Cheese Request: Multiple level 5 ACFs

[tuesdayscoming]

Is there ANY way – any way at all – that, by RAW, I can select two different level 5 wizard ACFs?

I'm working on a pet project character, and my life would be much easier if there was some way to pull this off.

[sreservoir]

only if they don't replace the same feature.

mind: preventing you from using a feature may or may not actually count as replacing it. depends on the wording.

[Darrin]

Is there ANY way – any way at all – that, by RAW, I can select two different level 5 wizard ACFs?

I'm working on a pet project character, and my life would be much easier if there was some way to pull this off.

Which ACFs do you need? (If it's domain wizard, there's a way to get domain powers via Planar Touchstone.)

[tuesdayscoming]

I'm trying to get the Changeling feature that let's your familiar shape change into any type of familiar you could have. Then, I'm trying to get the ACF that makes your paladin mount your familiar. High One Warrior-Wizard from Complete Champion's web enhancement, if I recall correctly.

I'm afraid I'm just not going to be able to find a way to get both features, though...

Alternatively, anyone know of an alternative way to have the same effect as the latter ACF?

[Feytalist]

Since it's for level 5, I assume they both replace the bonus wizard feat, yes? In which case, you can't take both. I'm AFB though, so I can't say for sure.

[tuesdayscoming]

Since it's for level 5, I assume they both replace the bonus wizard feat, yes? In which case, you can't take both. I'm AFB though, so I can't say for sure.

Alas, they do.

So now, how else to make my paladin mount count as a familiar... Hmm...

[Person_Man]

Wizard gets the Share Spells ability with it's Familiar, as do Paladins with their Special Mount. You can cast Alter Self or Polymorph or any similar spell, and your Familiar can also benefit as if you had cast the spell on them.

[Darrin]

Alternatively, anyone know of an alternative way to have the same effect as the latter ACF?

Yes, but it's somewhat complicated... essentially a variation on the Supermount build:

1) Take 5 levels of Paladin or some other PrC that gives you a Special Mount.
2) Get an animal companion from somewhere, such as the Simple Wizard variant from UA that swaps your familiar for an animal companion. Or Druid/Ranger/Mystic Ranger/Prestige Ranger/Beastmaster/Savage Bard will work.
3) If you haven't already, dip 1 level of Ranger for Track and Wild Empathy. Take the Devoted Tracker feat from Complete Adventurer so that your animal companion now counts as your special mount.
4) Get the Trackless Step feature from somewhere, such as Druid, Wildrunner, or Bamboo Spirit Folk (Oriental Adventures).
5) Assuming you can cast 2nd level divine and arcane spells, take 1 level of Arcane Hierophant. Your animal companion/special mount now gains the benefit of being your familiar.

Presumably at that point, you no longer need High One Warrior-Wizard. You can use your Wizard 5 ACF for whatever you like.

[Rossebay]

Yes, but it's somewhat complicated... essentially a variation on the Supermount build:

1) Take 5 levels of Paladin or some other PrC that gives you a Special Mount.
2) Get an animal companion from somewhere, such as the Simple Wizard variant from UA that swaps your familiar for an animal companion. Or Druid/Ranger/Mystic Ranger/Prestige Ranger/Beastmaster/Savage Bard will work.
3) If you haven't already, dip 1 level of Ranger for Track and Wild Empathy. Take the Devoted Tracker feat from Complete Adventurer so that your animal companion now counts as your special mount.
4) Get the Trackless Step feature from somewhere, such as Druid, Wildrunner, or Bamboo Spirit Folk (Oriental Adventures).
5) Assuming you can cast 2nd level divine and arcane spells, take 1 level of Arcane Hierophant. Your animal companion/special mount now gains the benefit of being your familiar.

Presumably at that point, you no longer need High One Warrior-Wizard. You can use your Wizard 5 ACF for whatever you like.

That's awesome. Shapechanging mount, though? Are there any mechanical benefits to this, or is it all just flavor?

[CTrees]

Then, I'm trying to get the ACF that makes your paladin mount your familiar.

Well, everything from dominate person to a high bluff check could conceivably make your paladin mount your familiar, though size will probably be a problem. Also your paladin will have to atone, afterwards.

[tuesdayscoming]

Wizard gets the Share Spells ability with it's Familiar, as do Paladins with their Special Mount. You can cast Alter Self or Polymorph or any similar spell, and your Familiar can also benefit as if you had cast the spell on them.

This is definitely a great point. However, Alter Self requires the expenditure of spell slots, and has limitations on the type of creatures you can turn in to.

As I talk about a little bit below, the point of this build is to have the freedom to do this all day long, and to open up the shapeshifting to creatures of all sorts.


Yes, but it's somewhat complicated... essentially a variation on the Supermount build:

1) Take 5 levels of Paladin or some other PrC that gives you a Special Mount.
2) Get an animal companion from somewhere, such as the Simple Wizard variant from UA that swaps your familiar for an animal companion. Or Druid/Ranger/Mystic Ranger/Prestige Ranger/Beastmaster/Savage Bard will work.
3) If you haven't already, dip 1 level of Ranger for Track and Wild Empathy. Take the Devoted Tracker feat from Complete Adventurer so that your animal companion now counts as your special mount.
4) Get the Trackless Step feature from somewhere, such as Druid, Wildrunner, or Bamboo Spirit Folk (Oriental Adventures).
5) Assuming you can cast 2nd level divine and arcane spells, take 1 level of Arcane Hierophant. Your animal companion/special mount now gains the benefit of being your familiar.

Presumably at that point, you no longer need High One Warrior-Wizard. You can use your Wizard 5 ACF for whatever you like.

Thank you very much for providing such a detailed entry.

My mind had jumped to Arcane Hierophant as well; I've played the class before and had a great time with it. Re-reading the class description, however, I noticed that it doesn't actually make your animal companion a familiar. Rather, you lose your familiar and apply a specific, enumerated set of familiar-like benefits to your existing animal companion.

This is definitely a good thought. Unfortunately, I don't believe that it works.


That's awesome. Shapechanging mount, though? Are there any mechanical benefits to this, or is it all just flavor?

Well, it's a bit of both. Again, this is just a pet project. I don't think I'll ever play it (even if I do figure out a way to make it work).

With the proper build, you can have an incredibly versatile ally. Even without the mount shenanigans, think about the possibilities with just the Improved Familiar feat.

Need a scout? How 'bout an invisible Imp? Invisible enemies getting you down? Well then, call upon a trusty, true-seeing Beguiler!

Now if we can combine the pally mount and familiar, then things get a bit wackier.

For instance, the feat from Draconomicon that lets you, at higher levels, have a dragon for a mount. :smallamused: