Optimization and discussion on my chosen character

[HunterColt22]

Hi all,

New user but I have been reading for a bit on the handbooks and such which are nice, but now I am ready to discuss and hash out somethings with my own character in 3.5 D&D. Currently I am in my very first campaign which is fun, and I have been learning alot over the past few months we have been playing. Our group only meets once a week, but its fun.

In any case I come here looking for advice on my character and optimizing him In his intended path. Note that although other suggestions are nice, this is the path I have chosen for him to take and what I plan to see him through to the end, be it a good, or bad choice mechanically. So far I have a Warforged Scout level 9 rogue. I am hoping to get this character to 20 and thus have an idea on how to build him. He is going rogue10/warlock6/Dark Lantern4. Odd I know, but it's what I have come across in the campaign and what the DM is letting me do, which is nice at this point. my stats are

Hp53

Initi 3

Str 18
Dex 16
Con 15
Int 19
Wis 13
Cha 12

Fort 5
Reflex 9
Will 4

With the feats TWF, TWD, Mithral Body, and Victor's Luck. His stats and feats seem a little odd but again this is my first character and when I first created him I had mixed suggestions on how to best distribute stats, :smallannoyed: and thus his make up is off but workable. I am looking at what feats and stats to boost with the remaining feat and stat slots I have coming at the next few levels. Specifically lvl12 is in my mind right now and I am debating between a few feats. Craven would be nice, but our DM has thrown very big boss fights where my SA has gone completely out the window, and I am stuck praying I don't draw the thing's attention at times and trying to pot shot it with my long range. We have had others where it has worked but again, they have been fairly even thus far.

I am thinking of Oversized TWF to mitigate when his SA is useless on some enemies but I am unsure where to go to be honest, and I am looking for advice on future feats, and the building of this character. Note we are not using exp, but rather the DM is keeping track of our progress and raising our levels once we have accomplished enough, so the multiclass EXP rule is null and void for purposes of multiclassing. Thanks for the help.

[Mystify]

TWD is a horrible feat. +1 sheild bonus is weak, and later on you are much better off with an animated sheild. oversized two weapon fighting is also weak, as it is a really small damage boost on one weapon. Its not really going to help you against SA immune enemies.

[Keld Denar]

There are a couple different ACFs you can get to allow you to SA vs immune foes. The best, and most obscure, is the Lightbringer Rogue ACF from the Expedition to Castle Ravenloft module book. Slightly less good, but still good is the Penetrating Strike ACF from Dungeonscape. Both will let you SA your foe for half dice as long as you can flank. Craven is not dice, however, and would apply 100% as long as you have that ACF. If you get Crippling Strike as your 10th level Rogue toy, get the Savvy Rogue feat from Comp Scoundrel. It will allow you to do Str damage to foes who are normally immune. That gives you some really effective debuff power.

You need surivivability. I'd look into a Ring of Blinking, or a Wand of Greater Invisibility. Both are pricey, but totally worth it. There is a good guide out here about several dozen ways you can qualify for SA.

If you can engage the foe ahead of your team, there is a 4th level assassin spell called Snipers Shot, IIRC, which allows you to SA from any distance. That, combined with Eldritch Spear and some form of flight and invisibility would effectively allow you to solo most encounters from 180 feet away. Again, pricey, but not a bad plan.

[Jerthanis]

I am thinking of Oversized TWF to mitigate when his SA is useless on some enemies but I am unsure where to go to be honest, and I am looking for advice on future feats, and the building of this character. Note we are not using exp, but rather the DM is keeping track of our progress and raising our levels once we have accomplished enough, so the multiclass EXP rule is null and void for purposes of multiclassing. Thanks for the help.

Oversized TWF is only useful in that it makes Power Attack not totally suck for dual weapon fighters. If you're not Power Attacking, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting is a +1 average damage to only half of your attacks.

What exactly are you getting out of Warlock, if you don't mind me asking? Generally Warlocks' big problem is that their powers don't have enough potency per action, and so only taking a few levels seems like it's going to exacerbate that a lot. If you are interested in Warlocking, I think the best way to get milage out of it is to get the feats that shape the Eldrich Blast into weapons which... I believe come from Complete Mage.

