TheOtherSidhe
2012-01-24, 01:19 PM
Pun intended.
Anyway, let's talk Enchantment. Specifically, the Charm line and Suggestion spell, and more specifically their limits and potential applications. I've been interested in these spells for a while, as both a DM and a player, but their descriptions are pretty vague, so I'm not clear on how exactly they work or what you can do with them.
For instance, the Player's Handbook description for Charm Person says that the target's attitude is Friendly, and defines that as being willing to "chat, advise, offer limited help, [or] advocate." The example given is holding off an angry dragon. Even if you don't consider that a suicidal action, doing that more clearly falls under the given attitude of Helpful, defined as willing to "protect, back up, heal, [or] aid" you.
So my question here comes down to, how far does it go? I notice that the dragon line is missing from the SRD, instead saying that target might be convinced that a dangerous task is worth doing, but that again falls more under Helpful than Friendly. What are the limits of what you can ask, or even order, someone to do? Can you, for instance, Charm an attacker, then ask/order him to grapple a second attacker without harming him? Convince someone to go on an adventure with you?
Then Suggestion. Even more vague, and with more confusing examples. The first is suggesting that a pool of acid is actually clear water, which seems to imply that target will believe anything you say, making Bluff unnecessary, while the example of convincing a Red Dragon to join you in a treasure hunt stretches the "reasonable" limitation given. Again, can this be used to turn allies against each other or similar? While I was half joking with Charm, the dragon example does imply you can suggest that someone should go on an adventure with you for the better part of a day. Further, the description of a different spell, Illusory Script, says that a possible suggestion is to completely forget the existence of an object.
Seems a little powerful for a 3rd level spell to me, so I'm again asking what limits you usually use, and how you handle these spells in game. It seems to depend on interpretation mostly, so I'll take anything you guys have. I love stories on creative spell use, too, so you're welcome to give an account or tactic you enjoy.
Anyway, let's talk Enchantment. Specifically, the Charm line and Suggestion spell, and more specifically their limits and potential applications. I've been interested in these spells for a while, as both a DM and a player, but their descriptions are pretty vague, so I'm not clear on how exactly they work or what you can do with them.
For instance, the Player's Handbook description for Charm Person says that the target's attitude is Friendly, and defines that as being willing to "chat, advise, offer limited help, [or] advocate." The example given is holding off an angry dragon. Even if you don't consider that a suicidal action, doing that more clearly falls under the given attitude of Helpful, defined as willing to "protect, back up, heal, [or] aid" you.
So my question here comes down to, how far does it go? I notice that the dragon line is missing from the SRD, instead saying that target might be convinced that a dangerous task is worth doing, but that again falls more under Helpful than Friendly. What are the limits of what you can ask, or even order, someone to do? Can you, for instance, Charm an attacker, then ask/order him to grapple a second attacker without harming him? Convince someone to go on an adventure with you?
Then Suggestion. Even more vague, and with more confusing examples. The first is suggesting that a pool of acid is actually clear water, which seems to imply that target will believe anything you say, making Bluff unnecessary, while the example of convincing a Red Dragon to join you in a treasure hunt stretches the "reasonable" limitation given. Again, can this be used to turn allies against each other or similar? While I was half joking with Charm, the dragon example does imply you can suggest that someone should go on an adventure with you for the better part of a day. Further, the description of a different spell, Illusory Script, says that a possible suggestion is to completely forget the existence of an object.
Seems a little powerful for a 3rd level spell to me, so I'm again asking what limits you usually use, and how you handle these spells in game. It seems to depend on interpretation mostly, so I'll take anything you guys have. I love stories on creative spell use, too, so you're welcome to give an account or tactic you enjoy.