needing help with "laser kitty" (tibbit warlock)

[ducttapebandit]

I'm putting together a Tibbit warlock/rogue for an upcoming campaign and I'm struggling with where to go other than the basic "It's a cat that shoots laser beams from its eyes." I originally had something more to the concept, but I had to scrap that part when our group instituted a rule where we are no longer allowed to base characters on the pets of other group members. :smallfrown:

I'm looking for prestige classes that merge the rogue and warlock abilities. My group has an extensive collection, so assume we have the book in question. The DM is also letting some homebrew in this time around. Feat suggestions are also appreciated.

The basic idea is a chaotic good sneaky cat that shoots evil guys. I plan to stay in the cat form as much as possible. This is a level 5 character with rolls of 18, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12. The feat Surrogate Spellcasting from Savage Species is my only other requirement as it lets me take advantage of the cat form. (EDIT: Based on past experience with this group, we'll reach level 7 or so.) I'm willing to swap out the rogue levels for ranger levels if that makes a difference.

Thank you! Usually, I'm just fine with regards to mechanics and struggle with personality. This time it's the other way around.

And, yeah, I know warlocks don't shoot eldritch blasts out of their eyes. I'll probably have to go with the tail instead.

[Campbellk8105]

My friend played a psionic tibbit. Damn cats, running around Mind blasting everything... Destroying Grey Hawk...

Anyways, definitely if you're going blasty warlock, go for hellfire warlock.

Also, I haven't read much into tibbits but I'm guessing you get a claw attack (minor as it may be) in which case I'd say grab Beast Strike and Eldritch Claws. Just for the fact of the hilariousness of an Eldritch cat running around mauling commoners and feasting on the crunchy mice you catch.

IMO, I don't feel you need rogue a whole lot for your build. Personally I like the abilities progression of straight warlock better than mixing the two.

[Morithias]

Althought if you do go hellfire warlock, be sure to level dip into binder to get your con damage self-repairing.

Just a thought.

[Keneth]

I gotta say that playing a kitty with lasers is gonna be very unoptimized. Especially if you're gonna rely on sneak attack rather than pure eldritch blast.

You could go for eldritch glaive but I have no idea how the hell that would work in animal form. A lightsabre held with the tail? The more appropriate option would be Eldritch Claws as mentioned above which would make use of your claw attacks, the only problem is - you're tiny. So using claws means you have to get inside the target's space, which is again suboptimal, especially since you're somewhat squishy. Invisibility (walk unseen, retributive invisibility) invocations are obviously a must, whether you're going ranged with SA or melee to avoid AoOs. Improved initiative is a good idea too if you can spare the feat, but if you'll be blasting at range, you're also gonna need PBS and precise shot to be effective. Warlocks are unfortunately very feat starved.

If you're gonna be multiclassing into rogue, find as many ways to increase your sneak attack as possible. A few levels in Swordsage should give you some pretty fancy maneuvers and stances (including assassin's stance and island of blades) to help you along. You should also consider Chameleon prestige class to get some floating class features/feats.

If you're gonna take hellfire warlock levels, you can exploit the binder (naberius vestige) or incarnate (strongheart vest) class features to avoid Con damage. Chameleon might also allow you to use these (not sure, it's been a while).

[Darrin]

I'm looking for prestige classes that merge the rogue and warlock abilities.


This looks like a job for... Unseen Seer! (Complete Mage) Does the job of arcane trickster much better than... well, Arcane Trickster.

I believe the typical entry is Warlock 3/Rogue 1/Beguiler 1. However, you could also try Rogue 1/Warlock 4/Assassin 1 (or Avenger (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a) if you want something less Evil-ish).



Feat suggestions are also appreciated.


1) Surrogate Spellcasting
3) Craven
6) Shape Soulmeld: MacGonagall's Spectacles
9) Craft Wondrous Item
12) Staggering Strike
15) Quicken Spell-like Ability
18) Extra Invocation



I'm willing to swap out the rogue levels for ranger levels if that makes a difference.


