Ultimate Magus: Worth it?

[Rossebay]

Just what the title asks. Does it actually help you out? Do you end up being a powerful character, or is it strictly underwhelming?

[Chronos]

If you choose two classes with the same key ability (such as wizard and beguiler), and if you use Practiced Spellcaster to put most of your advancement to one of them (probably wizard), and if you take advantage of the metamagic benefits, and if you throw in Versatile Spellcaster, it can be very good. On the other hand, if you just go Wiz/Sorc, without Practiced Spellcaster, it'll nerf you pretty bad.

[Rossebay]

If you choose two classes with the same key ability (such as wizard and beguiler), and if you use Practiced Spellcaster to put most of your advancement to one of them (probably wizard), and if you take advantage of the metamagic benefits, and if you throw in Versatile Spellcaster, it can be very good. On the other hand, if you just go Wiz/Sorc, without Practiced Spellcaster, it'll nerf you pretty bad.

So... God Wizard/Warmage (SAD, yeah, yeah) would be decent? Ignore the blasty school to get better spellcasting abilities, only to pick up a side of blasty?

In either case:

Is it better than Wizard?

[qcbtnsrm]

In either case:
Is it better than Wizard?
Even with Practiced Spellcaster, you are gong to end up two levels behind on the Wizard spellcasting. Not a deal breaker in my mind. But when everyone else has 9th level spells and you just got your 8th level spells... well you are paying a price for the PRC, even if only a relatively minor one. You are probably better off than a straight Wizard. But who plays Wizard to level 20 anymore?

It can be a good class. And isn't nearly the automatic trap that Mystic Theurge is. But it certainly isn't Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil. It is probably a bit weaker than Archmage. Basically what you get is delayed casting on the Wizard for about half casting in a spontaneous casting class (most frequently beguiler) and the ability to burn spontaneous slots to add metamagic to the wizard spells up to 8 times a day. If that interests you than it probably worth it.

[FMArthur]

Ultimate Magus is also just an inexpensive way to get your bonus metamagic feats back and better Caster Level after you subbed your first wizard bonus feat for Spontaneous Divination. You enter it single-classed and progress your wizard casting as normal, get a few CL boosts and pick up bonus metamagic feats at about the same ECL as a straight wizard would. You don't benefit from its main feature in Augmented Casting, so it is very mild compared to most good caster prestige classes, but +4 free CL is nice for boosting your spells and for offsetting Uncanny Forethought's -2 CL drawback. If you're avoiding taking badly overpowered prestige classes and are not specializing in anything in particular, it's a decent 'vanilla' option to take over regular wizard levels.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If done a certain way, yes it is better than Wizard. It is extremely easy to end up underwhelming, though.

You want two classes with the same spellcasting stat, which pretty much limits you to Beguiler (PH2) and Wizard. Warmage would be good, but it's Cha-based with Int-to-damage, and the Edge only applies to your Warmage spells so it's nearly worthless in the build. Beguiler gets several advantages, including skills, spell selection, and most importantly it's Int-SAD.

Ultimage Magus only advances one class at the 1st, 4th, and 7th class levels, which at first looks like your Wizard casting will end up behind by at least four levels for your career. However, note that the class that's advanced at those levels is whichever one has the lower caster level, or you get to pick if they're tied. Practiced Spellcaster: Beguiler is enough to make you only two Wizard levels behind for your career. You could go Beguiler 1/ Wizard 4/ UM 10, and only UM 7 won't go to Wizard, or you can make it Beguiler 2/ Wizard 3/ UM 10, and all ten UM will be put toward Wizard.

Use the Illumian race from Races of Destiny, with the Krau sigil. It works similar to Practiced Spellcaster, but adds +2 caster level to all your classes (no higher than your HD). With that and Practiced Spellcaster: Beguiler, you can go Beguiler 1/ Wizard 4/ UM 10, and apply 10/10 UM toward Wizard. That will leave you with 8th level Beguiler and 14th level Wizard spellcasting capability at level 15, not bad at all considering you can spend 4th level Beguiler slots to Quicken and Twin your Wizard spells.

