Problems with playstyle

[USS Sorceror]

Hello.

So I was wondering what some people do when they're dealing with someone whose playstyle does not match theirs. I'm speaking as a DM having problems with player playstyles, but I'm open to any advice from players having problems with other players or their DMs.

My specific problem is with a player whose characters end up being some sort of Chaotic Stupid/Stupid Evil hybrid. He plays this way because he's gotten away with it in every campaign he's ever played so far. He filled in for one of my players in a session and the crafty Chaotic Neutral wizard who is good at alchemy was suddenly transformed into a thug threatening to smash a vial of alchemist's fire into a villains face. A villain who was restrained. And being beaten up by the barbarian for interrogation. Which was working.

Any sort of advice would be helpful on this. Generally I know the rule is to talk about it out of game with the person, but what if the person is someone who is less approachable/likely to take comments about their playstyle personally? And this would apply to any RP game I think (which is why I put this here. Will move if necessary).

[Mastikator]

One of the rights of the DMs is to say "no". Tell him that you can't work with those kinds of characters, tell him he needs to make something fundamentally different.

You're the DM, you can do that. There is no way the only way he has fun is if he's playing stupid evil characters. Tell him to play a character of high moral standard, mercy and compassion (and NOT judgment!).
You can make it like a "challenge yourself" kind of thing if you're worried that he'll be butthurt over it.

[graymagiker]

I have found there is no substitute for talking about it out of game. If the player would take things personally out of game, I suspect it likely they will take it at least as personally if something happens in game.

There are several issues to consider:
1. Who is having fun with the player's characters? Presumably the player is, and from your post it sounds like you as the DM are not. What about the other players?

2. What level of unapproachable are we talking? Is the player likely to leave the game if he thinks you're picking on his characters? Do something else?

I sympathize that these things can be hard to handle. But you have to talk with the player. Sometimes it is best to talk with him with one other player, depending on personal relationships between all of you. I have found that talking with the player out of game alone to be beneficial. I have often had conversations about stuff like this, though your situation sounds more serious, with players via IM or e-mail. This gives them time to think, and doesn't have the feel of "come outside, I need to talk with you" at the beginning of game can have.

One thing to keep in mind is that it must be fun for this player as well. Before you talk with him, try and come up with options that will allow him to have fun but eliminate the behaviors that are causing others not to have fun. If he wants to play a character that is a jerk, try your best to find a way to let him! Note: jerk != stupid. Some of the best evil characters I have played, as a player, seemed alright up until the very end of a plot arch; by being suave about it the deception became part of the evil/jerkness.

[USS Sorceror]

snip

1. The player of course is having fun with his characters. However, in campaigns past when we were both players, I and a few other players had problems with certain aspects of his playstyle (His fighter/rogue cornered a girl in a backalley, and had she not been a wizard bad things would have happened. He also killed a man in plain view of an entire tavern and thus got us kicked out of town). Also, the person who regularly plays the wizard that I mentioned in the first post (once again, that was a character this player was filling in for) had problems with what he'd done as his character. To paraphrase him, "Being Chaotic Neutral doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want."

2. He just doesn't seem like the kind of person you'd want to make mad in the slightest. Then again that might just be because I have trouble delivering bad news to people.

Also, I would welcome a suave and smooth evil party member, but I'm not sure he would be willing/able to play it.

I'm just bringing it up because even though I'm not running a game with him now I think I will sometime in the future and I need to learn how to deal with it.

[Jornophelanthas]

2. He just doesn't seem like the kind of person you'd want to make mad in the slightest. Then again that might just be because I have trouble delivering bad news to people.
[...]
I'm just bringing it up because even though I'm not running a game with him now I think I will sometime in the future and I need to learn how to deal with it.
I am writing this under the assumption that the "Chaotic Stupid Evil" player is not a close personal friend of yours. If he/she is, then this post may not apply to your situation.

1. If you want to DM a new campaign and this player (or another player with the same playstyle) is expected to participate, what you need to do is to state very clearly beforehand that you place limitations on playstyle (e.g. No Evil Alignments, or No Party Infighting, or No Random Acts of Violence), and that you ask everyone who wants to join if they're OK with that. If not, then they shouldn't join, because they probably wouldn't enjoy the game anyway.
If someone does join who then breaks the playstyle rules you set out, point this out and ask him/her to correct his/her character's behaviour. Point out that NPCs will react accordingly to violent behaviour, and the player character can get in serious trouble. Point out that being thrown in jail means that the character is retired.

2. If the Wizard's regular player is upset about how this replacement player played his character in his absence, the regular player should simply withdraw permission for the replacement player to ever play the character again. (Personally, I'm opposed to players playing other people's characters anyway, because it hurts character development.) This way, it won't happen again.
If the replacement player wants to play a one-off session in an ongoing campaign, he should bring a character of his own. Also, see 1.

3. If you feel uncomfortable around this person, especially when DM-ing for them and having to deliver bad news, either find a way to get over this feeling, or don't game with this person. You can't DM effectively if you feel intimidated by one of the players.
If you have social anxiety issues, it's best to conquer them by directly confronting this player and getting it over with. Most people are reasonable enough, especially if you stress that it's not necessarily anyone's "fault", but rather a clash of playstyles.
If this person has anger management issues, and he/she actually makes you or someone else at the table uncomfortable just by being there, it's probably better for everyone to not game with him at all.
If you have social anxiety issues AND he/she has anger management issues, it will be one ugly scene. However, you can actively avoid that person from there on. If you are starting a new game after that, you are perfectly justified in not inviting him/her after he/she has blown up in your face.

