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View Full Version : How did the MitD know that Tsukiko only had half a ritual?



Shreav
2012-01-24, 09:00 AM
Apologies for asking about a really old comic, but the latest update sent me back and prompted the question.

We just had officially confirmed in the online comic (#830 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html)) that Redcloak has been deceiving Xykon: the ritual to control the Snarl actually has an arcane section that, rather than granting control of the Snarl itself, would move the gate to the plane of the Gods and grant control of the gate (not the Snarl) to the Dark One (frankly, how anything could control the Snarl is beyond me).

Before being eaten, Tsukiko got this information out of RC by demonstrating that she knew that the ritual had an arcane half. That sent me back to #700 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html) where Tsukiko first realised this. But if you read it carefully, it's actually the MitD that told her that it was half a ritual.

So my question is ... how did the MitD know, especially given that Xykon doesn't?

I've not read SoD, so I don't know if this is covered in there. Can anybody shed any light?

Kish
2012-01-24, 09:01 AM
Because of what he is.

And that is all we know on the subject; we do not yet know what he is.

Peelee
2012-01-24, 01:14 PM
Because of what he is.

And that is all we know on the subject; we do not yet know what he is.

Agreed. Probably a ridiculous number of ranks/bonuses in spellcraft, that he knew it without realizing its significance, or something like that. Won't really know until we know what he is

Xapi
2012-01-24, 01:18 PM
Apologies for asking about a really old comic, but the latest update sent me back and prompted the question.

We just had officially confirmed in the online comic (#830 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html)) that Redcloak has been deceiving Xykon: the ritual to control the Snarl actually has an arcane section that, rather than granting control of the Snarl itself, would move the gate to the plane of the Gods and grant control of the gate (not the Snarl) to the Dark One (frankly, how anything could control the Snarl is beyond me).

Before being eaten, Tsukiko got this information out of RC by demonstrating that she knew that the ritual had an arcane half. That sent me back to #700 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html) where Tsukiko first realised this. But if you read it carefully, it's actually the MitD that told her that it was half a ritual.

So my question is ... how did the MitD know, especially given that Xykon doesn't?

I've not read SoD, so I don't know if this is covered in there. Can anybody shed any light?

FYI, with the info given in #830, reading SoD would not give you more info on the ritual, IIRC. It would, however, give you a great story that kicks ass, but that's about it.

pita
2012-01-24, 04:30 PM
Also, those of us who have read SOD knew Redcloak was cheating Xykon all along. Additionally, we know the story behind "wrong-eye".
So you should join the club.

Ksyr
2012-01-24, 04:46 PM
Xykon don't know? RC told him in SOD that it's half arcane and half divine. Does anyone remember a strip where RC tells xykon the script contains the entire spell. Wouldn't it be natural to write out only the arcane part for the arcane caster?

veti
2012-01-24, 05:25 PM
As a Great Old One (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu_Mythos_deities)*, the MitD instinctively knows everything there is to be known about interplanar travel, summoning and gates.

That's also why he never recognised Dorukan's Gate. From his point of view, everything is a gate. Nothing can stop him from stepping into any plane he wants, any time he wants, except for the fact that it doesn't occur to him.

* No, of course I don't know. But it's as good a guess as any I've seen yet.

toughluck
2012-01-24, 05:33 PM
Frankly, I always though MitD didn't know anything about the ritual, he just threw a childish tantrum when leaving the the room and accidentally tipped her off.

He did say 'your stupid half of a ritual', not 'the' or 'that' -- this at least means he's not referring to any specific ritual, just a stupid piece of paper.

When you say to someone: 'you gotta have half of a brain to be that stupid', it doesn't usually mean you've got keen anatomic insight to know the person has only half of a brain -- you don't mean it literally. I figured MitD didn't literally refer to the half as anything else than denigrating it and throwing a fit over Tsukiko's lack of interest in helping with what he thinks is more important.

homeslice
2012-01-24, 05:39 PM
Because of what he is.

And that is all we know on the subject; we do not yet know what he is.

I'm going to go with this explanation right here. Something about what he is probably contributed to his understanding.

Dr.Epic
2012-01-24, 11:17 PM
The MitD didn't. He just said something unrelated that triggered Tsukiko to realize that it was only half.

Steward
2012-01-25, 12:11 AM
The MitD didn't. He just said something unrelated that triggered Tsukiko to realize that it was only half.

