Useful Spells for a Battle at Sea?

[Palanan]

I'm working on the first major encounter for my new campaign, which I'm planning as a battle between the crews of two ships. The PCs will be 4th level and won't be commanding the ship they're with, only contributing to the defense.

There won't be much naval maneuvering for this one; the attackers will have the weather gauge and will close to boarding range as soon as possible. Most of them will be run-of-the-mill seafaring ruffians, but I'm thinking of including a very low-level spellcaster onboard, to make it a little more of a challenge than the defending crew could handle on their own. I don't expect the attacking spellcaster would be more than third level.

Given this, and a battle on open water, can anyone suggest some good spells that the low-level caster would want to use? I could see him either being a bard/sorcerer type or possibly a cleric of some minor, tetchy divine power associated with the sea. That said, I'm really open to just about any spellcasting class that would be especially useful in a pitched naval engagement. Any ideas?

[ShriekingDrake]

Kelpstrand would be useful after boarding. (sorry for being short, I'm on my mobile.)

[gibbo88]

I'd be careful of fire spells. If I was one of the PC's and was a spellcaster I would be using that on the enemy ship and then keeping my distance as it rapidly burnt to the waterline.

[Ravens_cry]

Spells that reposition foes would be useful. Once they're in the water, combine with Hideous Laughter to taste. Can't make a swim check if you can't take actions. I would also argue you can't hold your breath either.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by gibbo88
I'd be careful of fire spells....

I thought of those, and they might have some antipersonnel effect, but the goal for the attackers will be to take the PCs' ship as a prize, rather than to destroy it. So, they're the ones who will be careful of the fire spells. :smallbiggrin:

I like the notion of spells repositioning foes, because--if they're long enough range--these would be especially effective against archers in the rigging. Some way to dislodge them from a distance would be great for the attackers.

[Namfuak]

A druid with a shark companion could use "Fins to Feet" (SpC) and have a cloudburst (SpC) prepared to fight any fires on her ship. Also, she might leave her shark/squid in the water to expedite the drowning of enemies.

[Deathslayer7]

Wind Wall or Gust of Wind might be useful to negate the other ships movement. Otherwise I suggest checking Stormwrack.

[RaggedAngel]

Grease: On a rocking ship, this is death if you place it correctly. The trick is getting close enough to use it.

Obscuring Mist/ Solid Fog: A great way to give your crew time to reload and put out fires. It shuts down combat for several turns, which is always useful.

True Strike: Use it on the guy firing the main cannon.

Protection from Arrows: Most combat is going to be ranged, so this is almost essential at low levels. Casters are high priority targets.

Summon Swarm: Immune to weapons, and it lasts as long as you want it to. Just make sure the swarm stays on their ship, not yours.

Those are all level 1 and 2 spells, too; you can do a lot more with higher level stuff.

[Tr011]

1. Everything that puts people from the ship in the ocean is fun and useful (grease and all the bull rush stuff)
2. Everything that harms both the people and the ship is fun and useful (a lot of AoE fire spells are good for that like Flaming Sphere).
3. Everything that buffs the hordes of fighting people on your side is great (bless i.e.)

If your enemies are fighting the same way you fight:
4. Everything that saves your people from drowning in the ocean is good.
5. Everything that saves the ship is helpful (something against fire, obscuring mist when the enemies attack but you don't for some reason)
6. Everything that debuffs the hordes of fighting people on the other side is great.
7. Dispel Magic to remove harmful effects i.e. from the crew.
8. Distractions for the enemy casters. Magic missles are great for this i.e.
9. Most spells I named have Close range. Get some good medium or long-range spells (Fireball can be useful at high range i.e.)

Oh and make sure to get your melees to the other side (Baleful Transposition, some sort of bridge, maybe also Dimension Door). Summon Monster IV may be an option depending on the melee fighting capacity on the enemies side.

[Palanan]

Thanks for the various suggestions; Summon Swarm in particular is a great one. That could be both effective and hilarious.

Right now I'm thinking the spellcaster will have one level in bard, with a couple more levels in either cleric or sorcerer--although I'm still open to other class suggestions. I'm thinking a Badge of Valor to boost his inspire-courage effect, and maaaaybe Practiced Spellcaster depending on how things sort out.

Anything else I should use for a bard/something else?

[Tyndmyr]

Mending is fantastic for post/mid battle repairs.

The fact that you're limited to level 1 and 2 spells limits things a lot.

My personal favorite? Rope trick to board a ship behind me. Yup, that's an entire party of adventurer's tarzanning on a rope attached to nothing.

[Greenish]

My personal favorite? Rope trick to board a ship behind me. Yup, that's an entire party of adventurer's tarzanning on a rope attached to nothing.Haha, that's brilliant. You'll need a bit of fancy navigation to make sure the aim is correct, but that shouldn't be a huge problem.

