[3.5]Gestalt Archery-How do I optimize it

[Howler Dagger]

My goal is to create a level 8 gestalt archer using teh elite array. I have heard archery is hard to optimize, but I really like the idea of an archer. I will be using the elite array (the character is actually a cleric/bard's cohort) for stats. The only sources I know are okay are Races of Stone and Core, but Let's assume the complete series is allowed and so is ToB. I would like minimum dipping. Would ranger or scout be the best way to go, or is there a better alternative?

Also want a more mundane class, so I don't want information on how to optimize a cleric for archery.

[Morcleon]

Soulbow. TWF with your arrows, wisdom to damage. It's found in CPsi. :)

[Seerow]

Soulbow//Cleric would probably be a good bet. Mix in a dash of Fighter for extra feats if you need em and a dip into prestige ranger for the ranger spells, and you're set.

[Namfuak]

You could do one of a few things here. Ranger 8 & Scout 8 with Swift Hunter would give you 4 favored enemies, Skirmish 4d6/AC +4, extra feats, and full BaB, but taking Scout 3/Ranger 5 & Cloistered Cleric8 would give you quite a few more spells and a better will save, although you would take 3/4 BaB for 3 levels (which is only a loss of 1 BaB in total).

One other disadvantage of taking just Scout & Ranger levels is that they have a couple overlapping class features (trackless step, evasion, and hide in plain sight, iirc). If you wanted to go this route, you would probably want to try to find ranger ACFs that remove some of these abilities (Urban ranger comes to mind).

EDIT: Or you could go with soulbow, as others have suggested. I assumed you wanted physical arrows, since you mentioned mundane classes in the OP.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Why don't you gestalt an arcane archer?
Not the most powerful choice, but being able to shoot antimagic fields is kinda stylish.

[Howler Dagger]

Also want a more mundane class, so I don't want information on how to optimize a cleric for archery.

I say this, and you give me Soulbow//Cleric :smallannoyed:?

[Godskook]

I'd go something like:

Scout 1/Ranger 4/Scout +3//Cleric* 1/Swordsage 1/Fighter 5/Swordsage +1

At this point you're rocking 7 feats before racial+flaws(3 from HD, 3 from Fighter, 1 from Scout) as well as Ranger's fighting style and Domain swap from Cleric to get Knowledge Devotion.

1.Improved Initiative
3.Precise Shot
6.Improved Skirmish
F1.Point Blank Shot
F2.Many Shot(you take ranger 2 by level 3 to qualify)
F4.Greater Many Shot
S4.Swift Hunter
C1.Knowledge Devotion

Notes:

1.Soulbow, imho, isn't always worth it, cause its hard to have a high enough Wis to be better than just shooting bane arrows.

2.Splitting is just about the best archery enchantment in the game. Combined with G.Many Shot and K.Devotion for fun and profit.

3.The class positions are to qualify for various feats at the right time, and most should be semi-obvious, but the reason Swordsage 2 is delayed is to qualify for Assassin's Stance.

4.As far as dipping goes, the cleric dip is, imho, unavoidable, as is the ranger/scout split. Swordsage you can drop, and Fighter's mostly for getting access to all your feats asap.

5.Once you start leveling, grabbing ranged weapon mastery via further fighter feats isn't a bad idea.

[deuxhero]

If the limitations are for books on hand over DM preference, Soulknife is in the SRD and Soulbow is a preview.

Soul bow build//Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1/x 19 with Two Weapon Fighting is cool looking if nothing else.

[Manateee]

Tiefling Rogue 20//Wizard 10/Unseen Seer 10

Persist:
-Draconic Polymorph (Arrow Demon)
-Cloud of Knives
-Hunter's Eye

Get rapid shot, knowledge devotion, maybe craven... the usual archery feats.

Every round that you qualify for sneak attack (and with wizard casting, that should be most), you get 10 bow attacks for 140ish damage each (with arrows that can be selected to work around DR), plus 1 attack from cloud of knives for 125ish damage.

And at the same time, your familiar gets 8 bow attacks (3 BA, 1 haste effect, 4 Symmetric Archery) for 50ish damage each, and one cloud of knives attack for 40ish damage.

Each round, your swift action will remain open, in case you want to use it for buffs or movement.

