Need help with an Unusual (Int Based) Druid Build

[SirFredgar]

Hello Playground,

I am making a Druid. I've made one before at level 12 or so, but never really got to play him too much (and didn't play him too well, admittedly, forgetting key buffs and such.) , so I decided that for this character at level 1, to try the class from the ground up.

I am planning on him being unsual for a druid, very intelligent as opposed to very wise. Because of this I will be taking the Lost Tradition Feat (out of some third party d20 book) that allows his spellcasting stat to be Intelligence based. I am also, in an effort to make him SAD, taking Faery Mysteries Inc Feat from Dragon Magazine (Int instead of Con for hp calculation is the intended boon).

So I've blow two of my three starting feats (I have two unpicked flaws I will have to grab to do this), but I cannot figure out the thrid.... or the rest of my feat tree for that matter. I know I will be grabbing Natural Spell at level 6 (pretty much mandatory), but that's it.

I like wild shape alot, and my last druid focused on it. He was a pounce/grappler. I would not mind doing the same on this character, but I know his feats were all messed up (I didn't pick up Imp grapple).

Some Ideas I have for feats:

Ashbound (if I went summoning)
Initiate of Malar (if we go Evil, for the augment summoning)
Plain old Spell Focus Conjuration - > Augment Summoning at level 3
Imp Unarmed -> Imp Grapple at 3
Companion Spellbond (For an AC focused build)
Initiate of Nature (haven't read the ability, just hear it's nifty. I like to rebuke things.)

Some other possibilities for later feats would also be frozen wildshape and natural bond to offset a more powerfull AC (may/may not be an option, still checking with GM about it)

I have the Stats 10, 14, 10, 20, 15, 16. I kept my highest stats mental, as wildshape negates the need for physical stats. Faery Mysteries elimates the need for con.

What do you all think?

[playswithfire]

If you can spare one level to not be druid, you might consider taking one level of monk (which will net you Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple) and then take Carmendine Monk from Champions of Valor, which switches the monk AC bonus from WIS to INT

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Natural Bond should be taken at 3rd or 1st level. You can apply your own effects in the most beneficial order, the 'level -3' from a stronger companion is one effect, Natural Bond's +3 is another effect, so you can apply them to still count your full Druid level toward its benefits.

Greenbound Summoning (LEoF) is extremely good, use Summon Nature's Ally I to get a Greenbound Dire Rat which immediately uses its Wall of Thorns spell-like ability. If it sticks around for more than one round, it can spam Entangle or just be a meat shield, considering how tough Greenbound creatures are to kill. SNA II can get a Greenbound Dire Bat, or multiple rats. With a Ring of the Beast you can get the bat with SNA I.

Magic of the Land (RotW) is a decent choice, especially if you're going Int-based. If you still need to pick your race, consider going with a Killoren (RotW) and use the Aspect of the Ancient with that.

Exalted Companion (BoED) to get a Celestial Dire Eagle (RoS) is pretty good, since your companion can then take Sacred Vow and VoP for some extremely cheesy bonuses. It won't work with a Fleshraker because you can't use poison and still be exalted. This also allows you to use (Greater) Luminous Armor.

[SirFredgar]

I think I will definitely be taking Natural Bond at 3. It's been implied I can find a Fleshraker in this setting, so I will definitely be using it for that purpose. Untill then: riding dog.

Other then that, though, It looks like I am going to be focusing on Wildshape combat. I figure grappling (effs spellcasters up without FoM). That means I am going to be taking Imp Unarmed (such a waste) for Imp Grapple. That is, unless anyone knows of any easier ways to get Imp Grapple... maybe an item that can grant it later.

So right now, it looks like:

Grey Elf Druid 1: Lost Tradition (int), Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Imp Unarmed
Druid 3: Natural Bond
Druid 6: Natural Spell.... no surprise there
Druid 9 Imp Grapple (one level after I get my meaty bear form)
Druid 12 + is open

[SirFredgar]

Okay, so I finally got to use this guy, and he didn't do too bad. He kinda sucks unless they are in melee range, but I managed to kill a goblin or two with my shortspears at range on occation. We actually managed to claw our way to level three, from level 1, in one night. Now I don't know what feat to pick because my animal companion is rocking it.

My original plan was Natural Bond, then pick up the fleshraker at level 4.... but my riding dog has proven to be quite beefy, at least so far.... so the feat seems a waste. Even if I -do- switch to fleshraker, that's a net gain of 2hd, 1 str, 1 dex, and 2 natural armor for a feat slot.... it just doesn't seem worth it, unless I'm missing something.

Here is my new build.