[HunterColt22]

Oversized TWF is only useful in that it makes Power Attack not totally suck for dual weapon fighters. If you're not Power Attacking, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting is a +1 average damage to only half of your attacks.

What exactly are you getting out of Warlock, if you don't mind me asking? Generally Warlocks' big problem is that their powers don't have enough potency per action, and so only taking a few levels seems like it's going to exacerbate that a lot. If you are interested in Warlocking, I think the best way to get milage out of it is to get the feats that shape the Eldrich Blast into weapons which... I believe come from Complete Mage.

I am getting a few things from it. One invocations up to the lesser extent, which allows me to use walk unseen, which is very helpful for my sneaking along with my high stealth, I need not really worry about trying to get hide in plain sight anymore. Another thing is the hideous blow invocation. Granted there is debate on how it should be worded, but our DM is using it in that it does not provoke an AoO when used so this also allows me to add 3d6 of nearly unblock able damage on to weapon attacks, which is always good, even if only once a round. Te other invocations as well, which synergize well with my rogue's natural class skills such as beguiling influence. I am open to prestige class suggestions other than dark lantern however, since it is such a low level dip into prestige classes.

[Keld Denar]

Hideous Blow doesn't synergize with TWFing, though. If you aren't swinging that offhand weapon, you aren't utilizing all of those expensive feats you bought, nor that fancy weapon you bought. Sure, its 3d6, but you'll have 5d6 on your offhand (or more with higher BAB/ITWF/GTWF) just from SA alone. Thus, if you are spending your round to Falcon Punch someone for +3d6, you aren't plucking their kidneys out with a pair of rusty spoons.

Walk Unseen is decent, but isn't very action efficient in combat. Dinking around with it in combat often means that you aren't contributing effectively, and that your friends are getting extra beat up because you are doing things other than making foes dead. Plus, at higher levels, many foes like Outsiders will have True Seeing, so picking invisibility up so late is meh.

Again, you are looking at some looming action inefficiencies at high levels. You are trying to a couple things, and doing them poorly. Don't get me wrong, I love Warlock on a Rogue chassis, but if I were you, I'd ditch TWFing altogether and swap Hideous Blow for Eldritch Glaive. It's an invocation in Dragon Magic that makes a Glaive-like object that attacks as a touch. If you qualify for SA, that generally means you are aiming at AC 10+size+deflection mods. Your base weapon damage is your EB damage, and then you get SA damage on top of that. I'm not terribly familiar with Dark Lantern, but really, you'd probably be better off with more Rogue levels to get more special abilities like Skill Mastery and Opportunist.

[Gavinfoxx]

Have you read this guide to melee warlocks? It talks about eldritch glaive, eldritch claws, hideous blow, etc. etc.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159708

[HunterColt22]

Hideous Blow doesn't synergize with TWFing, though. If you aren't swinging that offhand weapon, you aren't utilizing all of those expensive feats you bought, nor that fancy weapon you bought. Sure, its 3d6, but you'll have 5d6 on your offhand (or more with higher BAB/ITWF/GTWF) just from SA alone. Thus, if you are spending your round to Falcon Punch someone for +3d6, you aren't plucking their kidneys out with a pair of rusty spoons.

I wouldn't be anyway... Considering a house rule where SA only procs once a round. In other words it procs on the first weapon that hits, not any other weapon or attack there after also gains the sneak attack for the person preforming the SA. Our DM put it this way, saying yeah you can have the extra 6d6 to make it 12d6 per total round of your combat, just know that it will happen to you, and probably with a lot more hurt also. So not only do I get to jab them with a rusty spork on my first hit, my off hand weapon can now falcon punch someone as it would be doing normally in a normal session with a different dm.