Regardless, whatever is the case, you NEED TO address this issue with this player, or it will never end. In fact, if you actively avoid the subject, you run the risk of it becoming a passive-aggressive conflict, which could lead to mutual resentment.

[Urslingen]

...

2. He just doesn't seem like the kind of person you'd want to make mad in the slightest. Then again that might just be because I have trouble delivering bad news to people.

Also, I would welcome a suave and smooth evil party member, but I'm not sure he would be willing/able to play it.

I'm just bringing it up because even though I'm not running a game with him now I think I will sometime in the future and I need to learn how to deal with it.

He seems like a regular douche to me. "Someone you don't want to make mad" in my book translates to a bully with a wannabe-bossy attitude. :smallannoyed:

Guys like that needs to be taken down a notch. You can do this in a calm and friendly way, no problem - as long as you don't allow him to walk all over you just because he can go: :smallmad: . You can raise your temper to, and let him know it. :smallcool:

I think you should tell him out-of-game, face-to-face and straight-to-the-point. This is not some macho-move, it just shows that you are taking the situation (and him) seriously.


Then again that might just be because I have trouble delivering bad news to people.


You seem like a well-meaning guy, which is really good n' all :smallsmile: , but I think this calls for a little balls-to-the-wall-attitude. He won't listen to ya' if he thinks he can walk all over you - prove him wrong, and then he'll listen.

And if he doesn't?... **** him, he can find another group to play with, you don't need to handle this crap. :smallwink:

Peace Out.

- Urslingen

[Tyndmyr]

Hello.

So I was wondering what some people do when they're dealing with someone whose playstyle does not match theirs. I'm speaking as a DM having problems with player playstyles, but I'm open to any advice from players having problems with other players or their DMs.

My specific problem is with a player whose characters end up being some sort of Chaotic Stupid/Stupid Evil hybrid. He plays this way because he's gotten away with it in every campaign he's ever played so far. He filled in for one of my players in a session and the crafty Chaotic Neutral wizard who is good at alchemy was suddenly transformed into a thug threatening to smash a vial of alchemist's fire into a villains face. A villain who was restrained. And being beaten up by the barbarian for interrogation. Which was working.

Any sort of advice would be helpful on this. Generally I know the rule is to talk about it out of game with the person, but what if the person is someone who is less approachable/likely to take comments about their playstyle personally? And this would apply to any RP game I think (which is why I put this here. Will move if necessary).

Have people react exactly as they would in real life to him.

Works amazingly well.

[Jay R]

I don't play chess with somebody who is playing checkers.

I don't play baseball with somebody who is playing football.

I don't have a footrace with somebody on a bicycle.

Everybody in the game has to be playing the same game.

How much difference in styles is reasonable is a judgment call, but if his style reduces other people's fun, and he won't change it, then you can't play with him.

Try to talk to him, and explain why it's reducing other people's fun. If that doesn't work, don't invite him back.

In short, fix it if you can. But if you can't, don't let him hurt the game.

[mcv]

I he made a mess of filling in for another player before, why do you let him do it again? Why invite him at all?

If he's filling in, he's not a regular player. If he's not a regular player, there's no need to invite him. And there's certainly no need to let him mess up other PCs.

[USS Sorceror]

I he made a mess of filling in for another player before, why do you let him do it again? Why invite him at all?

If he's filling in, he's not a regular player. If he's not a regular player, there's no need to invite him. And there's certainly no need to let him mess up other PCs.

Well firstly, if you mean the fighter/rogue I was talking about, that was a character he made for himself. He has never filled in for anyone else until now, and like you're saying I'm not letting him fill in again. But there's a possibility he could be a regular player in future campaigns.

@Jornophelanthas: The player is a close friend of mine. He may have some anger issues and I do have trouble being assertive in social situations. But I will take your comment into consideration.

@Urslingen: He isn't a total douche in real life. And a balls to the walls attitude, as you so boldly suggest, won't cut it with him. He takes the headstrong, personal-freedom part of the Chaotic alignment very seriously. Even telling him in a non-confrontational manner (from my point of view) might seem confrontational to him because it is someone telling him what to do. This makes him difficult to deal with sometimes but he can generally be a pretty okay guy in real life.

My biggest problem is that our gaming group is also a close-knit group of friends outside of gaming. In particular one of the players in my current campaign is the problem player's girlfriend. She is new-ish to roleplaying and so may not be able to separate my dislike of her boyfriend's playstyle with dislike for her boyfriend. I don't want to lose someone who I think could be a good roleplayer, and I certainly don't want to cause any conflict amongst our group of friends. So my real question is how can I resolve a conflict occurring in game and out of game with people who may have difficulty distinguishing between the two?

[bloodtide]

Any sort of advice would be helpful on this. Generally I know the rule is to talk about it out of game with the person, but what if the person is someone who is less approachable/likely to take comments about their playstyle personally? And this would apply to any RP game I think (which is why I put this here. Will move if necessary).


In general, I'm not a fan of the 'just talk to the person'. That would be great if we all lived in a perfect world where everyone was a reasonable person. But we don't live in that world...

So what I do is just stay on top of things. If a player does an anti-playstlye then what happens is all up to me as the DM. That way I can control the game.

If the player is just annoying, like being chaotic stupid and killing random people, I will just remove the people from the area, or make them immortal or such. That way, the death does not matter. Example: The city had plenty of clones in stock, so when the character Bort, then Bort II, simply took over.

I don't use a 'nitty gritty low magic setting', I use a high magic and fantasy setting. So when the group goes into a shop, they see a golem guard. When they try something, folks have plenty of simple magic items to get them out of trouble. The 'average' folks are not 1st level human commoners, they are 5th level half dragon grell commoners.