EDIT:
I kind of strayed from the OP there. :smallredface:

For a less magical build, Bard 5/Lyric Thaumaturge 5/Unseen Seer 10//Rogue.
You'd be looking at 125ish damage per arrow from sneak attack, sonic weapon and some basic weapon enhancements, for 5 arrows each round.

For something totally unmagical, Rogue//Warblade/Eternal Blade can get crazy with Mongoose maneuvers and Time Stands still for lots of attacks. With Knowledge Devotion and sneak attack, you can be looking at 1000ish damage in a round without much trouble.

[Urpriest]

I'd go something like:

Scout 1/Ranger 4/Scout +3//Cleric* 1/Swordsage 1/Fighter 5/Swordsage +1

At this point you're rocking 7 feats before racial+flaws(3 from HD, 3 from Fighter, 1 from Scout) as well as Ranger's fighting style and Domain swap from Cleric to get Knowledge Devotion.

1.Improved Initiative
3.Precise Shot
6.Improved Skirmish
F1.Point Blank Shot
F2.Many Shot(you take ranger 2 by level 3 to qualify)
F4.Greater Many Shot
S4.Swift Hunter
C1.Knowledge Devotion

Notes:

1.Soulbow, imho, isn't always worth it, cause its hard to have a high enough Wis to be better than just shooting bane arrows.

2.Splitting is just about the best archery enchantment in the game. Combined with G.Many Shot and K.Devotion for fun and profit.

3.The class positions are to qualify for various feats at the right time, and most should be semi-obvious, but the reason Swordsage 2 is delayed is to qualify for Assassin's Stance.

4.As far as dipping goes, the cleric dip is, imho, unavoidable, as is the ranger/scout split. Swordsage you can drop, and Fighter's mostly for getting access to all your feats asap.

5.Once you start leveling, grabbing ranged weapon mastery via further fighter feats isn't a bad idea.


If you're doing Cleric 1 anyway, why do Manyshot instead of Travel Devotion?

[Namfuak]

If you're doing Cleric 1 anyway, why do Manyshot instead of Travel Devotion?

He took manyshot as a fighter bonus feat, and it doesn't say in the travel devotion description that it can be taken as a fighter bonus feat.

Also, since you would get only 2 uses per day so far as I can tell, it probably is a better choice to go with focusing on maximizing your standard action rather than relying on full attacks anyway.

[Urpriest]

He took manyshot as a fighter bonus feat, and it doesn't say in the travel devotion description that it can be taken as a fighter bonus feat.

Also, since you would get only 2 uses per day so far as I can tell, it probably is a better choice to go with focusing on maximizing your standard action rather than relying on full attacks anyway.

You're taking Cleric 1, so neither of those is a valid concern.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

For a Soulbow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2):

Thri-Kreen (XPH), preferably the nonpsionic version (MM2, Shining South) which has only a +1 LA and loses the naturally psionic and psi-like ability traits. Your level progression will mostly depend on how the racial HD and level adjustment is handled. Ability scores including racial adjustments and two +1's for 8th level should go Str 10, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 19, Cha 6, and get a Periapt of Wisdom since it will be added to your AC, attack rolls, damage rolls, and Will saves.

You'll be starting out either LA +1 or 2/ Monstrous Humanoid 2/ ClassA X// ClassB Y, or you'll start out LA +1 or 2/ ClassA X// Monstrous Humanoid 2/ ClassB Y. It doesn't really matter which one, to be honest.

You don't want to lose any BAB on the build. Those two Monstrous Humanoid HD will give full BAB, so take Soulknife 2 along side of those wherever they happen to be. The rest of your full BAB progression will be Fighter levels, along side of which you'll have your level adjustment and Soulbow levels, and before Soulbow should be filled in with Swordsage.

Here's your level-by-level progressions for each LA/HD setup:

1. LA +1// Monstrous Humanoid 1
2. Soulknife 1// Monstrous Humanoid 2
3. Soulknife 2// Fighter 1
4. Swordsage 1// Fighter 2 (Child of Shadow)
5. Swordsage 2// Fighter 3 (Shadow Jaunt)
6. Soulbow 1// Fighter 4
7. Soulbow 2// Fighter 5
8. Soulbow 3// Fighter 6 (Martial Stance: Dance of the Spider)
9. Soulbow 4// Fighter 7
10. Soulbow 5// Fighter 8
11. Soulbow 6// Fighter 9
12. Soulbow 7// Fighter 10
13. Soulbow 8// Fighter 11
14. Soulbow 9// Fighter 12
15. Soulbow 10// Fighter 13
16. Swordsage 3// Fighter 14
17. Swordsage 4// Fighter 15
18. Swordsage 5// Fighter 16
19. Swordsage 6// Fighter 17
20. Swordsage 7// Fighter 18 (Shadow Stride)
Maybe put some of the Swordsage levels earlier for more stances, which will allow you to take the Martial Stance feat earlier as well. The good jumping off points of Soulbow are at 2, 4, 6, and 7. Given a liberal reading of multiclass initiator level regarding prestige classes, you may be able to count Soulbow toward your initiator level at 1:1 instead of 2:1, in which case you'll be able to get better maneuvers/stances considerably sooner.

1. LA +1// Fighter 1
2. Monstrous Humanoid 1// Soulknife 1
3. Monstrous Humanoid 2// Soulknife 2
4. Swordsage 1// Fighter 2 (Child of Shadow)
5. Swordsage 2// Fighter 3 (Shadow Jaunt)
6. Soulbow 1// Fighter 4
7. Soulbow 2// Fighter 5
8. Soulbow 3// Fighter 6 (Martial Stance: Dance of the Spider)
9. Soulbow 4// Fighter 7
10. Soulbow 5// Fighter 8
11. Soulbow 6// Fighter 9
12. Soulbow 7// Fighter 10
13. Soulbow 8// Fighter 11
14. Soulbow 9// Fighter 12
15. Soulbow 10// Fighter 13
16. Swordsage 3// Fighter 14
17. Swordsage 4// Fighter 15
18. Swordsage 5// Fighter 16
19. Swordsage 6// Fighter 17
20. Swordsage 7// Fighter 18 (Shadow Stride)
Same as above regarding the Swordsage levels and your maneuvers/stances. Use them mostly for utility, especially consider the Diamond Mind Concentration save counters.


Replace Wild Talent from Soulknife with Hidden Talent (XPH p67) for Chameleon, to use a Dorje (Wand) of Chameleon. If there's a Ranger or Druid in the party they can get a Wand of Camouflage (CD, SpC) and the two will stack, although Chameleon is only personal-range.

Definitely get Zen Archery (CW) to use Wis for both attack and damage with your Mind Arrows. Multiweapon Fighting (MM) and the Improved/Greater versions will allow you to shoot a lot of Mind Arrows. You'll get Weapon Focus via Soulknife, so get Weapon Specialization and if possible Ranged Weapon Mastery (PH2), along with Greater Focus/Specialization. Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Rapid Shot should be obvious. Take Manyshot for Improved Rapid Shot (CW) and Greater Manyshot (XPH). Psionic feats like Speed of Thought would also be useful, as you shouldn't ever be expending your psionic focus. Woodland Archer from Races of the Wild is extremely good if you can get it allowed.

The greatest benefit of Soulbow is giving your Mind Arrows the Lucky (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/weapons.htm#lucky) property, which functions independently for each arrow fired. That means every arrow gets a 1/day reroll on a missed attack, so every arrow that initially misses will get a second chance to hit since every arrow is only ever fired once. At Soulbow 6 you can add Bane for whatever you're most often facing, and if you end up fighting a lot of something else you can switch it to that type.

[Howler Dagger]

-snip-

I have to ask, why did you give me a thri-keen soulbow when I asked for a mundane gnome?:smallconfused:

If i wanted a thri-keen fighter I would go with that totemist/fighter/rogue crossbow build that gives you 16 crossbows attacks per round:smalltongue:

Could the "ineveitable cleric dip" be negated by the Main Character's 9 levels of cleric? (For those wondering, he has a LA+1 being gestalted)

[Urpriest]

I have to ask, why did you give me a thri-keen soulbow when I asked for a mundane gnome?:smallconfused:

If i wanted a thri-keen fighter I would go with that totemist/fighter/rogue crossbow build that gives you 16 crossbows attacks per round:smalltongue:

Could the "ineveitable cleric dip" be negated by the Main Character's 9 levels of cleric? (For those wondering, he has a LA+1 being gestalted)

You never said the guy was a gnome.

The Cleric Dip is for Devotion Feats and Turning to power them, so no, your main character cannot help with that. That said, you can go without if you'd rather just use Greater Manyshot to deal damage.

