Nintendo Villains In Mortal Kombat

[ArlEammon]

This is a semi-serious discussion so I think it belongs here. Bowser, from the Mario Franchise, is put into Mortal Kombat, as is Ganon(Dorf). The idea of me making this thread, is to somehow make Bowser as a more "Lethal and serious" version of his old self. For example, if he ever gets cuts someone with his claws or breathes fire on them, they won't shrink and lose their fireball throwing ability, they will be cut to pieces or burnt to a crisp. Likewise, Ganon(dorf"'s stabbity stab with a pitch fork wouldn't make you go "Mph" and then fall down without any blood until a fairy sprinkles fairy dust on you and flies away.

As I was thinking of Koopa/Bowser's feats, I realized I have played mostly only the classic games, + Super Mario RPG. So I've got to ask about Bowser specifically, how powerful is he in relation to the Mortal Kombat characters? Is he around as powerful as Shao Kahn?

IN addition, assuming this is Uber Ganon, with all of his feats from all Legend Of Zelda games, how powerful would he be? Would he be around as powerful as Shinnok, Lord Onaga? Blaze even? In my opinion, Ganon's at least superior in power to Quan Chi.

Where exactly do these two, (and maybe other) villains fall in Mortal Kombat Lore, if they were in it?

[Oindoth]

Well, you can use Super Smash Bros. as a que for movesets, if you like.

[Dr.Epic]

What about King Dedede?:smalltongue:

[Raistlin1040]

If you want to make Bowser more threatening, you need to remove his ability to be knocked down, grabbed by the tail, and thrown fifty feet by an overweight plumber. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_-Ea7D9O30)

[Friv]

It's hard to say for certain without existing comparisons, but I would say that Bowser is (a) pretty weak compared to the top tier of Mortal Kombat characters, and (b) too inherently silly to really fit into the genre. Ultimately speaking, he is a goofy-looking lizard with a spiked shell who is vulnerable to fireballs and who tends to walk off cliffs. He's certainly large, and that'll give him an advantage, but he can't teleport, he's not that fast, he has no innate magic of his own (he's good at temporarily stealing stuff, but that's about it) and his attacks are generally slow and easily telegraphed. He's certainly not going to stand up to a god like Shao Khan.

Ganon, though, might tilt the opposite way. Under a strict LoZ reading, if you cannot get pure holy attacks he is completely invincible, able to reshape the landscape, teleport, bind people into crystals more or less on a whim, and launch attacks that are just devastating over long distances. At this point, you have to decide what qualifes as a holy attack - if Raiden's lightning qualifies, Raiden can take Ganon down. If not, I'm not sure anything in the MK setting has the necessary qualifications.

Now, if Ganon did appear in an MK plot, it would probably involve a tournament to gain control of the Triforce of Courage so that you could uncover the holy magic needed to stop Ganon before he conquered Earth and Outworld both, thereby giving the player access to a Deus Ex Machina that allowed them to fight Ganon on an even footing.

[DiscipleofBob]

Not knowing much about the MK universe mind you, I'd say that given the parameters Bowser would be a big, bad bruiser on Goro or the centaur-guy's level Think Giga Bowser but with more murder.

Ganondorf has enough magic to put himself in the running against characters like Shao Kahn, Shang Tsung, etc. He also has the advantage of only being able to be killed by the Master Sword or Light/Silver Arrow (at least in some incarnations) in a hand-to-hand tournament where that will never come into play.

[Mewtarthio]

Ganon was killing ancient guardian spirits back when he was still just a bandit king. Then he stole a third of the wish-granting essence of the deities that created his world. It was the third that had all the Power in it.

[Ursus the Grim]

Bowser's a firebreathing, heavily armored, diabolical kidnapper and thief with an army of fanatical servants. It all depends on how he's represented.

There are plenty of more serious re-imaginings of the Koopa King. (http://api.ning.com/files/Eo2i1uuaMPzkRkoGGAgLjIVyqVnBPqxbN3e94bAD0kbbXbO*fl JnAh0EBl0Uf9DD*worcUNvOUk2CLxKFXZbpmMJa4nuEgZR/1252858911927.jpg)

He would have a speed disadvantage, certainly, but I think moves like the Koopa Spin and the Koopa Claw could wreck if given enough weight.

I also think Ganon would be better represented in MK as Ganondorf, who has a more conventional but no less formidable form.

[ArlEammon]

Not knowing much about the MK universe mind you, I'd say that given the parameters Bowser would be a big, bad bruiser on Goro or the centaur-guy's level Think Giga Bowser but with more murder.

Ganondorf has enough magic to put himself in the running against characters like Shao Kahn, Shang Tsung, etc. He also has the advantage of only being able to be killed by the Master Sword or Light/Silver Arrow (at least in some incarnations) in a hand-to-hand tournament where that will never come into play.

We, we could assume that Ganondorf could be harmed by other's attacks, such as Raiden, Fu Jin, Shinnok, and the Demigods (I forgot their names). Maybe even uh, Quan Chi, since he's sort of an Anti-Preist of Shinnok.

[Psyren]

Ganondorf has enough magic to put himself in the running against characters like Shao Kahn, Shang Tsung, etc. He also has the advantage of only being able to be killed by the Master Sword or Light/Silver Arrow (at least in some incarnations) in a hand-to-hand tournament where that will never come into play.

You mean the same tournament that let Joker slap around Superman?

It's clear that the Elder Gods would turn off anyone's innate immunity or invulnerability for a scenario like that - otherwise it wouldn't really be Mortal Kombat.

[GoblinArchmage]

It's hard to say for certain without existing comparisons, but I would say that Bowser is (a) pretty weak compared to the top tier of Mortal Kombat characters, and (b) too inherently silly to really fit into the genre.

I have to disagree there. Mortal Kombat is an incredibly silly series, if you really think about it. Serious is the last word I would use to describe a universe where people tear each other apart with their bare hands, the body of one person contains more blood than a real world blue whale, and every single character speaks in an overdramatic way. That's what I love about Mortal Kombat. It's so over the top and hilarious.

Also, if I recall correctly, Bowser does teleport in Super Mario 64 in the second and third times Mario fights him.

[Dr.Epic]

If you want to make Bowser more threatening, you need to remove his ability to be knocked down, grabbed by the tail, and thrown fifty feet by an overweight plumber. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_-Ea7D9O30)

Give him a bean burrito. No one will want to be behind Bowser.:smallwink:

[Mewtarthio]

Give him a bean burrito. No one will want to be behind Bowser.:smallwink:

"A bean burrito? Sounds like that's got... vegetables in it! And you want me to eat it?! :smallfurious:"

[TheOtherSidhe]

Vegetable aversion is more Wart's thing, than Bowser.

Though Bowser's general power level is incredibly variable, depending on the game and his exact state. Sometimes he's pathetically weak, others get so ridiculous they're barely believable. To give a few examples:

Bowser's Inside Story (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjb9Kxb1TFI#t=55s) has him catching a huge iron ball and supporting for a while. Granted, the Mario Bros. help him throw it back, but I'm having difficulty thinking of a Mortal Kombat character that could even hold that thing in the first place.

Super Mario Galaxy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0nr2jQR3DA#t=3m35s) ends with Mario punching Bowser into the sun. A few minutes later (Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0nr2jQR3DA#t=5m27s)) we see that Bowser survives this, only for the star he's standing on to immediately supernova, creating a supermassive black hole that proceeds to devour the galaxy. The sequence of events that follows this gets confusing, suffice to say that a heroic sacrifice ends up creating a new galaxy somehow. Bowser still manages to show up after this.

Then we have stuff like New Super Mario Bros. where Bowser gets dunked in lava (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVVzKjwvYUM#t=5m35s) and ends up reduced to a skeleton animated by sheer hatred for Mario. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgNGjsglr9Y) Notice he's defeated by fireballs there. Like I said, Bowser can be extremely variable.

Ganondorf tends to be a little more consistent in that regard.

[GoblinArchmage]

Vegetable aversion is more Wart's thing, than Bowser.

Though Bowser's general power level is incredibly variable, depending on the game and his exact state. Sometimes he's pathetically weak, others get so ridiculous they're barely believable. To give a few examples:

Bowser's Inside Story (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjb9Kxb1TFI#t=55s) has him catching a huge iron ball and supporting for a while. Granted, the Mario Bros. help him throw it back, but I'm having difficulty thinking of a Mortal Kombat character that could even hold that thing in the first place.

