PF- Need Help on a Nature-Themed Build

[NeoSeraphi]

So I'm building a level 3 barbarian for a PF/Dragonlance game that's coming up IRL. It's my first IRL game in a long time and I really don't want to screw it up. I want to play a nature-type barbarian, so I'm asking my DM to let me take Aspect of the Beast (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/aspect-of-the-beast) for some permanent claws, and asking if I can qualify by taking the Animal Fury (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo---rage-powers/animal-fury-ex) power. Still waiting to hear back on that.

So my question to everyone is, what else would you suggest to help a guy play a badass lycanthrope character? I'm not very familiar with Pathfinder, but most of the rage powers on the SRD seem...not helpful.

Is this do-able? Would I just be better off playing a PF ranger, since they get Aspect of the Beast anyway? Druid is off the table, so I'm not sure what to do here.

Edit: Info on the game:

Starting level: 3
Starting Gold: 500 gp
Stat Generation: 15 point buy
Acceptable Races: Human, Dwarf, Half-Elf, Half-Dwarf, Gnome, Halfling
Accepted but Discouraged Races: Elf, Half-Orc
Accepted Classes: Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger, Bard, Wizard, Cavalier
Banned Classes: Clerics, Paladins, Druids (Banned for setting reasons)
All other classes are on an ask and you might get it approved basis, though I'm pretty sure Oracle is banned for the same reason that the others are.

I'd like to start fighting like an animal when the game starts, because I have no idea how long it will be before we level up.

There are five other guys playing (I think) and one of them has already called fighter.

[Curious]

No need to take aspect of the beast, Lesser Beast Totem (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo---rage-powers/beast-totem-lesser-su) has got you covered there. You'll want to take the entire Beast Totem chain, actually, since they give you NA bonuses and Pounce. For archetypes, you'll want Invulnerable Rager (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo---barbarian-archetypes/invulnerable-rager) and Totem Warrior (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo---barbarian-archetypes/totem-warrior). Totem Warrior doesn't actually have any effect on your class, but it allows you to take more than one totem line of powers, so everyone needs it. The Dragon Totem (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo---rage-powers/dragon-totem-resilience-su) line is another good one, for even more DR and Energy Resistance.

EDIT: Also, if you really want more versatility without much loss in power, Wild Stalker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/wild-stalker) is basically a Ranger with all the barbarians class features tacked on.

[NeoSeraphi]

The problem with Lesser Beast Totem is that I can only rage for 10+Con mod rounds per day, and I don't expect to have very high Con since we're doing 15 point buy. And this is low level, when players fight hordes of low CR mooks instead of one CR appropriate enemy, so the fight won't be over in no time. I want to be able to cut people up really easily with claws/teeth, and I can't do that if I have to conserve my rage.

Hmmm...Wild Stalker is interesting. So I'm basically just a barbarian with lower hit points, no DR, and fewer rounds of rage, but I can track things and I have a single Favored Terrain and no FE?

Er...I don't know if that's such a good idea...:smallconfused:

Edit: Glancing back over it, it seems I lose my first Combat Style feat, and I don't get rage until 4th level, which means I would have absolutely no way to use natural attacks at level 3 as a Wild Stalker. So that's out. But thanks for the suggestion.

[Curious]

The problem with Lesser Beast Totem is that I can only rage for 10+Con mod rounds per day, and I don't expect to have very high Con since we're doing 15 point buy. And this is low level, when players fight hordes of low CR mooks instead of one CR appropriate enemy, so the fight won't be over in no time. I want to be able to cut people up really easily with claws/teeth, and I can't do that if I have to conserve my rage.

Hmmm...Wild Stalker is interesting. So I'm basically just a barbarian with lower hit points, no DR, and fewer rounds of rage, but I can track things and I have a single Favored Enemy/Terrain?

Er...I don't know if that's such a good idea...:smallconfused:

I think you need to read the rules on Rage again; you have a number of rounds per day you can rage equal to 2 + 2 x barbarian level + Con mod.

Still if you are starting at low levels, Aspect of the Beast may be useful. Just see if you can trade it out for something else later.

