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Illithilich
2012-01-24, 06:58 PM
So a friend is starting a campaign soon, and I saw a chance to not be the DM for once, so I joined his group. We are starting at level 1, and I chose to be a Dwarf Wizard. As for what the character is like, imagine an unholy trinity of a Vecna worshipping wizard, your crazy dwarven engineer, and a typical Apeture scientist. First, the character:
Urist Copperbeard, Wizard 1
Str 10, Dex 12, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 6.
Feats/Flaws: Scribe Scroll, Lunatic Insight (HoH), Bonus Feat / Inattentive
Skills: Concentration +8(4), Decipher Script +8(4), Knowledge (Arcana) +8(4), Knowledge (Architecture/Engineering) +8(4), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +8(4), Spellcraft +8(4).

So, I need help with 4 things:
1. Selecting a decent feat (for my flaw bonus feat).
2. Selecting a school to specialize in and which to bar (what are good choices?).
3. Spell Selection (I have 7 1st level spells).
4. Possible prestige classes that would fit my character. I know I want to be a lich, but past that I have nothing.

Please help, and thanks in advance.

Vemynal
2012-01-24, 07:06 PM
Good schools to ban:
Enchantment, Evocation and Necromancy (Necromancy only if you need to ban a 3rd)

I know it might seem odd...but with an Aperture science character I imagine a Divination specialist with a banned Enchantment (just because I totally imagine Aperture scientists throwing fireballs at you).

Otherwise the two strongest schools to focus in are Transmutation and Conjuration. But at level 1 your summons will only last for like...1 turn.

As for Prestige classes I think we need to decide what you want to do first off

NNescio
2012-01-24, 07:08 PM
Aperture Science? Definitely specialize in Conjuration, and pick up the Abrupt Jaunt ACF while you're at it. Now you're thinking with portals!

Geigan
2012-01-24, 07:10 PM
Ker-lazy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002)-advice-giving (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873034/Treantmonks_guide_to_Wizards:_Being_a_God).

Conjuration is a fairly good school for pretty much anyone to specialize in, though considering you lich aspirations I might suggest necromancy. Enchantment is typically the number 1 ban, followed closely by evocation though this really depends on your preference.

There are a lot of good feats for wizards but you can't really go wrong with improved initiative.

I might actually suggest a different class since you wanted to become a lich. The simplest way is actually through the dread necromancer(Heroes of Horror pg 84) base class whose capstone is literally, become a lich.

Illithilich
2012-01-24, 07:22 PM
Yeah, I wish I could do DN, but my friend has limited us to just the SRD. The only exception is prestige classes and feats, which we just have to run by him first.

Vemynal
2012-01-24, 09:43 PM
Point of interest; Dread Necro does not make you a Lich as its capstone. Wizards of the Coast even clarifies it.

That said, I've totally talked my DM into giving it to me anyways before. But I had to trade out my hit dice for levels 17, 18, 19 and 20 (he overlapped DN with the Lich savage species class for those levels).

Gotta admit, the Abrupt Jaunt ACF would definitely fit the portal theme

Tr011
2012-01-24, 10:46 PM
Urist Copperbeard, Wizard 1
Str 10, Dex 12, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 6.
Feats/Flaws: Scribe Scroll, Lunatic Insight (HoH), Bonus Feat / Inattentive
Skills: Concentration +8(4), Decipher Script +8(4), Knowledge (Arcana) +8(4), Knowledge (Architecture/Engineering) +8(4), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +8(4), Spellcraft +8(4).

So, I need help with 4 things:
1. Selecting a decent feat (for my flaw bonus feat).
2. Selecting a school to specialize in and which to bar (what are good choices?).
3. Spell Selection (I have 7 1st level spells).
4. Possible prestige classes that would fit my character. I know I want to be a lich, but past that I have nothing.

Please help, and thanks in advance.

We need some more information first:
1. Do you like only controlling or do you want some AoEs here and there?
2. Do you like to go metamagic cheese or not?
3. What books are allowed?
4. Are you a familiar-guy or not? Familiars are awesome if you know how to use them and better than anything you can trade them for. But I also know some people that have a familiar and do not use them at all. This seems like a waste to me, they should have used some ACFs.
5. What does your party play? You don't need to learn Haste if you got a sorcerer who spams it all day i.e.

You should either go the Domain variant (Unearthed Arcana), go Diviner (ban only one school) or go Conjurer, use the ACF from UA(?) for immediate magic (if you dislike using a familiar).
Feats could be:
1. Spell Mastery + Uncanny Forethought (ask your DM if you are allowed to later trade the spells because it sucks to have Spell Mastery bound only to lvl1 spells)
2. Improved Initiative instead of Scribe Scroll (using the Fighter Wizard ACF from Unearthed Arcana)
3. Alacritous Cogitation is nice if that Spell Mastery thing doesn't work and/or you don't like using up two feats.
4. Ability Enhancer from Dragon Compendium is pretty useful with the right spells.
5. School Focus(Transmutation or Conjuration) as a PreReq for some PrCs like Master Specialist.

