Legend of the five rings?

[BIGMamaSloth]

My friend gave me the 4th edition Legend of the five rings main book recently, and I gave it a quick skim through. before I delve deeper though, can some people help me out with what it is? stuff like what it's like to play, is it any good, what's the play style of it tend towards? and how does it differ from other systems? the only other systems I have played are a brief spell of 4th edition Dungeons and dragons when it came out, quite a lot of experience with 3.5 and a basic understanding of the FATE system.

Sorry if my questions vague, but just kind of general info would be nice.

also, I just checked the LR5 site, I saw something called emperor edition. and did I just receive the main book for an edition that is about to be replaced with a new one? never mind, that's for the card game.

[Terraoblivion]

Fundamentally it is a game striving to emulate the style of Japanese chanbara cinema with added fantasy in the form of both magic and monsters. Probably the most notable features is the lush, richly detailed setting and the depth of description of social norms, customs and the other mundane realities of life on one hand and how dangerous combat is on the other. This is especially a noteworthy combination given how the norms applying to samurai, what the players will usually play, tend to force them into battle quite often.

As such it differs greatly from D&D in making combat something to approach with due consideration and taking seriously and quite strongly encourages characters to struggle with the conflict between fear, pride and duty when it comes to fighting. However, it also doesn't have any of the openness or modern approaches to mechanics of FATE, falling pretty solidly into the post-WoD world of the 90s mechanically. It works and supports quite a range of different ways to interact with its setting, but it's not a game where you'll find the ability to do everything, you're a samurai or a monk and that's pretty much it.

In general, I'd say that it is mechanically quite solid, with some exceptions like most systems have, but with a truly excellent setting. It does lean more towards drama and character exploration than straight up combat, though, if that's important to you.

[STsinderman]

On the whole i found that it leant itself very well to both more politically orientated games and combat crawls, the only thing i would say is that it can take quite a long time to heal wounds.

[LibraryOgre]

So, last night, a couple I game with were having a friendly argument about gaming. The guy, my friend since high school, has a tendency to play characters who betray the party (though, oddly enough, never in a game I've played in). They were talking about one of his more infamous times, in L5R. His response to her bringing it up?

"That wasn't betrayal. You were a different clan!"

I agree with the "WoD design philosophy" bit... how you design your character does a lot to determine political affiliation and personality. If you are a Crab, your friends will be other Crabs. If you are a Lion, your friends will be other Lions. Other clans are not the enemy, and individuals may be friends... but the Clan ties are very important in playing L5R.

Now, while I do agree with the above statement of "This is not a game where you can do everything"... the interplay of Traits and Rings even makes some "classic" characters hard or more diffuse than you might like... it is also a game where you cannot really afford to be the single-note fighter with no social skills. You don't have to be great at them, but if you lack even the basic ability to interact with people, and, usually, one or more artistic skills, you're going to find yourself spending a lot of sessions sitting around doing nothing while everyone else has political adventures.

Likewise, however, it's rough being the courtier with no weapon skills. You can somewhat mitigate this with advantages (it is cheaper, in points, to have a Yojimbo NPC than it is to get highly competent with a weapon), but there's always the chance you'll get caught with your kimono off, as it were.

Ideally, every character will have at least 1 point in the following skills:
Etiquette
Defense
One weapon skill or Jiujutsu

Other skills are great... arts, skills to round you out, and a variety of specialties... but, truthfully, I cannot see any samurai (person of the samurai class, not necessarily warrior-type) reaching adulthood without at least one rank in each of these, out of basic self preservation.

[Terraoblivion]

Yeah, not to mention, if you play a pure fighter with no social skills, you're liable to find yourself in an endless series of duels and even if you're a Kakita chances are that will eventually result in your death. Especially if they come too frequently so you don't have time to become truly excellent at them.

However, I will say that it is possible to tell stories where clan ties are relatively de-emphasised, due to circumstances. I'm currently in a game where we're playing volunteers in the defense of Ryoko Owari during Iuchiban's first return and there isn't really much space for politicking against each other when the zombie hordes bear down on you. Similarly, if you play magistrates or imperial legionnaires there is plenty of room for reducing the emphasis on clan rivalries between the players if people prefer it that way.

[Bagelson]

Even the intro to skills mention that Etiquette, Defence, Investigation, Lore: Heraldry and Lore: Bushido are skills that most samurai should have. YMMV on the latter two; they're probably very useful in a very political campaign, less so if you'll be running around the Shadowlands. If you do have some sort of mandatory action sequences, Athletics is a good skill to have as well.

We're playing a quite action oriented campaign at the moment, but my rather combat focused Bushi has still had use of three social skills, two art skills, a craft skill, a smattering of lore skills and a language advantage. There's not many games out there where you can save the day by having a good score in Painting.

By "action oriented" I mean that we usually have one fight per session. I think the most we've had were three, where one was a duel and one was concluded even before rolling initiative. The rest of the time is spent doing social/political stuff, planning and faffing about in the wilderness.

[WalkingTarget]

"That wasn't betrayal. You were a different clan!"

Oh, kami, this.

I always had a blast in this while playing a super-honorable Akodo War-College Bushi with Can't Lie and no ranks in Sincerity (i.e. it's painfully obvious when he attempts to lie, although I don't remember ever having to do so, but he simultaneously can't make people believe him) in the same party with Scorpion Courtier who got no end of joy out of making a fool of me (without my character ever catching on!). It was some of the most fun I ever had roleplaying purely social stuff.

The times when it came down to the Scorpion's superior ranks in Sincerity and whatnot going head-to-head with my higher Glory and maxed out Honor rating were pretty epic.

[Chambers]

I'm playing in my first L5R campaign and we're using the 4e rules. The GM and two of the other players have played L5R since 1st edition, I believe, and the while the 3rd player has never played the RPG, he's played the CCG for years. My experience with L5R was limited to the Rokugan Campaign Setting that came out for D&D.

I really like the system. We've been playing for about 5 or 6 months and we've had some interesting character development. I still have my original character, though he's almost died a lot. I'm playing an Akodo Bushi...that is also a Kolat true believer. He's completely honorable (took the Paragon and Kensai alternate Lion school paths) and was raised from birth to be a member of the Kolat. Eventually he found out that sometimes the Kolat kills children in order to accomplish it's goals, and that's when he started a coup within the Kolat.

He decided that the Kolat needed to purge itself of it's evil members in order to bring the true light to the empire. So he wrote a document in Rokugani script, encoded with Kolat trigger words that bypass the Kolat brainwashing. He invested his soul into the document and it became a Nemuerani (removed his Great Destiny advantage); any Kolat (or other person) who read the document would have the new idea of a honorable Kolat implanted into their mind. They still had free will, but they now have an additional belief. In the case of my Scorpion ally, Kolat got added to his Loyalty List. I don't know if it's above or below his loyalty to the Scorpion, GM made that roll secret (as he should).

In short, I made a document that neurolinguistically hacks into the persons brain and plants an idea virus. :smallwink:

Currently he's got 3 Kolat Masters on his side, is going to have a showdown with Kage at some point, and has allied with the Scorpion to help them with the Scorpion Coup. It just started and he's leading a band of Kolat bushi and Scorpion saboteurs in the tunnels beneath Otusan Uchi.

---

As far as character mechanics go, he's not the best swordsfighter in the world. I probably took too many advantages and didn't focus on Traits until later in the game. I just recently became Insight Rank 4, while the Courtier & Shugenja have been Insight Rank 6 for a while. There's also a Matsu Bushi in the group, and even at Insight Rank 3 he kills pretty much everything.

I've discovered that while I'm average in normal combat, my two alternate school paths really help me excel in Iaijutsu duels. So it's nice to have some kind of niche that I'm the best at in the party.

[LibraryOgre]

...you made a Kolat Cyrinishad?

And, yes, I realize the reference to Snow Crash. I just wanted to make another.

[TheOOB]

One thing I love about L5R is how it manages to combined the several of the best traits of a Attribute and skill based system with those of a class and level based system, i.e. you have the freedom to purchase whatever skills/attributes/advantages you want allowing a ton of customization, but you still gain powerful and unique abilities from your school that give you a distinct roll in the group. The fact that your insight rank(and thus school rank) goes up indirectly from experience is another interesting and well thought out idea.

Anyways, as mentioned by others L5R is a system where you really cannot be a one trick pony, even a combat focused character cannot resort to drawing steel every time a problem arises because of how lethal L5R combat can be(an average starting character only has 38 wounds before they die, and starts sucking after 18, and average katana damage is around 12-16 wounds). For the same reason, a character who can't fight will have problems, because ultimately a samurai is a tool of war, and combat will break out at some point.

[Chambers]

...you made a Kolat Cyrinishad?

And, yes, I realize the reference to Snow Crash. I just wanted to make another.

Yeah...I had just read Snow Crash about two weeks before the game started. :smallsmile:

[jbr712]

L5R lends itself to a number of interesting campaign ideas. The setting is rife with political intrigue and the mechanics support combat and non-combat encounters rather well. There is a rich history which can greatly enhance the game if it's incorporated, but it's not necessary to do so for a great campaign.

At the moment I'm playing a Bayushi Bushi during the Clan War - my clan has been disbanded and I'm hiding my true identity. My character fills two niches, the font of knowledge, face, and the sneaky dude (nickname Sunikito). Because of heritage table rolls from Way of the Scorpion, I acquired a shadow brand during character creation - lending more credence to the idea that he is actually a ninja. In addition to those roles, the Scorpion also contributes as a general combatant; five ranks in kenjutsu and five agility makes him pretty capable.

I'm just going to put this out there: a character who has both "Sage" and "Crafty" advantages has been quite fun. It was also a great experience to play a Matsu for a while - he met an honorable death defending a village from a marauding army. There is a place for almost any type of character - key word being almost.

There is one thing I want to stress, as some people I've played with tend to forget this every now and then: The world is pretty well established; over 1000 years of tradition and history need to be observed and respected. As stated in the Book of Void in the core rule book (p. 285): "A samurai is not just a character, but a living embodiment of ancient tradition, who honors the past and protects the future."

[TheOOB]

As far as campaigns, an easy one is to make the characters Emerald Magistrates, which makes them responsible for upholding the law, collecting taxes, and fighting threats to the empire. It's a great way to get you and your players used to the setting because you can fit almost any type of adventure in that context.

Makes sure your players understand the style of campaign before you start though. Also remind your players that it is much much easier to make a bushi or shugenja who is a decent courtier than a courtier who is a decent bushi. Unless your campaign is almost entirely court focused, courtiers should only make up a small part of the team(in another words, in most games the number of bushi should be equal to or greater than the number of shugenja, which should be equal to or greater than the number of courtiers.)

The reason for this is that bushi's get armor, weapons, and combat techniques, all of which are very powerful in combat, a non bushi cannot compare to that with skills alone, and combat is deadly, and usually inevitable for a samurai. Shugenja make up for this with spells, which can help them in any situation, including combat. A courtier can never have the combat prowess of a bushi, and never have the power or versitility of a shugenja. Courtier abilities are very powerful, some of the most powerful abilities in the game, but they tend to be more narrow in scope which means that a courtier usually relies on their skills most of the time. Courtier abilities are awesome and game changing when they come into play, they just don't come into play as often as spells or attacking as a simple action.

[Kaun]

Currently he's got 3 Kolat Masters on his side,

I guess once you get the first one it would be all down hill from there.:smalleek: