Are these swordsage dips worth it?

[Drathmar]

So I was wondering whether all, any, or none of the following dips would be worth it for a swordsage that is focused on TWF using shadowblade and eventually gloomrazor, using a rogue type fighting style, in a party with 3 other melee types and 1 caster:

Rogue 1 for extra sneak attack damage (pretty sure we are going to be fighting a lot of things that are vulnerable to precision damage, plus flanking/flat-footed shouldn't be a problem)

Rogue 3 for evasion and another sneak attack dice

Skirmisher 1 for skirmish damage (using sudden leap to move 10ft and get full attack... also is there a way to increase skirmish damage without taking more levels of scout, through feats or such, since you don't get more skirmish damage till lvl 5).

Fighter 1 for an extra feat

Fighter 2 for another extra feat

Any others you would suggest for a character using this style? Just seems like going straight 20 isn't worth it the more I think about it because while dual boost is good, it doesn't seem all that great.

Also, this brings up another question... when you take multiple levels of other classes... do they stack then you take half to figure your initiator level or is each class considered separately?

For example is a SS 3/ Ftg 1/ Rog 1/ SS 2:

7th level initiator (5 from SS, 1 from Fgt and 1 from Rog)

6th level initiator (5 from SS, 1 from Fgt + Rog / 2)

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Zaranthan]

Rogue 1 for extra sneak attack damage (pretty sure we are going to be fighting a lot of things that are vulnerable to precision damage, plus flanking/flat-footed shouldn't be a problem)

Rogue 3 for evasion and another sneak attack dice
Sneak attack is nothing to write home about, but it can be fun. Two levels for Evasion is definitely worth it, but I wouldn't go farther unless you're starved on skill points for some reason.


Skirmisher 1 for skirmish damage (using sudden leap to move 10ft and get full attack... also is there a way to increase skirmish damage without taking more levels of scout, through feats or such, since you don't get more skirmish damage till lvl 5).
I assume you meant "Scout 1 for skirmish damage." Once again, nothing to write home about. If you're married to the extra d6s, the slippers of battledancing (DMG2) have a skirmish-like ability that explicitly stacks.


Fighter 1 for an extra feat

Fighter 2 for another extra feat
There ARE some nice feats out there, but make sure you're getting your money's worth. Don't do this for Weapon Focus, and don't go for more than two levels.


7th level initiator (5 from SS, 1 from Fgt and 1 from Rog)

6th level initiator (5 from SS, 1 from Fgt + Rog / 2)
The second example is correct. For each level in a class other than the martial adept you're measuring, you get +1/2 initiator level. If your example was SS5/Fgt2/Rog1, you'd still have IL 6 (5 from SS, 3/2=1 from other classes).

[Urpriest]

Improved Skirmish increases Skirmish damage if you move 20ft. It's in Complete Scoundrel IIRC.

[Metahuman1]

I tend to advise this a lot to Melee builds, particularly unarmed and TWF.

Dip one level of Barbarian for Pounce, and one of Cleric for Travel devotion and Turn undead attempts to fuel it. Cause the extra Mobility is really that good.

Other then that, either Monk 2 or Fighter 2. Monk Get's you a couple of Bonus feats that aren't half bad in the right build or situation, and Evasion, and the ability to defend yourself if you lose your gear or don't feel like dealing lethal damage. And the feats are re-trainable.

Fighter net's you a bigger hit die, couple of extra BAB points, a fort save boost and the ability to just grab the bonus feats you want. I like Blind Fight and Mage Slayer myself, get that feat chain started.

[Suddo]

2 Rogue doesn't just net evasion. Using the Fighter thief rogue it also nets 2 feats.
The barbarian dip for Pounce is nice (though I tend to ban it sense its kind of rediculous for 1 level)
The cleric Dip is nice also. Though its that kind of min/max that causes rollplayer vs roleplayer arguments.
Psychic Warrior 2 nets you some feats and psionic stuff too.

[gkathellar]

If you had the feats to spare, Master of Nine would be good ... but I guess you don't, considering TWF. Bloodclaw Master is pretty decent.

[Metahuman1]

2 Rogue doesn't just net evasion. Using the Fighter thief rogue it also nets 2 feats.
The barbarian dip for Pounce is nice (though I tend to ban it sense its kind of rediculous for 1 level)
The cleric Dip is nice also. Though its that kind of min/max that causes rollplayer vs roleplayer arguments.
Psychic Warrior 2 nets you some feats and psionic stuff too.

So don't actually use anything except a bonus feat(s) form your domain slots, either as Domain power granted bonus feats or Devotion feats.

And all it's doing is making the lightly armored character who uses a style of combat that's based on rapidly taking lot's of attacks in quick succession on an opponent able to do just that. It's not that bad, particularly if you just ignore your cleric casting.

[Manateee]

Rogue 3 for Penetrating strike and Craven access is a pretty good deal, if you're going to be making a lot of attacks with your SS. And that would leave an extra level to do something with (Ferocity barbarian or something).

I'm not sure about the Fighter dips though, unless you have some very specific plans for your build that just need those spare feats. And the scout level for a conditional 1d6 is pretty sketchy too, IMO.

[Greenish]

Fighter is pretty nice for getting your preferred style online early on, what with needing Weapon Finesse, TWF and Shadow Blade along with more generic stuff. Hit and Run Tactics ACF (DotU) will make it yet more tasty, maybe combined for Exoticist (Dragon #310) for a bunch of exotic weapons. Kusari-gama shouldn't be too hard a sell as a Shadow Hand weapon. :smallwink:

Scout is pretty meh dip, and one level of rogue isn't that amazing either.

Cleric or barbarian are good options for mobility.