Best spells to Sculpt Spell?

[Brock Samson]

Hey all, just wondering what you thought the bestmost fun spells to use the Metamagic feat Sculpt Spell on were?

For your reference I'm a Beguilter 1/Wizard 4/Ultimate Magus 2 at the moment, so 3rd level wizard and 1st beguiler, though next level I get 4th level wizard spells, and the level after that 2nd level beguiler.

[Seth62]

when you can get disintegrate use that, or fireball as a AOE around you, to say F U to fighters and such charging you, or to escape from anything by turning it to ash/dust

[Mystify]

Its not really a great choice, but I do notice that a scultped burning hands can be a 40 ft cone as a level 2 spell, whilst a widened burneing hands is a 4th level spell that is a 30ft cone.

Similarly, many 1st level spells can get a significant size boost from it.

Fog spells are really fun to do in other shapes.

glitterdust goes from a 10ft burst to a huge area. you could throw around huge areas of glitterdust to blind enemies and hunt for invisible creatures

web also gets a huge size boost and more flexibility in where you deploy it

hypnotic pattern for another size boost

I'm sure there are places where dispel magic in a different shape is useful.

black tentacles would be a good one

[evil-frosty]

Legion of Sentinels is always fun. Its a third level spell for beguilers.

[Zaq]

It's not a Beguiler spell, but Scramble True Position is downright lulzy when sculpted. Not the most powerful spell, but it's at least humorous.

And yeah, turning Glitterdust into Glittercubes is of course one of the most time-honored choices.

[tyckspoon]

Anything which has a much smaller Area than it does Range, really. Most of the low-level controlling spells work really well with it, since they're largely constrained by the very small areas they hit.. Sculpted Grease is pretty nifty (and you also get to try and figure out what additional effects it has when you're creating 3d *volumes* of Grease instead of the default 2d *area* of Grease. That's.. a lot of grease.)

[navar100]

At high level play, Sculpted Prismatic Spray is juicy. My Sorcerer is so looking forward to that.

[hisnamehere]

That's.. a lot of grease.)

Hilarity, my friend.

[Ernir]

Sculpted Whirling Blade isn't particularly useful, but the idea amuses me endlessly.

Practically, for a Beguiler, Glittercubes. :smalltongue:

[Acanous]

Depending on your DM, Wall spells are really funny to Sculpt.

[Manateee]

Silence is amazing.

[Mystify]

Silence is amazing.

You just made me have a minor epiphany regarding how awesome that is.

[Acanous]

I suppose Vortex of Teeth could be sculpted for some shennanigans, too

[DegenPaladin]

Turning Antimagic field into a wall and still being able to cast orb spells through them :P

[gomipile]

I'm sure this has been answered somewhere, but I'm having trouble finding it. Do the "four 10-foot cubes" have to touch each other, or can they each be anywhere independently within the range of the spell?

[Brock Samson]

I don't believe the cubes have to touch each other.

Good suggestions so far guys- thanks!

[jindra34]

I'm sure this has been answered somewhere, but I'm having trouble finding it. Do the "four 10-foot cubes" have to touch each other, or can they each be anywhere independently within the range of the spell?

Shaped spells (those that refer to a volume of cubes or some such) don't have to be touching but the have to maintain at least 10' across in every dimension, so no the cubes don't have to touch cause the are already big enough.

[Mystify]

Shaped spells (those that refer to a volume of cubes or some such) don't have to be touching but the have to maintain at least 10' across in every dimension, so no the cubes don't have to touch cause the are already big enough.

It could combo in cool ways with the archmages mastery of shaping

[jindra34]

It could combo in cool ways with the archmages mastery of shaping

That enables you to what break each ten foot cube into 8 5 foot cubes?

[FMArthur]

Cloud of Bewilderment in the Spell Compendium is basically a 2nd-level version of Stinking Cloud but with a tiny area. If you have Sculpt Spell, Sculpted Cloud of Bewilderment is a better 3rd level spell than Stinking Cloud.

[Mystify]

That enables you to what break each ten foot cube into 8 5 foot cubes?
yes.
It effectively double the area, since you an put all of the 5 foot cubes on the bottom layer, and cover twice the area. And if those cubes don't even need to be next to each other, you can easily hit every enemy on the map with them, whilst avoiding all allies.

[navar100]

Can the cubes overlap in a square or two, accepted those in the overlap squares only suffer the spell once?

[dextercorvia]

Its not really a great choice, but I do notice that a scultped burning hands can be a 40 ft cone as a level 2 spell, whilst a widened burneing hands is a 4th level spell that is a 30ft cone.

Do note that Sculpt Spell doesn't increase the range, so this doesn't actually work.

Sculpted Wall of Smoke quadruples the area.

[Myou]

Silence is amazing.

Do emanations count as valid spells for sculpting though?
And if so, wouldn't they still have to be centered on you, being an emanation?

[Mystify]

Do emanations count as valid spells for sculpting though?
And if so, wouldn't they still have to be centered on you, being an emanation?
They are viable, since they are an area.
emanations don't have to be centered on you, it just means that they will persist for longer than a round. Bursts are instantanous, and spreads can flow around corners.

[Radar]

Turning Antimagic field into a wall and still being able to cast orb spells through them :P
That won't be of much use, since AMF allows spells to pass through. What is important, is that cover won't shield anyone from a sculpted AMF.

There is also a hilarious way to break Sculpt Spell with Incantatrix:
1. You can apply metamagic to spells already cast.
2. This can be done for spells cast by anyone (even your enemy).
The first one is nifty as is, the second one is downright hilarious - you get a magical can opener.

[Psyren]

Turning Antimagic field into a wall and still being able to cast orb spells through them :P

Uh, you can cast anything through an AMF wall, even fireball and magic missile. But more importantly, anything can be cast at you.

The sole use of a shaped AMF is that it keeps summons from getting near you, no matter how strong they are.

[ericgrau]

Anything with a large area, I'd think. Sleet storm is amazing with its 40' radius. It's like grease and solid fog cross-bred and then became a level lower, the only drawback being that it's hard to hit only foes in tight dungeons with such a gigantic spell. Until now. You basically blanket the entire battlefield except for your allies and a little space around them. Then they can pick off foes as they stumble out of the storm one by one.

You might also try cone of cold for the same reason, ridiculous area, though only if you tend to fight large numbers of foes. That could kind of be said of all area spells, it just applies more to cone of cold as it's pretty ho-hum against only 1 or 2 targets.

[Mystify]

Anything with a large area, I'd think. Sleet storm is amazing with its 40' radius. It's like grease and solid fog cross-bred and then became a level lower, the only drawback being that it's hard to hit only foes in tight dungeons with such a gigantic spell. Until now. You basically blanket the entire battlefield except for your allies and a little space around them. Then they can pick off foes as they stumble out of the storm one by one.

You might also try cone of cold for the same reason, ridiculous area, though only if you tend to fight large numbers of foes. That could kind of be said of all area spells, it just applies more to cone of cold as it's pretty ho-hum against only 1 or 2 targets.
Actually, it s much better with things with a small area, since it has a fixed size it sculpts it to. You use it with a large spell, and you cramp its area. You use it with a small spell, you get a large area.

[Sudain]

when you can get disintegrate use that, or fireball as a AOE around you, to say F U to fighters and such charging you, or to escape from anything by turning it to ash/dust

I don't think you can do that.


Disintegrate
Transmutation
Level: Destruction 7, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Ray
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes


Note: No area. Lightning bolt, which IS referenced by sculpt spell does have an area.


Lightning Bolt
Evocation [Electricity]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 120 ft.
Area: 120-ft. line
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

[Sudain]

Fog spells are really fun to do in other shapes.


I never found that to be useful in practice. Fog Cloud and Sculpt Spell are below.

Fog Cloud
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Drd 2, Sor/Wiz 2, Water 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft. level)
Effect: Fog spreads in 20-ft. radius, 20 ft. high
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Sculpt Spell Excrpit

...changing the area's shape to either a cylinder (10-foot radius, 30 feet high), a 40-foot cone, four 10-foot cubes, a ball (20-foot-radius spread), or a 120-foot line.

So the point of the fog is to block line of sight, grant concealment, or for a rider effect like sleet storm or stinking cloud. A wide area benefits it the most.

Shape analysis of solid fog.
If I change it to a cylinder, I cut my radius in half to gain 10 feet in height. Most of my battles take place on a wide open field with little terran modifications - so the radius change hurts. Even flying people just move around it. 1/5 stars

If I change it to a cone it's starts at me... I'm not supposed to be in close range, 60 feet is charge distance; 40 feet is just plain dangerous. In a dungeon when I may not have a choice; most of the expanded area will just be wasted. Door breaching is an exception. Though; I could even just leave it in a cloud form mostly the same effect. 2/5 stars

4 10 foot cubes. Highly situation so I can't give it a good review. If you have concealment and cover this shape becomes more useful; but it's still hard to use. Some spells, like grease and confusion benefit tremendously from it though. Only worth it if you are going out of your way for those spells. 3/5 stars

Ball form... looks suspiciously like the cloud's existing shape. Why am I burning a spell level to get the same shape...? 1/5 stars

Line form is interesting. I just created a sheet of smoke that anyone can do the hokey pokey through. Hurts casters and archers who need line of sight but the melee can just keep dancing through. I am mixed on this one. 3/5 stars.




web also gets a huge size boost and more flexibility in where you deploy it - I disagree. See thoughts above; more area is good. Also; you still have the same restriction about it needing to be anchored between two planes - sculpt spell does NOT change that.


hypnotic pattern for another size boost Yup! :)


I'm sure there are places where dispel magic in a different shape is useful. - yes, this seems excellent and a good use for the cubes.


black tentacles would be a good one - See thoughts above; more area is good.

