How many attacks can you get? [3.5]

[kulosle]

So I'm am playing a very simple weapon thrower. warblade 5, master thrower 5, Bloodstorm blade 5, invisible blade 5. Extra arms with soulmeld feats and throwing daggers. It isn't that optimized but it is a lot of attacks. I was playing with a new DM and I'm already regretting not investigating further. He was complaining about me having too many attacks. Something along the line of abusing combinations to gain too many attacks. I know, and you know that this is no where near optimized or abusive. So I was wondering, how many attacks can you get on a single character. How efficient those attacks are don't matter. The arguement made by the DM is that even though my attacks weren't that great it still was to abusive. So break out the cheese and how many attacks can you get?

[NineThePuma]

How many attacks are you getting now?

[Manateee]

Warshaper says hi. Arbitrarily many times.

Edit:
Actually, if we don't care about efficiency, does Avalanche of Blades count as infinite attacks?

[Curmudgeon]

Extra arms don't get you any extra iterative attacks.

[NineThePuma]

Extra arms don't get you any extra iterative attacks.

They get you extra primaries, plus multi weapon fighting though.

[Snowbluff]

My max hovers around 22-24 with Time Stands Still, Mongoosy thingy, TWF, Slashing Flurry.

How many slashes do you thing we could get with Avalanche reliably, cuz I love Ava, too!

[Mystify]

I made a gestalt build based on this once. I call it the whirling blender, since it uses a double sword in a dervish dance, and at full throttle would be getting over 51/2 attacks per second.

fighter 10/dervish 10 on one half
Monk 12/ EWM master 1/ scout 5/ fighter 2/ dragon shaman 1 on the other

Then you can push it into epic levels with another monk/dervish progression

Feats:

e. weapon proficiency (double sword), weapon focus double sword, combat expertise, weapon specialization, improved grapple, combat reflexes, double steel strike, improved two weapon fighting, dodge, melee weapon mastery slashing, mobility, greater weapon focus, greater two wepaon fighting, greater weapon specilization, improved skirmish, slashing fury

If you go to 21, you add in perfect two weapon fighting.


This yeilded an attack progression of +38/+38/+38/+38/+38/+38/+38/+33/+33/+28/+28/+23/+26
each strike does 1d8+35+5d6+1d6, except for the last which is a bite that deals 1d6+12+4d6

once per day, you can use thousand cuts to double that.

if yo ugo to the epic levels, you get 11 attacks at full bonus, and 7 at decreasing BaB, which can also be doubled.
So, that is 21 attacks at full, and 13 at lower bonuses.
It would be better to drop slashing fury, as its a -5 penalty for 1 more attack, but you asked for sheer quantity.

All of these are while in a dervish dance, and can cleave. It uses a double-sword, which is the only weapon I know of that can work with this build.

There are a lot of levels devoted to damage, not attacks, so you could probably reorganize it to get things like a prehensile tail and use multiweapon fighting, more natural weapons, etc.

[Zombulian]

Think someone said this, but yea, with Warshaper + hengeokai or changeling then I can have infinite attacks by lvl 5. Also there's the whole "make infinite copies of yourself to punch people" with Body Outside Body Wu Jen.

[HunterOfJello]

Crusaders have an inifinte shuriken throwing build. I'd have to go with that one. It requires a feat that has a roll of 1 damage count as 2 (don't ask me why such a crappy feat exists) and their Chaos stance. They throw a shuriken, it rolls a 1 or 2 for damage, counts as a 2, then they get to throw another one. Arguably, it could end when they run out of shurikens. Then again, finding a way to get an infinite number of shurikens does not sound difficult whatsoever in d&d.

That's not how it works, I've been corrected. (Multiple times)

There are also attack of oppurtunity loops that may or may not work by RAW. I've been wondering about that one for a while.

[dextercorvia]

Jr. Idiot Crusader with WRT gets all of them. Yes, even those.

There is a trick with Lightning Mace as well.

[dextercorvia]

Crusaders have an inifinte shuriken throwing build. I'd have to go with that one. It requires a feat that has a roll of 1 damage count as 2 (don't ask me why such a crappy feat exists) and their Chaos stance. They throw a shuriken, it rolls a 1 or 2 for damage, counts as a 2, then they get to throw another one. Arguably, it could end when they run out of shurikens. Then again, finding a way to get an infinite number of shurikens does not sound difficult whatsoever in d&d.

