[3.5] Incantatrix Build Help

[Yuukale]

So guys, I've signed up for a Forgotten Realms game and I'm new to op. casters. I've read a few guides over there and just would like to know if I'm planning this right or if there's room for improvement.

Info:
Books Allowed: All Wotc but no dragon. No flaws allowed.
Don't count on otyugh's hole for iron will.
Sun Elf
Str:10 / Dex: 14 / Con: 12 / Int: 20 / Wis:14 / Cha:10

We'll start at lvl 2

Planned Build:
Wizard 1 Conjurer, Abrupt Jaunt, Scribe Scroll; Iron Will
Wizard 2
Wizard 3 Extend Spell
Wizard 4
Wizard 5 Spontaneous divination

Incantatrix 1 Focused Study (Necromancy); Spell Focus: Conjuration Metamagic School Focus: Conjuration
Incantatrix 2
Incantatrix 3

Master Specialist 1 Skill Focus: Spellcraft; Persistent Spell

Incantatrix 4 Empower Spell(b);
Incantatrix 5
Incantatrix 6
Incantatrix 7 Quicken Spell(b); Arcane Thesis: dunno yet...
Incantatrix 8
Incantatrix 9
Incantatrix 10 Twin Spell (b); Spell Focus: Transmutation

Olin Gisir 1 chain spell? suggestions?

Archmage 1 maximize spell? suggestions?
Archmage 2
Archmage 3



So far the known spells I've picked are:
Alarm - Protection from x - Grease - Mage Armor - Silent Image - Color Spray - Feather Fall - Treacherous Weapon

I still have 2 more known, suggestions? Do you think true strike and lesser orb of acid are solid choices?

[Xenodarkelf]

Well first of all i think you might be taking a lot of +6 and +4 LA metamagic feats too early. I'm currently playing a Grey Elf Wizard 5 / Incantater 5 on the Savage Tide AP and i've only taken Empower and Extend Metas. Think about taking Easy Metamagic if you are taking those feats so early in game, but i don't think Persist is all that great, most buffs you can just Extend and they will last long enough (I currently cast and extend every day Overland Flight, Mage Armor, Heart of Earth and Heart of Water).

About spells for level 1, Color Spray is an obvious save-or-lose for low level and grease is great too for control. Also remember you have to ban one school at level 1 Incantatrix so think ahead on your spell selection so you won't be wasting adding free spells to your book that you can't cast later on.

[Eisenfavl]

Persistent spell is awesome.
Also what I said on the other board.


I suggest you drop specialist, pick up Elven Generalist and Domain Wizard. Now you have more spells than a normal Specialist.
Swap Iron Will out for Ethran {PgtF} (regional restrictions are, infact, a variant rule).
Get Iron Will at 3, Extend Spell at 5 (WHY would you ever get Spontaneous Divination? You need ONE atonement spell to loophole most restrictions, which is damn cheap.)
Swap Spell Focus Conj for Leadership (you don't care about it's effect, so it can mainly be a flavour thing)
Instead of Incantatrix at level 8/9, grab ONE level of Hathran.
Get a continuous acorn of far travel, with it's anchor tree in Rasheman.

Empower is not that great for (de) buffing, or most BFC. I'd reccomand a Sanctum Spell instead, as you can combo it with the anchor tree and have another tree with a non-sanctum so you can switch which acorn is in use for whether you want for DC or level abuse.

I rather dislike archmage, but to each their own. Do levels past 17 really matter when you have Shapechange and Co. , broken level 9 spells since 2003.

[Yuukale]

Xeno:
Yeah, I'll swap feat order. Easy MM is dragon stuff, not allowed here :/ it's sweet as hell though.

Evo and Ench are my Specialist Ban - Necro will be my Incantatrix Ban.

Color Spray... definitely in! One spell left...


Scott:
Ethran and all the Hathran-Rashemi stuff won't do.
Spontaneous Divination will free me some slots, all I need to is know the divinations I may need.
Leadership the DM said to the players not to grab since it'll give him additional headache. And since I won't be circle magicking, it's kinda pointless.
As for Sanctum Spell, I don't know if this'll be really worth it being so situational.