Super Mario Galaxy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0nr2jQR3DA#t=3m35s) ends with Mario punching Bowser into the sun. A few minutes later (Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0nr2jQR3DA#t=5m27s)) we see that Bowser survives this, only for the star he's standing on to immediately supernova, creating a supermassive black hole that proceeds to devour the galaxy. The sequence of events that follows this gets confusing, suffice to say that a heroic sacrifice ends up creating a new galaxy somehow. Bowser still manages to show up after this.

Then we have stuff like New Super Mario Bros. where Bowser gets dunked in lava (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVVzKjwvYUM#t=5m35s) and ends up reduced to a skeleton animated by sheer hatred for Mario. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgNGjsglr9Y) Notice he's defeated by fireballs there. Like I said, Bowser can be extremely variable.

Ganondorf tends to be a little more consistent in that regard.

This is true. It also happens with how games characterize him. The main platformers typically portray him as a diabolical mastermind while some of the spinoffs make him out to be somewhat less threatening.

Ganon, on the other hand, like you said, is almost always an evil genius sorcerer.

Edit: ...who may or may not be humanoid.

[Mewtarthio]

This is true. It also happens with how games characterize him. The main platformers typically portray him as a diabolical mastermind while some of the spinoffs make him out to be somewhat less threatening.

Even the games that downplay Bowser's threat generally portray him as too stupid to be dangerous, rather than physically a pushover. If you drop the obvious outliers, like Bowser getting killed by lava in NSMB DS (as well as the high-end outliers, like Bowser reducing God Herself to a damsel in distress in Galaxy 2), he's quite a formidable opponent on average.

Ganon's on an entirely different tier, though.

[TheSummoner]

Bowser is nothing if not durable. We're talking about a guy whose survived explosions, bottomless pits, countless lava baths*, being crushed by castles, the end of the universe more or less unscathed.

*Yeah ok, ONE time it killed him for some reason when every other time it was a minor inconvenience at best.

Bowser isn't serious? That's because the Mario games themselves tend to not be very serious, it doesn't mean a more serious interpretation can't be done.

Watch from 2:25 until 3:00 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOCBfnRqXW0). Bowser is the sort of character whose answer to an eldritch abomination's army of clone minions is to slowly walk forward and smash his way through. The guy is a physical powerhouse built like a brick wall, what does he need speed or magic for?

Edit: No arguements about Ganon(dorf) outclassing him though.

[Chess435]

How about Ridley? :smalltongue:

[The Succubus]

What about King Dedede?:smalltongue:

Actually, I could really see Kirby in MK.....

Rayden stands on the left side of the arena, his body crackling with lightning. On the opposite side squats a small pink creature of indeterminate shape.

*whirrrrrrr.....NOM*

:smallfurious:KIRBY WINS!:smallfurious:

[GoblinArchmage]

Actually, I could really see Kirby in MK.....

Rayden stands on the left side of the arena, his body crackling with lightning. On the opposite side squats a small pink creature of indeterminate shape.

*whirrrrrrr.....NOM*

:smallfurious:KIRBY WINS!:smallfurious:

The reason that Kirby couldn't be in Mortal Kombat is this: what would happen if he were to swallow Shang Tsung?

[Friv]

I have to disagree there. Mortal Kombat is an incredibly silly series, if you really think about it. Serious is the last word I would use to describe a universe where people tear each other apart with their bare hands, the body of one person contains more blood than a real world blue whale, and every single character speaks in an overdramatic way. That's what I love about Mortal Kombat. It's so over the top and hilarious.

Hmm, there may be a semantic disagreement. In my mind, Mortal Kombat is a ridiculous setting, and it revels in its own ridiculousness, which makes it work. Bowser, on the other hand, is from a very cartoonish setting, which works because of its internally consistent cartoonishness. Ridiculous, over-the-top so-serious-its-not-serious-anymore is basically the exact opposite of that theme. Bowser in Mortal Kombat is like sticking Mickey Mouse into a Final Fantasy game; it's drastically out of theme and shouldn't function.

*cough*

So maybe it could, I don't know.


Also, if I recall correctly, Bowser does teleport in Super Mario 64 in the second and third times Mario fights him.

Does he? I only remember him jumping a lot.

[TheOtherSidhe]

The thing about both Bowser and Ganondorf is that both are already very lethal threats, even if Bowser is not particularly serious. I don't think they really need to made even more so for this thread.

Bowser's average (and I use the term loosely) stats put him at more than strong and durable enough to hang with higher tier Mortal Kombat characters, and the only thing that prevents him from turning opponents into a charred/bloody mess is the E rating of most Mario games. His intelligence is another thing that keeps him from being a serious threat, but physically the guy's a powerhouse.

Ganondorf is similarly affected by the kid friendly image of Nintendo, but that shouldn't be confused for weakness or a lack of seriousness. In Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf started by cutting off the Gorons' resources, essentially starving them until they gave him what he wanted. After he got the Triforce, he revived an ancient dragon and started feeding Gorons to it. He froze over the Zora's Domain, trapping most of the population in ice, after he killed their patron Deity. Killed the Deku Tree, too. At the end of the game he destroys a castle.
Wind Waker features such things as Ganondorf kidnapping several 10 year old girls, torturing a Sky Spirit, destroying an island, and cursing the world with eternal night.
Twilight Princess has Ganondorf survive a direct impalement, kill a Sage with a punch, and pretend to be a god in order to manipulate his pawns. He also ends up freezing Zora's domain a second time, and his fight with Midna destroyed Hyrule Castle, which if I recall correctly, is something Raiden had to kill himself to accomplish. Though Raiden might have been weakened there, I'm not sure.

So yeah, I think both would do very well in the Mortal Kombat universe. Bowser may not fit thematically, but Ganondorf possibly could.

[ArlEammon]

So yeah, I think both would do very well in the Mortal Kombat universe. Bowser may not fit thematically, but Ganondorf possibly could.

Just make Bowser a Mature rating type villain (by cutting up his enemies and biting their heads off with fatalities, etcetera) I think he'd fit thematically.

[Frozen_Feet]

Bowser is a giant, spiked, fire-breathing dragon-turtle thing. Just drop cartoonish antics of the source material, and that's a serious personal threat right there.

Ganondorf... the only thing that keeps him from bloodily eviscerating Link is rating of the game. To imagine what his attacks should be doing, instead think of what Link does to the various boss creatures of his games: he crushes, burns, throws, explodes, cuts, slashes, dismembers, impales and stabs them with extreme prejudice, and due to their inhuman and cartoonish nature, we often get to see this violence much more graphically (see: Koloktos battle, where Link first pulls apart its limbs with a whip, and when that ceases to work, dismembers it and then slices its heart with a giant sword!).

Now, Ganondorf is the King of Monsters. As the final challenge for Link, you can assume he'd be just as capable of all those feats, if not more.

[Tiki Snakes]

The reason we never see Ganondorf brutally murder anything much is that he does most of that off-screen, he only ever really gets to be on-screen after the chosen hero has assembled the various holy macguffins specifically designed to defeat him.

With those out of the picture it's a whole 'nother story.

[DiscipleofBob]

Bowser's average (and I use the term loosely) stats put him at more than strong and durable enough to hang with higher tier Mortal Kombat characters, and the only thing that prevents him from turning opponents into a charred/bloody mess is the E rating of most Mario games. His intelligence is another thing that keeps him from being a serious threat, but physically the guy's a powerhouse.

Bowser gets too much of a bad rep for being all muscle and no brains when he's really one of the more devious and intelligent villains in video games. To give the whole shpiel would go largely off-topic, since this is just about his physical prowess in a fighting game, but what other villain do you know who can plot and hatch kingdom or even world-changing plans and kidnap the monarch of a kingdom, usually get away with it before the start of whatever game he's in, and then simultaneously be on good enough terms with the very people he attacked to play with go-karts and board games the next week, and then the very next week he hatches another world-domination scheme.

An interesting mechanic for Ganondorf could be that his Down-Forward-Punch or whatever is a fireball that can be knocked back and forth with an attack (or a bug-catching net) until someone misses the timing. Also Ganondorf already has the animality down.

[TheOtherSidhe]

Maybe intelligence was the wrong word, but Bowser is often presented (in the RPGs, at least) as somewhat lacking in common sense. He's smart enough to lead armies and fight tactically, and has a lot of technical knowledge given all the machines and such he uses, but he sometimes misses basics like not breathing fire on bombs, or not accepting odd mushrooms from strangers. Lower Wisdom, I suppose.

There's an idea. I wonder what their various Fatalities could be? Bowser could rip people in half or use fire breath that leaves only their shoes, while Ganondorf could have that "grab face, blow it up" move from Smash Bros.

[Chess435]

There's an idea. I wonder what their various Fatalities could be? Bowser could rip people in half or use fire breath that leaves only their shoes, while Ganondorf could have that "grab face, blow it up" move from Smash Bros.

Their Final Smashes, full stop. :smallbiggrin:

[Ulysses WkAmil]

*chants* BOWSER BOWSER BOWSER
Or Wario. He's me favorite.

[TheSummoner]

Fatalities:

Bowser:

Breathes fire and reduces the enemy to ashes.
Crushes his enemy's head with his bare hands.
Does a flip and lands spikes down on top of his enemy.

Ganondorf:

Grabs his enemy with one hand, lifts him off the ground, and explodes his enemyy's head with magic.
A powerful blast of dark magic that reduces his enemy to a smear on the ground.
Turns into Ganon and devours his enemy.

[Drascin]

The reason that Kirby couldn't be in Mortal Kombat is this: what would happen if he were to swallow Shang Tsung?

The real reason is that Kirby is really kind of ridiculously hax. This is a guy who destroys Cthulhuesque personifications of the very essence of fear as an afterthought when he goes out to recover his cake. Who takes down clockwork gods because they were in the way. And he does it all with a smile and barely even realizing what he's doing.

I heard once a theory that Kirby is what the 40K Tyranids are running away from. I honestly would not find it too hard to believe :smalltongue:.

[The Durvin]

On level with powers? Sure. Bowser'd need a visual update to keep from looking ludicrious, but hey, I'm sure somebody on DeviantArt's got that done for you.

So basically, you're looking for a Mortal Kombat/Super Smash Bros game? I wish. There is, however, the Heihachi appearance in SSB, and the Tekken Vs. Street Fighter And Vice Versa, and Tekken is already crossed over with Soul Caliber (being made by the same people with a few of the same characters and all), so you could theoretically work out an expanded-universe Tekken/Soul Caliber/Smash Bros/Street Fighter/Marvel Vs. Capcom thing--and then there's the Marvel Vs. DC comics (as well as those companies' crossovers with Transformers, Godzilla, GI Joe, Aliens, Predator, Star Trek, and so on), which brings in DC Vs. MK, and then there's the Star Wars characters in Soul Caliber; Capcom's also crossed over with other Namco games already, as well as, um, that Japanese animation company I've forgotten the name of. Somebody must have crossed over with Dark Horse--DC, I think?--and Smash Bros has begun absorbing Sega characters...I don't mean to go off-topic or anything, but check that out, man! Now THAT's a game: Everybody Versus. (Or, I guess, Mugen Fighter.)


I heard once a theory that Kirby is what the 40K Tyranids are running away from. I honestly would not find it too hard to believe :smalltongue:.
I don't have anything to say to this, I just like it. I don't know how an adorable pink wad wound up the most powerful being in the Multiverse, but he routinely takes out things that are all I can think of that might be a challenge. Also, you want to picture something terrifying? Image the results of Kirby vs. a Xenomorph.

[MammonAzrael]

Bowser:

Does a flip and lands spikes down on top of his enemy.

Grabs the opponent by the shoulders and flips them over his head, slamming them against the spike on his shell. Impaled, the corpses remain stuck to his shell as he continues in further rounds. :smallbiggrin:


I don't have anything to say to this, I just like it. I don't know how an adorable pink wad wound up the most powerful being in the Multiverse, but he routinely takes out things that are all I can think of that might be a challenge. Also, you want to picture something terrifying? Image the results of Kirby vs. a Xenomorph.

Kirby with a tongue that has a second mouth that can swallow stuff? :smalleek: