Cost for adding spells to spellbook by spell level (3.5)

[DrakeRaids]

While this mostly just simple math, I noticed that a handy little chart like this hadn't made its way anywhere online. Not in wizards handbooks, not on any official sites, and I thought that maybe it might be useful to have it for cross referencing in a pinch. So anyway, here it is.


First Level: 125

Second Level: 350

Third Level: 675

Fourth Level: 1100

Fifth Level: 1625

Sixth Level: 2250

Seventh Level: 2975

Eighth Level: 3800

Ninth Level: 4725

[dextercorvia]

Your list assumes that you have to buy a scroll, and that isn't the case. Any spell higher than 1st level is cheaper to pay someone to copy. That is only 50gp per spell level.

Edit: plus the usual pigment fee of course.

[HunterOfJello]

The reason it isn't online anywhere is because there are copyright issues with a large number of the charts from the PHB since they weren't put into the SRD.

[Curmudgeon]

Your list assumes that you have to buy a scroll, and that isn't the case. Any spell higher than 1st level is cheaper to pay someone to copy. That is only 50gp per spell level.
That's not a guaranteed price by any means.
In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to the spell’s level × 50 gp. As a DM, I make most NPC Wizards quite leery of letting anyone else get their hands on their spellbook, and they usually charge 500 gp per spell level, meaning it's a second-place option after scrolls ─ at all levels. After all, scrolls are designed to be commodities. The spellbook copying price is entirely at your individual DM's discretion, and if they think the usual D&D authors' grasp of economics is weak (as I do), there's an opportunity in the rules here to do something about that.

[DegenPaladin]

I'm pretty much in agreement with Curmudgeon. As an on again off again, there's not to much that annoys me more then a player arguing with something I say pointing at the book where it clearly says generally or usually. As if that price was carved in stone by Gygax himself.

In a world where spellcasters know that they command the elemental powers of the universe. Where the only people that pose a credible threat to them is others like them, whats the justification for letting anyone who comes along copy out of their book?

In my eyes there needs to be a roleplaying reason for a random caster to cooperate on that level as opposed to the converse.

[sreservoir]

by that logic, no caster should ever sell scrolls at market price, because a scroll could be copied from or used; if the caster particularly fears their spells being copied, they would charge at least the same cost as for copying the spell for the scroll.

[pffh]

by that logic, no caster should ever sell scrolls at market price, because a scroll could be copied from or used; if the caster particularly fears their spells being copied, they would charge at least the same cost as for copying the spell for the scroll.

It's not that they fear the spell being copied. They are afraid of giving someone complete access to their spellbook for several hours if not days.

[IncoherentEssay]

Why would they need to do that though? Much simpler to make a 'copybook' for 50gp* x spell level + 15 gp for the book, assuming we want to be all RAW about it and pay for the full book. Then they can just keep renting out these 'copybooks' to others for a nice profit (for a non-adventuring wizard anyways).

*half the normal scribe-price to copy spells you already know.

[Terracotta]

One of the first games I ever played involved a LN-LE mageocracy who was down on "thaumaturgical proliferation." If you weren't a member of the government and were found to have forbidden spells, you could suffer a heavy fine, be imprisoned or put to deal, or have your spellbook destroyed.

You had to have licenses, by level, for any combat spell and still couldn't cast anything over 3rd level without being a government employee.

Point being that this sort of thing is entirely up to the DM's discretion. You can add a lot of flavor by adding restrictions like this. Our wizard paid something like 15000GP on the black market to get disintegration.

[grautry]

In a world where spellcasters know that they command the elemental powers of the universe. Where the only people that pose a credible threat to them is others like them, whats the justification for letting anyone who comes along copy out of their book?

Because they get more spells out of the deal?

PHP(p179) also says that wizards friendly to one another will often trade access to equal level spells from each other's handbook.

Sure, if someone is happy with their 2 spells per level, they can jealously hoard their spell knowledge. Smart wizards will exchange spells with their peers and enjoy their dozens or hundreds of spells.

So, be smart, make friends, join a mages' guild, enjoy your free or nearly free spell access.

[dextercorvia]

That's not a guaranteed price by any means. As a DM, I make most NPC Wizards quite leery of letting anyone else get their hands on their spellbook, and they usually charge 500 gp per spell level, meaning it's a second-place option after scrolls ─ at all levels. After all, scrolls are designed to be commodities. The spellbook copying price is entirely at your individual DM's discretion, and if they think the usual D&D authors' grasp of economics is weak (as I do), there's an opportunity in the rules here to do something about that.