There are also attack of oppurtunity loops that may or may not work by RAW. I've been wondering about that one for a while.

That is a damage hack, not an attack hack. When they roll a 2, the get to roll again, not attack again.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'm pretty sure Mr. Persistent Twinned Fell Drain Cloud of Knives (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197237#20) x50 laughs at your shenanigans. (That's not even level 20, and there's later discussion on how to get a considerably higher number of them as well.)

[Curious]

My best is 150+ or so, with the build bellow.

(Synthesist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/archetypes/paizo---summoner-archetypes/synthesist)) Summoner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner) 20// (Dawnflower Dervish (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/dawnflower-dervish)) Bard (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard) 4/ Warblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2) 16.

Race: Silverbrow Human (for the Dragonblood subtype).

Feats:
Flaw- Dragonfire Inspiration
1st- Multiweapon Fighting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/multiweapon-fighting-combat)
Human- Extra Performance
3rd- Song of the White Raven
5th- Words of Creation
7th- Improved Multiweapon Fighting
9th- Song of the Heart
11th- Greater Multiweapon Fighting
13th- Experimental Spellcaster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/words-of-power) (Accelerate (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/words-of-power/effect-words/accelerate))
15th- Whatever
17th- Whatever
19th- Whatever

Warblade Bonus Feats: Whatever.

All of your Eidolons evolution points should be spent on gaining more and more arms, except at level 8, when you should increase your size to large. All of your arms should be wielding masterwork kukris, ignore magic weapons.

The Dragonfire Inspiration (which requires the Dragonblood subtype) feat turns all of your +x's from the Bards Inspire Courage into +xd6's of extra damage on every attack you make. The Dawnflower Dervish archetype doubles your Inspire Courage bonus, but at the price that it only applies to you. Song of the Heart increases your Inspire Courage by another +1, and Words of Creation doubles the resulting score. Song of the White Raven makes your Bard and Warblade levels stack for determining your effective bard level for Inspire Courage. This results in you getting +20d6 damage to every attack you make.

The Accelerate wordspell allows you to gain an extra move action every turn for several rounds, and is only a 2nd level spell.

The Warblade levels are there so that you can gain two particular maneuvers; White Raven Tactics (which allows you to gain an extra turn as a swift action), and Time Stands Still (which allows you to take two full attacks at once).


So, your combat rounds would look like this.
1st Round- Cast Accelerate (standard action), begin Bardic Performance (move Action), initiate White Raven Tactics (swift action).

2nd Round (gained with White Raven Tactics)- Move towards enemy (extra move action), initiate Time Stands Still (full-round action).

You get 146 attacks, each with +20d6 bonus damage.

[HunterOfJello]

That is a damage hack, not an attack hack. When they roll a 2, the get to roll again, not attack again.

Wow. I had that one completely misunderstood. It makes much more sense now.


Also, I'd be very interested in a build that obtains as many natural attack forms and inhumanly possible.

[NNescio]

Crusaders have an inifinte shuriken throwing build. I'd have to go with that one. It requires a feat that has a roll of 1 damage count as 2 (don't ask me why such a crappy feat exists) and their Chaos stance. They throw a shuriken, it rolls a 1 or 2 for damage, counts as a 2, then they get to throw another one. Arguably, it could end when they run out of shurikens. Then again, finding a way to get an infinite number of shurikens does not sound difficult whatsoever in d&d.

...that's not how it works. Aura of Chaos lets you reroll your damage die if you roll max damage (which Imbued Healing guarantees). You don't throw another shuriken.

(...and that would require another attack roll anyway, which can actually miss, breaking the infinite loop.)

Now, this sounds even more broken, but this clause may potentially be the downfall of the 1d2 Crusader -- it is not clear if you can actually choose not to roll any more dice, from a strictly RAW perspective.

Also, Imbued Healing doesn't work the way you think it does. It gives you the ability to infuse your healing spells with an additional carrier effect (read:buff) that lasts for one minute per spell level of the healing spell casted. The specific buff depends on the domains you have available, and the Luck Domain's carrier effect lets the recipient of the buff treat all damage rolls of 1 as 2 for its duration.

Edit: Swordsage'd.

[tyckspoon]

Extra arms don't get you any extra iterative attacks.

