Too much to ask of a PC

[Draig]

In my group of players I am pretty much the permanent DM, which I don't mind at all. Every adventure and campaign that the party does I create from scratch, the world, the npc's, the political air, the history, etc. Is all made from scratch and I never reuse an idea. My players love this and are always asking me to keep this up, but recently we have hit a little snag. As tradition when a campaign ends I write epilogues of the PC's and some of my players submit backstories (at the beginning of the campaign) and these players are the ones who get more in depth epilogues.

Now here is where the snag is. The PC's who do submit back stories have asked the other players to do so as well. The 2 players who were asked originally agreed but now 1 individual has stated that he is too busy to waste his time on a backstory for his char. Now normally I wouldn't let something like this bother me but of all my players and myself included, this troublesome person works part time (the rest of us are full time) and has the least amount of responsibility. And as a DM that births everything for the players this bothered me.

So I digress, my question for the playground is,
Is It too much to require a player to write a background for his/her character? And if you were in my place how would you handle this?

[Mystify]

How in-depth are we talking here?
"I come a village of elves in the woods, and trained as a hunter before seeking adventure", or a in-depth biography of all their childhood freinds, hopes, and dreams?

[legomaster00156]

Let it go. He can make up his backstory as he goes along, if he's interested at all in roleplaying.

[Godskook]

Easiest way to handle it is to simply add quite a few rewards based on backstory into your campaigns(based in part on quality). Warn him you're starting this trend while he still has time to submit one. And now everyone's happy. You're happy cause the problem is 'solved'. The players who submit backstories are happy cause they're rewarded for doing so. The player who doesn't submit a backstory is happy cause he's chosen the road he wants to take(If he's not actually happy, then he's actively choosing not to be happy, and that's not your fault).

[Hyudra]

Keep in mind that some people have different degrees of skill when it comes to creating stuff.

Just speaking for myself, I find it really easy to come up with ideas. I love it, it energizes me, it's what gets me excited about the game, as much or more than playing it. That might be the case for you as well, Draig.

But someone else could just as easily be the sort that struggles to create. Maybe they're not very good at it and they're aware of that fact, maybe people have gotten on their case about it before, or it's just a very slow process that they get very easily distracted from.

That's fine. Everyone has a different style.

I might suggest, instead of getting on his case, just going with it. Find an in-story way to get him to divulge more details. The most blatant would be a barmaid, attractive in a 'girl next door' sort of way, who flirts and asks him his story. If he divulges, maybe she shows him some interest. If not, maybe she turns her attention to the next guy.

[Otomodachi]

Yeah, I want to support the general tone of the previous replies... it's not really asking too much, and yes, DMing is a HUGE load of work especially if you want to be able to take pride in your work. What you're asking seems totally fair to me.

And yet, honestly, it doesn't necessarily mean you have the slightest chance of getting what you ask for, ya know? I mean, is it worth starting real friction over, to you?

[Mari01]

Just speaking for myself, I find it really easy to come up with ideas. I love it, it energizes me, it's what gets me excited about the game, as much or more than playing it.


This right here. I definitely feel this way especially when making someone whose alignment/deity plays a major role. Character background creation to me is really important, even if starting out its "Elf from Elven village".

[Tamer Leon]

I have some DMs that require detailed backstories. This is fine, because I enjoy writing, but...

When I have a full backstory right off, it eliminates the aspect of discovery about the character, which I enjoy.

Every character I've ever made that was genuinely memorable to me started as a very simple character concept. That condescending albino kid with psychic powers and dead parents. That bard who could never seem to keep it in his pants but knew a lot of people he shouldn't, or the sorcerer that openly practiced necromancy, but at the same time managed to stay neutral good?

All three started as fairly bland and 'simple' concepts, but they all evolved over time and, as the campaign progressed, they became steadily more complex as elements of their backstories were 'revealed'.

Characters created this way seem, in my opinion, to be far more organic than ones with everything important just listed in their character sheet, because I, the DM, and the other players alike slowly get to know the character over time.

No character that's ever started 'fully formed' has ever really stuck with me like that. I can easily forget the short-lived adventures of Sergei the warblade, or Jaina the Evoker. However...

I'll always remember those characters who grew up with me. It's just better storytelling, in my opinion.

