More arms to make zweihander look underpowered.

[Snowbluff]

Okay guys. Here is the thing. People are going around saying zweihanders are always better then TuesWedFri in 3.5. This is !unacceptable!

So I have this class I've been meaning to try out. The Revenant Blade. From the Player's Guide to Ebberon. At first glance this class looks like crud. Then you see the capstone, and that you get the feats back later, you realize this is definitely something that every TWF should be taking a look at.

So this is where you guys come in.

First! Which item gives you TWF feats?

Whats the best way fo getting extra arms and Multiweapon Fighting?

Is there an easy way of getting extra arms on an elf? I'm talking items, classes, items, anything. (I want another Double Scimmy).

Is there a Wildshape that WS Ranger (A natural lead into Revenant Blade) that would give extra arms?

Can someone link the an Ubercharger? Making a theoretical Ubercharger based on RB is one of my goals.

So the RB calls for a "Valenar Double Scimitar". I don't have the book it is from. Is it any different form the PHB Double Scimmy?

[Namfuak]

The double scimitar is 119 of the Eberron Campaign Setting.

Medium = 1d6/1d6, 18-20 x2 critical. Could be pretty cool with Vorpal, if you prepared improved critical for it (Revenants can take that).

EDIT: Apparently my reading comprehension is fading with age.

[Snowbluff]

The double scimitar is 119 of the Eberron Campaign Setting.

Medium = 1d6/1d6, 18-20 x2 critical. Could be pretty cool with Vorpal, if you prepared improved critical for it (Revenants can take that).

Oh okay... found it... >.>

Why does this thing exist? It seems identical to the regular Double Scimmy?

[Manateee]

I believe Girallon's Blessing may be permanencied, as outlined in Savage Species.

(This is presented as an expansion on the Permanency spell in SS, not a feature of GB or an inclusion of its spell entry, so I don't believe this is overwritten by Spell Compendium's omission of the detail.)

[OracleofSilence]

Well, the players handbook actually has a double sword, not a double scimitar. So its like a double sword but with double scimitar stats, rather then longsword stats.

And i guess its just for inclusiveness? Also i seem to recall their being a few feats that specifically give it benfits when you charge or something. I am not really sure.

Also, there is the Garillion Arms soulmeld. Not sure if it lets you carry weapons though.

[FMArthur]

If THF+TWF is all you want to base the character around, I really think you should just consider using a diopsid and then carrying on from there however you like instead of making it a dedicated late-blooming build choice out of it with Revenant Blade.

You are spending 5 levels and three feats to approximate what a diopsid is getting for 1 level adjustment and two feats. Diopsid's combination THF and TWF comes at a cost low enough that it doesn't dictate your build, happens with weapons a size category larger, comes online at ECL 2 and happens with flat-out stronger weapons to begin with (you'd be TWFing a large greatsword and a large bastard sword optimally).

Take Two-Weapon Fighting and Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting. Awesome, you're done. Your weapon style is powerfully established and you can do what you want with the character from there. Pursue Power Attack + Shock Trooper, use Barbarian for ACFs, be a ToB class, abuse sizing combinations with your diopsid features + Strongarm Bracers + Psychic Warrior's Expansion, etc etc. Just pick something and get awesome features to have fun with in addition to just enabling a weapon style.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Also, there is the Garillion Arms soulmeld. Not sure if it lets you carry weapons though.

No, it just states that it gives you claw attacks, and the fluff seems to support this, with the arms and hands being ghostly but the claws real.

[OracleofSilence]

I thought it was something like that.

[Big Fau]

The double scimitar is 119 of the Eberron Campaign Setting.

Medium = 1d6/1d6, 18-20 x2 critical. Could be pretty cool with Vorpal, if you prepared improved critical for it (Revenants can take that).

Improved Critical does not affect Vorpal's trigger. There's a reason people tell others not to use Vorpal.


Oh okay... found it... >.>

Why does this thing exist? It seems identical to the regular Double Scimmy?

It's a reprinted version of the Double Scimitar found in the A&EG, which is 3.0. The weapon hand't been reprinted until the ECS was released.

[kardar233]

The Ubercharger is here (http://web.archive.org/web/20080214233419/forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=401662). At least, that's the last version I've seen.

Getting more arms that are usable out-of-the-box is difficult. I believe Girallon's Blessing gives you usable arms, but I'm sure that the Girallon Arms soulmeld doesn't. The Thri-Kreen (lots of places, most recent Shining South) and Diopsid (Dragon Compendium) races have four arms. I don't know any other sources of usable arms.

Using the Arms of Man item from Savage Species, you can turn nearly any limb into a weapon hand. You can get tentacles from Form of Doom, that one Aberration feat from LoM (Deepspawn?) and a few other sources.

[Loki_42]

The double scimitar is 119 of the Eberron Campaign Setting.

Medium = 1d6/1d6, 18-20 x2 critical. Could be pretty cool with Vorpal, if you prepared improved critical for it (Revenants can take that).

Hate to burst your bubble, but by raw Vorpal only keys off of a natural 20, not just any critical hit.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Making a theoretical Ubercharger based on RB is one of my goals
How about using, instead, natural weapons in conjunction with this feat?
http://dndtools.eu/feats/sword-and-fist-a-guidebook-to-monks-and-fighters--50/power-lunge--2214/
Possible build:
Half-dragon raptoran
Barb1(pounce)/FighterX/Stormtalon2 (can be done better, but it gives the idea)
Get Improved Rapidstrike twice (both claws and talons)
Take Imp.Unarmed Strike
Take Snap Kick
Take 2 weapon fighting
Wear a necklace of natural weapons (with the Valorous enhancement)

Result:
Pouncing Dive Attack
4 primary + 3 secondary +1 snap kick unarmed strike (each deals STRx2)
6 claws (each deals strx2 and is doubled because it's piercing)
6 talons (Just like the claws)
1 Bite (as the above)

All these attacks do double damage from Valorous (those that already did double are instead tripled)

You can freely add tentacles/tails/whatever to further increase number of attacks

[Snowbluff]

If THF+TWF is all you want to base the character around, I really think you should just consider using a diopsid and then carrying on from there however you like instead of making it a dedicated late-blooming build choice out of it with Revenant Blade.