Druid 3

Name: Iril Sweatleaf
Type: Humaniod (Dragonblooded)
Race: Forestlord Grey Elf
Height: 5' 6"
Weight: 150 lbs
Age: 120
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral

AC: 17 (+3 Armor, +2 Shield, +2 dex)
HP: 28 (8 +3 +2 +15 for int)
Speed: 30
Init: 2

Saves: Total = Base + Mod + Misc
Fort: 3 = 3 + 0
Ref: 3 = 1 + 2
Will: 8 = 3 + 5

Str: 10 (+0)
Dex: 14 (+2)
Con: 10 (+0)
Int: 20 (+5)
Wis: 15 (+2)
Cha: 16 (+3)

Attacks:
BAB: 2
Melee: 2 = 2 + 0
Ranged: 4 = 2 + 2

Feat:
Lost Tadition (Bastards and Bloodlines) (int based spellcasting)
Keen Intellect (Dragon Magazine 318) (Int to will saves, int to survival and spot)
Faerie Mysteries Initiate (Dragon Magazine 319) (Int replaces Con for HP)

Abilites:

Treewalk (Su): Once per day a forestlord elf may enter a tree by touching it as a move action; once inside the tree he may

instantly teleport to any other tree within 60 feet. He appears in a 5 ft. square adjacent to the tree on his next turn. He

may use this ability 1 addition time per day for every 5HD. Any forestlord looses this ability for 24 hours if they attack

or otherwise attempt to harm a green dragon, in addition to taking a -1 to attack rolls, saving throws, and caster level.

Animal companion (See Below)
Nature sense
Wild empathy
Woodland Stride
Trackless Step

Qualities:


Immunity to sleep spells and effects
Low-light vision.
Hide is always a class skill
+2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is

entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.



Flaws:

INSOMNIAC [FLAW]
You have great difficulty achieving a full and restful sleep.
Effect: In order to get a full night of rest you must succeed
at a DC 15 Fortitude save. If you are sleeping and a
disturbance wakes you during the night, you must make an
additional save (at the same DC) to return to sleep. If you fail
the Fortitude save you are fatigued when you rise in the
morning. If you are fatigued when you try to sleep, you gain a
+2 bonus on your save. If you are exhausted, you gain a +6
bonus. Comfortable conditions, such as those found in most
inns, grant you a +4 bonus on this save. Poor conditions, such
as sleeping on the ground or in armor, give you a -4 penalty
on this save. Even if you sleep poorly, you may prepare arcane
spells as normal after 8 hours of fitful rest.
Suggested Class/Race: Half-Elf
Dragon Magazine #: 328 (Nobody’s Perfect – New Flaws
for Nonhumans)

METAL INTOLERANCE [FLAW]
You are allergic to metals.
Effect: You suffer an additional point of damage when
struck by metal weapons. The natural attacks of inevitables,
iron golems, and other creatures composed of metal also deal
this additional damage.
Suggested Class/Race: Druids
Dragon Magazine #: 324 (Flaws For Druids)



Skills:

Concentration (Con): 6 = 6 ranks + 0 mod
Handle Animal (Cha): 9 = 6 ranks + 3 mod
Hide (Dex): 8 = 6 ranks +2 mod
Knowledge (nature) (Int): 15 = 6 ranks +5 mod +2 Nature Sense +2 synergy
Listen (Wis): 10 = 6 ranks +2 mod +2 racial
Move Silently (Dex): 5 = 3 cross-class ranks +2 mod
Ride (Dex): 6 = 2 ranks + 2 mod +2 synergy
Search (Int): 7 = +5 mod +2 racial
Spellcraft (Int): 11 = 6 ranks +5 mod
Spot (Int): 13 = 6 ranks +5 mod +2 racial
Survival (Int): 15 = 6 ranks +5 mod +2 Nature Sense +2 synergy




Languages:

Common
Elven
Draconic
Gnoll
Goblin
Orc
Sylvan

Animal Companion: War Trained Riding Dog

Size/Type: Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 4d8+12 (30 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 40 ft.
Armor Class: 20 (+2 Leather Barding, +2 Dex, +6 natural armor), touch 12, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+6
Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+4)
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+4)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Trip
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent, Link, share spells, Evasion
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +1
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Skills: Jump +9, Listen +6, Spot +6, Swim +4, Survival +1*
Feats: Alertness, Track(B), Combat Reflexes

Trip (Ex)
A Riding Dog that hits with a bite attack can attempt to trip the opponent (+1 check modifier) as a free action without

making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the

Riding Dog.

Riding dogs have a +4 racial bonus on Jump checks. *Riding dogs have a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking by

scent.


Gold: 2553.1 (Gold.SilverCopper)
Equipment:
Limits: Light 33lb, Medium 33-66lbs, Heavy 67-100lbs
Current: 66lbs

Hide Armor 25lb
Club 3lb.
Heavy Wooden Shield 10lb.
Backpack 2lb.
Bedroll 5lb
Waterskin 4lb.
Flint and Steal -
Spell Component Pouch 2lb
Holly and Mistletoe
Explorer's Outfit 8lb.
2 shortspears 3lb.
Dagger 1lb



What do you think I should take at level 3 in place of natural bond. I think I'm going Wildshape focused, and will be getting imp grapple later on down the road by either burning two feat slots, or dipping one level in monk. If I do the monk dip, I'll be taking the Kung Fu genious feat.... but I didn't plan on this untill after level 8 or so.

Thoughts?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

My original plan was Natural Bond, then pick up the fleshraker at level 4.... but my riding dog has proven to be quite beefy, at least so far.... so the feat seems a waste. Even if I -do- switch to fleshraker, that's a net gain of 2hd, 1 str, 1 dex, and 2 natural armor for a feat slot.... it just doesn't seem worth it, unless I'm missing something.

Defensively it may not be much difference, but let's compare their offensive capabilities:

War Dog: 1 Bite (trip).
Fleshraker: Charges, leaps upon an opponent, 2 Claws (poison), Bite, Tail (Poison), Rake; trip, grapple check to establish a pin.

Plus you can give it feats like Ability Focus: Poison and Virulent Poison for a higher DC. Also don't forget that it can take enough cross-class ranks in Spellcraft to pick up Mage Slayer. Power Attack and Leap Attack are also good, especially if you give it Armbands of Might and have it always Power Attack for -2 to hit, +4 damage (+8 with Leap Attack).

You can take Kung Fu Genius without gaining a single Monk level, and wear a Monk's Belt to get your Int bonus to AC.

For your level 12+ feats, Quicken Spell is a great choice. Since you're an Elf, you can dip a level into Seeker of the Misty Isle to get some spiffy Travel domain spells. For something completely different, since your Cha score is so high anyway, you can go Druid 8/ Suel Arcanamach 2/ Arcane Heirophant. That takes a few feats, you can get Iron Will by falling into the Otyugh Hole for a week, but you'll want Practiced Spellcaster at least once.

[SirFredgar]

You can take Kung Fu Genius without gaining a single Monk level, and wear a Monk's Belt to get your Int bonus to AC.


*Stares*



You can take Kung Fu Genius without gaining a single Monk level, and wear a Monk's Belt to get your Int bonus to AC.


*blink*



Prerequisite: Int 13, must be gained at or before the first level of the monk class is taken.


Mind = Blown.

I really had no idea that this was legal, even though I allowed a player to do it with Carmedine Monk... I should have just pointed him to Kung Fu Genius and been all smiles. Man.... now the only thing a monk dip gets me is imp unarmed.



Defensively it may not be much difference, but let's compare their offensive capabilities:

War Dog: 1 Bite (trip).
Fleshraker: Charges, leaps upon an opponent, 2 Claws (poison), Bite, Tail (Poison), Rake; trip, grapple check to establish a pin.

Plus you can give it feats like Ability Focus: Poison and Virulent Poison for a higher DC. Also don't forget that it can take enough cross-class ranks in Spellcraft to pick up Mage Slayer. Power Attack and Leap Attack are also good, especially if you give it Armbands of Might and have it always Power Attack for -2 to hit, +4 damage (+8 with Leap Attack).


I know the fleshraker will outshine the War Dog offensively, but I was wondering if the Natural Bond feat was worth it for the fleshraker goodness. It's delaying it's access to multiattack, but ultimately it only looses out on hd/str/na/1 trick.... no abilities lost like multiattack. The HD seem like the biggest lost to me, but are those 2 hd worth a feat on natural bond, or should I skip it for something else that would benefit me in the short term?

[Acanous]

The only reason not to take the feat and the fleshraker is if you're taking the OTHER feat for the Celestial Eagle.

Given your alignment, you're kind of locked in to take the 'raker. Take the raker.

Also all of my wizards from now on are taking Kung-Fu Genius. I had no idea.

[Manateee]

If retraining and Bastards and Bloodlines are in, you'll probably want to retrain Lost Tradition to Strength as soon as you get Large shapes. Even if you're focusing on Intelligence for skills, 27+ base stat is hard to beat.

[SirFredgar]

If retraining and Bastards and Bloodlines are in, you'll probably want to retrain Lost Tradition to Strength as soon as you get Large shapes. Even if you're focusing on Intelligence for skills, 27+ base stat is hard to beat.

While our table is permissive with Lost Tradition, we generally don't pick physical stats for just that reason. To be honest I haven't tried.... it might be too high on the cheese scale for me anyways.