It gets even better, though. Illumians are Humanoid (Human), so you can take the feat Able Learner from Races of Destiny and keep up your ranks in those awesome Beguiler class skills without paying the cross-class cost. Since the character is Int-SAD anyway, you should be getting plenty of skill points every level. Then there's the feat Versatile Spellcaster from Races of the Dragon, which allows you to spend two spontaneous spell slots of the same level to cast any spell you know of one level higher. You can spend Beguiler spell slots to spontaneously cast Wizard spells of up to 5th level, giving you access on the fly to any situational spell you may have picked up. It also enables you to gain early access of the next higher level of the Beguiler spell list, which means you'll probably have a spell for nearly any situation that may come up.

You'll need to use flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) for it to work out best, considering you'll want Able Learner, Versatile Spellcaster, and a metamagic feat at 1st level, and Practiced Spellcaster: Beguiler at 3rd. I'd recommend getting Obtain Familiar (CA) and Improved Familiar (DMG) for an Imp, Quasit, or Pseudodragon, and it can use your UMD ranks so give it a Wand of Web and some Tanglefoot Bags. You should definitely specialize with Wizard, preferably in Conjuration with Enchantment and Evocation prohibited. Your Beguiler casting will give you all the low-level Enchantments anyway, and you can still dip Mindbender after you max out UM. Get the Abrupt Jaunt ACF in PH2 for better survivability. I'd also recommend the Martial Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) variant from UA, to get Improved Initiative instead of Scribe Scroll.

Another trick is to go Spellthief 1/ Beguiler 1/ Wizard 3/ UM with the feat Master Spellthief from Complete Scoundrel. That adds together all your levels of spellcasting capability to determine your caster level in every class, so there's no need for Illumian or Practiced Spellcaster. At level 15 you'll have Beguiler 8 and Wizard 13 spellcasting ability, at a caster level of 26 including the extra +4 that UM gives. I'd recommend using Human for Able Learner and the extra skills, or Silverbrow Human from Dragon Magic to also use Practical Metamagic in Races of the Dragon.

There you have it: extremely good skills, extremely versatile use of spells, only one or two levels behind in Wizard, and at a (significantly) higher than normal caster level.

[gorfnab]

Ultimate Magus Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=431.0)
I'm kinda partial to the build: Wizard 5 (Spontaneous Divination ACF)/ Knight of the Weave 1/ Ultimate Magus 10/ X 4 (X being something full casting like Fatespinner, Archmage, Incantatrix)

[blazingshadow]

you could try asking for the alternate version of ultimate magus that allows you to use 2 spontaneous classes instead of prepared and spontaneous. this can offset the 2 level loss if you go kobold sorcerer for one of the classes IIRC

[gallagher]

i am partial to spellthief1/bard2/wizard3/ultimate magus 4/sublime chord10 with master spellthief

i am away from my books, but someone tell me if ST1/Bard2/Wiz3/UM4/SC3/IotSFV7 can work

[Chronos]

By RAW, you can advance Sublime Chord casting via other PrCs, yes. You could use more Ultimate Magus in that build to boost your Wizard some, too. Another common choice with Sublime Chord (though it might not be the best for this build) is Virtuoso, with the first level taken before your first SC level: This basically gives you back all the bard benefits you lost to take Sublime Chord, while still giving you the full SC casting.

[hex0]

Another trick is to go Spellthief 1/ Beguiler 1/ Wizard 3/ UM

Preferably Trickster Spellthief. Also you can cheapen this out further by going into a PRC that stacks with a previous spellcasting class for caster level like Nar Demonbinder or Sublime Chord.

[Nessa Ellenesse]

I wish I had seen this before I created my ultimate magus. Even with practiced spell caster I endured 10 levels of sucking in combat. Partly due to my mistakes. My wizard spells were almost all defensive and buffing with a handful of single target offensive spells. Thanks to practiced spellcaster my warmage spells were just as powerful, but lagged behind in spell levels.

Then there was the long string of ineffective PC and NPC clerics. That either thought buffing other players was boring and something the wizard should do or didn't have the innitive to do anything other than what the two fighters asked him to which was heal and buff them. This got my elf wizard killed. She still hasn't forgiven that cleric or the two fighters that monopolize his attention.
Then there's the two fighters that run into mêlée making AOE spells impossible.
Finally level 10 and I start getting somewhere. Around 11 or 12 the fighters leave. We are joined by a ranger and a monk. They both have evasion as does the rogue that started with the party. I pull out the AOEs.
Finally level 15 7th level wizard, 4th level warmage. After levels of telling me how underpowered my character was and what a mistake all the mistakes I had made, my DM is starting to call her a munchkin. She totally pwns in combat. Level 14 just before combat we lost all our weapons, armor, magic items and gear. With only the assistance of the cleric (flamestrike) and her own spells (storm of fire and ice and cacophic burst) she desemated the opposition.

Needless to say I don't think my will allow that prestige class again.

[Cosi]

Preferably Trickster Spellthief. Also you can cheapen this out further by going into a PRC that stacks with a previous spellcasting class for caster level like Nar Demonbinder or Sublime Chord.

If you're doing that, the best build is to go Wizard 3/Trickster Spellthief 1/Bard 1/Arcane Caster Dips 5/Sublime Chord 1/Ultimate Magus 9. That gives you a caster level that is very large, and lets you do broken things with holy word variants. It sucks super hard until you get to level 11 though.

The big question for Ultimate Magus is what level you're starting at and what level you intend to play to, because there are big power now for power later trade offs. If you're starting at a level where you can be a Sublime Chord, you should probably do that so you can kill people to death with your absurd caster level. If you're starting at 1st level, you should go Wizard/Beguiler or Spontaneous Divination Wizard depending on your DM's cheese tolerance.

Possible Builds:

Beguiler 1/Wizard 4/Ultimate Magus 10/Incantatrix 5 (suggested upthread, gives you a bunch of metamagic and makes you pretty good as a BFC/buff specialist, probably slightly worse than straight Wizard or about the same with Illumian)

Wizard 5/Ultimate Magus X [X is whatever number you need to get early 9ths]/Anything (requires Spontaneous Divination and favorable rulings about double progression, weird inversion of a lot of Char Op builds in that it's about as good as a normal character at 20th but way better in the meantime, lets you take levels that don't progress casting without being shafted)

Bard 1/Wizard 5/Incantatrix 4/Sublime Chord 1/Ultimate Magus 9 (IMHO the best Sublime Chord build out there, not quite as stupid as the CL stacker above but infinitely more playable overall, doesn't quite get dual 9ths but you get them on one side and IIRC 8ths on the other)

[Florian]

So... God Wizard/Warmage (SAD, yeah, yeah) would be decent? Ignore the blasty school to get better spellcasting abilities, only to pick up a side of blasty?

In either case:

Is it better than Wizard?

I´m not ging to give you a "technical" answer on this one.
It depends on your game and what exactly you play. If you do one of the "early entry" tricks, this PrC simply gives you staying power and the ability to do more with slots before falling back on reserve feats or items. If you´re into heavy dungeon crawling or even a Rappan Athuk-style mega dungeon, that is pure gold. OTOH, if you never run out of spell slots when past the early levels, its not worth it.

[CockroachTeaParty]

I played a wizard/warmage/ultimate magus through Red Hand of Doom, and had a blast.

My character wasn't optimized to the nines, but was built competently enough to be a solid contributor through that adventure and beyond. It's just a mechanically fun class, sacking spells for metamagic nonsense, etc.

At the lower levels, I very much favored my wizard casting, but by the time we got to the double digits, I started favoring metamagic'd orb spells from the war-game side. At any rate, I highly recommend it.

[Pluto!]

This is what happens when you theurge Necromancer Wiz with Dread Necro.

>_>