Spellwarp Snipers and Chain Spell

[Ellrin]

Sorry if the question's been asked before (n00b), but if you have a spellwarp sniper using chain spell and sudden raystrike in conjunction, would you say the extra damage dice from sudden raystrike affect all applicable targets (ie, those within 30/60ft (depending on ray mastery) whose Dex bonus to AC is not being applied), or just the initial target?

Actually, on a tangent, can chain spell be applied at the same time as split ray? Since split ray assumes, at least, the ability to target more than one creature, and chain spell specifies "any spell that specifies a single target," I can see an argument being made against, but at the same time, if the original spell is a ray, it's, at least originally, a spell that specifies one target.

Thanks.

[Feralventas]

IIRC, sneak attack only applies to the first of the multiple strikes on the same spell (Scorching Ray, for example, would only have the effect applied to the first ray if you have high enough Caster Level for more.)

I could be mistaken and be thinking of Metamagic effects instead, so I'd suggest checking the Sneak Attack text in the page description first.

[Keld Denar]

Rays do not target, per the definition of targetting a spell in the PHB. They do not have a Target: line in their spell block. Since they aren't targetted, they aren't a valid subject for Chain Spell, which requires "a spell with a single target".

A Split Ray spell is a volley attack, as noted above. Depending on your reading of the Rules Compendium, a volley will never have SA more than once as long as you spend a standard action on it. In theory, then, it would get SA damage on both rays if you cast it as a Swift action (Quicken Spell, Arcane Spellsurge, etc), or as a full round action (spontaneously apply Metamagic).

That's one of the worst rules in the Rules Compendium, an otherwise decent book, so take that for what its worth, but that's the way the text falls on this one.

[Ellrin]

Rays do not target, per the definition of targetting a spell in the PHB. They do not have a Target: line in their spell block.

That's... that's a very good point, actually. I'd completely forgotten rays were effect spells, not target spells. *sigh* Ah, well.

For my secondary question, I already knew about the SAs and volleys, I was just curious about whether chain spell and split ray could function together, since split ray could make the spell multi-target; except the spell still wouldn't have a target, apparently, since it was a ray, so therefore the issue is kind of moot. Darn rules.

[Darrin]

That's one of the worst rules in the Rules Compendium, an otherwise decent book, so take that for what its worth, but that's the way the text falls on this one.

I've been mulling over that little wrinkle since it was last brought up... I think the Rules Compendium can be interpreted as more consistent if you treat the rules for Weaponlike Spells on page 136 as generally applying to all spells, regardless of action type. More specifically, under Multiple Hits:

"Some weaponlike spells can strike multiple times in the same round. When the caster receives a bonus on damage rolls or some form of extra damage (such as precision damage) with such spells, the extra damage applies only on the first attack, whether that attack hits or not."

As in, even if you cast scorching ray as a swift, standard, or full-round action, as a weaponlike spell, you only get sneak attack once. Period.

The Precision Damage rules on page 42 is trying to address all the different ways to get multiple attacks, and unfortunately it uses a quickened scorching ray as an example, and implies that a full-round scorching ray would get SA multiple times. As per the rules on page 136, it doesn't. At least, I think that's the best way to reconcile this discrepancy in the Rules Compendium.