Another option would be something Bard-based, but I feel like you'd balk at that being less mundane. I'm a little curious as to why you're making a damaging cohort rather than a support cohort, frankly. In what sense is this guy not the main character?

Edit: Oh come to think of it, you say your main is a Cleric//Bard? So that guy has Dragonfire Inspiration maybe? Because that creates a rather different optimization situation.

[Quietus]

I have to ask, why did you give me a thri-keen soulbow when I asked for a mundane gnome?:smallconfused:

If i wanted a thri-keen fighter I would go with that totemist/fighter/rogue crossbow build that gives you 16 crossbows attacks per round:smalltongue:

Could the "ineveitable cleric dip" be negated by the Main Character's 9 levels of cleric? (For those wondering, he has a LA+1 being gestalted)

The inevitable cleric dip they're talking about is using Cloistered Cleric to get Travel devotion plus Knowledge devotion, to pair against Scout for constant Skirmish. Ignoring the fact that there's some possible rule quibbles on making those devotion-trades (most notably, you can only trade domains for devotions that your deity offers, and the Knowledge devotion/domain is coming from Cloistered Cleric, not your deity). If you can find an easy way to move every turn while firing (improved manyshot would do this, and there's at least a couple of ways to get 10' steps), then you can skip Cloistered Cleric entirely. Those alternative routes tend to be a little more expensive, though.

[Seerow]

You never said the guy was a gnome.

The Cleric Dip is for Devotion Feats and Turning to power them, so no, your main character cannot help with that. That said, you can go without if you'd rather just use Greater Manyshot to deal damage.

Another option would be something Bard-based, but I feel like you'd balk at that being less mundane. I'm a little curious as to why you're making a damaging cohort rather than a support cohort, frankly. In what sense is this guy not the main character?

I'm actually leaning towards seconding this. Your characters of course, but it makes more sense to me that the guy with all of the support stuff is the cohort, while the guy actually doing stuff is the main character.

Also that Archery without at least a dip into cleric is for the devotions discussed above is really painful. It can be done, but you're giving up a big portion of the optimization potential.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I have to ask, why did you give me a thri-keen soulbow when I asked for a mundane gnome?:smallconfused:

The word "gnome" does not appear in this thread until the above quote.


There's the Warblade Archer of Doom (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19858318/Warblade_Archer_of_Doom!?post_id=338067954), though you'll need to use at least one feat from Drow of the Underdark for the dual-wielding Aptitude Great Crossbows trick to work.

I'd say go a mix of Warblade and Fighter on one side, and a mix of Swordsage and either Scout or Rogue on the other depending on whether you want sneak attack or skirmish. An alternative would be Swordsage 2/ Warblade//Psychic Warrior, who would benefit from bonus feats, virtual Fighter levels for qualifying for Specialization and higher, buffs like Offensive Precognition/Prescience, utility powers/maneuvers, and overall survivability, plus Wis-SAD with Zen Archery.

[Godskook]

If you're doing Cleric 1 anyway, why do Manyshot instead of Travel Devotion?

1.I did both, just forgot to mention Travel Devotion(oops!)

2.Because standard actions are easier to get than full-round actions, meaning that you can get more potential damage from G.Many Shot.

[Urpriest]

1.I did both, just forgot to mention Travel Devotion(oops!)

2.Because standard actions are easier to get than full-round actions, meaning that you can get more potential damage from G.Many Shot.

See, I can think of surprise rounds and...maybe Slow? Perhaps a few other status effects? Any round in which you have to move somewhere you can use Travel Devotion, and you have no other uses for move actions, or ways to get extra standard actions. It just seems odd to expend two feats for such a narrow set of circumstances.

[ericgrau]

Greater weapon focus, lesser bracers of archery, point blank shot, rapid shot, precise shot (and improved if you have feat room), improved rapid shot, ranged weapon mastery. I think there's a feat in the complete series for firing into melee too. Now your attack bonus is so ridiculous almost all your attacks are hits. Coordinate with the party caster for buffs. Get boots of speed if allowed but it's over 1/3 of your WBL. Otherwise save for them, they're superb. Carry arrows of every metal type and even some bane arrows of common monster types.