I would only consider that if Mystic Ranger was available... in which case, I'd try to pick up Turn Undead via Planar Touchstone (Sun Domain in the Dragonlance Campaign Setting grants TU as a cleric) and try to get into Eldritch Disciple. Kitty + LzrBBBM eyes that HEAL!



And, yeah, I know warlocks don't shoot eldritch blasts out of their eyes. I'll probably have to go with the tail instead.

That's just fluff. Write down "I shoot eldritch blasts out of my eyes" on your character sheet and you should be good to go. If you want to get technical about the Surrogate Spellcasting thing... you use your two sets of eyelids for the somatic components.

[Keneth]

There's no RAW that states where EB comes from, so what you use to satisfy somatic components is completely irrelevant.

[Psyren]

There's no RAW that states where EB comes from, so what you use to satisfy somatic components is completely irrelevant.

Not exactly. The specific method for firing eldritch blasts may have no RAW, but somatic components definitely do.



Somatic (S)
A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.

You could make a case that EBs are different (being simpler) but a ruling could go either way.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

There are no PrC's that facilitate Rogue and Warlock together, however if your group agrees to allow being able to use a Lesser Invocation as being able to cast 3rd level spells, and picks up a feat for Mage Hand, then you can get into Arcane Trickster, which does a fair job of it.

There's a technically 'legitimate' way to do it, but you have to be a Halfling for it, since it involves Nosmiac Chirgeon.

I'd second HFW for damage output boost, and second a dip in Binder for Nab to mitigate the Con damage.

[ducttapebandit]

I took a look at Hellfire Warlock. We're not going to get to a high enough level where that is going to be accessible. I'm expecting we'll reach level 7 or maybe 8 at most.

The point of multi-classing into rogue or ranger was to get move silently and hide as a class skill. That and I've never played a character that gets so few skill points per level. I hadn't considered where the modifiers would be starting before skill points were assigned (cat form: +6 move silently, +14 hide; humanoid form: +5 move silently, +9 hide).


You should also consider Chameleon prestige class to get some floating class features/feats.I'd need to be a human or a doppleganger.


Also, I haven't read much into tibbits but I'm guessing you get a claw attack (minor as it may be) in which case I'd say grab Beast Strike and Eldritch Claws. Just for the fact of the hilariousness of an Eldritch cat running around mauling commoners and feasting on the crunchy mice you catch.Claw and bite. But why would a cat chase when all he needs to do is zap? :smallbiggrin:


You could go for eldritch glaive but I have no idea how the hell that would work in animal form. A lightsabre held with the tail?
In cat form, I can't hold any weapons and I have a strength of 3. I'm going to work to avoid melee.


This looks like a job for... Unseen Seer! (Complete Mage)We're lacking that book and Complete Champion from our collection. I'll see if I can check it out from the library.


There are no PrC's that facilitate Rogue and Warlock together, however if your group agrees to allow being able to use a Lesser Invocation as being able to cast 3rd level spells, and picks up a feat for Mage Hand, then you can get into Arcane Trickster, which does a fair job of it.Thanks. Worst case scenario, I may be able to use that a starting point to homebrew something.


I gotta say that playing a kitty with lasers is gonna be very unoptimized. Especially if you're gonna rely on sneak attack rather than pure eldritch blast.I don't aim for optimization first. I start with something that makes me laugh maniacally and then go from there.

[The Random NPC]

Laugh maniacally? I think I may be able to help with that. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93068)

[Feralventas]

If you take Eldritch Flight, you shouldn't make much noise. (http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/funny-pictures-cloud-cat.jpg)

I'm also fairly sure that there's an invocation to give you a +6 to your stealthy skills, and in combination with a decent Dex score, Tibbit's natural dex augmentations, a cat's tiny size bonuses (+8 to Hide) I'm rather unsure that you'd need to juice your hide and MS beyond maybe picking up a +5 item.

[ducttapebandit]

Laugh maniacally? I think I may be able to help with that. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93068)Wow. Just wow.

If I was going to play an evil warlock, he would worship Snuggles.


If you take Eldritch Flight, you shouldn't make much noise. (http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/funny-pictures-cloud-cat.jpg)

I'm also fairly sure that there's an invocation to give you a +6 to your stealthy skills, and in combination with a decent Dex score, Tibbit's natural dex augmentations, a cat's tiny size bonuses (+8 to Hide) I'm rather unsure that you'd need to juice your hide and MS beyond maybe picking up a +5 item.
Flight is definitely something I'm taking.

[Keneth]

I'd need to be a human or a doppleganger.Totally forgot about prereqs, a shame.


In cat form, I can't hold any weapons and I have a strength of 3. I'm going to work to avoid melee. Well the thing is - here's what the invocation says:

Your eldritch blast takes on physical substance, appearing similar to a glaive. As a full-round action, you can make a single melee touch attack as if wielding a reach weapon.
Technically you can't wield a glaive but then technically the invocation also doesn't say you have to be able to. I think this is probably the only invocation I'd have a hard time justifying if I was polymorphed into a cat. :smallbiggrin:


Not exactly. The specific method for firing eldritch blasts may have no RAW, but somatic components definitely do. He's gonna be using Surrogate Spellcasting so that's irrelevant and wasn't my point at all. Whether he uses hands, paws, tail or whatever he comes up for his somatic components, the fact of the matter is that the eldritch blast doesn't have to come from the extremities with which he performed those.

[The Random NPC]

Wow. Just wow.

If I was going to play an evil warlock, he would worship Snuggles.


You're playing CG right? They made an entire pantheon, worship Good Cat also called Bengal Tigger, who purrs for all.

[ducttapebandit]

You're playing CG right? They made an entire pantheon, worship Good Cat also called Bengal Tigger, who purrs for all.I might just call the deity Sky Cat. The GM for this doesn't usually
look at that part of the character sheet. Or I could have the character worship the GM.


Technically you can't wield a glaive but then technically the invocation also doesn't say you have to be able to. I think this is probably the only invocation I'd have a hard time justifying if I was polymorphed into a cat. :smallbiggrin:Yeah, a tiny character with a reach weapon would be a bit of a stretch.

[Feralventas]

Tiny-cat with a reach weapon= lightsaber effect with 6-ft blade and a lot of agility to make that push past the 1st layer of 5x5 squares viable. Think Yoda; probably had 15ft effective reach through feats and mobility.

[NiteCyper]

Drow of the Underdark > page 47 > CHAPTER 2 - DROW OPTIONS > NEW FEATS > the "BLEND INTO SHADOWS" feat

[Rubik]

Psionics does this much better than warlock does, and factotum is generally better (in almost every way) than rogue.

It's really too bad there's no way to pseudo-gestalt them together the way Tashalatora does with monk and manifesting classes. Maybe ask your DM for such a feat? Either for warlock/rogue, psion/rogue, or psion/factotum.

Then again, there IS the psychic rogue. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) Not much in the way of eye-lasers, though.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Drow of the Underdark > page 47 > CHAPTER 2 - DROW OPTIONS > NEW FEATS > the "BLEND INTO SHADOWS" feat

Big huge honkin' trap. You blow two of your Least invocations, a good chunk of your skill points, and a feat on one single trick which is easily obviated.

[Chronos]

Agreed. The best use of Hide or Invisibility or whatever isn't to make you hard to pin down; it's to make the enemy not even realize that you're there at all. Any spellcaster who sees a globe of darkness wandering around is going to drop a Glitterdust on it, and there you go.

[mikau013]

Psionics does this much better than warlock does, and factotum is generally better (in almost every way) than rogue.

A rogue is by far superior in dealing damage though. The problem with factotum is that after you've caster your 2 spells a day you have nothing really worthwhile to do with your actions. While the rogue is a real single target murder machine. Though for some strange reason many people don't allow the rogue to optimize.

[Talionis]

Taking a martial stance feat with a Shadow Hand maneuver will net you hide as a class skill.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

A rogue is by far superior in dealing damage though. The problem with factotum is that after you've caster your 2 spells a day you have nothing really worthwhile to do with your actions. While the rogue is a real single target murder machine. Though for some strange reason many people don't allow the rogue to optimize.