They do if you're using Multiweapon Fighting, although I don't know if the arms from the Girallon Arms soulmeld actually qualify as weapon-use-capable limbs for that purpose- the text is somewhat unclear on if you actually get independent limbs from the bind or if it's just the claws.


hmm.. assuming this works, because the Incarnum rules do not, as far as I can tell, address this:

Be a Dragonwrought Kobold or Elan Totemist. Take the Double Chakra feat, bind Lamia Belt and Girallon Arms to your Totem (this bit is perfectly clear and legal.) This gets you six claws. Now *also* bind the Girallon Arms to your hands (this part, I don't know if you can actually do- it's stated several times that you can't bind 2 soulmelds to the same chakra without using Double Chakra, but I can't find anything about the potential of having one Soulmeld bound in 2 different spots.. admittedly it probably didn't occur to the authors too much, because the Totemist is the only one who might be able to do it.) Now, any time you hit with 2 claws, you also rend for an automatic double-damage hit.

Now, here's why those specific races: Take Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike from Draconomicon. These let you make extra attacks with a set of natural weapons. You have at least 2: The pair of claws from the Lamia Belt, and the set of four from Girallon Arms. So you'll be wanting Rapidstrike once and then Improved Rapidstrike twice, once for each set. (Rapidstrike and its Improved version have a pretty hefty BAB requirement, so you'll probably want to switch to something with full BAB after getting Double Chakra.. and you may have to do something really cheesy to fit an extra feat in for the second Imp. Rapidstrike.)

So your attack routine looks like: Primary Claw + 4 'iterative' Rapidstrike attacks/3x Primary Claw (this is the Girallon arms- Rapidstrike scales down its bonuses at the same rate as iteratives, but aren't.. actually iteratives, so you can take all 4 extra attacks it allows even if your attack bonus goes to negatives)/Secondary Claw + 4 Rapidstrikes/Secondary Claw, plus every other hit sets off a Rend, plus whatever else you've managed to scrounge up; I know of a purchasable Gore attack, if you're a Kobold you've got a Bite, you should have an attack from Haste any time that's relevant..

[Mystify]

Oh I also have an infinite loop for attacks. Let me see if I can remember it all.

First, you need the epic feat for unlimited attacks of oppurtunity per round.
Then you need roblair's gambit, to get an attack of oppurtunity whenever somebody attacks you.

then you have opportunistic tactician, so whenever you make an attack of opportunity you may take a bonus 5' step.

You then get as high a DR as you can, in a variety that you can't easily penetrate.build for low damage, and get heavy fortification to negate crits. Pick up a dagger. If you do it right, the dagger cannot damage you through your DR, even with roblair's gambit active. You stand oppisite an identical build, activate roblair's gambit on both of you, and take a swing. Your attack provokes an attack op from them, and they take a 5ft step. Their counterattack provokes an attack op from you, and you take a ft step as well, remaining adjacent to them at all times, but migrateing your position. This creates an infinite cycle of attack and counterattack, which generates an infinite number of 5ft steps. You have an infinite number of attacks, and infinite movement, so you can go anywhere. An airwalk spell on each of you means you can 5ft step to anywhere, and/or etherealness and ghost touch weapons so even walls are not an obstacle.

There was a final piece to this combat that I cannot remember, but it let them strike at adjacent foes while doing the exchange, so they could whittle down anything without DR they can't penetrate, and effecticely nuke the entire planet, one dagger slash at a time.

[Curious]

My best is 150+ or so, with the build bellow.

(Synthesist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/archetypes/paizo---summoner-archetypes/synthesist)) Summoner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner) 20// (Dawnflower Dervish (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/dawnflower-dervish)) Bard (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard) 4/ Warblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2) 16.

Race: Silverbrow Human (for the Dragonblood subtype).

Feats:
Flaw- Dragonfire Inspiration
1st- Multiweapon Fighting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/multiweapon-fighting-combat)
Human- Extra Performance
3rd- Song of the White Raven
5th- Words of Creation
7th- Improved Multiweapon Fighting
9th- Song of the Heart
11th- Greater Multiweapon Fighting
13th- Experimental Spellcaster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/words-of-power) (Accelerate (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/words-of-power/effect-words/accelerate))
15th- Whatever
17th- Whatever
19th- Whatever

Warblade Bonus Feats: Whatever.

All of your Eidolons evolution points should be spent on gaining more and more arms, except at level 8, when you should increase your size to large. All of your arms should be wielding masterwork kukris, ignore magic weapons.