I'd put fighter on one side of the gestalt for feats, then something special on the other side. Perhaps rogue for sneak attack because +4d6 on 4 attacks is way more awesome when it actually hits for ~+56 damage (unlike non-gestalt rogues who miss). Then beg the caster for greater invisibility and/or UMD a wand of grease and/or win initiative and/or etc. Or soulbow for more attacks is fine, and now you have the attack bonus to overcome the penalties. Or whatever, but believe me as an archer that turned out OP for a mild optimization group hitting is way better than missing no matter what strategy you combine with it.

I think the complete series also has ranged disarm and so on which is situationally handy if you have an extra feat lying around.

[Howler Dagger]

Sorry about the gnome thing :smallredface:


Anyway, I guess I could fluff the cohort being a cleric (the main character basicly gets his divine powers like a god (from the belief of his people) so she (the cohort) could get some power).

For the question "In what sense is this guy not the main character" is that the main is freeing his people from the oppressing elves, and while Bard'Cleric is very supportive he does do some combat himself.


Dragonfire inspiration, unfortunately, does not mesh well with the main character's background (he was a descended from Chaos, thus being a Chaos Gnome), so I guess that is out.

Going of Godsook's build I am thinking Scout 1/Ranger 4/+Scout 2/Swordsage 1// Fighter 5/Cleric 3?

What spells should I choose from my cleric levels to best aid me? Should I go with the Gnome domain or the Chaos domain (the two that my main has, and thus the cohort would have)? I'm thinking divine might would be good, but I have no clue beyond that.

[Godskook]

See, I can think of surprise rounds and...maybe Slow? Perhaps a few other status effects? Any round in which you have to move somewhere you can use Travel Devotion, and you have no other uses for move actions, or ways to get extra standard actions. It just seems odd to expend two feats for such a narrow set of circumstances.

There's also Belts of Battle and Factotum(which can still be reached), not to mention situations where you need to move longer than 1 move action's distance or need to both advance and retreat in the same round(quite possible with the restrictions Skirmish faces).

[Urpriest]

Sorry about the gnome thing :smallredface:


Anyway, I guess I could fluff the cohort being a cleric (the main character basicly gets his divine powers like a god (from the belief of his people) so she (the cohort) could get some power).

For the question "In what sense is this guy not the main character" is that the main is freeing his people from the oppressing elves, and while Bard'Cleric is very supportive he does do some combat himself.


Dragonfire inspiration, unfortunately, does not mesh well with the main character's background (he was a descended from Chaos, thus being a Chaos Gnome), so I guess that is out.

Going of Godsook's build I am thinking Scout 1/Ranger 4/+Scout 2/Swordsage 1// Fighter 5/Cleric 3?

What spells should I choose from my cleric levels to best aid me? Should I go with the Gnome domain or the Chaos domain (the two that my main has, and thus the cohort would have)? I'm thinking divine might would be good, but I have no clue beyond that.

Fighter 5 gives you essentially nothing, and while Cleric 3 gives you a bit more than Cleric 1 it's not really worthwhile if your main is a Cleric. I'd stick with Cleric 1, and for all that's holy use an even number of Fighter levels. Maybe stick the Swordsage level on the other side.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

My goal is to create a level 8 gestalt archer using teh elite array. I have heard archery is hard to optimize, but I really like the idea of an archer. I will be using the elite array (the character is actually a cleric/bard's cohort) for stats. The only sources I know are okay are Races of Stone and Core, but Let's assume the complete series is allowed and so is ToB. I would like minimum dipping. Would ranger or scout be the best way to go, or is there a better alternative?

Also want a more mundane class, so I don't want information on how to optimize a cleric for archery.

Mmmkay, let's break this down and take a look at it, then we can figure out what to do with it.

You are already paired with a Cleric//Bard. I will be assuming that this individual will be willing to buff you extensively. This person also handles the divine spellcasting and such. I'll also be assuming that he can Inspire Courage.

Now then, the problems with an Archer is that you don't get many attacks, and you don't get many ways of multiplying damage output per shot.

So, let's get to working on that.

First off, as with any Gestalt, you're wanting as close to a full BAB as you can get. This means, generally, paring a non-full BAB class with a full BAB class.

Second off, you're wanting to pair it with a class that can increase damage output. You've got some options here as well. Many will direct you to an arcane class, since they can significantly boost your power level. However, if all you really want to do is shoot things, then it's largely unnecessary.