Factotum has MUCH better damage output, that has nothing to do with spells, if you have Font of Inspiration enough times.

First off, you have Iajitsu Focus as a class skill. There's a source of d6's that already is far superior to Rogues in the low levels

Then you have the ability to do just as much sneak attack as a rogue as a class ability

Then you at level 8, you have the ability to spam standard actions.

Look up the Habadasherer, and you'll see what I mean...

[NiteCyper]

Agreed. The best use of Hide or Invisibility or whatever isn't to make you hard to pin down; it's to make the enemy not even realize that you're there at all. Any spellcaster who sees a globe of darkness wandering around is going to drop a Glitterdust on it, and there you go.
Swallow the pebble of Darkness.
If darkness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm) is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a lightproof covering, the spell’s effect is blocked until the covering is removed.
Darkness-pebble swallowing is like wearing the One Ring (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Ring#Powers), except it's not forbidden (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0lHNCiiXGo).

Idling: Invoke on extra pebbles.
Chuck at Glitterduster
?
PROFIT



Big huge honkin' trap. You blow two of your Least invocations, a good chunk of your skill points, and a feat on one single trick which is easily obviated.
Which is the second Least invocation blown?

Hiding Warlock: Think Night Fury (http://howtotrainyourdragon.wikia.com/wiki/Night_Fury#Behavior).

[mikau013]

Factotum has MUCH better damage output, that has nothing to do with spells, if you have Font of Inspiration enough times.

First off, you have Iajitsu Focus as a class skill. There's a source of d6's that already is far superior to Rogues in the low levels

Then you have the ability to do just as much sneak attack as a rogue as a class ability

Then you at level 8, you have the ability to spam standard actions.

Look up the Habadasherer, and you'll see what I mean...

Factotum dmg output is waaaay worse than rogues. Not sure what you're talking about here.
If you're playing in an oriental campaign and thus Iajitsu focus is allowed then rogues, no wait, everyone has it as well. You don't need it as a class skill to max it out.
And if it is not allowed the factotum can't do any dmg anymore since I don't think anybody cares about the fact that they can gain 1d6 sneak attack as a standard action.

Not to mention that if you take Font of Inspiration loads of times you don't have any feats left anymore.

The habadasherer looks like a build that uses loads of sources, but don't see anything a rogue couldn't do.

[Rubik]

You don't have to be playing an oriental campaign to use Iaijutsu Focus; it's no more Eastern than sneak attack -- it just requires a slightly different means of inflicting the damage (by drawing your weapon fast enough that your foes don't see it coming and let their guard down).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Factotum dmg output is waaaay worse than rogues. Not sure what you're talking about here.
If you're playing in an oriental campaign and thus Iajitsu focus is allowed then rogues, no wait, everyone has it as well. You don't need it as a class skill to max it out. Yes... you do, unless you plan on using custom magic items. Plus, Factotums can boost their checks even higher fairly trivially. About level 5, they're getting the maximum damage boost from Iajitsu Focus fairly regularly.

And if it is not allowed the factotum can't do any dmg anymore since I don't think anybody cares about the fact that they can gain 1d6 sneak attack as a standard action. Maybe you forgot that it stacks with itself, and it doesn't take a standard action? You can spam it as high as you want, as long as you have Inspiration, so you could have FAR more damage than a rogue does.


The habadasherer looks like a build that uses loads of sources, but don't see anything a rogue couldn't do. How about using every weapon ever, at the same time? How about +30d6 per swing? How about doing this AND being able to cast things like Gravestrike or Golemstrike so he doesn't need to wand it? How about a dozen actions per round? How about doing everything the Rogue has to specialize to do... at the same time... AND still be able to do other things as well?


Which is the second Least invocation blown?

Hiding Warlock: Think Night Fury (http://howtotrainyourdragon.wikia.com/wiki/Night_Fury#Behavior).Devil's Sight is needed to see through your own Darkness, unless you want to grant your opponents concealment as well...

[ducttapebandit]

I'm also fairly sure that there's an invocation to give you a +6 to your stealthy skillsIf there is, I can't find it.