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View Full Version : Dual Strike feat to make Two Weapon Fighting decent on Gishes/Paladins



LordotheMorning
2012-02-02, 03:49 AM
Two Blades as One: You have mastered the art of balancing power equally upon two weapons.

Prerequisites: Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Dual Strike (complete adv.)

Benefit:When fighting with two weapons (or a double weapon), any feat, spell, or class feature that applies to your main hand weapon or to a single attack you make with your main hand weapon also applies to your off hand when using the Dual Strike feat. This does not affect weapon abilities and enhancements that do not come from class features. Effects with variable durations or uses may be applied to this feat, but only once per ability expenditure, after which the effect will default to the main-hand weapon. For example, a Duskblade with the Arcane Channeling ability could use this feat while Channeling Chill touch, but it would only apply to his next dual strike. This dual strike, assuming it hits, would deliver one charge of the spell for each weapon (in this case, 2d6 damage and two fortitude saves vs strength damage) in addition to normal weapon damage. In following rounds Chill Touch would only be channeled onto his main-hand weapon because it is an effect that persists for longer than one attack.

Special: You may select this feat as a fighter bonus feat. This feat may be taken multiple times. Each time, you may use an additional weapon in tandem with this ability. This is only useful for characters that have the capacity to wield more than two weapons at once. Follow the normal rules for Dual Strike, but the penalty increases by an additional -2 for every weapon beyond the second.



Came up with this while building a Paladin/Incandescent Champion. This feat can be used to double your smiting or channeling, and finally gives classes like Duskblade or Paladin some synergy with two weapon fighting. I would strongly recommend ruling the Dual Strike be made not to require Improved Two Weapon Fighting because you'll never be using both in the same turn and it's pretty much just a pointless feat tax. If this allowance were made, obviously Two Blades as One would not require it either.

Thoughts? Balanced? I like the name, but I don't think it has the appropriate flavor for a fighter feat. Sounds more like a Bo9S feat.

moghue
2012-02-02, 05:30 AM
Using the plain srd paladin and using this may be a little overdone. Getting 2 smites out of every one while your tank friend whos a paladin next to you gets one and holds his shield. Unless this applies to shields,(with proper feats of course) then I love it.

Seharvepernfan
2012-02-02, 05:47 AM
Well, I would say that it's not overpowered, if only because of the ability score and feat requirements. I like it. TWFers could really use the love.

moghue
2012-02-02, 06:27 AM
Most appologies, I did not read the prereqs thoroughly. :smallfrown: This is a great idea! Twin weapon fighting with the stock rules does need love.

Seerow
2012-02-02, 10:11 AM
Using the plain srd paladin and using this may be a little overdone. Getting 2 smites out of every one while your tank friend whos a paladin next to you gets one and holds his shield. Unless this applies to shields,(with proper feats of course) then I love it.

The Sword and Boarder is going to be strictly weaker anyway, so I don't really see the problem with this.



Anyway, this seems like a good idea, but remember the reason that most Gishes don't use two weapon fighting is due to having too few feats to support it. I mean you're looking at a minimum 4 feats (TWF/ITWF/GTWF/Dual Strike), out of an average character's 7. Most gishes have to use some feats for prerequisites, and everyone wants power attack, plus metamagics and arcane strike are generally strictly better for a Gish.

So basically the main problem is "I need too many feats to be effective" and you're adding another feat to be effective. You may want to reconsider your approach.

Cieyrin
2012-02-02, 10:23 AM
The Sword and Boarder is going to be strictly weaker anyway, so I don't really see the problem with this.



Anyway, this seems like a good idea, but remember the reason that most Gishes don't use two weapon fighting is due to having too few feats to support it. I mean you're looking at a minimum 4 feats (TWF/ITWF/GTWF/Dual Strike), out of an average character's 7. Most gishes have to use some feats for prerequisites, and everyone wants power attack, plus metamagics and arcane strike are generally strictly better for a Gish.

So basically the main problem is "I need too many feats to be effective" and you're adding another feat to be effective. You may want to reconsider your approach.

Not to mention where the Paladin is getting the feats to pull this off. I mean, if it's a Paladin/Ranger, then I could see it working but, as-is, it's too heavy a chain for them to get at. I also don't know why you need to go through Dual Strike to smite with both. I'd just stick it just requiring Two Weapon Fighting, maybe put a stat or skill requirement on it (Knowledge(Arcana)? I know at least one set of Paladin substitution levels that gets it)?

LordotheMorning
2012-02-02, 07:42 PM
Anyway, this seems like a good idea, but remember the reason that most Gishes don't use two weapon fighting is due to having too few feats to support it. I mean you're looking at a minimum 4 feats (TWF/ITWF/GTWF/Dual Strike), out of an average character's 7. Most gishes have to use some feats for prerequisites, and everyone wants power attack, plus metamagics and arcane strike are generally strictly better for a Gish.

So basically the main problem is "I need too many feats to be effective" and you're adding another feat to be effective. You may want to reconsider your approach.

Yeah I'm not too happy about this either, but my DM was annoyingly adamant about it costing an additional feat. My original suggestion was to have dual strike do this from the off, because otherwise it's a pretty lame feat. It makes sense for this feat to require dual strike, because makes two attacks on a single attack roll, meaning it's only a small step to say effect can stack with both weapons BECAUSE they're on the same attack roll. So, thematically Dual Strike should be a prerequisite. The real problem is the prereqs for Dual Strike: TWF and ITWF. ITWF really shouldn't be a prereq for Dual Strike, because it doesn't synergize AT ALL with it, but it is. I can't get rid of the ITWF prereq without axing Dual Strike as well. I doubt my DM will approve nixing the ITWF prereq on Dual Strike either, but for the purposes of this homebrew we can say that Dual Strike requires Dex 15 and TWF only.

bobthe6th
2012-02-02, 09:01 PM
well... you could make a point to the DM about the over cost of TWF v.s THF(I recommend pointing out what you could do with a chargeadin)... then convince him/her to do some thing like this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199946) with the dual smite being a feat or AFC...