The Dragonfire Inspiration (which requires the Dragonblood subtype) feat turns all of your +x's from the Bards Inspire Courage into +xd6's of extra damage on every attack you make. The Dawnflower Dervish archetype doubles your Inspire Courage bonus, but at the price that it only applies to you. Song of the Heart increases your Inspire Courage by another +1, and Words of Creation doubles the resulting score. Song of the White Raven makes your Bard and Warblade levels stack for determining your effective bard level for Inspire Courage. This results in you getting +20d6 damage to every attack you make.

The Accelerate wordspell allows you to gain an extra move action every turn for several rounds, and is only a 2nd level spell.

The Warblade levels are there so that you can gain two particular maneuvers; White Raven Tactics (which allows you to gain an extra turn as a swift action), and Time Stands Still (which allows you to take two full attacks at once).


So, your combat rounds would look like this.
1st Round- Cast Accelerate (standard action), begin Bardic Performance (move Action), initiate White Raven Tactics (swift action).

2nd Round (gained with White Raven Tactics)- Move towards enemy (extra move action), initiate Time Stands Still (full-round action).

You get 146 attacks, each with +20d6 bonus damage.

Oh yeah, I did the math, this guy can take out the Hecatoncheires without even giving him the chance to attack back. Probably not that impressive, but not bad.

[Keld Denar]

A level 1 wizard with Precocious Apprentice (Whirling Blade) + Sudden Widen could attack a line of kobolds 2 wide and 120' deep. Thats 48 attacks at level 1, assuming you could get the kobolds to line up just right. I don't think I've ever seen more than that at level 1.

[TroubleBrewing]

A level 1 wizard with Precocious Apprentice (Whirling Blade) + Sudden Widen could attack a line of kobolds 2 wide and 120' deep. Thats 48 attacks at level 1, assuming you could get the kobolds to line up just right. I don't think I've ever seen more than that at level 1.

For Pelor's sake, Keld! Suggesting that many Kobold murders is tantamount to media suicide! Do you really want the Dragon Lawyers to pay us a visit again?

Use Catgirls like everyone else! Nobody gives two rat droppings about them.

[kardar233]

A thread (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=146.0) on BG gets 1,067,212 attacks as a full-round action.

Basically, get tons of limbs (doesn't matter if you can use them for anything), use Arms of Man on most, get a whole bunch of heads and get tentacles on them, use a magic item to turn all your legs into 10 tentacles each, use Arms of Man on all the tentacles, use Mouthpick Weapons and Braid Blades on all the heads. Use Dragonwrought Kobold epic feats to get Perfect Multiweapon Fighting.

Be a Dervish/Master Thrower. Use the Dervish's Thousand Cuts ability, the Master Thrower's Palm Throw ability and Crescent Knives to multiply your attacks.

Yes. A million attacks. I don't care what you hit with that, it's dead.


~EDIT~ Or, of course, you could use a Lightning Maces exploit for infinite attacks, but where's the fun in that?

[kulosle]

Think someone said this, but yea, with Warshaper + hengeokai or changeling then I can have infinite attacks by lvl 5. Also there's the whole "make infinite copies of yourself to punch people" with Body Outside Body Wu Jen.

I'm not familiar with either of these tactics. Would you be so kind as to explain them to me?

My character wasn't trying to get a lot of attacks the DM was just not use to any level of optimization so when I got a meager 40 attacks he was flipping out.

The lighting mace trick isn't actually infinite in pure 3.5. There is no way to guarantee to get a critical. It does still lead to an fairly high number though.

I thoroughly enjoy the 1 million plus attacks. I think that is hilarious. I'll show the DM that and he won't be complaining about my 40.

[Mystify]

I thoroughly enjoy the 1 million plus attacks. I think that is hilarious. I'll show the DM that and he won't be complaining about my 40.
By that logic, if its not pun-pun, it should be allowed.

[kardar233]

I'm not familiar with either of these tactics. Would you be so kind as to explain them to me?

My character wasn't trying to get a lot of attacks the DM was just not use to any level of optimization so when I got a meager 40 attacks he was flipping out.

The lighting mace trick isn't actually infinite in pure 3.5. There is no way to guarantee to get a critical. It does still lead to an fairly high number though.

I thoroughly enjoy the 1 million plus attacks. I think that is hilarious. I'll show the DM that and he won't be complaining about my 40.

