Mr. Lucky (Fortune's Friend, Luckstealer, Fatespinner)

[prufock]

Lately I've been looking at the Fortune's Friend and Luckstealer PrCs as well as the Luck feats lately. I know they are kind of lackluster, but I like the concept of the guy who gets by on his luck alone. I know there are other things I could do to agree with the fluff (Factotum comes to mind), but I want to deal with these two classes, using the reroll mechanic to best effect.

You can get into FF at level 6, Luckstealer at 7, and progress either divine or arcane casting.

Fortune's Friend
Pros: 2/5 casting, +3 to luck pool, rerolls don't eat your swift/immediate actions, class level as bonus to saves or attacks, good Ref, 6 skill points.
Cons: ONLY 2/5 casting, poor BAB, bad Fort/Will, d6 HD.

Luckstealer
Pros: 7/10 casting, weird debuff mechanic that eventually can affect all creatures in an area, luck pool depending on said debuff that gives you bonuses to checks, 4 skill points, good Will, capstone ability is 3/day save rerolls (or force opponent to reroll attack).
Cons: ONLY 7/10 casting, debuff grants save, d4 HD, lame Profession (Gambler) requirement, poor BAB and Fort/Ref saves.

The problems that are immediately clear are twofold, in my mind: 1) what base classes to enter with and 2) how much of each class is worth losing caster levels?

Cloistered Cleric: Luck and Destiny domains are useful, but you can only afford to lose 3 caster levels if you want 9th level spells. Charisma is a secondary stat, but give you additional Devotion feat options.
Bard: You can afford to lose 4 caster levels for your highest level spells (unfortunately those are only 6th level), plus you get the added goodies of the Bard class - morale bonuses (which can be boosted with feats and items), possibly the Bardic Knack ACF. Charisma synergy with Luckstealer, and some "luck"-type spells
Sorcerer: Charisma synergy, great spells, but you can only really afford to lose 2 caster levels. Familiar. Nothing else much of note.
Hexblade: An interesting option. You only need CL 14 to get your highest-level spells, but you only get up to 4th level spells anyway. Hexblades Curse has good synergy with the Luckstealer's curse mechanic, and the Dark Companion variant makes it even more so. Oddly, though, Hexblades don't get spells like Bestow Curse or Curse of the Impending Blades.

For classes that need more CLs, we could tack on Fatespinner in there as well, which has its own luck mechanic, though a weak one, in my opinion.

So just looking for suggestions. I've run searches, but these PrCs don't seem to have had much attention. Are there good base classes I've overlooked for this type of build?

[Eloel]

You could use Swordsage. Oh wait that was something else.
Wait a second..
Hmm..

Spellthief for some reason sounds very fitting to the concept at hand, but I'm not sure why I'm getting that vibe.

Sorry, nothing helpful here.

[Benly]

I think your "how much can I lose before I lose my highest-level spells" measure is a little misleading - eighth-level cleric spells still blow away anything a hexblade who spends fifteen levels in low-BAB PrCs will bring to the table.

[Zaq]

If you want to take FF and/or LS, you're simply not going to have a full caster level. You have to accept this and balance it with your group. (For example, if the rest of the party isn't very high-op, this is totally cool, but you might want to make sure that you're not the ONLY source of magic.) Of course, there's always accelerated casting classes to make the CL loss hurt a lot less . . . an Ur-Priest who steals the luck from your soul even as he steals spells from the gods is a fun character concept, though perhaps a little dark. (Getting the Luck domain will pretty much require Contemplative, but oh well, not like Contemplative is a bad class, and a dip doesn't hurt.) What level range are you looking at?

[hex0]

Spellthief for some reason sounds very fitting to the concept at hand, but I'm not sure why I'm getting that vibe.
.

TRICKSTER spellthief would work very well.

Also, Auspicion PRC from Faith and Pantheons (I think?). Fatemaker from Planar Handbook might be worth a look as well.

Even Human Paragon for the bonus feat, casting, stat boost....

[prufock]

I think your "how much can I lose before I lose my highest-level spells" measure is a little misleading - eighth-level cleric spells still blow away anything a hexblade who spends fifteen levels in low-BAB PrCs will bring to the table.
Absolutely agree. My point, in a sense, was that the Hexblade had less to lose from the CL drop than stronger casters. But obviously, they're less effective in general than the other options I suggested. I've seen Hex builds that worked well as debuffers, generally combined with Blackguard or Paladin of Tyranny, and thought that principle might apply here as well. Maybe not.


If you want to take FF and/or LS, you're simply not going to have a full caster level. You have to accept this and balance it with your group. (For example, if the rest of the party isn't very high-op, this is totally cool, but you might want to make sure that you're not the ONLY source of magic.) Of course, there's always accelerated casting classes to make the CL loss hurt a lot less . . . an Ur-Priest who steals the luck from your soul even as he steals spells from the gods is a fun character concept, though perhaps a little dark. (Getting the Luck domain will pretty much require Contemplative, but oh well, not like Contemplative is a bad class, and a dip doesn't hurt.) What level range are you looking at?
I'm prepared to accept a less-than-full CL, if it's worth the loss. What "worth the loss" means is pretty vague, I guess, since CLs usually trump everything else.
Building in a vacuum, not for a particular game, just because I got interested in the luck mechanics. I generally build to 20, but try to build so that it's viable at any level. My usual group is not really high-op (neither am I, for that matter, though I probably know a few tricks they don't).
Your accelerated caster idea is interesting though. A Bard/Sublime Chord could afford to lose a few CLs on the bard side, and 1 on the SC side to get to 9th. Ur-priest is an interesting idea; I often steer clear of evil alignment, but it isn't set in stone.


TRICKSTER spellthief would work very well.
I'm not really familiar with this ACF. What's the source?

Thanks for the ideas.

[Benly]

I'm not really familiar with this ACF. What's the source?

Dragon #353. You go down to 4 skills/level and lose a bunch of class skills (the "thiefy" ones, pretty much), lose trapfinding, and lose all but your first die of sneak attack progression. In exchange, you get bard spells known/spells per day, full CL for your spellthief levels, and use the combined bard and spellthief spell lists.

In general, what strikes me is that the two PrCs you want to focus on don't really give you a core gimmick. They enhance whatever it is your PC is doing, but you're going to need a core premise to build off of, and you'll need to get it in those first levels before you PrC out.

Your prestiges have poor BAB and low HD, so hexblade is pretty much not going to do it. Cleric or sorcerer will do fine, since in either case you're still a nearly-full caster with a great list. I would say that trickster spellthief is probably a better option than bard on the basis that the broader spell list will probably keep you going better than low-level bardic music would. (Also, if you can convince your DM that Master Spellthief applies to prestige classes, the spellthief's Steal Spells will scale decently and remain useful.)

[Cieyrin]

You also don't have to take the entire prestige class if you don't want to. Classing out of Luckstealer at 6th or earlier isn't a bad idea, as your luck pool is determined solely by your Charisma and you only need 3 luck points to turn into a luck reroll to power Luck feats. Curse of the Fatespurned is powered by Move actions, so a decent opener is use it twice and then cast spells and Curse on your turn to keep the luck flowing into you. That way, you only lose 1 CL and Curse of the Blackcloud and Fate's Proof aren't that great. Going into Fatespinner from there isn't a bad idea, either.

[hex0]

Trickster Spellthief 5/Fortune's Friend 4/Luckstealer 1/Fortune's Friend 1/Luckstealer 3 would work as a start then.