[Zaq]

Some people are just better at this sort of thing than others. This player may simply not be comfortable making this sort of thing, and they might be giving you an excuse. If you think that might be the case, you might try to help the player out, or ask one of the other players to do so—work together to come up with something, rather than making him do it all on his own.

Of course, if the player has been with you for a while and has easily come up with backstories before, what I suggested might not be the case. That said, it seems to me from what you've said that this player might just not be the most creative type, and they're giving you an excuse because they don't want to just admit that they're not very good at this sort of thing.

You know the player better than I do, but I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[TheDon]

I may be harsher then most, however I find laziness to be a big pet peeve. If he's too busy to write a backstory then he's too busy to game. He can sit down and write his backstory while the other players are gaming. If he needs help creating it because he has no idea or lacks the skills, the other players or myself can nudge him in the right direction.

[Dimers]

this troublesome person works part time (the rest of us are full time) and has the least amount of responsibility.

He might also have chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, chronic depression or what-have-you. It's quite possible that making a decent background requires too much gumption for this guy, so much that it won't matter if it's well-rewarded or if the lack of a background is punished. (Also, in before the "yeah but": even if he does other things that you think should require more energy, that doesn't mean they require that amount of effort in his life.) About a third of the people I know socially have some major area in their life where they just can't put in the time for some basic task.

If I happened to be in your position, my first choice would be offering to sit down for an hour or two outside of group time to create a background together. Knowing most of the world-specific stuff, you can give a lot of suggestions and pin down broad categories quickly. Go get a coffee together and get it done. If that's not possible, I'd want a nonjudgemental discussion of why the guy can't/won't do the background -- could provide some insight into a better solution. And if that isn't an option either, I'd let him be the way he is. It's imperfect for your game, but it won't cause things to grind to a halt, from the sound of it.

[Draig]

First off this is why I love coming to the playground, where a vast number of different people and opinions come together.

To hit a few key points.

Yes, I have an amazing time just creating the world and the adventures, for me that's half the game right there.

Yes, this player has made amazing back stories for the group before but lately has been becoming edgey with the group.

No, I do not require that it be an amazingly in depth back story. I've told my players my philosophy on building characters and the philosophy is "You birth it, we raise it, and ill bury it"

Also I have rewarded players for their backstories in the past and its never anything huge but the players like being rewarded for it. Once I even told a player that even though his starting gold didn't allow him to buy all the armor and weapons he needed that if he gave me a good back story (I was expecting maybe a paragraph or two) that I would give them to him as a freebie.... The next day he gave me a 5 page paper (front and back) about how he got the items.

So some of my players are amazing with their creativity and others are rusty but the fact is every player in the group at one time or another has written me a good back story it is just now that he decides to make a deal of it.

[NikitaDarkstar]

To me it sounds like the background isn't the issue at all, it's just a manifestation of the real problem. Take the time to talk to him, figure out whats going on. Maybe he 's having personal issues, issues with someone in the group, bored with the type of games you guys are playing, or maybe he just genuinely feels he doesn't have the time for it.

But figure it out, figure out if he really wants to play anymore or not and if he does, help him get at least a few notes down about the character.

[Templarkommando]

What I did in my most recent campaign was implement reward XP for writing a backstory. Part of my likes a little bit of disparity where experience in concerned, and this gave me a chance to reward someone who tries to flesh out their character.

For a low level starting campaign I figured 1000 XP was enough to make is so that players that spend the time to flesh out their character have enough of an advantage to justify their writing a backstory.

The biggest problem that I see about this now is that as the party increases in level 1000 XP means less and less. One option would be that if your character dies, or you otherwise reroll to give more XP for each experience level that the party has achieved, but depending on how you run that, you can make it unfair for the characters that actually survive through your campaign, and you can also get characters that reroll just to get the extra experience buff as it increases. (I've had PCs tried to get themselves killed off in order to get the next levels wealth level).

The more that I think about it, the more I think that a percentage increase of experience is more appropriate.I'd have to test it though. Let me explain what I mean. In 2nd ed if your character's primary skill was 16 or higher you got like a 10% experience increase. succeeding editions did away with this, but what I could do is increase all experience received by characters with a backstory by 10% or so.

[ericgrau]

Players shouldn't need to write backstories if they don't want to. Maybe he's lazy or whatever, but it's game. Let people do what they enjoy as long as it doesn't hurt the fun of the remaining players.

If having a backstory is integral to the plot then make him write out the minimum necessary to fit him into the plot, even if that's 4 sentences. If not, then don't require anything. If it bothers other players that his PC might turn out 2 dimensional, then a forced backstory that he hates to write won't fix that.

[Draig]

Let people do what they enjoy as long as it doesn't hurt the fun of the remaining players.

If having a backstory is integral to the plot


That is where the snag happens. It's become a problem because when the other players swap about their backstory's and have an in-depth rp this player gets bored and becomes disruptive.

And often times the backstory is not just integral to the plot but structural. One player's backstory tied in heavily because the party asked them for help and the family was a plot hook. Another character was a citizen of the other warring nation and unfolded an amazing RP between himself and the native PC's.

So yes I would say that for the most part backstories are major in my campaigns because nothing in my world is 2 Dimensional.

[Averis Vol]

AS a DM i require atleast some form of backstory. because one, it gives me more plot hooks to throw at the PC's whom i ultimately love twisting around like fine twine. two it makes them a PERSON i like to hear about Ragnathor Shale the half ogre who was found at the edge of life by clerics of heironeus and was saved, then decided that if they were this good then their god must be even kinder so he devotes himself to the faith rather then Jarg the fighter who grew up in a city that way we're never going. and Three it shows me they want to play, plain and simple, it requires initiative and some manner of thought. but thats me, and even the worst RP'er in my group can come up with "i was from the tribe of twin daggers and grew up by the blade......"

but that's me of course.

[Mystify]

It sound like this player's style is not the same as the rest of the group. That is a tricky situation. The rest of the group wants to role play, and he doesn't. Its generally best to have a group who is one the same page with such matters, or at least is entertained enough watching the rest of the group role play, even if they do not get into that aspect themselves. Forcing him to create a backstory isn't going to magically make him care about the role playing more.
I'm not saying you should kick him out of the group, but perhaps you need to have a discussion about what the group is trying to do. If he doesn't want to get deeply involved in the role-playing, he shouldn't have to, but he needs to not disrupt the game.
If the rest of the players have their backstories, you can weave those into the role playing, and integrate them into the story. It shouldn't be too difficult to leave his character out of that process if he is not interested. The other characters should provide enough material to work with.

In short, work with him to make sure the group functions, but don't try to force him into the role-playing side if its not to his tastes.

[Orsen]

I'll often ask my players for a backstory when they come in with a new character. They can do it however they want but I was linked to this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19713850/The_Ten-Minute_Background--Post_your_characters!) once and since then I use it for my own characters and most my players do too. If you're worried about effort, ask him for a smaller amount then the whole process suggests. Just five general points about the character is a great way to get the player to start thinking about the character and who they are/may become. Of course if it's really about a different issue then this won't help much.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

Make one for him ... a dirty one. Nex

[Helldog]

Make one for him ... a dirty one. Nex
Jeezus Christ is this annoying. :smallsigh:

[Dimers]

when the other players swap about their backstory's and have an in-depth rp this player gets bored and becomes disruptive.

It's certainly not too much to ask of a player that they not act jerky. The problem isn't about an investment of time/energy to make backstory -- it's that he has a different playstyle and doesn't seem willing to do any give-and-take to get some of what he wants.

[Drathmar]

In my group of players I am pretty much the permanent DM, which I don't mind at all. Every adventure and campaign that the party does I create from scratch, the world, the npc's, the political air, the history, etc. Is all made from scratch and I never reuse an idea. My players love this and are always asking me to keep this up, but recently we have hit a little snag. As tradition when a campaign ends I write epilogues of the PC's and some of my players submit backstories (at the beginning of the campaign) and these players are the ones who get more in depth epilogues.

Now here is where the snag is. The PC's who do submit back stories have asked the other players to do so as well. The 2 players who were asked originally agreed but now 1 individual has stated that he is too busy to waste his time on a backstory for his char. Now normally I wouldn't let something like this bother me but of all my players and myself included, this troublesome person works part time (the rest of us are full time) and has the least amount of responsibility. And as a DM that births everything for the players this bothered me.

So I digress, my question for the playground is,
Is It too much to require a player to write a background for his/her character? And if you were in my place how would you handle this?

