Half-Orc Martial Adept idea

[Sans]

Yo, so here's what I got. We're tenth level, so I'm thinking maybe Swordsage 2/Warblade 7/ Master of Nine 1. I'm thinking on unarmed Swordsage for those two levels, and my ability scores(rolled) feats are looking like this:

Str: 15 + 1(Fourth Level) + 2(racial)= 18
Dex: 16
Con: 17
Int: 15 - 2(racial)= 13
Wis: 15 + 1(Eighth Level)= 16
Cha: 14 -2(racial)= 12

1c- Improved Initiative
3c- Two Weapon Fighting
5wb- Blind-Fight
6c- Adaptive Style
9c- Dodge

His main style to be used is Tiger Claw, and I'm thinking on maybe using a bit o` Shadow Hand with it. I've read up on the Warblade handbook, and Iron Heart and Diamond Mind seem really good. So far so good, or could it use definite work?

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

I'd go Dex17 and Con16 instead.
get the "shadow blade" feat for which you should easily qualify thanks to swordsage, to add extradamage that scales with your dexterity, in addition to the normal damage you get from a high strength score.
If you keep enhancing your dexterity instead of strength, you will easily qualify for TWF chain, while boosting AC, initiative and reflex save, and losing absolutely nothing.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I'd go Dex17 and Con16 instead.
get the "shadow blade" feat for which you should easily qualify thanks to swordsage, to add extradamage that scales with your dexterity, in addition to the normal damage you get from a high strength score.

A) Con boosts fortitude saves
B) Concentration is based on con
C) It's one point of damage
D) It locks you into a Shadow Hand stance and forces you to use a Shadow Hand weapon

[NeoSeraphi]

Is there a particular reason you need Wisdom to be so high here? Yes, you can get it to your AC, but you also get medium armor with a warblade, so you could just slap on some mithral full-plate and dump Wisdom.

The reason I'm suggesting this is because you'd probably be a lot stronger if you chose to be a Water Orc (Unearthed Arcana) instead of half-orc, you'd get +4 Str and +2 Con, but -2 Int, Wis, and Cha.

The main draw of Master of Nine is to get all 9 Disciplines, so here's what you do: Ignore Stone Dragon and Setting Sun (unless you're using a trip-based weapon, you probably won't be able to use Setting Sun anyway), and then if you're using a two-handed sword, ignore Tiger Claw as well. Load up on the best Diamond Mind maneuvers (Emerald Razor, Moment of Perfect Mind, Greater Insightful Strike, Time Stands Still), get some healing from Devoted Spirit, some utility from Shadow Hand, and pick a couple of stances that you want to switch between off and on all day. (I'm partial to Aura of Perfect Order myself)


get the "shadow blade" feat for which you should easily qualify thanks to swordsage, to add extradamage that scales with your dexterity, in addition to the normal damage you get from a high strength score.

That depends on whether he wants to stay in a Shadow Hand stance and use a finessable weapon all the time. He'd probably be better off using a greatsword, but he's an unarmed swordsage who focuses on Tiger Claw at first, so we need to know what weapon he wants to use, otherwise he might not even qualify for Shadow Blade.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

A) Con boosts fortitude saves
Dex boosts reflex saves and AC

B) Concentration is based on con
initiative is based on dex...

C) It's one point of damage
Shadow blade is in addition to strength, not instead of it.
And since he is going to fight with two weapons, bonus damage is a good thing, and he wants a good DEX anyway, so it looked like a good idea or am I missing something?

D) It locks you into a Shadow Hand stance and forces you to use a Shadow Hand weapon
Ok, this is true, you may like it or not. I do, and I felt like suggesting it.
Sad characters are easy to manage and tend to work better in the long run, IMHO.

[Drathmar]

Shadow blade is in addition to strength, not instead of it.
And since he is going to fight with two weapons, bonus damage is a good thing, and he wants a good DEX anyway, so it looked like a good idea or am I missing something?



This would depend on the DM... as while the full feat text says its just +DEX to damage, the box that lists all the feats has it's description as you get DEX to damage INSTEAD of STR (my DM is using the latter himself, since this is most likely meant to be weapon finesse but for damage).

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

This would depend on the DM...
Everything depends on the DM, but the extended text looks more reliable in case of conflict.
Of course it loses a lot of appeal (for an orc - it's still awesome if not situationally better for an halfling) if interpreted as a substitution rather than an addition.

[Sans]

I'd go Dex17 and Con16 instead.
get the "shadow blade" feat for which you should easily qualify thanks to swordsage, to add extradamage that scales with your dexterity, in addition to the normal damage you get from a high strength score.
If you keep enhancing your dexterity instead of strength, you will easily qualify for TWF chain, while boosting AC, initiative and reflex save, and losing absolutely nothing.

I thought about it, but I decided I'd give dual kukris a try. Mostly for the critical hits.


Is there a particular reason you need Wisdom to be so high here? Yes, you can get it to your AC, but you also get medium armor with a warblade, so you could just slap on some mithral full-plate and dump Wisdom.

The reason I'm suggesting this is because you'd probably be a lot stronger if you chose to be a Water Orc (Unearthed Arcana) instead of half-orc, you'd get +4 Str and +2 Con, but -2 Int, Wis, and Cha.

The main draw of Master of Nine is to get all 9 Disciplines, so here's what you do: Ignore Stone Dragon and Setting Sun (unless you're using a trip-based weapon, you probably won't be able to use Setting Sun anyway), and then if you're using a two-handed sword, ignore Tiger Claw as well. Load up on the best Diamond Mind maneuvers (Emerald Razor, Moment of Perfect Mind, Greater Insightful Strike, Time Stands Still), get some healing from Devoted Spirit, some utility from Shadow Hand, and pick a couple of stances that you want to switch between off and on all day. (I'm partial to Aura of Perfect Order myself)

I wanted wisdom to be high for a few reasons. I wanted him to be an observant and wise sort of fellow. Also, I wanted help with light armor so I could eek out as much out of jump as possible.

Water Orc is amazing, but I kinda want to keep him a Half-Orc for flavor and story.

Since I'm going to be building on TWF, do I mainly just swap Diamond Mind with Tiger Claw for the most part?

[NeoSeraphi]

I wanted wisdom to be high for a few reasons. I wanted him to be an observant and wise sort of fellow. Also, I wanted help with light armor so I could eek out as much out of jump as possible.

Water Orc is amazing, but I kinda want to keep him a Half-Orc for flavor and story.

Hey, all the more power to you. I am always in favor of a flavorful character.



Since I'm going to be building on TWF, do I mainly just swap Diamond Mind with Tiger Claw for the most part?

Hmmm...I would still do what you can to get Greater Insightful Strike (there are going to be times when you just need to stab someone and twist the knife, and it will definitely be a relief to have if your DM manages to disarm or sunder one of your two knives) but yes, other than that, you should grab all the best Tiger Claw maneuvers (Time Stands Still is still king, of course)

[Darrin]

Water Orc is amazing, but I kinda want to keep him a Half-Orc for flavor and story.


Consider Desert Half-Orc, then: +2 Con, -2 Int, Run as a bonus feat.

Frostblood Half-Orc (Dragon Magic) is also worth a look. Same stats as half-orc, resistance to cold 10 (vulnerable to fire), and gains the slightly more useful Endurance as a bonus feat. Ask your DM if gaining Endurance later via your Warblade 5 bonus feat allows you to pick any other bonus feat.



Since I'm going to be building on TWF, do I mainly just swap Diamond Mind with Tiger Claw for the most part?

Tiger Claw doesn't actually help TWF as much as some people think it does, as most of its strikes are standard actions based on a Jump check. You want to cherry-pick it for the TWF stuff: Sudden Leap, Pouncing Charge (if you don't have Pounce already), Dancing Mongoose, and Raging Mongoose.

Likewise, if you're going TWF, you don't want to go too heavy on Diamond Mind strikes, just grab enough boosts/counters/stances to get Time Stands Still.

[Sans]

Hmmm...I would still do what you can to get Greater Insightful Strike (there are going to be times when you just need to stab someone and twist the knife, and it will definitely be a relief to have if your DM manages to disarm or sunder one of your two knives) but yes, other than that, you should grab all the best Tiger Claw maneuvers (Time Stands Still is still king, of course)

Since Time Stands Still requires four maneuvers from Diamond Mind, I was thinking Insightful Strike and it's bigger cousin, Rapid Counter, and maybe Moment of Alacrity?


Consider Desert Half-Orc, then: +2 Con, -2 Int, Run as a bonus feat.

Frostblood Half-Orc (Dragon Magic) is also worth a look. Same stats as half-orc, resistance to cold 10 (vulnerable to fire), and gains the slightly more useful Endurance as a bonus feat. Ask your DM if gaining Endurance later via your Warblade 5 bonus feat allows you to pick any other bonus feat.

Frostblooded Half-Orc does seem pretty cool, but the vulnerability to fire seems to risky for the campaign I'm in. Lots of Blaster Sorcerers.

Desert Half-Orc right now looks like a godsend. If I fiddle with the ability scores, I get the same set I have now, but I have a higher Charisma. Eh, not gonna complain. However, I net two feats. Run and Heat Endurance. Wow...

[Hiro Protagonest]

Since Time Stands Still requires four maneuvers from Diamond Mind, I was thinking Insightful Strike and it's bigger cousin, Rapid Counter, and maybe Moment of Alacrity?
You mean Stance of Alacrity, right? And Emerald Razor is way better than Rapid Counter. Consider trading out Insightful Strike after getting Greater Insightful Strike, and get Hearing the Air since it's probably the only useful 5th level stance except Dancing Blade Form (it's still better than that).

Desert Half-Orc right now looks like a godsend. If I fiddle with the ability scores, I get the same set I have now, but I have a higher Charisma. Eh, not gonna complain. However, I net two feats. Run and Heat Endurance. Wow...

It's because
A) The designers had no idea what they were doing
Or
B) They did in this case, and knew half-orc was horribly weak and that Run and Endurance are both horribly subpar feats

[Greenish]

if you're using a two-handed sword, ignore Tiger Claw as well.Why? It's a great school for sheer damage.