[ericgrau]

Actually, it s much better with things with a small area, since it has a fixed size it sculpts it to. You use it with a large spell, and you cramp its area. You use it with a small spell, you get a large area.
Oops I was thinking shape spell.

Hmm, then glitterdust or grease for a much larger area, but that's already been said. Well invisibility sphere or magic circle against evil can get twice as good.

[Sudain]

You just made me have a minor epiphany regarding how awesome that is.

I am... confused as to how that's useful. Other than reducing the area so sounds that should get through(or the cube version to silence multiple sentries). Can you explain?

[Mystify]

I never found that to be useful in practice. Fog Cloud and Sculpt Spell are below.


Sculpt Spell Excrpit


So the point of the fog is to block line of sight, grant concealment, or for a rider effect like sleet storm or stinking cloud. A wide area benefits it the most.

Shape analysis of solid fog.
If I change it to a cylinder, I cut my radius in half to gain 10 feet in height. Most of my battles take place on a wide open field with little terran modifications - so the radius change hurts. Even flying people just move around it. 1/5 stars

If I change it to a cone it's starts at me... I'm not supposed to be in close range, 60 feet is charge distance; 40 feet is just plain dangerous. In a dungeon when I may not have a choice; most of the expanded area will just be wasted. Door breaching is an exception. Though; I could even just leave it in a cloud form mostly the same effect. 2/5 stars

4 10 foot cubes. Highly situation so I can't give it a good review. If you have concealment and cover this shape becomes more useful; but it's still hard to use. Some spells, like grease and confusion benefit tremendously from it though. Only worth it if you are going out of your way for those spells. 3/5 stars

Ball form... looks suspiciously like the cloud's existing shape. Why am I burning a spell level to get the same shape...? 1/5 stars


- I disagree. See thoughts above; more area is good. Also; you still have the same restriction about it needing to be anchored between two planes - sculpt spell does NOT change that.

Yup! :)

- yes, this seems excellent and a good use for the cubes.

- See thoughts above; more area is good.

Its not always about more area. Its more important to cover the right area.

[Mystify]

I am... confused as to how that's useful. Other than reducing the area so sounds that should get through(or the cube version to silence multiple sentries). Can you explain?
It doesn't reduce the area. But you could attack the cone to yourself, and walk around, unsilenced yourself, but with a cone to throw over casters. You could do things like silence an entire 120 ft long cooridor. Or say you have some rafters over the grand hall. If you use a sphere centered on you, then the bottom of the effect will sweep through the room, and people will notice. Using a line you can make a path of silence to go along without disturbing anything else. The cube version can be used to silence a room with 4 entrances, since it blocks sound from going through it. You can stand against a wall, place the cubes around yourself, and create a pocket of sound to cast in, but nobody outside of it can hear you. You can place cubes strategically on a battlefield to create soft "no cast" zones, and hence more precisely guide casters to where you want them to go. You can more easily shape it into a "wall" to block an enemy favoring sonic attacks.
Combine it with archmages mastery of shaping, and you have amazing control over the sound in the area. Create a self contained silence bubble with a casting hole in the middle. place 5ft cubes over every door and window, place silence in the precise path the rogue wants to travel, etc.

[Sudain]

Its not always about more area. Its more important to cover the right area.

I agree. That's why in my spell load out I made sure to include spells with reduced area(for better in melee targeting). However in practice the ones that I used the most use were the ones that took up a large amount of space, making this feat good on paper but not in practice. Maybe the cubes are the most useful and i could have used those. I am looking at this from the perspective of a battlefield controller; not a blaster (which will certainly benefit from the different shapes). I also did limit myself to spells that had 'area' in the descriptor; not effect.

Maybe I am looking at this wrong; what would be an example of covering the right area?

