E6 version of Toughness - PEACH

[SpaceBadger]

Working on some of my E6 campaign stuff last night (we aren't playing yet, but are going to try an adventure or two and then decide if we want to switch our whole campaign to E6), I had an idea for a Toughness feat that wouldn't suck.

Toughness
You have enhanced physical stamina.
Benefit: For every level, you gain bonus hit points equal to your new level. If this feat is taken at a level higher than first, its effect is retroactive.

So at first level you get one bonus HP. At second level you get two more bonus HP. Etc. Since E6 only goes up to sixth level (at which this feat gives six bonus HP, for a total of 1+2+3+4+5+6=21 bonus HP spread out over six levels), I think the bonus is meaningful at each level, without getting too far out of hand at the highest.

I made it retroactive because I rarely go to the trouble of figuring out when an NPC acquired each feat he has, and would therefore just apply it to however many levels the NPC has, and I figure PCs should get the same advantage.

I think it passes the new feat test of "Would anyone ever take this feat?" because I think the answer would be Yes. What about the new feat test of "Would everyone take this feat?" Is it too good?

[Eldest]

In E6, where feats are cheap, and you stop getting more health after level 6, this is pretty dang strong in the late game. Not as strong as some things (cough*metamagic*cough), but it's a good idea.

[SpaceBadger]

Hmm, yeah, I guess this might be one that everyone would take at some point after level six for a sudden boost of 21 HP.

Fixes? Say you can only take this feat during your first six levels of advancement? Or would everyone just grab it at level six for a 21 HP boost?

[Eldest]

Split the idea into two:
Toughness
You gain two HP per class level you have (minimum 3).

Epic Toughness [E6 Epic]
You gain six times your constitution HP.

Two random ideas. If you want to read other E6 stuff, look at Gnorman's stuff, it's in my sig.

[SpaceBadger]

I've read Gnorman's E6 Classes - great stuff, his structure inspired the way I'm doing my PF E6 Classes. I haven't read any deeper in his thread, bc I thought he updated all the stuff to the first page of posts. Is there more stuff deeper in the thread? Rules etc in addition to the classes?

Edit: Yes, I like your idea of splitting the Toughness feat.

[SpaceBadger]

Toughness
You gain two HP per class level you have (minimum 3).

Kinda like Toughness per RAW, but better. 3 HP bonus at first level, only 1HP at second level, then 2 HP/level above that?

I like it. I think it passes the test of some would take it, but not every character.


Epic Toughness [E6 Epic]
You gain six times your constitution HP.

Umm, you mean six times Con Modifier, right? Still seems a lot: 24 HP if you have 18 Con.

Maybe something less for the Epic Toughness, but you can take the feat multiple times? How about two plus ConMod, and you can take it multiple times? I haven't actually playtested any E6 yet, would getting 2 to 6 HP be worth a feat above sixth level?

(BTW, is "Epic" the standard usage for special feats only available above sixth level in E6?)

[Eldest]

Right, meant Con modifier. And yeah, might be a bit much. But two+con is not a good epic feat. Maybe somewhere between them?
And Gorman's most updated version of each of the classes are on the class's individual threads. Everything past the first page is discussion.

[SpaceBadger]

OK, for the Epic Toughness, how about 3 or 4 plus Con Mod?

I want some flat amount, not just a Con Mod multiplier, to make it an option for those with Con less than 12 (just not as good an option).

Would 3 to 7 bonus HP, or 4 to 8 bonus HP, be worth an Epic Feat above level six in E6?

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Why don't you just take "improved toughness" from complete warrior and allow it to be taken multiple times?

[SpaceBadger]

Why don't you just take "improved toughness" from complete warrior and allow it to be taken multiple times?

I don't have Complete Warrior. What does that feat do?

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

I don't have Complete Warrior. What does that feat do?
It gives you extra HP equal to your HD.
In E6, it's 6HP

[Eldest]

It gives you extra HP equal to your HD.
In E6, it's 6HP

That was the idea behind the regular toughness feat I wrote. Combining Toughness and Improved Toughness, except a bit better because I still think they aren't that great of feats even together.

[Cieyrin]

That was the idea behind the regular toughness feat I wrote. Combining Toughness and Improved Toughness, except a bit better because I still think they aren't that great of feats even together.

You could just bring back the 3.0 enhanced Toughness feats, Dwarf's, Giant's and Dragon's Toughness, which required your base Fort be at a certain level. They granted 6/9/12 hp for Fort base of +5/+8/+11. Homebrewing them so that they advance the Base save so you can start taking the later ones in Epic if you all you want is more HP seems like a reasonable thing to me.

Let's say a Barbarian 6 takes Dwarf's Toughness as his first Epic feat, since his base Fort is +5. Say they all advance base Fort by +1, so if his first 3 Epic feats are Dwarf's Toughness, he could start taking Giant's Toughness from 4-6 and Dragon's from then on. This gets a bit messier in multiclassing but not overly so, as you'd have to dip 3 Good Fort classes to skip to Giant's and 4 to skip to Dragon's but you suffer from lack of balance in your features, missing out on high level spells or spellcasting at all, among other things, so I don't think it's that big a deal, since it's just HP. I'd just put the Epic tag on Giant's and Dragon's and that should work out fine.

So, basically, they'd be as follows:
Dwarf's Toughness
You are tougher than you were before.
Prerequisites: Base Fort save bonus +5
Benefits: You gain +6 hit points and +1 to your Base Fort save.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times.

Giant's Toughness [Epic]
You are amazingly tough.
Prerequisites: Base Fort save bonus +8
Benefits: You gain +9 hit points and +1 to your Base Fort save.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times.

Dragon's Toughness [Epic]
You are incredibly tough.
Prerequisites: Base Fort save bonus +11
Benefits: You gain +12 hit points and +1 to your Base Fort save.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times.