[3.P] Dvati in PF?

[The Glyphstone]

The Dvati, everyone's favorite insanely complex race.

I might have a pair of new players joining my game in a week or two, each playing one half of a Dvati twin pair (an acceptable variant of their original idea to play one character with Multiple Personality Disorder).

What issues am I going to run into with the twins? Their lack of stat modifiers compared to any core races seems a fair trade to knock off the LA +1 (especially since they'll need that extra Hit Die), but what non-spellcaster races would be good ideas?

[Psyren]

Did you mean "non-spellcasting classes?"

Anyway, Rogue/Ninja seem to be good choices - A Dvati Rogue pair can flank with itself quite effectively, especially if you allow Opportunist to work for the pair. Their telepathy also allows them to stay in contact while sneaking (without metagaming) and they have Darkvision on top of all that.

How are you handling wealth? Normally a Dvati pair should get the same wealth as one PC - this can make outfitting them expensive, especially if they're also dual-wielding. But given that you have two players playing one Dvati, is each one getting the wealth of a full PC?

PF Soulknife is also nice choice, especially if the pair is only getting the wealth of one PC - it will make outfitting them much more affordable. But even if each is getting full wealth, Soulknife is still a nice option.

Finally, in spite of the lack of LA, I still think they could use a boost to be even with other PF races. The "cast together" restriction is a hefty drawback and they have a net zero stat bonus to boot (compare to Half-Giants in PF, who have 0 LA, net +2 and still kept Powerful Build), so I would give a boost to their Echo Attack/Pair Link abilities (or at least allow them to scale a bit.)

[kestrel404]

A Dvati played by seperate players is actually a significant underpowering for the race, so when converting to Pathfinder I'd give them some boosts:
+2 to a stat of their choice
Flanking bonus scales with character level (+3 to start, with an extra +1 per 4 character levels).
Because the twins are somewhat more independent than usual, they advance character classes independently. They still only have a single favored class between them, and they can only gain favored class bonuses once per level between them. They share the higher of the two hit dice between them, as well as sharing the higher skill pool, but they keep seperate track of BAB and saves and such. This allows for the original 'feel' of the Dvati while allowing the players to fill seperate niches within the party.
And either you allow them to pick up seperate feats, or else the two twins can act as both characters when using a teamwork feat. Since teamwork feats are generally more powerful, this could act as a decent balancer for having less control over their feats (since they have to agree on them).

As for non-casting classes that will do well for them, I'd suggest they choose a single 'power stat' and choose classes that share that stat is important. For example, both Monk and Gunslinger like high wisdom, while both Paladin and Ninja like high charisma, etc.

Alternately, if you don't want independent classes, then the Dvati could play as a Synthesist Summoner, with each twin having their own unique Fused Eidolon, evolved independently, with seperate HP totals. They would have to share a common pool of utility spells between them, but so long as they focused on group buff and pure utility, there should not be much reason for either to need to cast during combat.

Just some ideas.

[GodGoblin]

If its 2 players playing a pair of Dvati why dont you just use them as humans/Elves or a homebrewed race with some of the twin based rulings thrown in, like the suicide etc.

Call them Dvati twins and you wont have to worry about most of the problems that splitting a 1 player race into 2 players would bring. They can have full HP this way too :smallsmile:

As your converting them to PF some homebrew would be neccisary anyway so id say make a new Dvati race intended to be 2 seperate PCs.

[The Glyphstone]

The issue is that I already have 5 players, the module will really start to fall apart with a 7-person party, and they really like the idea of sharing a character, having asked to join together. Rather than choose one or the other to join or going with their 'original' suggestion of a split personality that gives control randomly every turn (:smallconfused::smalleek:), this lets them have their 'shared' character without expanding the party's capabilities much beyond what a 6-PC group would have.

And yeah, I meant 'non-spellcaster classes', not races.

[Psyren]

That sounds like they ARE splitting wealth (otherwise the party will be more capable than the module allows) so I reiterate my soulknife suggestion.

Alternatively, eschew Dvati and let them be a summoner - i.e. one is the summoner and one plays the eidolon.

[The Glyphstone]

That sounds like they ARE splitting wealth (otherwise the party will be more capable than the module allows) so I reiterate my soulknife suggestion.

Alternatively, eschew Dvati and let them be a summoner - i.e. one is the summoner and one plays the eidolon.

Huh, that's not a bad idea either, though it means one of them is basically relegated to observerhood in any non-combat situation. I'll throw it out there and see what happens.

[Psyren]

Huh, that's not a bad idea either, though it means one of them is basically relegated to observerhood in any non-combat situation. I'll throw it out there and see what happens.

Not necessarily, he could run around doing "cute animal" stuff. Or they could end up with a Shaggy and Scooby vibe, thus driving the plot :smalltongue:

[The Glyphstone]

Not necessarily, he could run around doing "cute animal" stuff. Or they could end up with a Shaggy and Scooby vibe, thus driving the plot :smalltongue:

The plot is Red Hand of Doom, incidentally, so that part's not an issue. Looking it up, Eidolons can actually talk, so it won't be complete inability to participate, though expression would be limited.

[kestrel404]

The plot is Red Hand of Doom, incidentally, so that part's not an issue. Looking it up, Eidolons can actually talk, so it won't be complete inability to participate, though expression would be limited.

Eidolons can also stay out all the time. I'd suggest giving the summoner the benefits of the 'Master Summoner' archetype (the ability to use their summoning power while their eidolon is out, mostly) without the downside (1/2 Eidolon progression) so that the character isn't just 'a reason for the eidolon to be there'.

[Cieyrin]

The plot is Red Hand of Doom, incidentally, so that part's not an issue. Looking it up, Eidolons can actually talk, so it won't be complete inability to participate, though expression would be limited.

I've actually seen a social Eidolon, since they have 6+Int skills and the Skilled Evolution, so you can throw on Sense Motive and Perception and act the role of the adviser. It wasn't the only thing it did, either, as it was something of a melee beast, so you can make a fairly functional character out of an Eidolon, if you really wish to. Think Fate/Stay Night and you have a pretty good basis for how a Summoner and Eidolon can work together and independently both in and out of combat.