looking for halfling druid advice

[hamiltond465]

1st)rogue1 bab 0, saves: 0,2,0 - ranged sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding
2nd)druid1 bab 0, saves: 2,2,2 - Animal Companion, Enhanced Link, Nature Sense, Spontaneous Casting, Wild Empathy - spells 0:3, 1:1
3rd)druid2 bab 1, saves: 3,2,3 - woodland stride - spells 0:4, 1:2
4th)rogue2 bab 2, saves: 3,3,3 - evasion
5th)druid3 bab 3, saves: 4,4,4 - trackless step +6+int skills - spells 0:4, 1:2, 2:1
6th)druid4 bab 4, saves: 5,4,5 - ressist nature's lure +6 int skills - spells 0:5, 1:3, 2:2
7th)rogue3 bab 5, saves: 6,4,6 - Ranged Sneak Attack +2d6, melee Sneak Attack +1d6, Thief's Luck
8th)druid5 bab 5, saves: 6,4,6 - Undersized Wild Shape 2x/day - spells 0:5, 1:3, 2:2 3:1
9th)druid6 bab 6/1, saves: 7,5,7 - Undersized Wild Shape 3x/day - spells 0:5, 1:3, 2:3 3:2
10th)rogue4 bab 7/2, saves: 7,6,7 - uncanny dodge
11th)druid7 bab 8/3, saves: 7,6,7 - Undersized Wild Shape 4x/day - spells 0:6, 1:4, 2:3 3:2 4:1
12th)druid8 bab 9/4, saves: 8,6,8 - Undersized Wild Shape(medium) - spells 0:6, 1:4, 2:3 3:3 4:2
13th)rogue5 bab 9/4, saves: 8,6,8 - Ranged Sneak Attack +3d6, melee Sneak Attack +2d6
14th)druid9 bab 9/4, saves: 8,7,8 - venom immunity - spells 0:6, 1:4, 2:4 3:3 4:2 5:1
15th)druid10 bab 10/5, saves: 9,7,9 - Undersized Wild Shape 5x/day - spells 0:6, 1:4, 2:4 3:3 4:3 5:2
16th)rogue6 bab 11/6/1, saves: 10,8,10 - trap sense +1
17th)druid11 bab 12/7/2, saves: 10,8,10 - Undersized Wild Shape(diminutive) - spells 0:6, 1:5, 2:4 3:4 4:3 5:2 6:1
18th)druid12 bab 13/8/3, saves: 11,9,11 - Undersized Wild Shape(plant) - spells 0:6, 1:5, 2:4 3:4 4:3 5:3 6:2
19th)rouge7 bab 14/9/4, saves: 11,9,11 - Ranged Sneak Attack +4d6, melee Sneak Attack +3d6
20th)druid13 bab 14/9/4, saves: 11,9,11 - camoflauge - spells 0:6, 1:5, 2:5 3:4 4:4 5:3 6:2 7:1

possible feats(undecided):
mounted combat
mounted archery
natural spell
spell focus conjuration
augment summoning
exalted companion (book of exalted deeds)
quick draw
core archery feats
metamagic feats?



http://marksworld.zeemer.com/files/Racial%20Substitution.html#20 druid sub levels
http://marksworld.zeemer.com/files/Racial%20Substitution.html#22 rogue sub levels

dm rules:

If your class/race combo has racial subsitution level, you take those levels.
If you provide me a pdf of the book involved, you can probably use it.
however: keep it simple stupid. We don't want to have to pull out three books an encounter.
no insane munchkinning
if your character takes a class level, you need a rp reason, or at least a natural progression from other classes, to take it.




So, about the character.
I feel the best way to go about this character is to fly around the battle field, throwing around rocks and buffs, and divebombing things that I flank


halfing druids are really good at mounted combat. I get a + 4 to all ride checks with it, it will always be within range of shared spell, and I can use it as a mount in smaller spaces because it'll only be a medium animal.
probable mount choice will be riding dog to start, then a giant owl or bat later on.
I'm really only picking up rouge levels for the sneak attack. With a decent ability in summoning it seems like it would be rather simple to pull SA off on a regular basis.

