ToB: Swap or Add

[Mari01]

I'm a bit torn. Using a ToB class ( in particular a Crusader), am I bettter off trading up manuevers or having more maunevers known. For example, I'm trading up Charging Minotaur into Mountain Hammer and something else for White Raven Tactics. Unless I'm going for something that has a number of manuevers as a prereq, is it strictly better to upgrade?

[Manateee]

I don't understand.
Where do you have to make a choice between swapping and adding?
It's basically always a good idea to trade some powers up - even if it's jut upgrading your mountain hammer.

Swapping doesn't reduce your maneuvers known (it just rearranges them), so I don't really know how to answer your question.

[Godskook]

I'm with Manateee on the confusion part, since swapping maneuvers doesn't change the number of maneuvers known.

[Mari01]

Ah. I may be reading that wrong. It say's that you can trade out a maneuver known for up to your highest level that you can take. I interpreted that as "I can lose this level 1 and gain this level 3." Does this mean that if I trade something up I can also pick up another in order to meet the cap?

[Shpadoinkle]

Ah. I may be reading that wrong. It say's that you can trade out a maneuver known for up to your highest level that you can take. I interpreted that as "I can lose this level 1 and gain this level 3."

... Right. Where are you getting the "swap or add" thing from?

[Mari01]

... Right. Where are you getting the "swap or add" thing from?

"Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered crusader level after that (6th, 8th, 10th, and so on), you can choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one you already know. In effect, you lose the old maneuver in
exchange for the new one."

Page 9.

[kamikasei]

Right - you can opt not to upgrade, but if you do, you still end up with the same number of maneuvers. There is no "...or having more maneuvers known".

[The Dark Fiddler]

"Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered crusader level after that (6th, 8th, 10th, and so on), you can choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one you already know. In effect, you lose the old maneuver in
exchange for the new one."

Page 9.

Swapping maneuvers is more or less completely unrelated to picking up the new ones you'd get from leveling up.

[Mari01]

Right - you can opt not to upgrade, but if you do, you still end up with the same number of maneuvers. There is no "...or having more maneuvers known".

I see I see. So then I do get both. I can swap one out AND learn one.

[kamikasei]

I see I see. So then I do get both. I can swap one out AND learn one.
At odd-numbered levels, you get a new maneuver known, increasing your total. At even-numbered levels, you get to upgrade one you already know, keeping your total known the same. At no point do you have to choose between these options. They don't occur at the same time.

(That's true for Crusaders and Warblades, at least. Swordsages learn a new maneuver every level, but that's still independent from the upgrade option.)

[Mari01]

At odd-numbered levels, you get a new maneuver known, increasing your total. At even-numbered levels, you get to upgrade one you already know, keeping your total known the same. At no point do you have to choose between these options. They don't occur at the same time.

(That's true for Crusaders and Warblades, at least. Swordsages learn a new maneuver every level, but that's still independent from the upgrade option.)

That's what I was missing. I didn't notice the different intervals. Thank you!