More Draconic Bard...

[Tyger]

I have a level 14 character (Bard 9 / Mindbender 1 / Sublime Chord 4) who is a Silverbrow human. He has a love of fire (yes, I know that Silver's don't use fire, but DFI gives fire as a default so I am working with what I have) and I am looking for ways to have him tap deeper into his draconic heritage.

So far he's got Dragonfire Inspiration and Draconic Aura: Resistance (fire) feats, a couple of fire spells (Orb of Fire and Firebrand) and I am looking for more ways to either work with the fire theme or dragon theme - specifically a way to gain a breath weapon.

I am not really keen to lose any caster levels, but PrCs are an option if they are appropriately themed. Spells are limited to PHB, PHBII and SpC (which is hardly a limitation) and almost all sourcebooks are in, though no third party at this point, though I am open to discussion on that, as the DM is really reasonable and if it isn't over the top it could probably fly.

Not looking for optimization tricks or ideas how I could make the character more powerful - I am actually in the process of reducing his power level as he is too optimized at present.

tl;dr version: any interesting and thematic dragon and/or fire themed abilities available?

[Dusk Eclipse]

If you have sandstorm available, have a good look into Searing Spell, a +1 Metamagic feat that allows you to bypass Fire immunities... how awesome is that your fire is SO HOT it can burn even beings of fire? Not to mention other pesky nuisances like many outsiders.

I am also pretty sure that if you ask your DM nicely you can get some of the Fire Wujen spells added to your list, they are hardly broken IMO.

Fire Wings makes for a nice mental image, though depending on what you are using for your bardic performance it might not be feasible..unless you took lingering song.

[Tyger]

If you have sandstorm available, have a good look into Searing Spell, a +1 Metamagic feat that allows you to bypass Fire immunities... how awesome is that your fire is SO HOT it can burn even beings of fire? Not to mention other pesky nuisances like many outsiders.

Yeah, this is on my list of things to look into at level 15.


I am also pretty sure that if you ask your DM nicely you can get some of the Fire Wujen spells added to your list, they are hardly broken IMO.

I might try, but we do try to limit our spells to the sources listed, and as he's already said no to importing some other spells, likely not going to happen.


Fire Wings makes for a nice mental image, though depending on what you are using for your bardic performance it might not be feasible..unless you took lingering song.

I have Lingering Song - what is "Fire Wings"? Is that a spell? I have the Phoenix Cloak MI from the MiC and may pick up the rest of the set just so I can have my cloak turn into fire when I fly.

I also just discovered Person_Man's "How to gain breath weapon" list - should have known that he would have one. The Draconic Breath feat might be exactly what the doctor ordered, though I'd have to ask the DM to waive the pre-reqs "Draconic Heritage and Sorcerer 1" - shouldn't be hard as I am Dragonblooded and Sublime Chord... time will tell.

Keep them coming folks!

[kardar233]

See if you can get Dragon Magic. There's a ton of dragon-themed spells there (including my favourite whose name I can't recall but consists of breathing a cone of fire breath and then teleporting anywhere inside it), and I'm pretty sure that Sublime Chord is close enough to Sorceror to qualify for the Sorc-only Spells.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Fire wings is a Wu Jen spells that turns your arms into flaming wings for 10 mins per level, and allows you to have a fly speed of 60 ft.(good) and also allows you to make attacks that deal your unarmed attack damage plus 2d6 fire damage; but at a -4 penalty. I only recommended it for the mental image; but if you already have the phoenix cloak then the point is moot.

[Gullara]

Well, on the topic of dragon heritage and a breath weapon, off the top of my head I can think of the Dragon Disciple PrC.

How beneficial taking the class would be is another matter entirely. :smalltongue:

[Jheska]

You can take the dragonborn ritual at any time in your character's carrer. As an added bonus you retain the dragonblooded subtype, something to consider.

[Ellrin]

Well, on the topic of dragon heritage and a breath weapon, off the top of my head I can think of the Dragon Disciple PrC.

How beneficial taking the class would be is another matter entirely. :smalltongue:

We had a bard a long time ago in a campaign I'm in who went Dragon Disciple. I'm not sure if it's more because the player was clever or because the build was actually any good, but it worked pretty well. He was this surly old guy banging away on some drums, who also had an item (our DM's homebrew) that let him rage. And his main weapons were a whip and a net.

So yeah, the sheer flavor awesomeness of being an acid-breathing, cranky, raging, drumming S&M fiend may also have contributed to his success. Sadly, another party member brought him down.

@OP
I don't remember how many energy spells bards gain access to, but if you're just looking for fire-related flavor, have you considered Energy Substitution?

[Tyger]

We had a bard a long time ago in a campaign I'm in who went Dragon Disciple. I'm not sure if it's more because the player was clever or because the build was actually any good, but it worked pretty well. He was this surly old guy banging away on some drums, who also had an item (our DM's homebrew) that let him rage. And his main weapons were a whip and a net.

So yeah, the sheer flavor awesomeness of being an acid-breathing, cranky, raging, drumming S&M fiend may also have contributed to his success. Sadly, another party member brought him down.

@OP
I don't remember how many energy spells bards gain access to, but if you're just looking for fire-related flavor, have you considered Energy Substitution?

Once again, awesome concept makes lousy mechanics work. :)

As for the spells, bards get almost no energy spells, but the Sublime Chord options opened up a few from level four up. And of course there are always the wands and staves that can give a bard a lot of versatility if needed. I'm likely picking up a Runestaff of Fire asap.

[mikau013]

Once again, awesome concept makes lousy mechanics work. :)

Awesome concept and homebrew items, can't forget about those :)
Homebrew can really help making subpar choices up to par.

[Talionis]

Are you using Words of Creation (Book of Exalted Deeds pg 48). I think it doubles your damage.

[Gavinfoxx]

Have you read the Bard handbook and the Inspire Courage handbook in general?

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8284

[Tyger]

Are you using Words of Creation (Book of Exalted Deeds pg 48). I think it doubles your damage.

Nope, and you'll note in the OP that I am actually seeking to downgrade the power of my character, not up it. :smallbiggrin:


Have you read the Bard handbook and the Inspire Courage handbook in general?

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8284

Read, memorized, used and am now trying to back away. Nothing in those guides really speaks to the question though, as there is little to no reference to dragons or fire in them.

[Feralventas]

Energy Substitution gives you Fire damage, but fire spells on a bard list are hard to come by. Searing Invective is a Pathfinder spell, but if you can let your DM allow it, you basically scream and curse at people (intimidate check) and they burst into flame (failed Sense Motive).

Alternatively, the Lyric Thaumaterge PrC is fairly easy to get into and lets you start splicing Sorcerer spells into your spells known list while giving you more spells per day; however, at 5th level it grants you an ability that's more a boon to your Sonic damage spells rather than fire, so it might be better to use it as a 4level Dip to pick up Burning Hands, Searing Ray, Fireball and Overland Flight.

If you have some Power Points or can pick up a psionic item to grant them, and some spare skill points for Craft Alchemy, (and can set something on fire for giggles before running like hell) then there's the Pyrokineticist from Expanded Psionics; more of a fighter or combat-support class, but it's fire all day erry day for what it's worth; might also work as a few levels dip just for the weapon and hand afire abilities, and the Fire Whip.

Reserve feats will give you a Supernatural ability to launch bolts of fire at people and things for a d4 per spell level of the highest fire spell you haven't cast yet (possibly including plane ole' Summon Monster since that takes the Fire Subtype if you pick a fire elemental to summon.

Not sure how to make ya more of a dragon aside from the Draconic Heritage feats in Complete Arcane.