[Slipperychicken]

Use firey spells to ignite their sails. No sails, no movement.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Slipperychicken
No sails, no movement.

True, true. And once you've boarded and taken their ship, and want to sail her back as a prize--or add her to your fighting squadron--you have no sails and no movement.



Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
The fact that you're limited to level 1 and 2 spells limits things a lot.

Definitely, but I want this first encounter to be a battle between the two crews, with the attackers buffed and aided by the low-level caster, rather than a fight between the PCs and an upper-level caster. That'll be a couple encounters later. :smalltongue:

Can anyone suggest some useful domains for a low-level seafaring fellow? I'm thinking of rounding out the enemy bard with a couple cleric levels, and at low levels I'd expect domain powers to come in handy. I've hardly ever played clerics, so I could definitely use the advice.

[Averis Vol]

i'd say weather and black water domains (weather: CD, Blackwater: Storwracked) couple of good granted powers and some decent spells.

and pitched and fired arrows are more spell efficient for taking down sails. (seeing as they spend no spells to use :smallcool:)

[gorfnab]

I like Regal Procession (SC). Filling up the decks of the enemy ship with horses is very amusing.

[FMArthur]

Are there any protections you can set up against fire magic besides counterspelling? Because if there is it will be something any crew sporting a mage will absolutely demand of them. Even if these particular attackers won't use fire, the PCs may decide to and takeovers are far from the only type of battle between ships at sea. If any jerk with the ability to Fireball something can send you to the bottom of the sea, I wouldn't be thrilled to learn that their restraint on account of wanting your stuff keeps everyone safe.

[Czin]

How advanced in general is your world? Because some of the spells that would screw over a bronze ram using triereme would do jack diddly squat against a Dreadnought packing 15 inch guns.

If your world is primitive enough where in the absence of magic, ramming and boarding are by far the most effective methods of ship to ship combat (i.e pre gunpowder; Catapults, ballistas, and arrows while present on most of these ships, lacked the punch to push ramming and boarding to secondary roles; weapons like greek fire were a completely different matter though) then you can leisurely pick off everyone on board from a safe distance unless they have mages of their own.

The introduction of cannons and enemy mages changes the game completely as now you want to make sure the other guy doesn't get the chance to blow you out of a water from a distance. Control wind is good for making sure they don't get to use the broadside of doom on you, and if you can douse the deck they won't be able to blow you out of the water with gunpowder artillery.

As for the mages; get them out of the boat, telekinesis is a fun if inefficient option, using summoning or calling spells to distract them also works. Even if the other guy has the spells to get rid of your extraplanar reinforcements; they'll waste valuable time. For obvious reasons, air and water elementals are particularly nasty in sea battles with their special abilities, if you summoning spells, forget about all those outsiders on the list; this is what you want.

Once the mages are dealt with, summon more elementals; air to blow anyone still left on the deck off of it, earth to deal with anyone still inside, and water to give the ship a good rocking (be warned water elementals are the ones most likely to sink the ship). Fire elementals aren't exactly ideal on ships you want to capture until ironclad boats become a thing.

When you get long ranged guns mounted on steam ships, you'll never get close enough for your characters to even do anything to the other guy. The vast majority of spells simply aren't capable of touching the guy some 20 odd miles away lobbing shells the size of cars at you at several times the speed of sound.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by FMArthur
Are there any protections you can set up against fire magic besides counterspelling?

In fact, I was just about to ask this myself. There's Quench and Cloudburst, but those are reactive rather than proactive, and would cause other issues with visibility and etc. Some sort of fire-suppression spell would be ideal, but I can't recall ever having seen one. This is probably because, all else being equal, PCs would much rather start fires than put them out. :smallannoyed:

I seem to recall that the mythal in Silverymoon prevents fire spells from being cast, but I think it's worked into the mythal seed rather than being a separate spell. Does anyone know of any spell that damps down on fires? I agree this would be considered absolutely vital by any mariner who'd heard of it, and it's probably something the trading company would be willing to pay for, despite their skinflinty ways on everything else.

And, this is what we call a segue into the next very good question:


Originally Posted by Czin
How advanced in general is your world?

This is nominally set in the Forgotten Realms, with the trading company based in Waterdeep; the PCs will be taking passage to other lands of my own creation.

Ships in the Forgotten Realms...are frustrating, because the folks at WoTC seem to use them as window-dressing rather than carefully thinking them through. As near as I can tell, naval technology in the Realms is early- to mid-Age of Exploration, with galleons and caravels occasionally mentioned. Waterdeep: City of Splendors lists several vaguely historical ship types, and the city's small navy seems to rely on oared galleys that roughly correspond to Venetian galleys from the mid-1500s.