I hear alot about some raptor thing from Eborron. I can guarantee you I won't have access to it.

main questions I have:

(1) Is there a way to wildshape into small animals that will actually be better in combat than my basic halfling? looking at the monster manual, everything small stops being small at around 4hd at best.

(2)With reduced casting levels, is it worth getting the summon feats, or should I just focus on buffing?

(3)Thoughts on this vs a 10/10 build? a level 10 rouge would gain sniping mastery(see rogue sub levels)

(4)Can I pick locks while wildshaped?

(5)Sling is probably the best choice with the racial + 1 to attack and since it doesn't break druid laws, does manyshot work with slings?

(6)Is there a sweet rogue/druid prestige class somewhere?


Also, I'm not picking rogue because I have to do the trapy-locky stuff, so if you think there is a better class for it, feel free to get rid of rogue.

The Campaign doesn't start for a while, so I'm not really sure what the rest of the party is gonna be.

[gkathellar]

Picking up rouge levels is generally suboptimal, mascera is way better.

Rogue is also a bad call on a druid — your sneak attack damage isn't going to be significant enough to make up for what you could be doing with spells, your animal companion and Wild Shape instead.

1) In general, Wild Shape gets better as you get access to bigger creatures. Fleshraker is really the exception, with the potential to remain oddly relevant even at higher levels, but even that's medium.

2) See above.

3) Druid levels are better than Rogue levels, as a rule.

4) Yes. You might take circumstance penalties for not having hands, though.

5) +1 to attack is paltry, and in general making ranged attacks won't be as useful to you as casting spells or fighting in Wild Shape would be.

6) No.

[Manateee]

(1) Is there a way to wildshape into small animals that will actually be better in combat than my basic halfling? looking at the monster manual, everything small stops being small at around 4hd at best.
Animals basically get better as they get bigger. Something small, but venomous, with Venomfire could get scary. But that's a pretty crazy spell anyway.


(2)With reduced casting levels, is it worth getting the summon feats, or should I just focus on buffing?CR 9 monsters aren't scary at level 20. You don't even get spontaneous summoning. Drop that noise.


(3)Thoughts on this vs a 10/10 build? a level 10 rouge would gain sniping mastery(see rogue sub levels)The more Druid, the better.

(4)Can I pick locks while wildshaped?Sure. If your DM agrees you have the appendages for it.


(5)Sling is probably the best choice with the racial + 1 to attack and since it doesn't break druid laws, does manyshot work with slings?No.


(6)Is there a sweet rogue/druid prestige class somewhere?There's Daggerspell Shaper in Complete Adventurer. I've never really paid attention to it, so its sweetness could be questionable.



Also, I'm not picking rogue because I have to do the trapy-locky stuff, so if you think there is a better class for it, feel free to get rid of rogue.
How does Druid sound? :p
I'd ask the DM to just shift the skill list around, if Roguishness were my goal there.

[Godskook]

There's Daggerspell Shaper in Complete Adventurer. I've never really paid attention to it, so its sweetness could be questionable.

Its 9000 times better than taking more than 1 level of Rogue.

[gkathellar]

Its 9000 times better than taking more than 1 level of Rogue.

And significantly worse than taking straight levels of druid.

That said, if the OP is committed to druid/rogue, then Rogue 1/Druid 9/Daggerspell Shaper 10 is still quite strong.

[Godskook]

And significantly worse than taking straight levels of druid.

1.Not relevant to the topic, since the player in question is intensely set upon a Rogue hybrid.

2.You're still a full-caster with 9ths. The word 'significantly' isn't really applicable.

3.The ability to cast quickened spells without additional cost is fairly valuable, especially things like Heal and SNA(although you gotta actually prepare it for that).

[sonofzeal]

You might want to consider Scout instead of Rogue. You get Trapfinding, 8+int skills, and a pseudo-SneakAttack, which are the three main reasons to take Rogue in the first place. And more importantly, there's this feat (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Swift_Avenger). Scout1/Druid19 is quite effective, and qualifies for most of the options out there intended for Rogue/Druids.

[hamiltond465]

I should point out, I'm only 'intensly set' on a halfling druid. I don't mind dropping rogue for fighter or bard if that would be a better choice (probably not, but hey)
The question of whether a pure halfling druid is better or worse than a given multiclass is perfectly valid.

That said, the daggerspell shaper looks pretty incredible.

a 1 scout/9 druid/10 ds shaper plus the feat SonofZeal mentioned gets me:

18th level spell casting
far more useful wildshape (legendary hawk with +5 claws of wounding anyone?)(on the other hand, none of the elemental stuff a pure druid gets)
3d6 skirmish, 2ac, 3d6 sneak attack (or 6d6 skirmish 2 ac, if the DM rules that way)
saves of 8/12/13, BAB of 14/9/4

additional questions:

(1) I don't feel this was answered all that well, so any thought on more useful wildshapes? the dagger and armor magic transferring helps a ton, but they're still kinda weak.

(2) where is Zeal's feat from? dragon magazine issue 357?
If so, where could I get a copy of that?

(3) don't metal weapons (daggers) trip a druid's 'cannot use metal' quirk?

(4) I can use full attacks while on a moving mount right? I think so, since the movement counts as the mount's movement, but I didn't see anything on it in the Player's Hand Book

(5)more feat talk! Now that I have spellcasting levels to support it, will summoning be more useful? will quick-draw and throwing daggers be neato?


gonna edit my OP to reflect this later.

EDIT:
I noticed that I don't gain all that much from level 9/10 of DS shaper if I'm a ranged attacker(throwing daggers =D), so scout1/druid11/Shaper8 may be a better bet, or even 1scout/19druid if we can't think of a way to make wildshapes battle worthy

[sonofzeal]

(1) I don't feel this was answered all that well, so any thought on more useful wildshapes? the dagger and armor magic transferring helps a ton, but they're still kinda weak.
You just need a method of getting armor bonus in Wildshape. "Wild" armors work at higher levels, and a Wildling Clasp (Magic Item Compendium) is a lifesaver.


(2) where is Zeal's feat from? dragon magazine issue 357?
If so, where could I get a copy of that?
They aren't exactly in print, so... ebay? Or just show your DM that link?


(3) don't metal weapons (daggers) trip a druid's 'cannot use metal' quirk?
Druids are merely prohibited from metal armor. Yeah, it's weird. Studded Leather (5 lb of metal, comparing with plain Leather) is out, but a Spiked Chain (10 lb of metal) is fine.


(4) I can use full attacks while on a moving mount right? I think so, since the movement counts as the mount's movement, but I didn't see anything on it in the Player's Hand Book
Mounted combat is always pretty darn confusing, and some of the rules simply don't work as written. Consult your DM.


(5)more feat talk! Now that I have spellcasting levels to support it, will summoning be more useful? will quick-draw and throwing daggers be neato
Improved Skirmish (Complete Scoundrel) boosts your Skirmish significantly. Martial Study: Sudden Leap is great for triggering skirmish without blowing move actions. Summons are always great - "Ashbound" from ECS is one of my favorite Druid feats at low level, and still nice at higher levels.

[Godskook]

SoZeal's feat doesn't work with Daggerspell Shaper, since it requires SA, not Skirmish, so the options are either:

Scout 1/Druid 19 (With DM's approval of that feat)

Druid 20

Rogue 1/Druid 9/Daggerspell Shaper 10

[Manateee]

(1) I don't feel this was answered all that well, so any thought on more useful wildshapes? the dagger and armor magic transferring helps a ton, but they're still kinda weak.
That's because the Small Wild Shapes are generally terrible for fighting unless you're really cheesing them out.

The most succinct way of doing that is the Venomfire spell from serpent kingdoms, so I'm just going to assume that's going on here. Otherwise, you'd probably be better off just turning into a bird or something and just using your spellcasting to win fights.

Severm snakes from Serpent Kingdoms have strangely high Strengths, a racial +16 to grapple, an improved Improved Grab without size requirements and a poison attack that qualifies for Venomfire.
Swindlespitter Dinosaur from MM3 gets an area blindness attack that works with Venomfire.

The prior's just cheesy, and the latter is probably out if the fleshraker is.

So I'd basically recommend not worrying about good combat forms until at least level 8, and just spending a bit more time in caster mode until then. Or use spells like Aspect of the Wolf and independently researched higher-level analogs to emulate the larger wild shapes.

[hamiltond465]

Dear zeal: martial study: sudden leap
this would let me instantly leap anywhere I want, at more or less any time right? -from tome of battle
well,
1: the rouge I play just fainted
2: were I not a halfling, I would get that on a DS shaper no question, even though I think that steps over the munchkin line.

Dear Godskook: the thing about scout/daggerspell shaper is that dagger spell shaper requires 1d6 sneakattack OR 1d6 skirmish, and then goes on to say that it's sneak attack stacks with any other sources it might have. It seems odd that it wouldn't just have you pick SA or SK to boost when you first take the class. I don't think I'll take shaper, probably gain more from druid in the long run.


anyway
1 scout/ 19 druid is probably the way to go, for simplicity and power

(1)feats I'm sorta thinking are required:
mounted combat -0
natural spell (duh.) -3
swift avenger -6 (doesn't matter til level 5 anyway)
mounted archery -9 (maybe, halves the penalty for ranged attacks on a mount: -4>-2 for moving[which is always while airborne], -8>-4 for running)(is there a mounted casting feat I should replace this with?)

other feats?:
spell focus(con) + augment summoning + ashbound
I kinda feel the summoning feats would leave me weaker than the other options. As a halfing druid, I'm not able to spontaneous cast summon spells until Summon Nature's Ally VI.
http://marksworld.zeemer.com/files/Racial%20Substitution.html#20

enlarge spell
the assumption I have is that I'll be in the air most of the time, increasing how far away I can be from the battle field my not be a bad idea

quicken spell
what caster is this bad for?

natural bond
I don't think this is a big priority. with mounted combat I can make anything that hits my mount null by beating the roll with a ride check.

Hawkvision(wild)
this is from the complete adventurer. it lets me use on charge of wildshape for: +8 to spot, and half penalties for distance spot checks and distant ranged attacks. duration 1 hour/HD

blindsense(wild)
another complete adventurer. lets me use one casting of wildshape to give myself 30ft of blind sense for 1min/hd

magic of the land (races of the wild)
when you cast a spell in a natural area, you may make a dc15 knowledge nature check, if you succeed then every creature effected by your spell is healed for 2*spell level in addition to the spell effect. Deals positive energy damage to undead.
sounds useful, it's not like I can fail that check.


(2) Finding a medium bird to ride around on.
Well, in core this means you get a dire X.
how do you decide what the level adjustment is?
If I just tacked on the 'dire' prefix, are there rules for what that does, or is it more of a 'talk it over with the DM' thing?
I would just buy a flying magical beast mount, but the bonuses for using my companion are so big!


(3) I haven't played a caster before. Do I have to pick the spells that I'm going to use quicken or extend or etc. on in advance?

[Rebel7284]

Unarmed Swordsage 2 to pick up sneak attack and wisdom to AC. Take at later levels to maximize maneuver access.

[Fitz10019]

Check out Races of the Wild (the same book that has the racial substitution levels for Halflings) for some interesting animals. The Brixashulty (p.186) is a neat animal to have as a mount -- it does a knockback attack. Normally it's a +4 as an animal companion, but not for Halflings. Also, the Dire Hawk (p.189) is a medium animal, so it could be your first flying form.

The smaller animals forms from the racial substitution levels are a drawback in the beginning, but from 11th level it dovetails with the normal wildshape sizing rules and you have one more change per day.

I suggest you do not spend feats or skill points toward riding. Your mount is very useful in the beginning, but not as much later on.