You are spending 5 levels and three feats to approximate what a diopsid is getting for 1 level adjustment and two feats. Diopsid's combination THF and TWF comes at a cost low enough that it doesn't dictate your build, happens with weapons a size category larger, comes online at ECL 2 and happens with flat-out stronger weapons to begin with (you'd be TWFing a large greatsword and a large bastard sword optimally).

Take Two-Weapon Fighting and Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting. Awesome, you're done. Your weapon style is powerfully established and you can do what you want with the character from there. Pursue Power Attack + Shock Trooper, use Barbarian for ACFs, be a ToB class, abuse sizing combinations with your diopsid features + Strongarm Bracers + Psychic Warrior's Expansion, etc etc. Just pick something and get awesome features to have fun with in addition to just enabling a weapon style.

This is actually VERY wrong. You get the feats back later, and your Double Scimmy Feats automatically affect your zweihander Falchion early on. So you are even roughly with a crummy fighter for the five levels, then you blossom into a TWF God of war. In other news, you can take all of the prereqs at level one, with flaws, and last time I checked, Higher Level feats >>>> most Level One feats. You can use your RB levels for early Imp Crit, too, which normally is taken at level 9.

EDIT: Also, I can already dual wield zwei with RB, but then I get 2 more with Girallon's blessing. Diopsid would only get one. Now If i could be an elf and a diopsid/thrikeen... :smallbiggrin:

EDITEDIT: Girallon's Blessing does not allow more awesome scimmies.

EDITEDITEDIT: Gloves of Man will make you have a nice tome with Girallon arms form the Chakra Bind and Spell.

[Zombulian]

Arms of Plenty from Lords of Madness turned into a wand?

[Snowbluff]

Arms of Plenty from Lords of Madness turned into a wand?

Good idea. I was also thinking about starting with Wild Shape Ranger, and Aberration Wildshape into Choker for Quickness. Extra Standard Action is Extra Standard Action.

LoM is something I am looking through lately. It has some nice synergy with my Gloves of Man from Savage Species (tentacles = HANDS! >:D)

[kardar233]

The Choker's Quickness is a (Su) ability, so you won't usually be able to get it from Wildshaping. However, Savage Species comes to the rescue again with the Assume Supernatural Ability feat.

[Snowbluff]

The Choker's Quickness is a (Su) ability, so you won't usually be able to get it from Wildshaping. However, Savage Species comes to the rescue again with the Assume Supernatural Ability feat.

Thanks! This is why I made a thread on this! <3 :smallbiggrin:

2 feats is good for another standard, then I am taking Travel Devotion for another move action... Learn Time Stands Still ( Eternal Blade? The prereqs share alot with RB) and a Pounce for 3 Full Round Attacks with movement. Should Work.

Now, I got to find an easy way to qualify for Multiweapon Fighting, because fighting with all of those extra hands will be painful. It's not necessary though.

[kardar233]

Take a Monk dip for Perfect Multiweapon fighting, or if you can pump Dex to 25 without problems, use Dragonwrought Kobold for the same result.


~EDIT~ Oh, and if you use Battle Jump (UE), Pounce and some Jump optimization you can make as many Full Attacks as you can Jump for.

[Snowbluff]

Take a Monk dip for Perfect Multiweapon fighting, or if you can pump Dex to 25 without problems, use Dragonwrought Kobold for the same result.


~EDIT~ Oh, and if you use Battle Jump (UE), Pounce and some Jump optimization you can make as many Full Attacks as you can Jump for.

Can I get the sources for these? Which book is UE?

[Dusk Eclipse]

IIRC Perfect multiweapon fighting is an Epic feat which is in the Epic level handbook and probably in the SRD

Dragonwrought Kobold is used to get them before epic as per the rules for True Dragons ( a huge can of wyrms, I don't wish to start that debate here again, so if you want specifics, feel free to PM). And it is from Races of the Dragon.

Martial Monk is a variant in some Dragon MAgazine which allows you to get Fighter Bonus feats with the monk ones, by one reading the clase for ignoring pre-requisites still applies to such feats.

UE is Unaproachable East a late 3.0 Forgotten realm sourcebook, if you want to know the shenanigans that battle jump enables I suggest you google Endaire's Hood guide.

[Zombulian]

Unapproachable East. Also do you know of the Monk hack that was brought up?

Edit: Swordsage'd

[Snowbluff]

IIRC Perfect multiweapon fighting is an Epic feat which is in the Epic level handbook and probably in the SRD

Dragonwrought Kobold is used to get them before epic as per the rules for True Dragons ( a huge can of wyrms, I don't wish to start that debate here again, so if you want specifics, feel free to PM). And it is from Races of the Dragon.

Martial Monk is a variant in some Dragon MAgazine which allows you to get Fighter Bonus feats with the monk ones, by one reading the clase for ignoring pre-requisites still applies to such feats.

UE is Unaproachable East a late 3.0 Forgotten realm sourcebook, if you want to know the shenanigans that battle jump enables I suggest you google Endaire's Hood guide.

Looking at Perfect MWF, it says it replaces TWF. Is this retroactive, change with my hands, or do I have to take TWF. MWF still gives the benefits of TWF it seems...