Animate Dead Epic Seed DC Modifier?

[Kobold-Bard]

What would the Playground peg the DC modifiers for the Animate Dead epic spell seed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/seeds/animateDead.htm) at if I were making an Angel of Decay (Libris Mortis p.83) and a Brain in a Jar (same, p.90)?

For quick reference the table shows totals as below:

{table]Undead|Spellcraft DC Modifier
Skeleton|-12
Zombie|-12
Ghoul|-10
Shadow|-8
Ghast|-6
Wight|-4
Wraith|-2
Mummy|+0
Spectre|+2
Mohrg|+4
Vampire|+6
Ghost|+8[/table]

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,
K-B

[Czin]

I'd put the angel of decay at +7 or +8, they primarily are about getting all up in your grill, but they are pretty tough bastards with an impressive ability stat line. Their lack of spell like abilities prevents them from hanging in the same crowd as the nightshades, but as far as purely physical undead go, they're some of the most threatening ones out there.

High hit points, decent damage dealing ability, nice ability stats (especially their strength score which is rather absurdly close to that of the much larger nightwalker), average speed, and an pretty good ac as far as undead go make them pretty nasty. Not to mention that their saving throws are all pretty damned good, especially their will saves. Though it is notable that there are very few things with will saves that affect undead.

[Gullintanni]

For the Angel, I'd put em in at the same level as a Vampire. Defensively, they're tough, but that's about all they've got going for them. Compare to the Ghost whose got etherealness, a much more potent defense than anything that the Angel brings to the table, save, maybe, for the Spell Resistance. But SR 26 at CR 15 means about a 50-50 chance to meet a caster level check without Spell Penetration feats or Caster Level boosts.

The most powerful offensive option it has is its aura, which requires a DC24 Will save to avoid being Nauseated. Compare again to the Ghost, which has Frightful Moan to target low Will saves and panic those that fail, Horrific Appearance that automatically targets Fort saves or deals ability damage, and a touch attack they can use to drain any ability score of their choice.

+6, maybe +7 for the Angel.

Brain in a Jar maybe on par with a Wraith, for no reason other than they can use Dominate Person targeting Fighter/Barbarian will saves and wreak some pretty severe havoc on a party. They're pretty fragile on their own, but extremely dangerous if their attacks succeed.

[Kobold-Bard]

Thanks for the replies.

Since I have the thread up & I'm curious that it's not on the table, where would you put the Devourer from Create G. Undead?

[Czin]

Thanks for the replies.

Since I have the thread up & I'm curious that it's not on the table, where would you put the Devourer from Create G. Undead?

That depends entirely on whether or not it starts with a trapped soul. A devourer with a trapped soul is significantly more threatening than one without one (though even then it's still a pretty nasty beast, though it is something of a glass cannon.)

I would put the devourer somewhere in the +4-+5 range as it's pretty darn fragile (only 78 hit points!) if it has a soul right off of the bat since it can play a pretty good control game (though the DCs for it's effects are kind of laughable). Without a soul it gets bumped down to +3-+4.

[Cieyrin]

That depends entirely on whether or not it starts with a trapped soul. A devourer with a trapped soul is significantly more threatening than one without one (though even then it's still a pretty nasty beast, though it is something of a glass cannon.)

I would put the devourer somewhere in the +4-+5 range as it's pretty darn fragile (only 78 hit points!) if it has a soul right off of the bat since it can play a pretty good control game (though the DCs for it's effects are kind of laughable). Without a soul it gets bumped down to +3-+4.

I would assume without a soul, as you're making the creature, not its extras. It's not like picking up a soul is that hard, either.