Infinite GP with Nolzurs Marvellous Pigments?

[TeddySlayer]

Hi all!
Ok, so a couple of us are playing a campaign where the DM has agreed to allow us to use anything in Core, but he has limited us rather heavily on starting gold (we are starting level 10). One of the starting items that he gave my rogue is Nolzurs Marvellous Pigments, so I was wondering if I could use this to make a ton of cash, so let me know if the following could work:

With Pigments I can make any normal armour, including Fullplate. The DM might argue that my rogue cant paint it as he isnt clued up on armoursmithing, but I'm sure that with the help of the party fighter (who is an armoursmith) and using a set of fullplate as a template I could create this armour.

Now the complex bit. I'm limited to painting 1000 cubic feet with the Pigments. Fullplate weights 50lbs and its safe to assume that its weight is mostly steel with small amount of leather straps, etc. The density of steel is 0.2836lb/in^3 so that 0.102 cubic feet of steel per suit of fullplate, meaning 1 pot of Nolzurs Marvellous Pigments can create about 9800 suits of fullplate. At 1500gp a pop, thats almost 15 million GP!

(Does that top bit make sense?)

Ok, now I know the DM is not going to be happy about this, but in his campaign setting there is already a huge 'World War' going on, so I think selling off this armour at a discount price to one of the generals should be easy enough.

The only issue I forsee is the DM saying that our pot of Pigments is the only one in existance, so we can't repeat it, but with that kind of cash, surely we could get a few more pots 'Wished' into existance for us?

What do you think?

[Ravens_cry]

It's not QUITE that simple. The cubic footage is the amount of the item, not the matter if you squished it it solid. And suit of full plate armour is about the cubic feet of an adult of whatever race its made for.
Also, depending on DM reading,
The user can create normal weapons, armor, and any other mundane item (including foodstuffs) whose value does not exceed 2,000 gp could mean per item as you assume or total of a single pot of pigments. RAW may favour the former, but RAI is more likely the latter and more likely to be used by most DM.
Depending on your DM however, you could make paste and glass gems, and Bluff that they are worth whatever they appear to be.

[grarrrg]

Ignoring the other problems (such as the $2000 limit mentioned above)


meaning 1 pot of Nolzurs Marvellous Pigments can create about 9800 suits of fullplate.

How long will it take you to paint OVER 9000!!!!! suits of armor?
Assume you can paint 1 suit of armor each hour.
This sounds similar to Crafting, and you can only craft 8 hours a day.
9000 / 8 = 1,125 days.
1,125 / 365 = just over 3 YEARS, of doing (almost) nothing but painting.

It kind of takes the "quick" out of "Get rich quick scheme".

[TeddySlayer]

Ok, I agree that volume thing could be a problem, but is that 2000gp a limit per item (it doesn't say 'total value cannot exceed 2000')? If so, then surely I could still squeeze a decent number of fullplates out of it, maybe not 9000, but at least enough to make some decent cash.

What would you reckon is the volume of a fullplate?


Ignoring the other problems (such as the $2000 limit mentioned above)



How long will it take you to paint OVER 9000!!!!! suits of armor?
Assume you can paint 1 suit of armor each hour.
This sounds similar to Crafting, and you can only craft 8 hours a day.
9000 / 8 = 1,125 days.
1,125 / 365 = just over 3 YEARS, of doing (almost) nothing but painting.

It kind of takes the "quick" out of "Get rich quick scheme".

Remember, I don't actually have to paint the item. I just have to visualize it and the paint will magically form the image over a 10 minute period. The DC15 craft(painting) check seems to just be whether it fails or not. But, assuming the party works in shifts throughout the day, we could create 144 items per day.

Ok, my get rich quick scheme may be a little flawed, but other that just making fake gems and tricking people how else can this turn a profit?

[TeddySlayer]

Ey, seems something similar has been discussed before:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118704

Looks like its just a matter of how the DM interprets the rules.

[Ravens_cry]

Assuming the 'per item' interpretation, lots and lots of salt? Salt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/wealthAndMoney.htm#wealthOtherThanCoins) is worth 50 gold a pound. One cubic foot of fine salt is 75 pounds (http://www.reade.com/Particle_Briefings/spec_gra2.html). Therefore, 1000 cubic feet of salt is 75,000 gp, a 71,000 gp profit.
EDIT: NtS: don't do maths when tired. It's actually 3,750,000 gp.
This is assuming you can find a buyer and can transport the stuff, one of my sticking points as a DM.

[grarrrg]

Remember, I don't actually have to paint the item. I just have to visualize it and the paint will magically form the image over a 10 minute period. The DC15 craft(painting) check seems to just be whether it fails or not. But, assuming the party works in shifts throughout the day, we could create 144 items per day.

First off: Note to self, READ the item in question, don't assume.

Secondly: There is a flavor disconnect. "Paint" implies HAVING TO PAINT. Not just "imaginging" things...

Thirdish: Even at 144 per day, that is still over 2 months of doing nothing but "paint".

[Calmar]

Possibility a): Talk to the DM if it is truly necessary that you don't get more starting gold. > Either get more gold or not; > accept his decission.

Possibility b): Try to abuse game mechanics to create gold out of thin air > Annoy him by doing so > ruin game.

[Ravens_cry]

Calmar:
I agree with this. If your DM is restricting starting gold, trying to cheese around it is not conducive to a happy gaming experience for all parties.

[Darrin]

Now the complex bit. I'm limited to painting 1000 cubic feet with the Pigments. Fullplate weights 50lbs and its safe to assume that its weight is mostly steel with small amount of leather straps, etc. The density of steel is 0.2836lb/in^3 so that 0.102 cubic feet of steel per suit of fullplate, meaning 1 pot of Nolzurs Marvellous Pigments can create about 9800 suits of fullplate. At 1500gp a pop, thats almost 15 million GP!


I addressed this in that other thread... but there are two limitations on the pigment that you need to be aware of. There's the square footage (or cubic footage) limit, and there's also a 2000 GP limit.

Due to the way the item description is worded, it's not clear if the 2000 GP limit is on a "per item" basis or applies to all items as a whole. (In my own campaign, I used a total GP limit, since it was easier to calculate than the square footage of various items). Under that interpretation, you could get one set of fullplate for 1500 GP, and would have 500 GP worth of pigments left over.

If you can get your DM to agree that the 2000 GP limit is per item, then you're much better off painting a 10' x 10' x 10' room full of nothing but vials of poison, such as black lotus extract or deathblade from the DMG. I don't recall if I ever went through the math for the "10' cube of poison", but off the top of my head I'd guess you could get several billion GP worth of poison out of one set of pigments.

[Tyndmyr]

Rules or not, do you really think your GM is going to let you turn this into nigh-infinite wealth?

I'm gonna guess no.

[hydraa]

Pigment a spell book (maybe 750-1000 of them),
Rogue forges spells in it (perhaps have the wiz scribe the first page with a level 1 spell,
Sell it
then run very far away with the gold before the buyer has time to examine all 1 million pages


Create something to get you the services of a 4th spell level caster (normally 360 gp).
Get wall of salt (Sandstorm) cast. (9 inches thick by 9-5 ft squares = 303.75 cu ft)
Mine the salt. (135 lbs of salt per cu ft | 5 gp per lb of salt) = 205031.25 gp less mining and production costs)

[Chronos]

Never, ever try to pull one over on your DM. It won't work. You need to ask your DM what interpretation he's using, and go along with whatever he says.