[Sudain]

It doesn't reduce the area. But you could attack the cone to yourself, and walk around, unsilenced yourself, but with a cone to throw over casters. You could do things like silence an entire 120 ft long cooridor. Or say you have some rafters over the grand hall. If you use a sphere centered on you, then the bottom of the effect will sweep through the room, and people will notice. Using a line you can make a path of silence to go along without disturbing anything else. The cube version can be used to silence a room with 4 entrances, since it blocks sound from going through it. You can stand against a wall, place the cubes around yourself, and create a pocket of sound to cast in, but nobody outside of it can hear you. You can place cubes strategically on a battlefield to create soft "no cast" zones, and hence more precisely guide casters to where you want them to go. You can more easily shape it into a "wall" to block an enemy favoring sonic attacks.
Combine it with archmages mastery of shaping, and you have amazing control over the sound in the area. Create a self contained silence bubble with a casting hole in the middle. place 5ft cubes over every door and window, place silence in the precise path the rogue wants to travel, etc.

Okay, that is pretty darn clever. Thank you for sundering my feeble mind. :)

[ericgrau]

Its not always about more area. Its more important to cover the right area.

Repel wood or repel metal can become amazing to block off sections of a dungeon with no save. Or to shove multiple foes into a pit or other hazard with no save. Suddenly the druid goes from temporarily hindering a single foe with no save to "You three may not fight this encounter, no save, k thx." Heck, once you include metal rings and such at high levels you might disable all your foes except those with teleport or those with no treasure.

[Mystify]

I agree. That's why in my spell load out I made sure to include spells with reduced area(for better in melee targeting). However in practice the ones that I used the most use were the ones that took up a large amount of space, making this feat good on paper but not in practice. Maybe the cubes are the most useful and i could have used those. I am looking at this from the perspective of a battlefield controller; not a blaster (which will certainly benefit from the different shapes). I also did limit myself to spells that had 'area' in the descriptor; not effect.

Maybe I am looking at this wrong; what would be an example of covering the right area?

Being more selective so as to hit as many enemies as possible without getting freindly fire. Placeing effects such that they effect enemies but not allies. For instance, if you have a group of typical small and medium creatures, and the opponents are tall and large, or taller, persistant effects 10ft above the battlefeild are great. the party can run around below them, and the enemies have their heads in it. With a sphere, you can't take advantage of that unless you burst it in the air, and then you have a greatly reduced area of effect. With a line and flight, you can easily fire it over your allies heads. With cubes, placing them like that is easy. You can also leave 5ft wide gaps for party members to manuever around while a large creature won't fit. With battlefield control, it can be as much about not letting enemies move to where they want, and forcing them into tactically suboptimal places. The finer control you have over it, the more clever you can deploy it.
Yes, you can get a lot of that versatility just by having spells with a variety of shapes. That is definitely worthwhile. However, sometimes the best spells for the situation is not in the right shape.
Then there are also the simpler cases where the enemies are in a convenient line or cone shape, and another shape wouldn't fill it right.


Okay, that is pretty darn clever. Thank you for sundering my feeble mind. :)

Is not always about what the spell says it does so much as it is about what you can use it for.

Repel wood or repel metal can become amazing to block off sections of a dungeon with no save. Or to shove multiple foes into a pit or other hazard with no save. Suddenly the druid goes from temporarily hindering a single foe with no save to "You three may not fight this encounter, no save, k thx."
Excellent use.


Oh, In case people didn't notice:

The sphere in sculpt spell is a spread, not an burst. It makes the spell go around corners. Even if you are going from a 20ft sphere -> 20ft sphere, that difference can be very important, depending on circumstances.

Also, it doesn't say you choose the area upon preparation. A wizard with a sculpted spell can gain extra versatility by using it in whichever shape the situation demands.

[Sudain]

Oh, In case people didn't notice:

The sphere in sculpt spell is a spread, not an burst. It makes the spell go around corners. Even if you are going from a 20ft sphere -> 20ft sphere, that difference can be very important, depending on circumstances.


I did not understand that distinction; thank you. :) I like the argument on paper. I will have to try it out next time I build a battlefield controller to see how it plays in practice. Thank you for taking the time to outline the benefits.

[DeAnno]

The most dangerous use I've seen in play is with CL boosted Holy Word/Blasphemy/etc, both to catch more things in the area and to protect non-aligned party members.

[Venger]

I don't think you can do that.

I believe you are misinterpreting what he meant

he wasn't saying use sculpt spell to zap more than 1 creature, he was saying to use it to zap multiple units of nonliving matter (digging through rock, walls, floors, etc)


When used against an object, the ray simply disintegrates as much as one 10-foot cube of nonliving matter.

so instead of hitting 4 squares all bunched up, you can hit 4 squares all over the damn place (medium range) leading to great potential for hilarity.