Sorry Scott, but although I can see the potential in your tips, I don't think they're appropriate to my situation right now.

I'll post this reply on the other board as to prompt some more replies and opinions, hope you don't mind.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You'll lose Ray of Enfeeblement when you hit Incantatrix 1, it was the 3.0 version that let you keep spells you already knew when you picked your new prohibited school. Color Spray will probably serve you better in the lower levels, and would have a longer lifespan than Ray of Enfeeblement in your build.

Use Martial Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) and get Improved Initiative instead of Scribe Scroll. You still get a bonus feat at Wizard 5 with that, so you can still trade it out for Spontaneous Divination or a Domain Power.

I'd actually move up Master Specialist 1 to an earlier level, preferably between Incantatrix 3 and 4. At Incantatrix 3 you'll have a Spellcraft check of +23 (11 ranks, 26 Int with levels and Enhancement, +2 synergy, +2 masterwork tool (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#toolMasterwork)) for a check result of 33 by taking ten, not even high enough to Persist a 0-level spell. If you pick up Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) at 3rd, and Extend Spell via Wizard 5 (domain power ACF for Planning if you went Martial Wizard), you'll need to invest every skill rank you gain after that point to put the maximum bonus toward Spellcraft. Even then, by Incantatrix 3 you'll only have gained 29 skill points since taking Item Familiar, for a +9 bonus, but that's enough to Persist 2nd level and lower spells via Cooperative Metamagic and Metamagic Effect. At Wizard 5/ Incantatrix 3/ Master Specialist 1, your Spellcraft check will be at 49 by taking ten, enough to Persist 4th level spells.

Note that an Item Familiar is considered an intelligent item, which is in turn considered a construct. Constructs still function in Antimagic and Dead Magic areas, and are immune to Dispel and Disjunction attempts. You can make it a worn item and wear it under your clothes, so opponents will have neither line of sight nor line of effect if they wish to sunder, disarm, or slight of hand it. Make it a custom Vest of Spellcraft if you can, to grant a Competence bonus to that skill, but it would need to be at least +5 to be priced over 2,000 gp and qualify to be made an Item Familiar.

[Wings of Peace]

Why Sun Elf instead of Gray Elf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm)?

Edit: Nevermind.

[Hirax]

For your persisting pleasure, if you can get your CL up high enough to make it worthwhile, skin of the steel dragon is a 5th level spell that grants 10+CL spell resistance. Here's a list of spells a 20th level incantatrix (with arcane disciple x2 for the luck and destiny domains) I'm monkeying with has active constantly:

Cloud wings (via miracle)
Mantle of the icy soul (via miracle)
Consumptive field (via miracle)
Nixie's grace (via miracle)
Algid enhancement (via miracle)
Divine power (via miracle)
Foresight
Undermaster
Choose destiny
Breath weapon admixture
Shapechange
Mind blank
Veil of undeath
Ghostform
Necrotic empowerment
Moment of prescience
Energy immunity: fire
Energy immunity: acid
Energy immunity: electricity (cold immunity obtained from mantle of the icy soul, sonic immunity obtained by generally being shapechanged into a chronotyryn)
Greater arcane sight
Unicorn heart
Anticipate teleport, greater
Resistance, superior
Stone body
Dragonsight
Skin of the steel dragon
Detect scrying
Freedom of movement
Ruin delver's fortune (reflex)
Ruin delver's fortune (fort)
Friendly fire
Dragon breath
Forceward
Create magic tattoo
Discern shapechanger
Scintillating scales
See invisibility
Hoard gullet
Heroics (improved initiative)
Unseen servant
Comprehend languages
Ebon eyes

Note that some lower level 10 minutes/level spells aren't persisted, they're simply extended, which at my pumped CL means they'll last about 16 hours.

The dragon breath is heavily metamagicked, and probably isn't suitable for real games. It's usuable every 4 rounds and does half searing fire and half piercing cold. Depending on how you stack things, the most conservative damage estimate would be 80+16d8 searing fire and 10d8 piercing cold (average of 197 total), and the least conservative would be 176+10d8 searing fire, 176+10d8 piercing cold (average of 442 total).

