2nd Edition AD&D Fifth level spell help needed

[Jay R]

I am playing my first game of 2e AD&D. The DM only allows two spells when you first reach a given level. One player has just reached ninth level wizard, and can cast fifth level spells. I'm at 8th level and will be there soon.

If you could only have two fifth level spells, what would they be? What would your top four fifth level spells be?

Thanks for the help.

[Lord Torath]

Well, it depends on the roll you play in your party, but I'm partial to:

Wall of Stone
Wall of Force
Advanced Illusion

None of these are blasting spells, but the two wall spells are useful for a variety of purposes (50-ton block of ceiling dropping down on you? Need a bridge? Is an Avalanche thundering down towards you? Want to close off that tunnel to prevent the Big Nasty from catching you?)

And Advanced Illusion can be used for any number of purposes, including springing suspected ambushes, encouraging your enemies to expend spells and resources to no effect, hiding the party, etc.

Number 4 would probably be Lower Resistance. Excellent for facing dragons or Drow...

Now do you only get to add two spells at the time you level, and then get other spells from scrolls and additional leveling? Or are you stuck with just two spells at 5th level, ever?

[Jay R]

Now do you only get to add two spells at the time you level, and then get other spells from scrolls and additional leveling? Or are you stuck with just two spells at 5th level, ever?

Thanks for the advice.

We get two spells each time we level, and we can research spells in off-time at one month per level, with near-certain success for a spell in the books. Also we can learn from scrolls, and from each other.

From our adventures, we have 21-26 spells at each of 1st-3rd level, and eight 4th level spells. In fact, I get to choose two of those now, since I just reached eighth level. We currently have Dimension Door, Fatigue, Fumble, Improved Invisibility, Stoneskin, and Wall of Ice.

[kaomera]

So, I'm going strictly by 1e and I'm not sure how many of these made it into 2e or if they would still be 5th level, but my list would be:

1) Passwall
2) Magic Jar
3) Contact Other Plane
4) Stone Shape

Although the order could well change depending on the DM. I picked Passwall first as an all-around useful utility spell, Magic Jar is just fun (and very powerful if used well), Contact Other Plane is potentially a really wonderful spell, but it relies on a willing DM and the ability to avoid possible insanity... Stone Shape is possibly even better than Passwall, but some DMs can tend to see it as abusive (because it can be).

Alternates / Runners Up would be Feeblemind and Hold Monster, especially if you need combat spells. IIRC 2e got rid of Mnemomic Enhancer and allowed memorizing lower-level spells in your spell slots? If that's correct I think you may be better off using more level 3 and 4 spells for combat...

[Telok]

Cloudkill: A pure combat spell. Good when cast from higher ground or in dungeon hallways. Ineffective on anything immune to poison.

Telekinesis: Fun fun fun.

Conjure Elemental: The casting time and it's 5% chance (per round) of going rogue are definite downsides. The duration and utility of elementals in and out of combat make it worth considering.

Wall of Stone: Bloody useful.

[Thialfi]

I am playing my first game of 2e AD&D. The DM only allows two spells when you first reach a given level. One player has just reached ninth level wizard, and can cast fifth level spells. I'm at 8th level and will be there soon.

If you could only have two fifth level spells, what would they be? What would your top four fifth level spells be?

Thanks for the help.


Our campaign forces our wizards to concentrate heavily on the combat oriented spells since they are always an intelligent enemies first target. As such my favorite 5th level spell is hold monster. Depending on how high up in level you plan on playing I would give cone of cold serious thought as well considering it does not have a damage cap like fireball and lightning bolt.

Other than those I like cloudkill, advanced illusion, or one of the wall spells.

[Lapak]

My answer will depend on the style of campaign, because Wall of Force won't win combats for you but it is one of the most powerful 'No' buttons in 2nd edition. If you're in a story-arc-based campaign where you're going into fights you can't avoid, there are better choices. But if you're playing in a sandbox/exploration campaign where you're setting your own agenda and discretion may be the better part of valor, there aren't many more powerful spells in terms of being able to pull the group's fat out of the fire in a pinch so everybody can skedaddle.