To the directly above poster, yes I have. Thanks for it's plug but I have read through it, and while very much helpful in helping my choose the invocations I might want to look at more thoroughly, I think the melee part seems rather wasted, in two classes starved for feats taking another feat for something that can be more beneficial than simply giving you a touch weapon form for your blast, when it is already touch based but at range, is rather odd in my mind. Effective, yes, but still odd. Plus my rapier gets around that cavity itself by having a touch enchantment on it already.

[Mystify]

I wouldn't be anyway... Considering a house rule where SA only procs once a round. In other words it procs on the first weapon that hits, not any other weapon or attack there after also gains the sneak attack for the person preforming the SA. Our DM put it this way, saying yeah you can have the extra 6d6 to make it 12d6 per total round of your combat, just know that it will happen to you, and probably with a lot more hurt also. So not only do I get to jab them with a rusty spork on my first hit, my off hand weapon can now falcon punch someone as it would be doing normally in a normal session with a different dm.

To the directly above poster, yes I have. Thanks for it's plug but I have read through it, and while very much helpful in helping my choose the invocations I might want to look at more thoroughly, I think the melee part seems rather wasted, in two classes starved for feats taking another feat for something that can be more beneficial than simply giving you a touch weapon form for your blast, when it is already touch based but at range, is rather odd in my mind. Effective, yes, but still odd. Plus my rapier gets around that cavity itself by having a touch enchantment on it already.
Rouges are meant to hit with lots of attacks with sneak attack die. Its how they are effective. If they get 1 SA per round, its worse than a completely unoptimized blaster mage, and that isn't very potent.

[Gavinfoxx]

I wouldn't be anyway... Considering a house rule where SA only procs once a round. In other words it procs on the first weapon that hits, not any other weapon or attack there after also gains the sneak attack for the person preforming the SA. Our DM put it this way, saying yeah you can have the extra 6d6 to make it 12d6 per total round of your combat, just know that it will happen to you, and probably with a lot more hurt also.

I would say, "Sure, great. I'm fine with rogues getting sneak attack in a per attack basis if they are flanking. That's how the game works, and how rogues are meant to function. Just remember the encounter level guidelines, and the associated experience point and treasure rewards, when adding player character classes to creatures that the party encounters."

You do not ever want your class features nerfed!

Then, you make sure to immediately buy fortification armor of some sort as soon as possible. Also remember how Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge work!!

[HunterColt22]

Yes I understand all of that. Two things to remember though, one this is my DM's home brew rule, and I willingly continued playing after I learned about it, so that should tell you all that as odd as it may be, I am willing to continue on with it for the experience of the game. Secondly, this is not helping with the clarifications I pointed out all ready. I made the character and am playing him in the world, even with these nerfs and other contingencies. I am looking for a way to optimize him in this setting. Also another note to remember, this is my very first DM game ever I have started. So some of these things I did not learn until later in the experience, and you know what I am fine with that at this point.

In any case. Are there any prestige class suggestions, this is the area I am most looking at considerably later in the game, the immediate threats such as survivability I can handle quite easily. More feat suggestions would be nice as well.

[Gavinfoxx]

If you can only sneak attack once a round, you want to retrain out of two weapon fighting using the PHB II rules, and get as big a single weapon you can. Even consider spending an exotic weapon proficiency feat if you have to... Focus on charging or tripping, two handed fighting, etc. Mostly ignore the fact that you have sneak attack as far as your build goes, and forget anything about two weapon fighting.

[Keld Denar]

Alternatively, its not too late to salvage a bit of casting on the build. You have a decent Int. Grab Wizard 1 at 10, then hop straight into Unseen Seer, which you should more than easily qualify for. Take Practiced Spellcaster at 12. I think you'll get more mileage out of a few spells than you will 3 invocations. Go Focused Specialist Conjourer, load up on spells like Lesser Orbs and Unicorn Arrows, and pew pew that way for spell damage + SA, since you only get it once per round. You'll get your own ability to cast the defensive spells you need. If you finish as Rog9/Wiz1/USS10, or maybe USS5/SpellwarpedSniper5 or such. You will have 11 full caster levels, which equals 6th level spells. Not great, but much better than your current plan.