Spellcraft checks are achieved as follows:
23 ranks
15 int mod
10 take 10
2 knowledge (arcana) synergy
5 Tome of ancient lore (competence bonus, replace with wand of wieldskill if on a budget)
2 Share talents spell (untyped bonus)
8 wand of divine insight (insight bonus)
65

[Yuukale]

You'll lose Ray of Enfeeblement when you hit Incantatrix 1, it was the 3.0 version that let you keep spells you already knew when you picked your new prohibited school. Color Spray will probably serve you better in the lower levels, and would have a longer lifespan than Ray of Enfeeblement in your build.


Indeed, it's just that enfeeblement seems so sweet having no save. But yeah, every spell known is precious I guess. So... done.



Use Martial Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) and get Improved Initiative instead of Scribe Scroll. You still get a bonus feat at Wizard 5 with that, so you can still trade it out for Spontaneous Divination or a Domain Power.

hmmm I'll give some thought on that.




I'd actually move up Master Specialist 1 to an earlier level, preferably between Incantatrix 3 and 4.


done.



If you pick up Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) at 3rd, and Extend Spell via Wizard 5 (domain power ACF for Planning if you went Martial Wizard), you'll need to invest every skill rank you gain after that point to put the maximum bonus toward Spellcraft. Even then, by Incantatrix 3 you'll only have gained 29 skill points since taking Item Familiar, for a +9 bonus, but that's enough to Persist 2nd level and lower spells via Cooperative Metamagic and Metamagic Effect. At Wizard 5/ Incantatrix 3/ Master Specialist 1, your Spellcraft check will be at 49 by taking ten, enough to Persist 4th level spells.

Note that an Item Familiar is considered an intelligent item, which is in turn considered a construct. Constructs still function in Antimagic and Dead Magic areas, and are immune to Dispel and Disjunction attempts. You can make it a worn item and wear it under your clothes, so opponents will have neither line of sight nor line of effect if they wish to sunder, disarm, or slight of hand it. Make it a custom Vest of Spellcraft if you can, to grant a Competence bonus to that skill, but it would need to be at least +5 to be priced over 2,000 gp and qualify to be made an Item Familiar.

dunno if DM will allow this but I'll give it a try. Seems quite interesting indeed. Should I take persist later on?

[Yuukale]

For your persisting pleasure, if you can get your CL up high enough to make it worthwhile, skin of the steel dragon is a 5th level spell that grants 10+CL spell resistance. Here's a list of spells a 20th level incantatrix (with arcane disciple x2 for the luck and destiny domains) I'm monkeying with has active constantly:


I'm new to casters and all its mechanics. How much SR would I want?

Dragon Breath seems awesome though I banned Evocation. I want to believe that being a GOD is more rewarding and fun than being a Blaster xD - This'll be my first shot at a god.

And, thanks a lot for the modifiers source and persistable spells.

[Hirax]

I'm new to casters and all its mechanics. How much SR would I want?

Dragon Breath seems awesome though I banned Evocation. I want to believe that being a GOD is more rewarding and fun than being a Blaster xD - This'll be my first shot at a god.

And, thanks a lot for the modifiers source and persistable spells.

Shadow evocations can get you dragon breath, so that's doable for you later if you want. It's handy because that way you don't really need to prepare many more blasting spells, you can use all your other spell slots for non-blasty things.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You've got both Spell Focus and Metamagic School Focus at 6th level. You get one general feat and one bonus metamagic feat at that level, neither of those is a metamagic feat. Move Persistent Spell to 6th and put Metamagic School Focus at 9th. It also looks like you stuck Master Specialist in there and didn't fix where you get your other general feats after that level.

Being an Elf, you get Martial Weapon Proficiency x4 as racial bonus feats. Definitely see about using the Dark Chaos Shuffle to switch those to any four feats you qualify for later on. For Persist tricks, good candidates would be Arcane Disciple for Destiny and/or anything that gives you Miracle. Note that while you can only prepare a given domain spell once each day, you can use Pearls of Power to cast a single domain spell multiple times. Miracle can be used to emulate Holy Star (multiple times), Stormrage, etc. which can then be made Persistent.