For my game, I'm advancing this somewhat to allow for frigates from the Napoleonic era, since I'm most familiar with that type from reading the Patrick O'Brian novels (for instance, H.M.S. Surprise (http://www.amazon.com/Surprise-Vol-Aubrey-Maturin-Novels/dp/0393037037/)). I don't want full cannons, because that completely changes the dynamic of ship-to-ship encounters, but I also want to at least give a nod to smokepowder, which crops up frequently in the FRCS. For the moment I'm thinking of using something ballista-ey, but supplementing this with versos, which are very light rail-mounted swivel guns. Cook had something similar on the Endeavour, which is what I'm modeling the frigate on, so it seemed to fit. These are still considered experimental, though--and the captain doesn't trust them--so most ship-to-ship action will be fought between crews at grappling range, at least to start off.



EDIT: Just looked up Regal Procession, which is awesome. It's a third-level spell, which wouldn't fit into this first encounter, but I'll definitely keep it in mind for the next naval engagement. The only thing better than horses running on deck is horses appearing in the rigging. :smallbiggrin:

[Slipperychicken]

True, true. And once you've boarded and taken their ship, and want to sail her back as a prize--or add her to your fighting squadron--you have no sails and no movement.


Bring extra sails.

For fire protection, make/enchant your sails out of some kind of fire-resistant nonsense (there has to be something out there), or get some elementals to move your ship for you.

[Ksheep]

Acid Splash on the rigging. Eat through the rope with acid and the sails will just start flapping in the wind. After the battle, it wouldn't be too difficult to get it back under control, but during the battle they won't waste their time trying to grab a flailing rope.

EDIT: For the fire prevention, it was common practice during Napoleonic time to simply wet the sails before battle for two reasons: fire suppression, and to get a little bit more speed out of them (See: O'Brian novels). You could do something similar. Also, chances of the side of the ship catching fire is slim-to-none, as it's large chunks of wood that are constantly getting sea spray thrown up on them.

[Palanan]

I agree about wetting the sails; that's come up several times in the earlier O'Brian novels, and by that time it had already been done for centuries. Crews would often set out barrels on deck as well, and sometimes even the ship's boats were filled with seawater, to have as much on hand as possible.

However, I'm not quite sure what you mean about the sides of the ship not catching fire; if you mean the outer hull above the waterline, that's probably true, although I doubt anyone took it lightly. Here's a timely quote from The Galleon by Peter Kirsch:


"A continuing theme in these reports is the fear held by sailors of old of their wooden vessels catching fire....Fire on board was an even greater danger than an enemy's energetic attacks."

So, as FMArthur mentioned earlier, mariners would certainly want any possible protection against fire, which is why a fire-suppression spell would be so useful. Not something reactive, but something that would prevent ordinary fires from igniting at all. If anyone knows a good spell for this, or could suggest an easy homebrew, I'd love to hear it.

Also, about Acid Splash on the rigging: excellent idea. A couple of Lesser Orbs of Acid could do some serious damage.

[Ksheep]

Fire would still be a problem, yes. However, this is probably weather dependent. If it's fairly calm weather, than the deck is probably dry enough to be lit by burning pitch or if the sails/rigging is lit. However, if there's any rough seas, especially if they have green water (water coming across the deck), then there's almost no chance of fire lighting… which brings up the idea of using some sort of weather control for fire prevention. Less likely for the enemy to even try to light it if there's a rainstorm, just watch out for lightning.

Also, for my early comment, I was thinking of a flaming arrow to the side of the hull, which would not be enough heat (typically) to light the wooden planks. However, I did forget about some common waterproofing practices, ie. using rather flammable pitch to seal the cracks. Depending on weather conditions and type of ship, this may be mitigated by waves or sea spray, but as I said, it could be a problem in calm weather.

[Jeraa]

Don't use Acid Splash on the rigging. Use Animate Rope. Make the rigging (or other ropes) start grappling the enemy crew.

Glitterdust to blind the defenders before boarding.

A scroll of Stinking Cloud used before you board to clear the deck. Let the vapors dissipate before boarding, though.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Ksheep
*useful thoughts*

Okay, I'm with you, especially on the green water. And I see what you mean about the fire arrows and the outer hull. Becalmed, that could be a real problem, although under those conditions it would be less likely for an enemy to easily close. (Unless we bring oars into it....)

The various comments about weather control remind me of the Stormwatcher (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203642), an excellent homebrew base class from here in the Playground. Now there's something every ship should have. :smallbiggrin:



EDIT: Animate Rope, already noted above; much potential aboard a vessel with thousands of feet of rigging. And Glitterdust could have some interesting uses as well.