Spells could be: Grease, Glitterdust, Enlarge Person, Identify, Treacherous Weapon (from ExEv), Blockade (from Complete Scoundrel), Sleep, Magic Missle, lesser Orb of Sound (SpC), Bening Transposition (SpC), Truestrike, Nerveskitter (SpC), Shock and Awe (SpC, for sneaky parties), Mage Armor, Alarm, Wall of Smoke (SpC), Mount (seriously a nice spell for early levels).

NiteCyper
2012-01-25, 01:45 AM
Salvage low-level Wizard build advice from archerpwr's low-level Wizard (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75894/19951010/Planescape_-_The_Great_Modron_March_I:_Out_of_Time&post_num=4#340628146), such as the Sculpt Spell feat in Complete Arcane (page 83).
The Walker in the Waste PrC in Sandstorm (page 89-94) turns you into a (dry) lich as its capstone ability, but it requires divine casting.

Endarire
2012-01-25, 04:55 AM
A crazy Dwarven engineer deserves more INT (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030926a) and grappling capacity (http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=13119)!

Extra props if you can add the Races of Fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfFire) stats to your INT Dwarf. (Fire race stats are +2 INT, -2 CHA, and other minor abilities.)

Rubik
2012-01-25, 06:54 PM
4. Are you a familiar-guy or not? Familiars are awesome if you know how to use them and better than anything you can trade them for. But I also know some people that have a familiar and do not use them at all. This seems like a waste to me, they should have used some ACFs.None of the ACFs die really easily and screw you over for an entire year when they do. I'd rather have an ACF 100% of the time.

Tr011
2012-01-25, 07:40 PM
Depending on metagaming and stuff, you have to care more or less for the life of your familiar. Ofc. But you can share spells like (Greater) Mage Armor that you should use anyway. Especially at higher levels the life of your familiar isn't in danger anymore when you can give him a found Cloak of Resistance +2 and stuff like that. Spells that target your familiar are most likely spells that else would have targeted you. You got some ways to protect yourself, mostly spells and those work for your familiar as well.
If your familiar somehow manages to die but you don't you should use an item of revivify (5th level spell, Miniatures Handbook IIRC) that you will need anyways to guarantee your parties survival. Reviving via high level spells could also be an option, but costs a lot, but usually things that kill your familiar would have killed you, too.

And if you manage to have your familiar around and it doesn't die, you got some profit:
+2 to almost any skill check out of combat via aid another.
+3 or more to skill checks you got much ranks in (see Complete Adventurer for that rule)
additional in-combat actions (to make them useful you should use a combination of Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability, eternal wands and maybe stuff to UMD if skilled), i.e. your familiar can make a readied action "when someone except our party members casts at us, charges us, ranged attacks us or comes in melee: Blockade (Complete Scoundrel 1st lvl spell)"
Sometimes you can even have fun via incombat shorttime buffs in combination with ImbueFwSA: My Unseen Seer used to buff himself swift some d6 sneak attack, cast Orb of Fire, share the buff and let the familiar cast Acid Splash (for SA, too). Or you can do stuff like: Truestrike (familiar dimensional anchor) next round you disintegrate.

A familiar gives more options than you could possibly think of, while an ACF gives only one option. If you like to have one solid option without drawbacks, use an ACF. If you like making strange moves that no one thought of before - keep the familiar.

Rubik
2012-01-25, 08:04 PM
Depending on metagaming and stuff, you have to care more or less for the life of your familiar. Ofc. But you can share spells like (Greater) Mage Armor that you should use anyway. Especially at higher levels the life of your familiar isn't in danger anymore when you can give him a found Cloak of Resistance +2 and stuff like that. Spells that target your familiar are most likely spells that else would have targeted you. You got some ways to protect yourself, mostly spells and those work for your familiar as well.
If your familiar somehow manages to die but you don't you should use an item of revivify (5th level spell, Miniatures Handbook IIRC) that you will need anyways to guarantee your parties survival. Reviving via high level spells could also be an option, but costs a lot, but usually things that kill your familiar would have killed you, too.

And if you manage to have your familiar around and it doesn't die, you got some profit:
+2 to almost any skill check out of combat via aid another.
+3 or more to skill checks you got much ranks in (see Complete Adventurer for that rule)
additional in-combat actions (to make them useful you should use a combination of Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability, eternal wands and maybe stuff to UMD if skilled), i.e. your familiar can make a readied action "when someone except our party members casts at us, charges us, ranged attacks us or comes in melee: Blockade (Complete Scoundrel 1st lvl spell)"
Sometimes you can even have fun via incombat shorttime buffs in combination with ImbueFwSA: My Unseen Seer used to buff himself swift some d6 sneak attack, cast Orb of Fire, share the buff and let the familiar cast Acid Splash (for SA, too). Or you can do stuff like: Truestrike (familiar dimensional anchor) next round you disintegrate.