Personally I don't think so. The DM in the campaign I just started is making everyone have a backstory, minimum of 2 paragraphs, because he wants people to have actual characters instead of playing numbers on a sheet.

Your campaign sounds like it would be roleplay heavy, like ours, and backstories should be required.

Now if its going to be a mostly hack and slash (constant combat, dungeon delving, puzzle solving stuff with little to no rp) then I would let it go.


I have some DMs that require detailed backstories. This is fine, because I enjoy writing, but...

When I have a full backstory right off, it eliminates the aspect of discovery about the character, which I enjoy.

Every character I've ever made that was genuinely memorable to me started as a very simple character concept. That condescending albino kid with psychic powers and dead parents. That bard who could never seem to keep it in his pants but knew a lot of people he shouldn't, or the sorcerer that openly practiced necromancy, but at the same time managed to stay neutral good?

All three started as fairly bland and 'simple' concepts, but they all evolved over time and, as the campaign progressed, they became steadily more complex as elements of their backstories were 'revealed'.

Characters created this way seem, in my opinion, to be far more organic than ones with everything important just listed in their character sheet, because I, the DM, and the other players alike slowly get to know the character over time.

No character that's ever started 'fully formed' has ever really stuck with me like that. I can easily forget the short-lived adventures of Sergei the warblade, or Jaina the Evoker. However...

I'll always remember those characters who grew up with me. It's just better storytelling, in my opinion.

Difference of style really, that's like... retconning in backstory as you think of it as your play.

Storytelling would be creating a story with your present actions instead :p, at least in my opinion.

[AJ11]

{Scrubbed} The real question is this: Is his character's background going to have a bearing on the campaign?

If not, how is this different than "You guys meet in an inn. You hear a scream outside."?

How I would approach it is to lay out the setting for them, and then tell them that you want them to know each other before and will be able to work together. For example:

"This setting has a university, and I would like you guys to somehow have ties to this university. The university sponsors a lot of archeological style digs and searches, so feel free to think of your characters as Indianna Jones if you want, or just plain lecturers in the university. You would also have met and worked together before. I'll leave it up to you to determine how. Please create characters that can and have worked together before because this part is important to the start of the campaign."

[Drathmar]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote} The real question is this: Is his character's background going to have a bearing on the campaign?

If not, how is this different than "You guys meet in an inn. You hear a scream outside."?


Most DM's who want a back story are generally also going to use them in the campaign.

Also... if I ever had a campaign start 'you guys meet in an inn. You hear a scream outside.' that would probably be my only session in that campaign cause that doesn't fit my style, and it sounds from the OPers post that it wouldn't fit his group either, they seem to be very RP centric.


How I would approach it is to lay out the setting for them, and then tell them that you want them to know each other before and will be able to work together. For example:

"This setting has a university, and I would like you guys to somehow have ties to this university. The university sponsors a lot of archeological style digs and searches, so feel free to think of your characters as Indianna Jones if you want, or just plain lecturers in the university. You would also have met and worked together before. I'll leave it up to you to determine how. Please create characters that can and have worked together before because this part is important to the start of the campaign."

This would actually require at least a small backstory from each player in regards to their position in the university as well as them doing it all together so they can decide how they know each other.

[tiercel]

Yes, this player has made amazing back stories for the group before but lately has been becoming edgey with the group.
...
...it is just now that he decides to make a deal of it.
...
It's become a problem because when the other players swap about their backstory's and have an in-depth rp this player gets bored and becomes disruptive.

Your problem isn't the backstory/lack thereof. You've got another problem -- either you have a personality conflict between players (because of something in game, or outside the game) or you have some kind of real-life issues intruding in the case of this player... whether he is feeling stressed, down, whatever, and is possibly just looking for game sessions where he can blow off some steam.

Whatever the problem is, insisting on a backstory won't solve it. You're going to have to talk to your player and try to find out what the problem is -- whether he just wants something different from the game, or has some kind of real life issue going on. Ideally, people don't drag their issues to the gaming table; ideally, a DM never has to be a babysitter/counselor.

Unfortunately, sometimes you have to try to help manage players' problems when they affect the game. (And if it's not just a game issue he's having, maybe he needs someone to get him to talk it out, more than a line of orc-necks to hew or a dynastic intrigue to get embroiled in.)

*shrugs* It is one of those things -- it's amazing how many problems can be addressed by "just talk with your DM/player."