quick draw(from Master Thrower). So having Gloves and some odd 5 master-worked Javelins, a spear or two and a short sword, they can cycle without being unarmed on their turn. Hmmm... If the gloves are appropriately priced as you said, than I guess there isn't too much issues with Mass production. It will give army quite a room for reliability (supplies are important in campaign, not needing track loads of Javelins help enormously). As outsiders they also don't "need" to eat. ...I do absolutely love this item after all^^

Thanks man, this is very helpful ^^ I might post a build a bit later if you would want to take a stab at it.

to kardar233
Yep, found it, but its hella pricy. Could give them motivation for travel... But so far "we worship the God of Travel" is good enough I guess ^^

[Mystify]

I didn't allow dragon mag, and your solution has already solved that EXTREMELY annoying issue ^^ But thx for sourcing of course! ^^

Oh and I got the 20ft circle idea, that's just not too valuable in "encampment mode". May be ok in battles of rank-n-file. But 12k as I said isn't a horrific financial hit. It makes sense for them to have these anyways, as in past 20 some years they would be able to visit several planes and have a richer "biography" so to speak ^^.

Speaking of Endless Javelins, I might do it. With the build I have in mind they will have quick draw(from Master Thrower). So having Gloves and some odd 5 master-worked Javelins, a spear or two and a short sword, they can cycle without being unarmed on their turn. Hmmm... If the gloves are appropriately priced as you said, than I guess there isn't too much issues with Mass production. It will give army quite a room for reliability (supplies are important in campaign, not needing track loads of Javelins help enormously). As outsiders they also don't "need" to eat. ...I do absolutely love this item after all^^

Thanks man, this is very helpful ^^ I might post a build a bit later if you would want to take a stab at it.

to kardar233
Yep, found it, but its hella pricy. Could give them motivation for travel... But so far "we worship the God of Travel" is good enough I guess ^^
I think they are even more useful for encampments. You can easily set up the items arranged so that they cover places whether people gather or sleep. You still have a few minutes outside of the area, so you don't need 100% coverage of your camp. Even if you did, achieving 100% coverage would still be far cheaper than giving everyone a ring. While out in combat, a squad can carry one and move around under its effects. During an encounter, you can move freely since the effect lasts for a few minutes after you leave, plenty of time for an encounter. If you are sending out individual scouts they may need individual rings, but sinking fully half your WBL into these rings will cripple your firepower. 12k can easily be an extra 5 or more AC, for instance, if you invest it properly.

[Red_Dog]

Hmmm... may be I can try to reduce the costs. But it will probably just poor in their "diamond fond" [for resurrection, clerics have raise Outsider, & some house rules about ressing are in place].

I might try to reduce their wealth this way. We'll see.

Btw on armor I think they are covered => +2Dex, +4NA, +8Psycoative Skin of Ectoplasmic armor, +6[+2 Tower Shield] = 30 AC. I thought thats pretty bloody solid for a 8th level Rank-n-File. All this costs 10k. Not too bad IMO ^^. Also, for added bonus, shield can accept a crystal of Arrow Deflection for added +5AC vs ranged attack. That costs 2.5k though.

I never actually saw that Psychoactive skin before and I have to say=> as a side note, it's a Barbarian's wet dream ^^. +8AC and treated as LA for only 6k. Seems like an awesome early item to me ^^. A mithril breast plate is better in a longer run I guess, but cost for it rises. It will penalize Jumps, but hell, the Str mod is thru the roof anyway so who cares by the most part? ^^

Damn I really should post a whole army in its own thread. I just have the damn leaders to stat and that's always long and annoying. >_>

Anyways, thx guys! You have definitively helped a lot! ^^

[Mystify]

Hmmm... may be I can try to reduce the costs. But it will probably just poor in their "diamond fond" [for resurrection, clerics have raise Outsider, & some house rules about ressing are in place].

I might try to reduce their wealth this way. We'll see.

Btw on armor I think they are covered => +2Dex, +4NA, +8Psycoative Skin of Ectoplasmic armor, +6[+2 Tower Shield] = 30 AC. I thought thats pretty bloody solid for a 8th level Rank-n-File. All this costs 10k. Not too bad IMO ^^. Also, for added bonus, shield can accept a crystal of Arrow Deflection for added +5AC vs ranged attack. That costs 2.5k though.

I never actually saw that Psychoactive skin before and I have to say=> as a side note, it's a Barbarian's wet dream ^^. +8AC and treated as LA for only 6k. Seems like an awesome early item to me ^^. A mithril breast plate is better in a longer run I guess, but cost for it rises. It will penalize Jumps, but hell, the Str mod is thru the roof anyway so who cares by the most part? ^^

Damn I really should post a whole army in its own thread. I just have the damn leaders to stat and that's always long and annoying. >_>

Anyways, thx guys! You have definitively helped a lot! ^^

You should throw in a ring of deflection. The more you spread out the costs, the more cost effective it is.