Definitely get Fell Drain from Libris Mortis. Cast several Fell Drain Cloud of Knives (PH2) spells and make them Persistent, and you can release daggers that deal negative levels every round in addition to your other actions.

Item Familiar is extremely overpowered, in that every character should take it just to get the +10% XP bonus. The free skill bonuses, bonus spell slots, etc. is just icing on the cake, but the skill bonuses are what you're getting it for in this case. It's supposed to be balanced by the fact that losing the item screws your character, but that's pretty easy to avoid if your DM plays fair. If your DM has a problem with the XP bonus it grants, see about getting it converted into a separate XP pool from which you can pay for item crafting and spells with XP costs, but that doesn't contribute to gaining the next level.

[Yuukale]

Shadow evocations can get you dragon breath, so that's doable for you later if you want. It's handy because that way you don't really need to prepare many more blasting spells, you can use all your other spell slots for non-blasty things.

Hmmm... indeed. Btw, sometimes it feels as if illusion spells are easily "disbelievable" - is there any chart or visual aid that shows how much a spell's DC should be so to minimize enemies' chance of saving? On the bright side, illusion saves are Will, and that's the least popular save around, IIRC.


You've got both Spell Focus and Metamagic School Focus at 6th level. You get one general feat and one bonus metamagic feat at that level, neither of those is a metamagic feat. Move Persistent Spell to 6th and put Metamagic School Focus at 9th. It also looks like you stuck Master Specialist in there and didn't fix where you get your other general feats after that level.

oopsie, my bad, will fix that, thanks.



Being an Elf, you get Martial Weapon Proficiency x4 as racial bonus feats. Definitely see about using the Dark Chaos Shuffle to switch those to any four feats you qualify for later on. For Persist tricks, good candidates would be Arcane Disciple for Destiny and/or anything that gives you Miracle. Note that while you can only prepare a given domain spell once each day, you can use Pearls of Power to cast a single domain spell multiple times. Miracle can be used to emulate Holy Star (multiple times), Stormrage, etc. which can then be made Persistent.

Looked up chaos shuffle. Holy mother of god... this is broken like hell (pun intended) - but it'll be quite tricky to pull, since there's all the fluff implications behind tainting and removing the taint (and why in the nine hells would I do it repeatedly) -
perhaps I'll talk to my dm, explain this and try to develop a spell that allows me to swap things (or strike a pact with some entity and achieve the same end) - maybe a level higher (9th circle). But I'll definitely try to use this idea! Thanks A LOT.



Definitely get Fell Drain from Libris Mortis. Cast several Fell Drain Cloud of Knives (PH2) spells and make them Persistent, and you can release daggers that deal negative levels every round in addition to your other actions.

at which level do you suggest? not assuming I'll get to shuffle my proficiencies.



Item Familiar is extremely overpowered, in that every character should take it just to get the +10% XP bonus. The free skill bonuses, bonus spell slots, etc. is just icing on the cake, but the skill bonuses are what you're getting it for in this case. It's supposed to be balanced by the fact that losing the item screws your character, but that's pretty easy to avoid if your DM plays fair. If your DM has a problem with the XP bonus it grants, see about getting it converted into a separate XP pool from which you can pay for item crafting and spells with XP costs, but that doesn't contribute to gaining the next level.

I'm sold. Will see ways to fit this in the game.

again, thanks a lot for the ideas guys, if there's something else any of you or someone new would like to add, I'm all ears (you know, elf... ears...)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Looked up chaos shuffle. Holy mother of god... this is broken like hell (pun intended) - but it'll be quite tricky to pull, since there's all the fluff implications behind tainting and removing the taint (and why in the nine hells would I do it repeatedly) -
perhaps I'll talk to my dm, explain this and try to develop a spell that allows me to swap things (or strike a pact with some entity and achieve the same end) - maybe a level higher (9th circle). But I'll definitely try to use this idea! Thanks A LOT.

