Some help for a barb. [PF]

[Captain Duckula]

Hey,

Im playing a Barbarian in a group where he does not quite fit.
MY partners are a cleric, a wizard and a ranger and I somehow feel like Im the worst of them ^^

so I got permission to rebuild my char.
My problem is, that my co-players are munchkins and are always trying to get the best out of their characters and I was falling behind.

We are using all Pathfinder books and Im searching for an Optimized version of my barbarian.

anyone some clues what could push him a bit ?

We are playing Point Buy 20
and Im Human and Level 7

[NOhara24]

I don't have a lot of experience with PF, but based on 3.5, you will never be able to keep up with the wizard and the cleric. They're casters, it's just how it is. Before you start going down the barbarian path again, I would suggest another class if you're concerned about staying relevant within the party.

[Feralventas]

NOhara's got the right of it off the bat; this is as much a system problem as it is a difference in optimization. There are a few things to keep in mind when using the system you're playing in.

First is that some of the classes are going to have more options than others. Barbarian does well as a combatant and damage dealer, but when a Wizard can fly out of reach and bombard you with evocation spells, there's going to be a bit of a disparity in capabilities. Ranged weapons don't make enough of a difference, as at that point the wizard replaces flight with invisibility and we're back and square death.

That said, the Barbarian can still be not only useful, but valuable. A barbarian's strength and base attack will allow them to be durable and destructive in proximity; 2-handing a weapon grants 1.5x your strength modifier damage. A dip in the Ragechemist archetype Alchemist gives you an additional +6 alchemical bonus to add to your +4 or +6 Morale bonus, so an easy +10 before base strength (easy to get a 16) and magical items to boost it further. Bug the Cleric to prep Bull's Strength and slap you with it before he does his own thing. Toss in Power Attack, and you're looking at an easy +15 to +20 damage before even including weapon effects.

Now then, if the trouble ends up being things like Perception? Invisible or concealed targets? You're going to need to be careful about this. Consider rage powers that grant Scent or some kind of Blindsense to deal with these issues. If your targets are getting away from you via mobility, flight and the like, then consider the 2-handed throwing feats and carrying some disposable Great-Axes or Long-Swords. If you're just getting tied down and unable to move and make the most of your full attacks, look at the Vital Strike feats and grab a weapon with big damage dice to double on that first hit.

Edit: Can you elaborate on how exactly you're falling behind or not contributing as much? It would be easier to cater and customize a solution if we know the problem at hand.

[Blyte]

Human Overrun Barb at lvl 7

I suggest opting for invulnerable rager or staying the base barb.

stats-
Str 20+
Dex 14+

feats-
1 power attack
1 combat reflexes
3 extra rage power
5 improved overrun
7 greater overrun

rage powers-
2 strength surge
3 auspicious mark
4 overbearing advance
6 overbearing onslaught

traits-
optimistic gambler
reactionary


----
further advancement-

at 8 take the rage power superstitious(and the alternate human favored class option that bolsters superstition) and make sure the cleric keeps shield other up on you to reduce the need for combat healing.

at 9 take feat cleave or vital strike or spiked destroyer

at 10 take the rage power **reckless abandon or unexpected strike.

at 11 take feat cleaving finish or improved vital strike or spiked destroyer

play style-
basically you dance around the battle field running over anything large sized and smaller and getting your free AoOs with your move action, then finish up with an attack standing next to the monsters you just knocked over, hoping the DM stands them back up for another free AoO.

**you don't really *need reckless abandon because you will be getting +4 to hit the foes you knock prone, but it's still nice to have since it makes hits almost guaranteed

[Zeikstraal]

Go for mount archetype, or let the Cleric or Wizard summon a cool thing for you to ride on.
Go for the Rage Powers that give you pounce. If you have good scores, pump your Dex too, so you can 2 Weapon fighting. Lances are one-handen weapons when wielded when your on your mount. and you now have X3 Damage on 7 Attacks when your High level. Maybe wielding a Lance 2 handed is better, and it is a hell of a lot easier to get.
Both of 'm will do tons of damage.

Edit: and take Spirited Charge. Otherwise no X3 damage

[TheLoneCleric]

Just how optimized are we talking here?

As for good options. The Scared Rager from Complete Fighter is damn powerful build. Basically you give up speed for the power to ignore SO MANY status effects.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo---barbarian-archetypes/scarred-rager

Follow the Rage Power suggestions and you'll do fine.

[Blyte]

Go for mount archetype, or let the Cleric or Wizard summon a cool thing for you to ride on.
Go for the Rage Powers that give you pounce. If you have good scores, pump your Dex too, so you can 2 Weapon fighting. Lances are one-handen weapons when wielded when your on your mount. and you now have X3 Damage on 7 Attacks when your High level. Maybe wielding a Lance 2 handed is better, and it is a hell of a lot easier to get.
Both of 'm will do tons of damage.

Edit: and take Spirited Charge. Otherwise no X3 damage

that build does the most broken damage in PF, but we outlawed it at our table... sure it's good in the RAW, but there is just no way you should be able to pounce with a lance. I mean running someone through with a lance for x3 damage then retracting it and repeating the process over and over and over makes no sense (much less with both hands). I mean it's a time consuming process that would actually require near willing participation from the victim to un-skewer the lance from them then re-skewer again and again and again.. at the very least, the bonus charge damage multiplier should be limited to the first strike.. it's not like you still have charging momentum with every stab you make. If your DM allows it, then by all means, have fun breaking the game with "death star".. get the build outlawed at your table (pushing 1k damage in a single round), then move on to something else.

[TheLoneCleric]

Ah yes. AM BARBARIAN and it's ilk.

[Zeikstraal]

that build does the most broken damage in PF, but we outlawed it at our table... sure it's good in the RAW, but there is just no way you should be able to pounce with a lance. I mean running someone through with a lance for x3 damage then retracting it and repeating the process over and over and over makes no sense (much less with both hands). I mean it's a time consuming process that would actually require near willing participation from the victim to un-skewer the lance from them then re-skewer again and again and again.. at the very least, the bonus charge damage multiplier should be limited to the first strike.. it's not like you still have charging momentum with every stab you make. If your DM allows it, then by all means, have fun breaking the game with "death star".. get the build outlawed at your table (pushing 1k damage in a single round), then move on to something else.

I know, I would never allow it at my table either. We had a GM once who was a jerk, and came with ridicilous things and houserules. So me and a friend where brainstroming if the Barbarian build + a super Eidolon charger mount wicht the Barbarian coud ride. But luckily the campaign never took place. The GM did allow it though:smallconfused: If someone has 2 weapon fighting and he does it with pounce, the best thing I would maybe allow is an attack with both his weapons, he hits it at the same time, so it makes a little bit sense:P

Now that I'm thinking of it, I did allow it one time, and for one session, the player had to rebuild her character after the session. The above mentioned DM wanted to play an old character of his. And that character was also a jerk, throwing people pf chairs cause he was a Battle Cleric of Lathander...And the guy hates small characters. So his character hated them either. I wasn't the DM, I would have stripped him from all his powers for making such a stupid and ridicilous character, I would even strip him from his simple weapon proficiencysXD. I talked to the guy that the player wanted to play an Halfling, and that he just has to behave. But he said that he was a Cleric and would Destroy the Halfling. So I would allow the player to have a little bit of fun hehe. Luckily the jerk stopped playing with us:smallsmile:

But indeed, you will break the game, and I don't see how it can be fun in a serious campaign. It may be an fun idea for a session, where everyone can go nuts. But otherwise I don't see it.