How thoroughly do you plan your characters?

[danzibr]

Many level 20 builds you see just give the order in which you take classes. Some even tell you a few feats to take. I was wondering when you make your own character how thoroughly do you plan it out? For example, here's a recently finished product of mine:
Stats:
Str 16 = 8 + 8 (10 pts)
Dex 14 = 8 + 6 (6 pts)
Con 16 = 8 + 8 (10 pts)
Int 14 = 8 + 6 (6 pts)
Wis 8 = 8 + 0 (0 pts)
Cha 8 = 8 + 0 (0 pts)

Feats:
Power Attack (lvl 1)
Improved Sunder (human)
Improved Bull Rush (flaw, Weak Will)
Mage Slayer (lvl 3)
Improved Initiative (lvl 5)
Shock Trooper (lvl 6)
Blind-Fight (lvl 9)
Leap Attack (lvl 9)
Combat Brute (lvl 12)
Quick Draw (lvl 13)
Pierce Magical Concealment (lvl 15)
Some Warblade bonus feat (lvl 17)
Pierce magical Protection (lvl 18)


o Power Attack -> Improved Bull Rush -> Shock Trooper CW
x Combat Reflexes -> Robilar's Gambit PHBII
o Power Attack -> Leap Attack CAdv
o Power Attack -> Improved Sunder -> Combat Brute CW
x Ironheart Aura, Stormguard Warrior ToB
x Combat Expertise, Dodge -> Karmic Strike CW

Skills (4+int):
jump
tumble
intimidate
concentrate
balance
Twisted Charge (Balance 5, Tumble 5)
Back on Your Feet (Tumble 12)
Extreme Leap (Jump 5)
Nimble Charge (Balance 5)
Nimble Stand (Tumble 8)
1: 4 in jump, tumble, intimidate, concentrate, balance, 2 in spellcraft
leave 2 in spellcraft
2: 5 in jump, balance, tumble, concentrate, 4 in intimidate, Twisted Charge
leave 5 in balance
3: 6 in jump, tumble, concentrate, intimidate, 1 in Knowledge (History)
4: 7 in jump, tumble, concentrate, intimidate, 1 in Knowledge (History), Nimble Charge
5: 8 in jump, tumble, concentrate, intimidate, 3 in Knowledge (History)
6: 9 in jump, tumble, concentrate, intimidate, 3 in Knowledge (History), Nimble Stand
7: 10 in jump, tumble, concentrate, intimidate, 5 in Knowledge (History)
8: 11 in jump, tumble, concentrate, intimidate, 5 in Knowledge (History), Extreme Leap
9: 12 in jump, tumble, concentrate, intimidate, 7 in Knowledge (History)
10: 13 in jump, tumble, concentrate, intimidate, 7 in Knowledge (History), Back on Your Feet
11: 14 in jump, tumble, concentrate, intimidate, 9 in Knowledge (History)
12: 15 in jump, tumble, concentrate, intimidate, 11 in Knowledge (History)
13: 16 in jump, tumble, concentrate, intimidate, 13 in Knowledge (History)
14: 17 in jump, tumble, concentrate, intimidate, 15 in Knowledge (History)
15: 18 in jump, tumble, concentrate, intimidate, 17 in Knowledge (History)
16: 19 in jump, tumble, concentrate, intimidate, Knowledge (History)
17: 20 in jump, tumble, concentrate, intimidate, Knowledge (History), 1 in Knowledge (Local)
18: 21 in jump, tumble, concentrate, intimidate, Knowledge (History), 2 in Knowledge (Local)
19: 22 in jump, tumble, concentrate, intimidate, Knowledge (History), 3 in Knowledge (Local)
20: 23 in jump, tumble, concentrate, intimidate, Knowledge (History), 4 in Knowledge (Local)

DM: Momement of Perfect Mind (lvl 1, prereq 0, will->conc), Sapphire Nightmare Blade (lvl 1, prereq 0, flat-footed),
Bounding Assault (lvl 4, prereq 2, move and charge), Hearing the Air (stance, lvl 5, prereq 2, blindsense), Time Stands Still (lvl 9, prereq 4, 2 full attacks),
Stance of Alacrity (stance, lvl 8, prereq 3, 2 counters), Iron Heart Surge (lvl 3, prereq 1, remove debuff)
IH: Steely Strike (lvl 1, prereq 0, + attack), Wall of Blades (lvl 2, prereq 0, block), Dancing Blade Form (stance, lvl 5, prereq 2, more reach),
Adamantite Hurricane (lvl 8, prereq 3, attack all adjacent), Strike of Perfect Clarity (lvl 9, prereq 4, +100 damage),
Lightning Recovery (lvl 4, prereq 2, reroll miss)
TC: Hunter's Sense (stance, lvl 1, prereq 1, scent), Sudden Leap (lvl 1, prereq 1, jump as swift),
Pouncing Charge (lvl 5, prereq 2, pounce), Swooping Dragon Strike (lvl 7, prereq 3, jump and attack)
WR: Leading the Charge (stance, lvl 1, prereq 0, + charge), White Raven Tactics (lvl 3, prereq 1, initiative count),
Tactics of the Wolf (stance, lvl 3, prereq 1, + flank), White Raven Hammer (lvl 8, prereq 3, stun),
War Master's Charge (maneuever, lvl 9, prereq 4, super charge)

level 1:
stats: 16, 14, 16, 14, 8, 8
feats: Power Attack (lvl 1), Improved Sunder (human), Improved Bull Rush (flaw, Weak Will)
maneuvers: Momement of Perfect Mind (DM), Steely Strike (IH), Sudden Leap (1TC)
stance: Hunter's Sense (TC)

level 2:
Sapphire Nightmare Blade (DM) (maneuver)

level 3 (2nd lvl maneuevers):
Mage Slayer (lvl 3), Wall of Blades (IH) (maneuver)

level 4:
+1 Str, Leading the Charge (WR) (stance)
maybe switch out old

level 5 (3rd lvl maneuvers):
Improved Initiative (Warblade feat), White Raven Tactics (1WR) (maneuver)

level 6:
Shock Trooper (lvl 6)
Sapphire Nightmare Blade (DM)->Iron Heart Surge (DM)

level 7 (4th lvl maneuvers):
Bounding Assault (2DM) (maneuver)

level 8:
+1 Str, Tactics of the Wolf (1WR) (stance)
Steely Strike (IH)->Lightning Recovery (IH)

level 9 (5th lvl maneuvers):
Blind-Fight (Warblade feat), Leap Attack (lvl 9), Pouncing Charge (2TC) (maneuver)

level 10:
maybe switch out old

level 11 (6th lvl maneuvers):
Dancing Blade Form (2IH) (stance)

level 12:
+1 Str, Combat Brute (lvl 12), Hearing the Air (2DM) (stance)
maybe switch out old

level 13 (7th lvl maneuvers):
Quick Draw (Warblade feat), Swooping Dragon Strike (3TC) (maneuver)

level 14:
maybe switch out old

level 15 (8th lvl maneuvers):
Pierce Magical Concealment (lvl 15), Adamantite Hurricane (3IH) (maneuver)

level 16:
+1 Str, Stance of Alacrity (3DM) (stance)
Sudden Leap (TC)->White Raven Hammer (3WR) (maneuever)

level 17 (9th lvl maneuvers):
something (Warblade feat, maybe Acrobatic), Strike of Perfect Clarity (4IH) (maneuver)

level 18:
Pierce Magical Protection (lvl 18)
Lightning Recovery (IH)->Time Stands Still (4DM) (maneuver)

level 19:
War Master's Charge (4WR)

level 20:
+1 Str
maybe switch out old
I like to have everything totally planned out. Just wondering how others do it.

[Slipperychicken]

I ask the DM "what level do you see the campaign ending at?". I plan out levels and feats (when they're important, i.e. not for wizards) until that point, then possess a vague idea of what's going to happen (one PrC) thereafter.

[Wings of Peace]

I usually plan almost everything but I've also got a decent enough knowledge of what's out there that I can do it without much thought. If it's a Wizard I ask myself whether I want to go for a metamagic focus or a spontaneous casting focus and build from there for example. Skills are about the only thing I don't keep in mind when building a character, but that's just because (aside from prc requirements) I use the skills to help personalize the character.

[tiercel]

Since I've never, ever been in a lvl 1-20 campaign (or even a campaign at 20), I don't make 20-level builds.

I'll usually plan out a build with an eye to the likely range the campaign will reach... but I eyeball that build after pretty much every level to assess whether it makes sense in the campaign (e.g. how are the other PCs developing, what am I learning about the style and population of the DM's world, etc). If I realize that my original build won't be as fun in this game as I thought, I want to be able to make minimal retroactive changes / retraining to aim at a different build.

Also I keep in mind that PCs, you know, die, and get replaced, which can alter my character's role in the party. (Or players leave. Or get tired of their characters and ask to retrain/replace them.) For that matter, it's not like my own PC is invincible -- I put some effort into ideas for a replacement build and not just locking in my current build.

[Geigan]

I'll typically start by making a character that's effective and fun at the starting level, so I'm not bored playing something until my build comes "online." After that, I'll typically plan myself forward for a level or two in case we level before I look at building it again. After that I'll eventually get around to making a 20 level build because if I have a free hour or so in which I'm not doing anything I'll fill it in building that character because it's fun. I'll have at least an idea what I want to do with the whole 20 levels at least after a session or two, if not right off the bat. Typically that 20 level build won't be to the letter unless there was something specific I wanted to try. Characters grow organically their own way though, so sometimes I'll go off and do something I wasn't even expecting.

[Tr011]

I plan what my character will do until level ~10 via classes, race and feats. I check skills only for requirements. I make a list of things that would/could be good after (like 1 or 2 PrCs, or feats) and then decide when I get those levels.
Btw is there ANY reason you do not take a second flaw?

[Alleine]

I usually have a very specific goal in mind with each character I make, but I don't usually plan them all the way. I plan it up to the point I'm shooting for, but a lot of the feats are up in the air unless what I'm going for is complicated. My most planned build was a Fleshwarper that I never actually got to play, but I eventually canned it because getting the build to be what I want just wasn't working. The wonky entries into PrC's vs what I'd like to enter them WITH generally take up most of the build plans.

If I think I've got what I want then the rest of the character isn't created/solidified until I've actually played a session or two with it. The GM lets us switch out feats and such if we never actually end up using them, which happens to me a lot :smallredface:

[Hunter Killer]

I plan out a 20 level build with Feats, Skills, Powers, Spells, etc... However, I try to make it useful at all levels (Or have it 'come online' at < 5th Level).

This keeps me from front or back-loading it while giving me a plan if the campaign goes on longer than I thought it would.

[Heatwizard]

I try to plan out all 20 levels as soon as I know what's allowed and what stats I'm gonna be using; classes, feats, important skills. It's never too late to change course, but there IS a point at which it's too late to plan ahead. (Also, when I level up, I take maybe a minute to pick flavor skills and then I'm done, so that's pretty nice.) I also have a habit of keeping a backup character on hand, in case of death, to step in and fill the role; those plans tend to be more barebones, though.

But I get a kick out of building dudes, so I don't really mind the extra legwork.

[Earthwalker]

Generally I work out who my character is, some eliments of background.
Then choose a class that seems to fit that. So I plan about as far as level one. then when play begins I generally work out if I am heading towards some PrC.
One exception to this so far, I once wanted to play a Arcane Trickster, so started as a lvl 1 rogue and went from there, I had some idea what I was aiming for before play began.

[Palthera]

I mostly make it up as I go along, perhaps a couple of levels ahead in vague terms. Especially if there is a specific feat or prestige class I want, but aside from that, I like browsing books and making it up as I go for whatever I think is needed at the time.

[Alienist]

Planning a character out is important because otherwise it's too easy to miss out on something important or otherwise screw up.

On the other hand, unless you're juggling more than 3 classes and prestige classes it usually isn't too hard to figure it out and you don't need to take it to 20.

So long as you meet the pre-requisites and don't break the rules you're doing 'enough'.

The other thing you should do is communicate your intentions to the DM. If you're going to try to get into something like Swiftblade then he can set up cool plot hooks and the like, or he can veto it before you waste a bunch of feats and a whole level casting nothing but Haste.

If you're planning how to spend your WBL 10+ levels from now you've probably taken it waaaayyy too far. :D

[sonofzeal]

I usually only have a general idea. I know what PrCs I'm aiming for and what I'll need to do to qualify, but I enjoy making characters and I kind of look forward to each little step. Also, I find things change depending on the campaign. I might tweak the progression a bit. If a PrC costs me a casting level, I might put it off if I really think I'll need those top spells in the next couple sessions, or I might take a feat to cover an unexpected hole. Gotta roll with the punches, y'know?

[molten_dragon]

It really depends on the character for me. Some are planned out in great detail, others aren't planned ahead of time at all (or very little). Typically the more complicated the build I'm going to play, the more planning I do.

For example, my latest character is a battle sorcerer 6/Swiftblade 10/Abjurant Champion 4. He is planned out in exacting detail, including skills, all his feats, and every spell he's taking. He needs to be though, because he's extremely tight on feats and knows very few spells so I need to make sure I have all the ones I want.

My last character was a crusader/cleric/RKV. He wasn't really planned out at all, except for making sure he met the prerequisites for RKV so he could start taking it at level 5.

[danzibr]

Btw is there ANY reason you do not take a second flaw?
Originally I was taking 2 flaws but then I changed to human. I don't know what other feat I'd need.

[DigoDragon]

On average I plan out to about level 10.

[Gwendol]

I wing it. Seriously, I only plan up to level 4 or so, then try and adapt and change as the adventure unfolds.

[Drathmar]

I generally plan for 20th level and try and get whatever build I am working on to come online (or at least be playable) as early as possible as most campaigns I play in start under 5th level and go to 20th and beyond.

[Starlight1978]

I plan the character from starting level up to 6-10 levels ahead.
In the case we start at level 1: 1-10
In the case we start at level 10: 10-16

This is the average campaign-length for us.

[Mirakk]

I plan like the OP, with every detail planned out. However, I plan to level 30 for ****s and giggles.

However, most campaigns never last nearly that long due to players getting ADD about wanting to be a different character, get a new job, college education etc, so my highest character was level 12. <---fail

It's still fun though!

[PersonMan]

For me, it depends on the game. I normally make a character with no plans (apart from, say, finishing a PrC I'm in) about their future, unless it's a lower-level version of the same concept or I've made a higher-level build for them (often when applying to a high-level game with them).

With my current character for a Skype game, I don't plan on PrCing so I know what levels I'll have, and know which feats I want to take for the next 6 levels.

[Slipperychicken]

Btw is there ANY reason you do not take a second flaw?

Typically these involve aversion to penalties (I've seen people who will never take less than 10 on an ability score, who call a str-and-cha-dumping Wizard a munchkin, and who shudder at any minus sign that appears on a character sheet), and repulsion from an ill-conceived notion of "minmaxing" or "munchkinry".

If you think the option is that unbalanced, just don't use it.

[FMArthur]

I usually plan out a build to 10th level and make sure its gimmick actually works at whatever the starting level is. That's a key point that I used to fail at when I wasn't so good at the game. I mean if the thing you made the build for is not even functional at the point you're actually going to play it, what was the point? Even if your fun trick does come to fruition (I don't need to list the million factors that can prevent that from happening even in games with planned level curves), you probably spent at least one long session without any trick and still lost out on the fun and variety in that particular session over something that works earlier.

That's not to say that you can't enjoy the character for its personality and still have a good time, but you're still essentially passing on a major fun part of the game for pretty senseless reasons.

[Ernir]

I usually plan builds that come "online" a level or two after the game's starting level. That way, I have something to look forward to.

Also, I don't play classes that eventually fizzle out, unless I happen to know that the campaign has a maximum level.


Btw is there ANY reason you do not take a second flaw?

I've seen people avoid it when they don't want to mess up the Mary Sue-ness of the character. :|

[Randrew]

I will make several alternate plans, ready to change them completely depending on what direction my character takes. I'm currently playing a Dwarf who I originally thought would make an excellent Fighter, Ranger, or Artificer. Next level, I start in on Dragonfire Adept. And even that plan could change. All about trying to make the mechanics reflect the character.

