How does Wild Shape work?

[Venger]

All right, so, I'm looking to go shapeshifter 1/ master of many forms 4 for my last 5 levels and I need a little clarification on how wild shape works.

As far as I know, the rules have been updated so that wild shape is keyed off of alternate form now instead of polymorph as it used to be.


Alternate Form
The creature loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature).

The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form.

The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form.

What are "extraordinary special attacks" ? what separates an ex special attack from an ex ability of the creature that's not an "attack" ? if I was just doing animals, this wouldn't be a problem, but MoMF gives me humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, and fey, and some of those have ex qualities that I don't know if they qualify for "attacks" or not.

is there any way of distinguishing these things?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A given special ability (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/specialAbilities.htm) is always Ex, Su, or Sp. If it's not detailed in the creature's text, then you can follow the above link or check the back of any of the various Monster Manuals to find out what that ability is considered by default. To know if it's a special attack or a special quality, just check which line it's listed on in the creature's stat block.

For example, if you turn into a Medusa you would get the Poison (Ex) special attack, but not the Petrifying Gaze (Su) special attack nor the Darkvision (Ex) special quality.

[Venger]

A given special ability (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/specialAbilities.htm) is always Ex, Su, or Sp. If it's not detailed in the creature's text, then you can follow the above link or check the back of any of the various Monster Manuals to find out what that ability is considered by default. To know if it's a special attack or a special quality, just check which line it's listed on in the creature's stat block.

For example, if you turn into a Medusa you would get the Poison (Ex) special attack, but not the Petrifying Gaze (Su) special attack nor the Darkvision (Ex) special quality.

Okay, so it depends on where it falls in the statblock then. If it's in the "special attacks" column and is ex, then I get it, and what is there will largely be offensive stuff like poison rather than defensive like scent or fast healing, but it will vary from monster to monster?

[Draken]

Okay, so it depends on where it falls in the statblock then. If it's in the "special attacks" column and is ex, then I get it, and what is there will largely be offensive stuff like poison rather than defensive like scent or fast healing, but it will vary from monster to monster?

It will vary from monster to monster in what exactly are their special attacks, but some abilities are always special attacks and some are always special qualities. There is absolutely no creature with Fast Healing, Darkvision, damage reduction, etc as a special attack, for instance.

[Lord.Sorasen]

Okay, so it depends on where it falls in the statblock then. If it's in the "special attacks" column and is ex, then I get it, and what is there will largely be offensive stuff like poison rather than defensive like scent or fast healing, but it will vary from monster to monster?

Yes. Also MoMF will eventually gain access to Ex special qualities, if I remember correctly.

[Venger]

Yes. Also MoMF will eventually gain access to Ex special qualities, if I remember correctly.

Yes, it does, it gets that at level 7.

getting the ex abilities of a wild shape like a troll's regen/fast healing is pretty sexy. is it worth swapping out my last 3 levels of chameleon in exchange in order to get 7 lvls of MoMF?

all I'd lose from chameleon is:

rapid refocus (after declaring arcane&divine at the beginning of the day, it's not like I'd care anyway unless I can declare arcane&divine in the morning and then when I was finished with all my slots declare arcane again in the afternoon/evening. it's not possible with divine since I have to prepare new spells at sunrise, so unless I burned a pair of teleports to go a few hundred miles east and back, I wouldn't be able to do that.

mimic class feature 3/day: meh

aptitude focus 3/day: like I said above, if I can go arcane&divine and then arcane again, this is useful, otherwise, it's not

ability boon +6: this does smart, but I think it's outweighed by all the cool wildshapes.

6th level spells: this really hurts. it means I'll never be able to enjoy the likes of contingency, awaken undead, exploiting the fact that my chameleon noncasting is ex and works in an antimagic field, etc. are 6th level spells an appropriate sacrifice for any 8HD humanoid, giant, monstrous humanoid, fey, vermin, aberration, plant with all their ex powers for 8/hours a pop with 10 transformations a day? I'd be able to stay transformed more than all day and I'd take the hell out of natural spell, popping off spells as a mind flayer or leechwalker or dusk giant.

is this a good tradeoff for 6th level spells?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Definitely get MoMF 7 asap, and use the form of a War Troll (MM3). Everything it gets is Extraordinary, everything. Regeneration, Scent, Darkvision, Spell Resistance, even DR/Adamantine is Ex according to Rules Compendium.

[Gavinfoxx]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3479.0

Also, are you going Wild Shape Ranger or Druid?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3479.0

Also, are you going Wild Shape Ranger or Druid?

Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a)?

[Gavinfoxx]

Or Divine Minion, yea, I always forget that one...

[Venger]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3479.0

Also, are you going Wild Shape Ranger or Druid?

Shapeshifter (OA) actually. it's easy enough to qualify for and gives wild shape 3/day at the first level (all good saves, too)

[Gavinfoxx]

What do the rest of your classes and levels look like? That's a Prestige Class, right?

[mcv]

It will vary from monster to monster in what exactly are their special attacks, but some abilities are always special attacks and some are always special qualities. There is absolutely no creature with Fast Healing, Darkvision, damage reduction, etc as a special attack, for instance.

Wait, does all this mean that when my Druid turns into a wolf, he doesn't get Scent?

[Gavinfoxx]

Wait, does all this mean that when my Druid turns into a wolf, he doesn't get Scent?

Not unless he has cast Enhance Wild Shape (Spell Compendium) first, no.

[Venger]

Wait, does all this mean that when my Druid turns into a wolf, he doesn't get Scent?

without some way to get the ex special qualities, no



What do the rest of your classes and levels look like? That's a Prestige Class, right?
yep, it's a prc in oriental adventures.

silly me. I'm a human factotum 5/chameleon 4 (thus far) my planned progression is one of the following:

factotum 5/chameleon 10/assassin 1/mindbender 1/ human paragon 3
factotum 5/chameleon 10/shapeshifter1/MoMF4
factotum 5/chameleon 7/shapeshifter1/MoMF7

[mcv]

Not unless he has cast Enhance Wild Shape (Spell Compendium) first, no.

That sucks. That means we did a recent encounter wrong, where I tracked an invisible rogue by scent. It also means that as a squid, I couldn't have used Jet and Ink Cloud.

And I don't think we use the spell compendium (I certainly don't have it), so that makes a lot of my Wild Shapes a lot less useful.