A familiar gives more options than you could possibly think of, while an ACF gives only one option. If you like to have one solid option without drawbacks, use an ACF. If you like making strange moves that no one thought of before - keep the familiar.Actually, there's one time that I would consider taking a familiar -- if it can talk and I wanted to use the Tinfoil Hat's command word for on-the-spot cover, and magic items with command words so it can improve your action economy, but even then it's very iffy.

And every caster should care about his familiar, for his own sake if nothing else. You lose so much if it dies that you'd best keep it locked in a familiar pocket if you're not actively using it. Who wants those kinds of penalties for having a class feature die to a lucky shot?

Though with the Obtain Familiar feat you should be able to get a new one pretty easily, since you don't lose the benefit of the feat since you still have the feat. Same thing with Psicrystal Affinity and Wild Cohort (though that last one is explicit in getting a new animal companion back, and it's easy-peasy).

Tr011
2012-01-25, 08:23 PM
At higher levels death is just about spending almost 30k gp. Even for your familiar. Btw any familiar can talk (you need 5 class levels that count for your familiar, cast tongues, pay an NPC to cast permanency and there you go. Or for budged: use that pearl of speech for 600gp).
That trick with Blockade I wrote is btw basically the same thing as the tinfoil's hat but doesn't use up as many ressources...

Rubik
2012-01-25, 09:41 PM
At higher levels death is just about spending almost 30k gp. Even for your familiar.Thing is, you don't get the XP back when your familiar comes back to you. I really don't feel like losing a ton of XP for no good reason. Do you? Also, 30k gp is...expensive, especially before level 15.


That trick with Blockade I wrote is btw basically the same thing as the tinfoil's hat but doesn't use up as many ressources...The tinfoil hat trick costs one low-level spell-slot (Shrink Item) and about 3 cp in wood.

Not exactly cost-prohibitive, even at earlier levels.

Suddo
2012-01-25, 10:45 PM
ACF fighter feat from Unearthed Arcana get Improved Iniative, and try and Prestige out quick so you don't have dead wizard levels. Unless you really like scribing scrolls, its okay but you can always buy them and not waste XP.
Conjuration Specialist Banning Enchantment & Evocation
ACF Abrupt Jaunt from PHB2
Feat is Cloudy Conjuration (Complete Mage pg 40)

I think that is all.

So questions that remain for me are:
How crazy optimized and cheesy do you want this to be?
Optimized but little to no cheese. And no obscure things.
Optimized and obscure things but little to no cheese.
or
MAX POWER!

Also what is obscure and what is not for you? I consider Militia obscure (a region feat) but some only consider Online and Dragon Mag to be obscure.

Oh and what do you want to do.

Edit: Oh and wow at Aleithian. Just wow.

Tr011
2012-01-26, 02:52 AM
Thing is, you don't get the XP back when your familiar comes back to you. I really don't feel like losing a ton of XP for no good reason. Do you? Also, 30k gp is...expensive, especially before level 15.

The tinfoil hat trick costs one low-level spell-slot (Shrink Item) and about 3 cp in wood.

Not exactly cost-prohibitive, even at earlier levels.

Come on, try that Revivify from Mini. It's so low level that it costs like nothing and you don't loose XP because your familiar doesn't really die. And there are not so much spells/effects that kill your familiar but wouldn't have killed you.

NiteCyper
2012-01-26, 05:25 PM
Extra props if you can add the Races of Fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfFire) stats to your INT Dwarf. (Fire race stats are +2 INT, -2 CHA, and other minor abilities.)

No, Fire race stats (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#generalTraitsOfFireRac es) are:

+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against creatures of the water subtype, including extraplanar creatures from the Elemental Plane of Water.
-2 penalty on all saving throws against spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities with the water or cold subtype or used by creatures of the water or cold subtype, including extraplanar creatures from the Elemental Plane of Water.
Resistance to fire 5.

Never heard of "crazy dwarven engineering", but heard of gnomish: Tinker GnomesDLCS.

Rubik
2012-01-26, 05:46 PM
Come on, try that Revivify from Mini. It's so low level that it costs like nothing and you don't loose XP because your familiar doesn't really die. And there are not so much spells/effects that kill your familiar but wouldn't have killed you.Your familiar dies as soon as it hits -10 hp (or 0, if it's a construct or undead). Just because the soul (or whatever) hasn't left the body yet doesn't mean the body isn't dead.

Though do note that technically (at least, according to the SRD) only sorcerers get shafted (as per usual); wizards are fine.


If the familiar dies or is dismissed by the sorcerer, the sorcerer must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude saving throw. Failure means he loses 200 experience points per sorcerer level; success reduces the loss to one-half that amount. However, a sorcerer’s experience point total can never go below 0 as the result of a familiar’s demise or dismissal. A slain or dismissed familiar cannot be replaced for a year and day. A slain familiar can be raised from the dead just as a character can be, and it does not lose a level or a Constitution point when this happy event occurs.