[Greenish]

I will make several alternate plans, ready to change them completely depending on what direction my character takes. I'm currently playing a Dwarf who I originally thought would make an excellent Fighter, Ranger, or Artificer. Next level, I start in on Dragonfire Adept. And even that plan could change. All about trying to make the mechanics reflect the character.And you don't know whether your character breathes fire? :smalltongue:

[Mustard]

I generally plan out several levels in advance at the start, and note that plan for future reference. This way, I don't end up with a situation where, for example, I want a feat next level, but don't meet its prerequisites because I didn't plan ahead. I don't plan too far ahead, though, because I like having the campaign influence my character build (both in the mechanical sense and in the thematic sense), and changing just one decision can scrap all that planning.

In short, I have an outline of the next 8 levels that is easy to modify so that the build can at least somewhat adapt to changing requirements.

[Randrew]

And you don't know whether your character breathes fire? :smalltongue:

Hahaha! Sometimes, you start off with levels in Dwarf Paragon, intending to be the team primary melee fighter, but you end up a cult leader. Oops!

[Mystify]

I plan everything out. 1-20, no matter what the campaign will do. I will, of course, make sure that the build functions well within the timespan of the campaign, but I dislike having a build that will grind to a halt after the campaign ends.

I am in a campaign that I have to leave early, so I only get to play levels 2-3. I still have plans for how the character would develop to be a charisma based killing machine, on top of his master diplomat status.

[Polarity Shift]

As much as I need to, which typically isn't very much as I usually play things that don't need hyperplanning to succeed. Sometimes I do though and at that point it's simply a matter of following the line that forms my progression path because any deviation will ruin them.

I'm not a big fan of determinism though so I usually get bored of this.

[Thurbane]

When I first started 3.X, I didn't really plan the character out...and quickly learnt the pitfalls (prereqs!). Now I usually plot my character out to the expected conclusion level of the campaign...my current character (1/2 Orc Ranger 3/Fighter 2/Barbarian 5+) is planned out to 10th.

[BobVosh]

I plan my levels out, and thats about it. I don't know my feats, skills, or items beyond whatever seems obvious.

However then I plan the levels from 1-20, even though most games we have end at 15.

[Deathslayer7]

I pick a PrC that I want to play and then decide how I should get there. Build the levels up to it and the best way to get up to the minimum level in entering that PrC. Don't do any building after that because I have had many characters who died. Don't really tell the DM my ideas either. That way, if my character dies before I can enter the PrC, I can still enter it without any problems. :smalltongue:

[Meianleader]

come up with concept
figure out the best way to do it, coming up with in detail anything related to the concept, and figure out what i'll do with the rest of my stuff when i get there

[Bhaakon]

I generally have a general idea of what I what, going so far as to choose prestige classes ahead of time and plan how to qualify for them, but I don't plan out every feat and skill point in detail, and I often change my mind-mid build.

I usually play pathfinder, though, and the extra feats and skill system tweaks make it much more forgiving for poor planners like me.

[Bhaakon]

I generally have a general idea of what I what, going so far as to choose prestige classes ahead of time and plan how to qualify for them, but I don't plan out every feat and skill point in detail, and I often change my mind-mid build.

I usually play pathfinder, though, and the extra feats and skill system tweaks make it much more forgiving for poor planners like me.

[navar100]

I don't plan everything to level 20, but I do plan a lot. I plan on what feats I'll be taking and when, and whether I'm flexible in the order or choice of feats. If a spell caster, I plan on what spells I want to prepare as my standard operating procedure of spells to have every day. It determines my tactics. It can change if campaign circumstances warrant. For example, for my current Sorcerer I originally didn't want to have Magic Missile, but I found my spell choices tend to lack the ability to target single enemies, especially undead we're facing often. At 7th level getting my last 1st level known spell, I decided to take it just so as I have something to do when combat circumstances don't have my other spells be efficiently used when cast. I have plenty of 1st level spell slots. With just one exception, I always make plans for if I will multi-class and/or go into a Prestige Class. The one exception was going into a Prestige Class I never intended to at character creation but campaign plot points and roleplay made it the most logical thing to do - my cleric became a Church Inquisitor after exposing his own father for treason.

I don't plan skill points unless I know I need a particular skill maximized. I never assume I'll have any particular magic item. I never make my character build dependent on having it.

[DarthPeleus]

My character sheet. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah978jhxw8hkdFYxa2Jwel9PalExUGM3cmNDOTJBM UE&hl=en_US#gid=0)

We all became vampire-weresomethings at the end of the game, due to PTSD from being nuked by a red wizard.