Wild Stalker gets:
Barbarian Rage.
8 Rage Powers.
Low Light Vision, and bonuses to Perception.
Uncanny Dodge.
Favored Terrains.
Endurance as a bonus feat.
4 Combat Bonus feats.
Woodland Stride.
Quarry.
Camouflage.
Evasion.
Improved Evasion.
HiPs.
Improved Quarry.
Master Hunter.

All on a chassis that includes an extra 2 skill ranks a level, and 4th level spells.

Hardly a downgrade.

[NeoSeraphi]

I think you need to read the rules on Rage again; you have a number of rounds per day you can rage equal to 2 + 2 x barbarian level + Con mod.

Still if you are starting at low levels, Aspect of the Beast may be useful. Just see if you can trade it out for something else later.

Oh, right. Then 8+Con mod rounds per day. Even worse.



Wild Stalker gets:
Barbarian Rage.
8 Rage Powers.
Low Light Vision, and bonuses to Perception.
Uncanny Dodge.
Favored Terrains.
Endurance as a bonus feat.
4 Combat Bonus feats.
Woodland Stride.
Quarry.
Camouflage.
Evasion.
Improved Evasion.
HiPs.
Improved Quarry.
Master Hunter.

All on a chassis that includes an extra 2 skill ranks a level, and 4th level spells.

Hardly a downgrade.

Right, but what would I do at 3rd level? I don't have my first combat style, which means I can't qualify for Aspect of the Beast, nor do I have my first level of rage, meaning I can't have Lesser Beast Totem. So I can't fight at all for a whole level.

[Curious]

Right, but what would I do at 3rd level? I don't have my first combat style, which means I can't qualify for Aspect of the Beast, nor do I have my first level of rage, meaning I can't have Lesser Beast Totem. So I can't fight at all for a whole level.

Just two-hand a sword and power attack. You were going to get power attack anyways (since natural weapons count as one-handed weapons for PA purposes), and two-handers don't need much in the way of feats.

[Edenbeast]

How about the Brutal Pugilist archetype in the APG? If you want to fight like a predator: grap hold of the prey, bring it down and tear it apart!
Doesn't give you claws though, but with a rage power like brawler you get improved unarmed, and animal fury gives you a bite attack.

[NeoSeraphi]

Just two-hand a sword and power attack. You were going to get power attack anyways (since natural weapons count as one-handed weapons for PA purposes), and two-handers don't need much in the way of feats.

But that's not what I want to do. I want to fight like a lycanthrope, with natural weapons only, at level 3. That's the whole point of my build.


How about the Brutal Pugilist archetype in the APG? If you want to fight like a predator: grap hold of the prey, bring it down and tear it apart!
Doesn't give you claws though, but with a rage power like brawler you get improved unarmed, and animal fury gives you a bite attack.

I would rather take the Invulnerable archetype for the incredible damage reduction, but you've got a pretty nice idea right there.

[Curious]

But that's not what I want to do. I want to fight like a lycanthrope, with natural weapons only, at level 3. That's the whole point of my build.

Well, take straight Barbarian then! I'm not telling you how you should do it, just how would be the most powerful in the long run. If you don't care about that, just grab all Barbarian levels and run with it.

[NeoSeraphi]

Well, take straight Barbarian then! I'm not telling you how you should do it, just how would be the most powerful in the long run. If you don't care about that, just grab all Barbarian levels and run with it.

Okay. Are there any feats from PF that would help me out here?

[Curious]

Okay. Are there any feats from PF that would help me out here?

Unfortunately, you picked up on the only one that gives natural weapons, Aspect of the Beast. You could, however, increase your rounds of rage a day by taking the Extra Rage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/extra-rage---final) feat, so you can make use of your natural weapons more often.

[RndmNumGen]

If being Nature-based is a higher priority than playing a barbarian, You could play a Half-Orc Ranger(Shapeshifter) with the Toothy alternate racial trait. If you take Aspect of the Beast for your Combat Style feat, then you will have 3 primary natural attacks, enough to take Multiattack at level 3. You don't actually get much from Ranger after 3rd level, so you can always switch over to Barbarian once you have those natural weapons.

[NeoSeraphi]

If being Nature-based is a higher priority than playing a barbarian, You could play a Half-Orc Ranger(Shapeshifter) with the Toothy alternate racial trait. If you take Aspect of the Beast for your Combat Style feat, then you will have 3 primary natural attacks, enough to take Multiattack at level 3. You don't actually get much from Ranger after 3rd level, so you can always switch over to Barbarian once you have those natural weapons.

Hey, that's perfect, thanks!

[Stone Heart]

....Totem Warrior (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo---barbarian-archetypes/totem-warrior). Totem Warrior doesn't actually have any effect on your class, but it allows you to take more than one totem line of powers, so everyone needs it. The Dragon Totem (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo---rage-powers/dragon-totem-resilience-su) line is another good one, for even more DR and Energy Resistance.


I'm sorry but where does it say that? I could not find anything to suggest that, and the fact that totem warrior does not give up anything suggests to me that they do not get any bonus, otherwise there would be no reason to play as a regular barbarian.

[Curious]

I'm sorry but where does it say that? I could not find anything to suggest that, and the fact that totem warrior does not give up anything suggests to me that they do not get any bonus, otherwise there would be no reason to play as a regular barbarian.

That's kind of the point; there is no reason to play a vanilla barbarian, or rather, the vanilla barbarian is a totem warrior.

A barbarian cannot select from more than one group of totem rage powers; for example, a barbarian who selects a beast totem rage power cannot later choose to gain any of the dragon totem rage powers (any rage power with “dragon totem” in its title), unless she has the totem warrior archetype.
The relevant text is contained inside the 'Rage Powers' section of the SRD.

[RndmNumGen]

Hey, that's perfect, thanks!

Addendum on that build: Unless you gain additional secondary natural attacks, or unless you are also wielding a manufactured weapon, you won't need Multiattack. Because both the bite and the two claws count as Primary natural attacks, you will make all of them at your highest BAB.

[Stone Heart]

That's kind of the point; there is no reason to play a vanilla barbarian, or rather, the vanilla barbarian is a totem warrior.

The relevant text is contained inside the 'Rage Powers' section of the SRD.

The SRD is not Paizo made, and on the PRD, in the book, and even on the SRD page about the totem warrior, it says nothing or even suggests that a totem warrior gets to take more than one totem line. The totem warrior takes nothing away and gives nothing, its just an archetype that suggests rage powers.

Actually, I just checked again to make sure that I did not miss something and the wording on totem warrior suggests that they too only get one totem.


The totem warrior is based entirely upon his totem rage powers. In addition to the totem powers themselves, the following rage powers complement the totem warrior archtype (depending on the totem chosen):

Bolded for emphasis. Not totems chosen, just totem.

[Curious]

-Snip-

I'm afraid you are wrong. Here's the exact same quote, from the PRD this time.

A barbarian cannot select from more than one group of totem rage powers; for example, a barbarian who selects a beast totem rage power (see the Advanced Player's Guide) cannot later choose to gain any of the dragon totem rage powers (any rage power with “dragon totem” in its title), unless she has the totem warrior archetype.
Emphasis mine.

Link: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/classArchetypes/barbarian.html

[Stone Heart]

Oh, my bad, I mixed up where it should have been. For the record I must say that is really dumb. Its an archetype that gives up nothing and gains something, so as you said there is no reason to play the vanilla barbarian.

[Cieyrin]

If being Nature-based is a higher priority than playing a barbarian, You could play a Half-Orc Ranger(Shapeshifter) with the Toothy alternate racial trait. If you take Aspect of the Beast for your Combat Style feat, then you will have 3 primary natural attacks, enough to take Multiattack at level 3. You don't actually get much from Ranger after 3rd level, so you can always switch over to Barbarian once you have those natural weapons.

You don't have to even go Shapeshifter, you can just choose the Natural Weapon combat style. Expanding on that, Eldritch Claws, Rending Claws, the Rending Fury tree, as well as Boar or Dragon style, can really get you going. You may also want to have a look at the Savage Warrior Fighter archetype, though you need a method of gaining natural weapons before it's useful to you.


Oh, my bad, I mixed up where it should have been. For the record I must say that is really dumb. Its an archetype that gives up nothing and gains something, so as you said there is no reason to play the vanilla barbarian.

To be fair, Totem Warrior didn't even have anything going for it till Ultimate Combat made it actually do something and even then, it was a strange restriction that you could only go up on Totem chain and being a Totem Warrior unlocks that restriction. Given higher level parts of the Totem trees are level-restricted, I don't even know why they even bothered creating the archetype, anyways.