Er... didn't he literally say, "Read your stupid half of a ritual."? He must have known it was half before Tsukiko did, or else he wouldn't have described it as a 'half ritual', right?

Porthos
2012-01-25, 12:16 AM
Er... didn't he literally say, "Read your stupid half of a ritual."?

Word for word, as a matter of fact. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html)

And Tsukiko never even hinted that it took two people to cast it. All she said is that "Xykon asked me to learn this way complicated magical ritual".

Steward
2012-01-25, 12:27 AM
I'm going to go with this explanation right here. Something about what he is probably contributed to his understanding.

Me too. We already know he has some kind of supernatural force.


Word for word, as a matter of fact.

Yeah, ha ha that was in the OP. I must have read it like six times trying to figure out if I'd gotten the word balloons flipped or misinterpreted the sentence or something!

MrThurk
2012-01-25, 02:52 AM
FYI, with the info given in #830, reading SoD would not give you more info on the ritual, IIRC. It would, however, give you a great story that kicks ass, but that's about it.

SoD does tell who created the ritual and why, and leads to a greater understanding of Redcloak's motives.

Alienist
2012-01-25, 02:54 AM
I'm going to go with this explanation right here. Something about what he is probably contributed to his understanding.

The Epic Monster Prismatic Dragon ticks *every* box (Wish, Greater Teleport, high str, unusual environment, liking the light beams and wanting more, being both ugly and beautiful at the same time yada yada), including this new one, since it has Gate.

The only thing it falls a little short on (compared to all the other candidates which have multiple gaping holes) is the strength calculation to flick Miko and the horse through the wall.

I chalk that up to Rich using a little bit of 'cinematic licence' with the whole flying through the air thing, I think there have been other examples of 'hollywood physics' for the purpose of drama, so it doesn't bother me.

The CR of even a juvenile Prismatic Dragon is big enough to justify as a 'big reveal' way back when we first encountered him.

Having dragged him all the way around the continent for 500+ strips, it wouldn't surprise me if he was Young Adult, which is enough for 17th Sorcerer casting... I could easily believe that somewhere along the way he's ticked over into 18th and picked up the 9th level spells.

Adama
2012-01-25, 02:02 PM
Because of what he is.

And that is all we know on the subject; we do not yet know what he is.

Precisely. Although we have had hints that he has some kind of almost idiot-savant capabilities when it comes to magic. Possibly that he's some kind of highly magical creature which isn't normally intelligent enough to talk or reason, but he's an exception.

Kish
2012-01-25, 02:19 PM
The Epic Monster Prismatic Dragon ticks *every* box (Wish, Greater Teleport, high str, unusual environment, liking the light beams and wanting more, being both ugly and beautiful at the same time yada yada), including this new one, since it has Gate.

The only thing it falls a little short on (compared to all the other candidates which have multiple gaping holes) is the strength calculation to flick Miko and the horse through the wall.
Also too big.

And the description of the prismatic dragon sounds just beautiful to me, not "ugly and beautiful at the same time."

Porthos
2012-01-25, 03:31 PM
The Epic Monster Prismatic Dragon ticks *every* box (Wish, Greater Teleport, high str, unusual environment, liking the light beams and wanting more, being both ugly and beautiful at the same time yada yada), including this new one, since it has Gate.

The only thing it falls a little short on (compared to all the other candidates which have multiple gaping holes) is the strength calculation to flick Miko and the horse through the wall.


Also too big.

And the description of the prismatic dragon sounds just beautiful to me, not "ugly and beautiful at the same time."

Presumably Alienist is referring to Frightful Presence, but that sounds like a bit of a stretch.

"Good Lord, it can speak!" might be a bit of a problem as well. Though I suppose they could have been referring to Common instead of Draconic.

Maybe Alienist can bring up this idea in the main MitD thread and see if it sinks or swims.

Kish
2012-01-25, 03:40 PM
Was brought up a long, long time ago, in the very first version of that thread. And don't get me wrong, I still think it's one of the better ideas we've seen (albeit not a patch on the white slaad).

Still...too big.

Porthos
2012-01-25, 03:42 PM
Still...too big.

Thinking about it, I agree. But. Well.

Redcloak and Celia might have a thing or two to say about size categories in OotSWorld. :smallwink:

But, yeah, you're probably right.