Which is fine, so long as you realize that is a houserule. :smallwink:

To me, interpreting a guideline (especially one in the Player's book) of usually 50gp/level as usually 500gp/level is outside the realm of usually.

I think that its fine to have Wizards who refuse, and those who charge exhorbitant amounts, but there should be a guild, library, or society that allows copying for something close to that. And on the other side, there ought to be the occasional Wizard who allows it for less or even free (trusted ally or mentor).

[grautry]

To me, interpreting a guideline (especially one in the Player's book) of usually 50gp/level as usually 500gp/level is outside the realm of usually.

Pretty much. Something is not quite right if spellbook access is more expensive than scrolls.

Besides, this can also spectacularly backfire.

If your wizards charge 500gp/level of a spell, don't be surprised if your player starts selling spell access and swimming in gold soon after.

To put it in simple terms - if your intent is to make learning new spells unbelievably hard, it's easier(and far more fair) to inform a player to play a Sorcerer(or a divine caster). Learning new spells is the whole point of being a wizard.

[Curmudgeon]

If your wizards charge 500gp/level of a spell, don't be surprised if your player starts selling spell access and swimming in gold soon after.
What makes you think random NPCs will want to buy those particular spells?

The whole point is to avoid spells = instacash. They should be both expensive for PCs to buy and cheap for them to sell. That gives spellcasting PCs an incentive to go adventuring and find long-lost spellbooks, rather than hanging around the magic mall for easy profit.

[grautry]

What makes you think random NPCs will want to buy those particular spells?

Uh, setting consistency? NPCs shouldn't arbitrarily behave completely differently towards the PCs than they do towards themselves. Either there's demand for spellbook access for those kinds of prices or there isn't. If there is, why shouldn't the PCs participate? Do they have a magical "can't sell" curse? Do they have an invisible aura that causes for NPCs to become ten times as greedy?


The whole point is to avoid spells = instacash. They should be both expensive for PCs to buy and cheap for them to sell. That gives spellcasting PCs an incentive to go adventuring and find long-lost spellbooks, rather than hanging around the magic mall for easy profit.

No, that gives Wizards reason to go out and adventure. Most other classes don't care, because they already have access to their full list.

There's no reason to arbitrarily single out Wizards and charge them exorbitant prices for access to basic class features. Wizards don't have that much of a power advantage over Clerics or Druids.

Take a look at the Tome of Ancient Lore in Complete Divine. It requires a feat to use and is worth 22k gp. It's a spellbook containing every single conceivable spell. Aside from the clearly stated rules in PHP, I can't think of any clearer or more obvious demonstration of how much spellbook access should be worth.

Besides, MIC clearly states that if players want to buy something, they should be able to buy it without much fuss.

[Hirax]

If spells cost 500GP/level to scribe, how do you factor purchased spells into WBL?

[Curmudgeon]

Uh, setting consistency? NPCs shouldn't arbitrarily behave completely differently towards the PCs than they do towards themselves. Either there's demand for spellbook access for those kinds of prices or there isn't.
All the characters follow the same rules except D&D is based on the assumption that NPC wealth by level is only about 30% of PC WbL. So the PCs are the ones who can afford those prices, and NPCs can't. The PCs create most of the demand simply because they can supply the cash.

[Navigator]

What a player pays for copying spells into their book isn't of particular importance, but rather how it impacts the character's wealth.

Take two spell books for example; one copied exclusively from scrolls, and the other exclusively from mooching off other spellcasters. Do these books have the same value? Obviously, the one copied from scrolls will have higher cost to produce, where the mooched one will only cost the player pages and ink. However, it doesn't make sense for one to count against a larger portion of the character's wealth than the other because they are effectively the same exact thing.

As an analogy, if one of your character were bartering for a +3 longsword, and got the weapon for 15,000g, how much does that count against a player's wealth? 18,300g or 15,000g?

I believe it would be 18,300g, so I personally use a table for the cost of each spell to copy. I find this to be a more consistent method than policing how many spells a character has in their book by making them too expensive.

Edit: wording.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Organize a spell-sharing club among local wizards. The group picks a given spell level to share around, everyone picks a different spell and scribes their chosen spell onto only as many pages as are needed. Each set of pages gets rotated through the group over several days, so everyone in the group gets a chance to learn each spell. A few individuals in the club can organize smaller groups for sharing higher level spells, etc. Everyone gets their spells for only the cost of scribing the spell you share with the group, plus scribing the new spells you learn.

Learn Secret Page. Scribe the same 1st level spell onto every page of your spellbook. Whenever you learn a new spell, cats Secret Page to turn the text of one of those 1st level spell copies into that of the spell you just learned. It now occupies only a single page, regardless of its level.

Find a library or organization which charges visitors for copying spells. Study the spell you want, but in-character pretend you weren't able to understand it (i.e. failed the Spellcraft check). In-character, you get mad that they gave you such a poor quality copy to study and you wasted an entire day because of it, and refuse to pay their fee for that one. After you leave, cast Secret Page to put that spell into your book while it's still fresh in your memory. Keep going back and doing that for more new spells, they'll probably think your character has a learning disability or that he's just studying spells beyond his own capability. A high Bluff skill and spells to boost it are a huge benefit here.

[grautry]

All the characters follow the same rules except D&D is based on the assumption that NPC wealth by level is only about 30% of PC WbL. So the PCs are the ones who can afford those prices, and NPCs can't. The PCs create most of the demand simply because they can supply the cash.

What does that have to do with anything? WBL is an OOC concept, NPCs don't have magical rods of WBL detection(and even if they did, wizards are plenty capable of disguising themselves or fooling divination).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

What does that have to do with anything? WBL is an OOC concept, NPCs don't have magical rods of WBL detection(and even if they did, wizards are plenty capable of disguising themselves or fooling divination).

Certain individuals of an unspecified profession may be able to smell that wealth, though....

[ericgrau]

{table] Spell Level | Free Spells* | NPC Spell Cost** | Scrolled Spell Cost
1 | 5+int mod @ level 1 | (150) | 125
2 | 4 | 300 | 350
3 | 4 | 450 | 675
4 | 4 | 600 | 1100
5 | 4 | 750 | 1625
6 | 4 | 900 | 2250
7 | 4 | 1050 | 2975
8 | 4 | 1200 | 3800
9 | 4 | 1350 | 4725
[/table]
* If the wizard is odd level, subtract 2 from his highest level free spells. These spells may be used for lower level free spells instead if desired.
** Based on suggested price of 50 gp per spell level. Your DM may increase or decrease this price.

Players can and frequently do gain spells by burning scrolls. It's not always fair to assume that players always got them by the cheapest method. But if a DM has large cities with a readily available library with standard entrance fees it might be ok to assume spells cost this much or something close to it.

[Curmudgeon]

What does that have to do with anything? WBL is an OOC concept, NPCs don't have magical rods of WBL detection(and even if they did, wizards are plenty capable of disguising themselves or fooling divination).
Biffoniacus_Furiou already covered the main point: some classes are better at finding what Wizards want to keep hidden than the Wizards are at trying to hide it. But NPCs don't need "magical rods of WBL detection"; a simple Detect Magic showing everyone in the PC group lighting up like Las Vegas signs is enough to jack up all the prices immediately. It's just market dynamics: you charge what you can get away with.

[sreservoir]

Biffoniacus_Furiou already covered the main point: some classes are better at finding what Wizards want to keep hidden than the Wizards are at trying to hide it. But NPCs don't need "magical rods of WBL detection"; a simple Detect Magic showing everyone in the PC group lighting up like Las Vegas signs is enough to jack up all the prices immediately. It's just market dynamics: you charge what you can get away with.

so, in your games, magic auraing away your excess will let you haggle down to significantly lower costs for spells?

[Amphetryon]

so, in your games, magic auraing away your excess will let you haggle down to significantly lower costs for spells?

Nystul's Magic Aura has hilarious implications in such a setting.

[Slipperychicken]

I would imagine copying spells from a library or guild, which charges you look at the spell, regardless of success, which politely puts Antimagic Shackles on customers, and makes its "copy-books" out of something hard to break and/or have one spell per book to reduce risks.

[sreservoir]

I would imagine copying spells from a library or guild, which charges you look at the spell, regardless of success, which politely puts Antimagic Shackles on customers, and makes its "copy-books" out of something hard to break and/or have one spell per book to reduce risks.

it's somewhat difficult to check how much of your items are magical in an AMF.

[Curmudgeon]

it's somewhat difficult to check how much of your items are magical in an AMF.
It is difficult, but it's not impossible. The Appraise Magical Value feat lets you use Appraise to determine magical properties without actually needing any magic. It's just slow.

[TentacleSurpris]

{table] Spell Level | Free Spells* | NPC Spell Cost** | Scrolled Spell Cost
1 | 5+int mod @ level 1 | (150) | 125
2 | 4 | 300 | 350
3 | 4 | 450 | 675
4 | 4 | 600 | 1100
5 | 4 | 750 | 1625
6 | 4 | 900 | 2250
7 | 4 | 1050 | 2975
8 | 4 | 1200 | 3800
9 | 4 | 1350 | 4725
[/table]
* If the wizard is odd level, subtract 2 from his highest level free spells. These spells may be used for lower level free spells instead if desired.
** Based on suggested price of 50 gp per spell level. Your DM may increase or decrease this price.

Players can and frequently do gain spells by burning scrolls. It's not always fair to assume that players always got them by the cheapest method. But if a DM has large cities with a readily available library with standard entrance fees it might be ok to assume spells cost this much or something close to it.

An archivist can get spells another way, by finding a divine caster (Ranger, Paladin, Druid, or Cleric with a certain domain) and cooperating with them to craft a scroll of the spell he needs. The Archivist provides the feat and XP and costs, and the caster provides the spell. Afterwards, the Archivist then pays for the inks to copy the spell in his prayer book. The cost is as follows, with gold and XP:

1 | 112.5 | 1
2 | 275 | 6
3 | 487.5| 15
4 | 750 | | 28
5 | 1062.5 | 45
6 | 1425 | | 66
7 | 1837.5 | 91
8 | 2300 | | 120
9 | 2812.5 | 153

*oops I can't make a chart.

This method can also be used by a Wizard who wants to learn a spell from a Sorcerer, Bard, or other spontaneous caster, or to cooperate with a 12 Warlock that doesn't have Scribe Scroll.

The downside is that you'll have to pay the material cost of the spell once to make the scroll, and when scribed, that cost will be wasted.

[mattie_p]

An archivist can get spells another way, by finding a divine caster (Ranger, Paladin, Druid, or Cleric with a certain domain) and cooperating with them to craft a scroll of the spell he needs. The Archivist provides the feat and XP and costs, and the caster provides the spell.

This method can also be used by a Wizard who wants to learn a spell from a Sorcerer, Bard, or other spontaneous caster, or to cooperate with a 12 Warlock that doesn't have Scribe Scroll.

This gets suggested a lot, but doesn't work. Scribe Scroll (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#scribeScroll) has a special restriction that prohibits this:


Benefit
You can create a scroll of any spell that you know. What you need is an artificer to UMD that he knows the spell to make the scroll, then you can bootstrap yourself.

[Story]

Except that Artificer scrolls are neither Arcane nor Divine, so you can't scribe off them.

[mattie_p]

Except that Artificer scrolls are neither Arcane nor Divine, so you can't scribe off them.

Eeep. :smallredface: Forgot about the errata for a minute there. Thanks. Just be an artificer then, and get all the spells anyway.

[TentacleSurpris]

This gets suggested a lot, but doesn't work. Scribe Scroll (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#scribeScroll) has a special restriction that prohibits this:

What you need is an artificer to UMD that he knows the spell to make the scroll, then you can bootstrap yourself.

I thought this too, but if you read all of the other crafting feats, they all use similar language (Brew Potion and Craft Wand says the exact same thing), and so I'd understand the more detailed crafting rules in the DMG and the caveat about cooperating to create items would apply to all crafting feats, including Scribe Scroll. The language in the PHB is obviously not the final word on item crafting.

Quote from DMG, 282

Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met in order for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (though access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).

Nothing in that chapter says that wands, scrolls, and potions cannot be made cooperatively.

[mattie_p]

Actually, while potions and wands are the same, many do not have that specific wording.


You can create any magic weapon, armor, or shield whose prerequisites you meet.

You can create any rod whose prerequisites you meet.

You can create any staff whose prerequisites you meet.

You can create any wondrous item whose prerequisites you meet.

A creature with this feat can create any construct whose prerequisites it meets.