Warshaper allows you to grow natural attacks, but doesn't put a cap on it. Body Outside Body is a Wu Jen spell that creates several non-spellcasting versions of you. Not sure how you get it to infinite though.

If you're using Aptitude Weapons, you can stack Lightning Maces and Roundabout Kick to get two free attacks per crit. Due to the way branching works, this means that it is quite likely to go to infinite. I recall one person doing the calculations and getting a ~60-70% chance to go infinite on any given attack for a certain build.

[Zombulian]

The way that you can make infinite copies of yourself is by being a Wu Jen and then going into Archmage. You make Body Outside Body a spell like ability, and you make a copy of yourself. Since your copy acts on your turn he can then make a copy of himself and so on. Infinite you's :smallbiggrin:! Granted at a certain point they won't have more than 1 health. Think Naruto and it's Multi-Shadowclone Jutsu :smalltongue:

Edit: Also you can get into Warshaper by lvl 5 as a Hengeokai or Changeling because the only requirement to get in is +4 BAB and the shapechanger subtype. Also all of the powers that are granted by it work whenever you are in a form other than your own. So whenever you are in your hybrid form or disguised form for either race (always.)
I would also recommend you get a massive dice roller so play doesn't stop every time it's your turn. That sucks.
Editedit: I would also recommend that you make Transcend Mortality a spell-like ability as well. So you don't die from your million minions dying from a fireball, and you taking 10 damage for each one that died. Well, more so that your million minions DON'T die from a single fireball.

[Master Thrower]

I'm not familiar with either of these tactics. Would you be so kind as to explain them to me?

My character wasn't trying to get a lot of attacks the DM was just not use to any level of optimization so when I got a meager 40 attacks he was flipping out.

The lighting mace trick isn't actually infinite in pure 3.5. There is no way to guarantee to get a critical. It does still lead to an fairly high number though.

I thoroughly enjoy the 1 million plus attacks. I think that is hilarious. I'll show the DM that and he won't be complaining about my 40.

So instead of trying to campaign wreck a new/un-optimized DM, why don't you try talking to him?
Cause what your trying to do just comes off as petty, just because somebody isnt as good at optimizing, you won't show them your build isn't OP by going with TO, because your build is OP for that level of play. TO is just that much worse to them
instead talk to him, ask why its OP, and see if you can go with a support role (inspire courage bard, BFC wizard) it'll be more constructive, and less childish

[kulosle]

I wasn't intending on saying I was right or anything. I know that I'm not trying to optimize and its apparent that it was too much for their table. I just wanted to explain how I wasn't trying to optimize. We've discussed doing other options for my character, possibly killing him off. Its all good I didn't put too much thought into this character.

[Chronos]

From the OP:
Extra arms with soulmeld feats and throwing daggers.
This doesn't work. Girallon Arms doesn't give you extra arms unless you bind it to your totem chakra, and the only way to get a totem chakra is to take two levels of Totemist. You can't get the extra arms just from feats.

[Ezekiul]

The record thread has it at 1496 attacks in a round. Cant find a link to the actually thread though :/

[Snowbluff]

Warshaper allows you to grow natural attacks, but doesn't put a cap on it.

I looked at warshaper and found that this is wrong. If you read it more carefully, it says if you choose a natural weapon you already have (the example used is a wolf's bite attack) the damage increases rather than you gaining another pair. The wording is weird, but one can infer that RAI is that this is how that is supposed to work. Still, it is a level 1 abilty, which can grow an extra tentacle for holding thins with Gloves of Man.

TL;DR The warshaper is limited to the number of types of natural weapons that exist.

EDIT: Also, there is Deepspawn which gives 2 tentacles that with the GoM (which you need for Girallon arms to give hands, too) that can hold things as well.

[mikau013]

There is always the cooking with gas build, for free action breath weapons, so theoretically limitless attacks at lvl 1

[DoctorGlock]

Before going down the old BG boards had something that pulled well over a million attacks

[Snowbluff]

From the OP:
This doesn't work. Girallon Arms doesn't give you extra arms unless you bind it to your totem chakra, and the only way to get a totem chakra is to take two levels of Totemist. You can't get the extra arms just from feats.


There is always the cooking with gas build, for free action breath weapons, so theoretically limitless attacks at lvl 1

Using Gibbering Mouther Wild Shape (Aberration Blood, Aberration Wild Shape, LoM) you can deal 1d4 damage and blind everyone in 30 feet as a free action.