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Alex Warlorn
2012-01-25, 06:29 PM
The Final Irony between RC and Xykon I think would be if when Redcloak decided the time had come to dispose of Xykon, or another means to completing the ritual without him fell into his lap, RC tries to betray him, only to find Xykon, had geased, and/or dominated person many of RC's direct subordinates and gave them eye contacts to hide the swirlie eyes long in advance.

Xykon then launches into a speech about goblins that mirror's RC's about the undead. That they exist solely to be used.

I think it would hold great irony and bring things back full circle for Redcloak considering his reasons for follow his deity's scheme in the first place.

PEACH
2012-01-25, 06:40 PM
The problems with that are A: If the ritual is already cast, Redcloak has won, and B: none of the goblins are remotely close to a threat for Redcloak, and Xykon doesn't usually do things so indirectly when he could take Redcloak on (most likely).

Aidan305
2012-01-25, 06:58 PM
The Final Irony between RC and Xykon I think would be if when Redcloak decided the time had come to dispose of Xykon, or another means to completing the ritual without him fell into his lap, RC tries to betray him, only to find Xykon, had geased, and/or dominated person many of RC's direct subordinates and gave them eye contacts to hide the swirlie eyes long in advance.

Xykon then launches into a speech about goblins that mirror's RC's about the undead. That they exist solely to be used.

I think it would hold great irony and bring things back full circle for Redcloak considering his reasons for follow his deity's scheme in the first place.

SoD Spoilers
Xykon has done that. The MitD is under a geas to eat Redcloak if he ever threatens the phylactery.

Vorynn
2012-01-25, 07:13 PM
SoD Spoilers
Xykon has done that. The MitD is under a geas to eat Redcloak if he ever threatens the phylactery.

Slightly incorrect:

Xykon's command to the MitD was, I believe: "If he [Redcloak] ever betrays me, devour him and spit out that shiny gold amulet he wears."

Which is interesting now that the amulet he's wearing isn't the phylactery, I think...

Alex Warlorn
2012-01-25, 07:14 PM
SoD Spoilers
Xykon has done that. The MitD is under a geas to eat Redcloak if he ever threatens the phylactery.

I knew that already. I read the book. That was where I got the idea.

Swordlol
2012-01-25, 08:17 PM
I think RC might win but not as early as we think it will happen.

RC is probably very close to out to running out of spells.

dps
2012-01-27, 10:37 PM
Lol. When I read the bit about eye contacts, the first thing I thought of was the eye-drives from the most recent episode of Doctor Who.

B. Dandelion
2012-01-28, 01:51 AM
...because it's absolutely correct that goblins exist only to be used?

Or because Redcloak was completely wrong about the undead, and unfairly discriminating against them, in a hypocritical way that exactly parallels the treatment of goblins by the PC races?

Without one of the two conditions being in effect, I can't really see the scenario described as "fitting" in a thematic way. I haven't seen an indication there's a real equivalence to the situation of goblins or other humanoids and the undead. The goblins would not want to kill Redcloak. The wights had no problem with killing Tsukiko. Goblins are capable of feeling, of experiencing love, loyalty, and demonstrate a capacity for self-sacrifice. The undead have yet to do so.

Redcloak is a hypocrite, but I don't see that his behavior with Tsukiko really speaks to that central hypocrisy. I, personally, find little things like that "touching" moment with the craftsman to be much more illustrative of how he can be self-serving and sanctimonious at the same time.

I would find it a better and more "ironic" scenario if the goblins willingly turned on him, after realizing what he truly was.

"But I did all this for you! For our people!"
"Did you, really?"

The Pilgrim
2012-01-28, 08:16 AM
The difference between Xykon doing that to Redloack, and what Redcloak did with Tsukiko, is that the Goblins (as any other sentient being) would get saving throws for resisting orders that go against their beliefs. While the Wights got nothing, because Undead really exist solely to be used.

Bulldog Psion
2012-01-28, 06:48 PM
Not to mention that I doubt a bunch of magically compelled level 1 hobgoblins would do more than make RC cast one mid-level spell to slaughter them.