[Bolithio]

Ive run a fair amount of ship on ship encounters. If you are going for exciting - somewhat cinematic - ship combat, casters in the party can really through off the balance in the maneuvering phases, considering the range of fireball and spells like it. The classic sea battles I tend to love are at odds with a magical world. Would not every boat have a spellcaster(s) on in it?

My solution was to force a spellcraft check for casters to effectively target a moving ship from a distance. Not only is the boat they are in moving, but the so is the target ship. Even if the caster could read the enemies captains mind, it is going to be difficult to place that 20' radius effectively. I would more or less adhoc the DCs, loosely based on the distance and weather conditions.

If you are running a maritime campaign, I would not allow the Sea Witch PsC. But they do make a good villain.

Also, don't forget about Control Water!

[Ksheep]

My solution was to force a spellcraft check for casters to effectively target a moving ship from a distance. Not only is the boat they are in moving, but the so is the target ship. Even if the caster could read the enemies captains mind, it is going to be difficult to place that 20' radius effectively. I would more or less adhoc the DCs, loosely based on the distance and weather conditions.


Reminds me of one of the Drizzt books. At one point, bumbling wizard finds himself on a ship at sea that's being attacked by pirates. He decides to help by using Fireball… aimed at the front of the ship, at the waterline. It goes off in a puff of steam, failing to do any damage to the ship, whilst giving the ship a smokescreen to escape through. Needless to say, the captain of the ship was NOT happy.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Bolithio
The classic sea battles I tend to love are at odds with a magical world. Would not every boat have a spellcaster(s) in it?

I think one of the major constraints would have to be cost. Past the first couple levels, spellcasters don't come cheap. A sailing master, or the trading company that owns the ship, would have to compensate a spellcaster rather nicely for their time--probably more than all the rest of the crew combined, which is money that can't be used for outfitting the ship, to say nothing of profits. Absent any special circumstances, that would be an unsustainable expense.

Also, most sea voyages would involve weeks or months of grinding tedium, confined to a cramped wooden world populated with folks who, for the most part, can't really discuss the finer points of thaumaturgic field modulation. It might be a good time to catch up on some reading, or learn some really good knots, but for the most part it'll be time spent away from spell research and high-value adventuring. Past the first few levels, I don't think there would be too many volunteers.

[deuxhero]

Doesn't killing things and taking their stuff count as spell research? I've gotten new spells tons of times from it.


Anyways, there are 2 options

1: Make the caster the leader
2: Don't use wizards, use Sorcerers or Warmages

[gorfnab]

EDIT: Just looked up Regal Procession, which is awesome. It's a third-level spell, which wouldn't fit into this first encounter, but I'll definitely keep it in mind for the next naval engagement. The only thing better than horses running on deck is horses appearing in the rigging. :smallbiggrin:
It's a great spell to cause general chaos with, especially on a ship.
-Have all the horses move to one side of the ship to make it list.
-Horses do have a hoof attack and can also take attacks of opportunity. So basically anyone moving past them who is not charging, not taking only five foot steps, or not tumbling may get kicked.
-Horses weigh alot (1000 to 1500lbs for an average quarter horse) so the ship might start sinking under the weight, especially with multiple castings of the spell.
-The horses could also start chewing through the random rigging, ropes, and lines making it difficult for the crew to control the ship.
-Well placed horses could serve as makeshift barricades for blocking doors and hatches.
-Use the metamagic feat Invisible Spell (CS) for invisible horses :smalltongue:

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by deuxhero
Doesn't killing things and taking their stuff count as spell research? I've gotten new spells tons of times from it.

Well, my point being that spending weeks or months on a sailing ship, where you don't see anything but open ocean for most of those weeks or months, actually keeps you away from the essential adventuring work of killing things and taking their stuff.

For an adventuring character embarking on ship in the context of a campaign, then yes, there should be opportunities to pad your WBL. I was thinking more about the general economics of trading ships carrying spellcasters as part of their normal crew complement, which I don't think would be feasible, at least in most situations.



As for Invisible Spell and horses...wow, that would be disturbingly effective. As one of the handbooks says, Invisible Summon Monster is just fighting dirty, and Invisible Rampaging Horses could create absolute chaos. I don't know enough about the intricacies of game balance to say for sure, but Invisible Spell always seemed pretty overcharged for a feat.

And as far as the weight of horses, I think that would be more of a factor for trampling people (invisibly, of course) rather than a threat to the ship as a whole. I can't find a handy reference on tonnage at the moment, but a single 24-pounder cannon could weigh 5200 lbs., and a well-armed frigate could carry thirty of those.

A whole herd of quarter horses gathered along the starboard rail...well, that would be another story. :smalleek: