Rage/Song of Courage?

[Rorrik]

I'm looking into making a barbarian bard, which sounds strange, but the backstory is fun. And I wanted to see what the general consensus was on raging and using song of courage at the same time. I'm thinking perform(oratory) which awakes the image of a raging beast of a man reciting words of valor and might while putting to good use his great cleave. The player's guide says no spell casting while raging, but does not include bardic skills. Also, when the song of courage says it can affect yourself, would that mean I can give myself that bonus while raging? I would like to know if the combination is generally acceptable.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Well, here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/barbarian.htm)'s what you can't do during a rage:


While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats.

Inspire Courage doesn't require any sort of skill check, concentration (unless I'm misreading the entry (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm)), or spellcasting. It's up to your DM whether it requires "patience" or "concentration" in a general sense, i.e. the dictionary definition of the word rather than a standard action every round. Even if it does, you can always sing for a round and then rage and you still get 5 rounds of IC.

[Medic!]

There's actually a variant based around the BardbarianTM in Unearthed Arcana called the Savage Bard. Worth a peek if you're piqued to your peak! (I'm now logging off out of shame for actually posting that awful joke)

[nyarlathotep]

Yeah I think based on everything I can see it's all cool.

[Saintheart]

There's actually a variant based around the BardbarianTM in Unearthed Arcana called the Savage Bard. Worth a peek if you're piqued to your peak! (I'm now logging off out of shame for actually posting that awful joke)

That would be this variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantSavageBard) which is part of the SRD. The Summon Nature's Ally line allows (IIRC) for some interesting Druid options, so it's worth a look.

Inspire Courage + Rage in the one character is perfectly fine -- if it wasn't, no party would have a separate bard and barbarian in them at all. The only drawback is that your inspire courage morale increase to saves won't stack with the barbarian's Will save boost while in rage, because they're both morale bonuses. But that's a minor setback.

[Amphetryon]

There's actually a variant based around the BardbarianTM in Unearthed Arcana called the Savage Bard. Worth a peek if you're piqued to your peak! (I'm now logging off out of shame for actually posting that awful joke)

It was rather piquant.

[Saintheart]

It was rather piquant.

Saying otherwise would be a picayune objection.

[DegenPaladin]

All I can think of when I hear Barbarian + Inspire Courage (Oratory)

In the halls of Valhalla, where the brave may love forever. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mraO8JZbSkg&feature=related)

[Namfuak]

Saying otherwise would be a picayune objection.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

[Cieyrin]

Inspire Courage doesn't require any sort of skill check, concentration (unless I'm misreading the entry (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm)), or spellcasting. It's up to your DM whether it requires "patience" or "concentration" in a general sense, i.e. the dictionary definition of the word rather than a standard action every round. Even if it does, you can always sing for a round and then rage and you still get 5 rounds of IC.

You are correct, Inspire Courage is not obstructed by Rage at all. You can't fascinate, inspire competence or either version of Suggestion but they're not exactly combat oriented, anyways.

[Rorrik]

All I can think of when I hear Barbarian + Inspire Courage (Oratory)

In the halls of Valhalla, where the brave may love forever. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mraO8JZbSkg&feature=related)

This is exactly what I'm thinking of. Thanks for the help all, seemed to me it should work but wasn't sure how the rule would be interpreted.

[Flickerdart]

Make sure to pick up Song of the White Raven (ToB) so that you can sing as a swift action, then rage and start crushing faces all in the first round of combat.

[Socratov]

ehm... yes... However, you will need concentration to keep up the song (or let it die out after 5 rounds), which you can't do while raging

[Cog]

ehm... yes... However, you will need concentration to keep up the song (or let it die out after 5 rounds), which you can't do while raging
If your combats tend to last long enough that this becomes an issue, Lingering Song is just a feat away.

[Cieyrin]

ehm... yes... However, you will need concentration to keep up the song (or let it die out after 5 rounds), which you can't do while raging


A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use song or poetics to inspire courage in his allies (including himself), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the bard sing. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the bard sing and for 5 rounds thereafter. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. At 8th level, and every six bard levels thereafter, this bonus increases by 1 (+2 at 8th, +3 at 14th, and +4 at 20th). Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability.


A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use his music or poetics to cause one or more creatures to become fascinated with him. Each creature to be fascinated must be within 90 feet, able to see and hear the bard, and able to pay attention to him. The bard must also be able to see the creature. The distraction of a nearby combat or other dangers prevents the ability from working. For every three levels a bard attains beyond 1st, he can target one additional creature with a single use of this ability.

To use the ability, a bard makes a Perform check. His check result is the DC for each affected creature’s Will save against the effect. If a creature’s saving throw succeeds, the bard cannot attempt to fascinate that creature again for 24 hours. If its saving throw fails, the creature sits quietly and listens to the song, taking no other actions, for as long as the bard continues to play and concentrate (up to a maximum of 1 round per bard level). While fascinated, a target takes a -4 penalty on skill checks made as reactions, such as Listen and Spot checks. Any potential threat requires the bard to make another Perform check and allows the creature a new saving throw against a DC equal to the new Perform check result.

Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a weapon, casting a spell, or aiming a ranged weapon at the target, automatically breaks the effect. Fascinate is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting ability.

Only some Bardic Music requires Concentration to maintain. Each entry of Bardic Music says which require concentration, which includes Fascinate and Inspire Competence. Inspire Courage has no such language that requires a bard to concentrate to maintain an Inspire Courage, meaning they keep singing as a free action till the bard stops. Raging does not stop you from being able to sing, as you don't have to use the Perform skill to activate it, you just need ranks in the skill to use it.