With these in mind:

Scout//Ranger

Swift Hunter is powerful for a reason. It increases damage output AND it increases the reliability of said damage output. This is basically that without needing a feat, although you might still pick it up to sneak attack things normally immune to sneak attack.

Rogue/Scout // Ranger

This one is a bit more involved, and contains a bit more cheese. Basically, pick up Swift Ambusher from Complete Scoundrel. Scout and Rogue now stack for skirmish. So Scout4/Rogue4 (with intention to continue advancing Rogue) works out quite well. Swift Hunter lets you apply all precision-based damage, including sneak attack, to your attacks. Now all you need is making opponents flat-footed, and you're gold for high-damaging attacks, getting both skirmish and sneak attack per shot.

Now, if your Cleric//Bard friend will go for Dragonfire Inspiration, that's yet another source of damage for your arrows.

If you're just wanting a ranged damage output specialist, you could also go Hellfire Warlock, which has some sick damage potential, but I don't think it's quite what you are looking for.

[Manateee]

You don't need Dragonfire Inspiration for the Bard's inspire courage to be a hefty damage source. You might even get better returns without it.

It would be easier if you got Ranged Power attack somehow though - using an actual bow, the cheesy energy bow and Peerless Archer are all I can think of. Maybe back-porting Deadly Aim from Pathfinder.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You don't need Dragonfire Inspiration for the Bard's inspire courage to be a hefty damage source. You might even get better returns without it.D6's are always going to out-damage +1's, because they have a minimum of +1 damage per shot. Besides, the way you do this is by twisting them.

It would be easier if you got Ranged Power attack somehow though - using an actual bow, the cheesy energy bow and Peerless Archer are all I can think of. Maybe back-porting Deadly Aim from Pathfinder.

That's a thrower, he wants an archer, or I'd have suggested Warblade and Bloodstorm Blade.

[Manateee]

D6's are always going to out-damage +1's, because they have a minimum of +1 damage per shot. Besides, the way you do this is by twisting them.
+1s don't have to deal with energy resistance and don't have issues with AC-focused builds.

That's a thrower, he wants an archer, or I'd have suggested Warblade and Bloodstorm Blade.
I mentioned the Energy Bow, Peerless Archer and a possible back-port because it's not a thrower. That's the point.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

+1s don't have to deal with energy resistance and don't have issues with AC-focused builds.Perhaps you missed the 'use both' part? Or the fact that you can switch out the energy damage to Sonic, which, so far as I know, has no known resistances...

I would also give a great deal to know why +1's don't have to worry about AC-focused builds, and d6's does

[Eldariel]

Factotum//Archivist is pretty good. Warblade//Archivist is fairly good too.

[Godskook]

I would also give a great deal to know why +1's don't have to worry about AC-focused builds, and d6's does

Cause its +1 to damage and to-hit.

[Manateee]

Perhaps you missed the 'use both' part?I don't know what you're talking about. I told the OP that DFI being out of a build doesn't rule out archery.


I would also give a great deal to know why +1's don't have to worry about AC-focused builds, and d6's doesThe morale bonus provides a massive attack benefit, the elemental bonus doesn't.

I wasn't talking about anything you posted.
I don't care if you want to pick a fight.
Get over yourself.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The morale bonus provides a massive attack benefit, the elemental bonus doesn't.Inspire Courage is not a 'massive attack benefit' (unless you're getting to extreme optimization), attack always scales far faster than AC, since there are so many more ways of doing it... the Cleric/Bard has access to several stacking methods of adding attack bonuses, IC only being one of them.

Let's face it, AC just flat out doesn't work very well, since it's so easy to either bypass, completely negate, or just ignore as being unworthy of needing to be bypassed or negated. Even iterative attacks will almost always hit because of this. Getting a +5, or even a +16 on your attack rating is of little use when you're already only missing on a natural 1.

[Iferus]

One one side, be a mage. That's how you optimize any gestalt, right? So be a wizard entering the Master Specialist PrC at lv 4. Make sure you don't ban the Abjuration school.

On the other side, be a ranger/fighter (any combination, as long as you take an even number of fighter levels and have your first level be a ranger level for skill points) that takes his seventh and eigth level as an Arcane Archer.

Take two more levels of wizard at seventh and eigth level for the bonus feat and to satisfy the 1 PrC rule, and keep progressing with nice wizard PrC's.



Get a bow with the seeking enchantment, and start firing antimagic field arrows at casters.