The Dark Chaos Shuffle is easy to explain: Cast Embrace the Dark Chaos as many times as the number of feats you want to switch, to get as many of the Abyssal Heritor chain of feats, many of which are actually beneficial but have dark implications. Afterward your character has a change of heart, and casts Shun the Dark Chaos an equal number of times, but instead of switching back to his original feats he picks whatever he wants.


As I said before, consider switching Spontaneous Divination for Extend Spell to put Item Familiar at 3rd, which is pretty much the only way to still qualify for everything on time. If you go with Martial Wizard, get the Domain Granted Power for the Planning domain to still get Extend Spell at Wizard 5. Switch Empower Spell to Fell Drain, Empower isn't very good anyway and you can use Fell Drain for Persistent Cloud of Knives shenanigans (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10891237#20).

[Alleran]

You'll lose Ray of Enfeeblement when you hit Incantatrix 1, it was the 3.0 version that let you keep spells you already knew when you picked your new prohibited school.
If you can find the spare feats, there's a chain in Lost Empires of Faerun (three feats in total) that allows you to restore your access to one of your prohibited schools.

[Cruiser1]

Cast Embrace the Dark Chaos as many times as the number of feats you want to switch, to get as many of the Abyssal Heritor chain of feats, many of which are actually beneficial but have dark implications. Afterward your character has a change of heart, and casts Shun the Dark Chaos an equal number of times, but instead of switching back to his original feats he picks whatever he wants.
If you have two or more Dark Chaos feats, your alignment shifts to Chaotic. However, you can have one Dark Chaos feat without it affecting your alignment any. Therefore, most characters taking advantage of Dark Chaos should change one feat at a time, by casting Embrace the Dark Chaos once followed by Shun the Dark Chaos once.

A cheaper way to change feats is to use Feat Retraining as described in PHB2, although that only applies to official feats you chose, and not cheese like retraining weapon proficiency feats. You can change one feat per new level gained. There's an optional retraining cost of 50 gold and 2 weeks that DM's may choose to require.

Being an Elf, you get Martial Weapon Proficiency x4 as racial bonus feats. Definitely see about using the Dark Chaos Shuffle to switch those to any four feats you qualify for later on.
If your DM lets you get away with this, by all means use it! :smallbiggrin: However allowing Dark Chaos to be used in this manner allows infinite feats. For example, cast Heroics to gain a Fighter Bonus feat, and then Dark Chaos to switch it to another feat permanently, and repeat the process. The standard way DM's balance Dark Chaos (if they don't ban it altogether) is to make Dark Chaos feats remember and be attached to their source, and only allow switching back to feats of the same type. For example, you can apply Dark Chaos to a Fighter bonus feat obtained through Heroics, however it can only be swapped back to another feat of the same time (another Fighter bonus feat), and the Dark Chaos feat or the feat it was turned into also go away once the duration of Heroics expires.

[Yuukale]

Yeah, the shuffle is being seriously considered, till I'm able to pull it, there'll be plenty of time to work an agreement.

Concerning item familiar, I think this will kick in, specially now that I've got a fancy agreement with my DM. I asked if I could have a Kiira (elven jewel, check LEoF) but so far, everything locked but the ability to use it as spellbook. He allowed, and I will unlock its bonuses, spells and memories in due time. Since it sinks in your skin, makes the perfect item familiar, right? =D

right now I've got two pressing questions:

1- 900gp (2nd lvl gold) to spend on what? Is arcanist glove worth its 500gp ?

2- is a dex of 14 able to make me consider ranged touch spells ? is there much of a difference between a dex 14 and a 16 regarding my chance to hit a RngTouchSpell ?

thanks =D

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Get a Healing Belt if you have enough, and tell the rest of your party the same thing.

Dex 14 is fine for making ranged touch attacks, a +3 to hit vs touch ACs in the 8-12 range is still a >50% chance to hit.

[Yuukale]

thanks, I was almost going for the arcanist gloves but 4d8/day of healing can get me well through the first levels (cuz even with full hit die I don't think I'll have more hp than 4d8 for a long while xD)

edit: on a look through MIC item list, 1st level eternal wand seemed charming - and... is it a nice option or just dumb, buying some 1st level scrolls so I can copy their spells to my spellbook and start with additional spells known?