Avenger multiclass? Is it seriously that easy?

[Yourshallowpal]

Hey, everyone. I was going through the PH2 and PH3 to build a character...

I noticed the Avenger Multiclass feat just gives you Oath of Emnity, without qualifiers. (Meaning, if I made a rogue that took this feat, I could use Oath of Emnity with my Rogue melee attacks?)

A HYBRID avenger, however, only gets Oath of Emnity only for his Avenger powers.

Has this been errata'd? Because otherwise, I'm seriously just going to take the avenger multiclass feat for practically any character I make, just for oath of emnity.

[Ashdate]

Keep in mind that the feat (like most multiclass feats) only let's you use the Oath 1/encounter (effectively two uses). The hybrid avenger can use it multiple times, as long as he uses Avenger powers.

I mean, it's still good, but you of course need to be using melee attacks, and if you're hitting something other than AC and party composition you might find Sneak of Shadows or Warrior of the Wild better.

[DeltaEmil]

Oath of Enmity would normally last until the end of the encounter, or until you kill the target, then you'd regain it.

Oath of Enmity gained through the multiclass feat Disciple of Divine Wrath only lasts until the end of your next turn.

[Yourshallowpal]

Ah. So, if I took "Warrior of the Wild," I wouldn't get to MARK my Quarry once per encounter (and do the extra damage until they die/something ends the mark), I'd just get to do the EXTRA DAMAGE once per encounter.

Darn.

[Ashdate]

Technically you could add the damage twice since the effect ends at the end of your NEXT turn (turn 1: Quarry, attack, turn 2: attack, lose quarry dice at the end), but basically you've got it.

When you consider some of the other feats available that boost your damage however, they're pretty stellar. Consider that with average rolls, the Warrior of the Wild feat will add about 14 damage over two attacks; with Weapon Focus you'd need to hit fourteen times to "match" that damage. Of course, this relies on you hitting twice, so just save it until conditions are in your favour (i.e. target is prone or taking an AC penalty).

Of course, also remember that under normal circumstances, you cannot take more than one multiclass feat!

[Dimers]

To add my $0.02 -- Divine Power has another avenger multiclass feat that lets you Oath one enemy without a time limit. Now that one is seriously tasty. There's nothing wrong with the PHB2 feat and it's got lower prereqs, but if you have the Wisdom anyway, the DP version is just better. The most effective build I've created myself, a striker/controller, has that feat at its heart.

EDIT: Whoops, they nerfed it. I hadn't checked since I got DDI. Now the DP version only lasts until you hit the target.

[Snowbody]

And obviously the benefit can be increased if you can get your teammates to help--e.g. have the warlord grant you extra attacks on the two turns the Oath is active. If you beat the Warlord in initiative:

Turn #1:
You: Minor, Oath enemy
You: Move: Whatever
You: Standard: Ready an action to take effect after the warlord grants you an extra attack

Warlord: grants you extra attack
Your readied action fires
Your initiative is moved to after the Warlord

Turn #2
Warlord: grants you extra attack
You: move/minor/standard

So you can easily get 4 attacks against your Oath target without even using an AP. (If your Warlord gives you bonuses on use of an AP, break out the Dailies!)

[Snowbody]

Okay, I was wrong:

Reset Initiative: After you resolve your readied action, move your place in the initiative order to directly before the creature or the event that triggered your readied action.

so the warlord can only grant you one extra attack, unless he uses an AP.

[Snowbody]

W = Warlord, or anyone else that can grant an extra attack more than once
A = somebody with MC avenger so OoE only lasts until EoNT


W is immediately ahead of A in initiative order (A delays if necesssary)
W's turn begins
W readies an action to grant A an extra attack once the oath is sworn.
A's turn begins.
A swears Oath.
W's readied action triggers; W grants A extra attack (with Oath benefit); W's position in initiative order would normally change to immediately before A but that's already the case so the initiative order does not change.
A takes rest of normal turn with benefit of Oath
Next round - W's turn begins
W grants A an extra attack (with Oath benefit)
A's turn begins
A takes normal turn with benefit of Oath
Oath expires

[Yakk]

Really, you could ready an action for "A makes an attack" instead of "swear's oath".

[Snowbody]

Right, as long as it's triggered by something that happens on A's turn.

[Grey Watcher]

The fluff on this seems really strange to me:

Standard Avenger: "By the Will of My God(dess), I shall strike thee down!"

Hybrid Avenger: "By the Will of My God(dess), I shall strike thee down, using these pre-approved abilities!"

Multiclass Avenger: "By the Will of My God(dess), I shall strike thee down in..." *checks watch* "twelve seconds or less!"

[Snowbody]

Eh, in my party the barbarian with the MC avenger feat fluffs it as he learned from some monks of $DIVINITY how to temporarily focus his mind and tap a tiny bit of divine power to improve his accuracy for a few seconds.

[Raimun]

I always imagined Oath of Enmity is kind of a determined state of mind, ie. "You will die by my sword.", as much part of the Avenger-fighting style as the actual techniques they use.

Those not fully devoted to the path of Avenger can't hold that state of mind for too long (MC) or can't apply that state of mind for two kinds of fighting styles. (Hybrid).

Also, Avenger powers look like some kind of a weird supernatural martial art to me.

Master Avenger: "Remember this, young padawan, raw muscle is not the key to the victory."

Student Avenger: "Ah, so I must focus on lightning fast strikes?"

MA: "You don't need to be that fast."

SA: "Use my brains, not brawn?"

MA: "That's not it."

SA: "Go the distance, then?"

MA: "Nope."

SA: "Umm... do some really cool moves?"

MA: "Fight more wisely!"

SA: "Huh?"

MA: "Be orbservant. Be intuitive. Think about a suitable proverb when you attack. Hit him in the nuts."

[Oracle_Hunter]

The fluff on this seems really strange to me:

Standard Avenger: "By the Will of My God(dess), I shall strike thee down!"

Hybrid Avenger: "By the Will of My God(dess), I shall strike thee down, using these pre-approved abilities!"

Multiclass Avenger: "By the Will of My God(dess), I shall strike thee down in..." *checks watch* "twelve seconds or less!"
It depends on the dedication of the Avenger.

A standard Avenger is wholly dedicated to his mission and, as a result, gets the full backing of his God.

A hybrid Avenger serves two masters, and as a result his God only gives him smiting when he is following the Avenger's path.

A multiclass Avenger is "trying out" this whole "holy slayer" deal but can hardly be said to have made it his life's work. He gets a brief boon that is similar to, but more ephemeral, than a traditional Oath.

...sorry, fluffing 4e mechanics has become a bit of a hobby for me :smalltongue:

[Grey Watcher]

It depends on the dedication of the Avenger.

A standard Avenger is wholly dedicated to his mission and, as a result, gets the full backing of his God.

A hybrid Avenger serves two masters, and as a result his God only gives him smiting when he is following the Avenger's path.

A multiclass Avenger is "trying out" this whole "holy slayer" deal but can hardly be said to have made it his life's work. He gets a brief boon that is similar to, but more ephemeral, than a traditional Oath.

...sorry, fluffing 4e mechanics has become a bit of a hobby for me :smalltongue:

Well, that DOES make much more sense than my version, but "Divine Justice in 12 seconds or your prayers back!" is just so much more fun!

[Duos Greanleef]

Well, that DOES make much more sense than my version, but "Divine Justice in 12 seconds or your prayers back!" is just so much more fun!

Well, the god of commerce in my next campaign world is going to be a salesperson now.

Additionally, may I quote you in my signature?

[Snowbody]

It's been done before...here's a 2E homebrew:
http://www.rmcomics.com/ak/gods.htm#Bikk

[Duos Greanleef]

*embarrassingly* Ah. Well. Erm.
...
*confidently* So it shall be done again!