[Caliphbubba]

Teleport is pretty useful outside of combat. (and in combat in a pinch) I've probably cast Teleport more than any other spell in the game I'm in. Try to get a Helm of Teleportation if you can swing it. It's awesome for combat teleports. memorize it once and be able to use it 5 times a day i think is how it reads.

I use Wall of Force pretty often too.

is Feeblemind 5th level or 6th level? That's a mage killer right there.

[hamlet]

What sources do you have access to? Some good recommendations from the PHB here, but there are some pretty wildly fun mid to high level spells in other sources. And some disgustingly overpowered ones in Forgotten Realms stuff.

[Jay R]

What sources do you have access to? Some good recommendations from the PHB here, but there are some pretty wildly fun mid to high level spells in other sources. And some disgustingly overpowered ones in Forgotten Realms stuff.

I have all four volumes of the Wizard's Spell Compendium, so pretty much all TSR spells are available.

[Zombimode]

The most powerfull 5th level spell by far is probably Magic Jar. Used correctly your character will become more or less imortal and will gain the ability to take on hordes of enemies alone and without the need of party members (that means your Magic Jar shenanigans wont protect your party members at all).

With the right mindset of your own, your fellow players and of the DM, this spell can be awesome and powerfull.

But its more likely to either piss of the DM and your fellow players, or proof the spell to be useless (because of DM fiat or because you didnt use it correctly - its not an easy spell).


Animate Dead is also a very powerfull and universaly usefull spell, but has similar problems as Magic Jar: the DM (and even the other player) may become quite anoyed by it.


Chaos is a really nice pick. It works like Confusion but allows only one save and that one is made with a -2 penalty. This spell can end encounters by itself. The area covered is also quite large (12m * 12m, thats about 35 ft. * 35 ft.?).

Cone of Cold is a nice blasting spell because it has no cap on damage. So if you think you will play for many levels, this may be a good choice.

Summon Shadows is a good summoning spell. I like it better than SM3. Shadows are pretty resilent because they are immune to non-magic weapons. But it will put headaches on your DM because he will have to figure out ability damage when creatures have no ability scores assinged.

[Jay R]

We travel with a Paladin; there's no point recommending Animate Dead or anything similar. While my character isn't Lawful (he's an elvish mage/thief), the entire party is Good.

[Zombimode]

We travel with a Paladin; there's no point recommending Animate Dead or anything similar. While my character isn't Lawful (he's an elvish mage/thief), the entire party is Good.

Animate Dead in 2e is no more or less "evil" then summoning monsters or casting a fireball. If there is an in-setting reason (like animating the dead prevents the souls from resting or something) then its a different matter. But "by the book" casting Animate Dead is fine for a paladin. Skelettons and Zombies are true neutral in 2e.

[ngilop]

I have no idea where some are getting that animate dead is not evil, as it is explictily stated
Casting this spell is an evil act

Dominate is another valid 5th level spell, and never scoff at what might be gained via a Contact other plane.

[VariaVespasa]

I'm sort of surprised nobody else has suggested this so far, but since they havent, allow me- Regardless of which two spells you chose, make sure theyre not either of the ones the other wizard took. Then trade your two spells to them for their two spells. Much faster than researching new spells (and cheaper too), and voila- instant 4 spells! Well, in 10 days or so anyway, if the (house?)rule of 1 day per spell level to learn new spells still holds in 2.0. Assuming the other guy didnt get wildly silly on their picks that should give you enough selection to handle a decent breadth of needs between the two of you.

You should probably do a little colluding with them on spell selections when the time approaches for 6th lvl spells too...

[Jay R]

I'm sort of surprised nobody else has suggested this so far, but since they havent, allow me- Regardless of which two spells you chose, make sure theyre not either of the ones the other wizard took. Then trade your two spells to them for their two spells...

Absolutely. The other wizard is played by my wife. We've been colluding on spells since she joined the game.

[rexreg]

one word: Teleport

[Straybow]

Magic Jar is necromancy and stopped by protection from evil, hence pretty resoundingly evil, so I don't think this is useable by good characters, especially with a Pally in party.

[Toofey]

Wall of force
Teleport
Improved Blink (spells and Magic)

and... Cone of Cold, because if you have 4, you should take at least one blaster

[Matthew]

To add to the chorus, teleport and wall of stone are probably the most useful of the default fifth level spells.