[PF] Warlock: Does anyone know a good PF update?

[Mr. Zolrane]

I doubt I'll ever go back to 3.5, but I see the Warlock as a class that would have a lot of potential if someone updated it to Pathfinder power levels. I believe the 3.5 Warlock was a high Tier 4, yes? Ideally I would like any PF update to be Tier 3 (ideally, in my opinion, all classes should be Tier 3 but that's a whole 'nother discussion).

Anyhow, has anyone cooked up a good Warlock update or know someone who has? And yes, I'm aware that this third-party dreck (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/warlock) exists; I'm not interested.

[Chained Birds]

Well, there is this: 3rd Party Warlock (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/warlock).

Though I hear people comparing Alchemists to 3.5 Warlocks with the whole,
Warlock = Arbitrarily large amount of Ranged Touch Attacks
Alchemist = Arbitrarily moderate amount of Ranged Touch Attacks (+Splash Damage)
Warlock = Essences and Shapes to alter effects of Eldritch Blast
Alchemist = Discoveries and Extracts to alter effects of Bombs

Though Alchemist are a lot more versatile due to Extracts and Mutagens.

[Psyren]

As a quick fix, gestalt it with Binder or Incarnate - that'll get you up to PF power levels.

As far as a truly good homebrew conversion though... I got nothin'.

[tyckspoon]

Increase the number of invocation choices, split out Blast Shapes/Essences so they don't eat invocation options, and let them choose from both the Warlock and Dragonfire Adept invocation lists. That should mostly do it; Warlock is one of the relatively few classes that can be helped out by just giving it more of what it already has, IMO. That is, the Invocations are already at an appropriate power level (and Eldritch Blast is reasonable if not terribly impressive damage, especially if provided a means of doing it more than 1/turn), the Warlock just needs to have a broad enough variety of effects available through them to meet T3's versatility mark.

[Krazzman]

You could do it like this:
Raise HD to d8.
Every uneven Level: +1d6 Eldritch Blast (is completely fine for a Touch attack).
Every even Level: new Invocation.
On first level give them Eldritch Glaive and one other for free.
Give them some cantrips beside detect magic (light, mending, prestigination?)
Include a Vital-Strike-like Invocation or something similar.


I was quite eager for the witch, because it seemed to be like the warlock...but sadly it is not...

[Keneth]

I've actually converted the warlock to PF as a thought experiment but I haven't had time to write it down yet.

It's much like the post above except they get a few more treats (like crafting without requisite feats), some extra skill points, and they can choose their invocations every day while still being limited to 3 per grade by default. Plus I've made a bucketload of invocations over the years and with the increased selection they rise up to tier 2 when properly optimised.

[GoatBoy]

There's a huge number of spells out there which would make suitable warlock invocations. Just about anything aside from direct damage or healing could be considered.

You could also change invocations to have a save DC of 1/2 class level + Cha mod, rather than effective spell level, which would make low-level invocations last longer in terms of usefulness.

Grant them Master Craftsman (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/master-craftsman---final) for free at a low level.

Granting additional invocations as a favoured class benefit is also a good idea.

[Keneth]

There's a huge number of spells out there which would make suitable warlock invocations. That's true but part of warlock's charm is that it has a unique flair, you'd have to make the converted spells more interesting to preserve that (such as is the case with existing invocations).

[GoatBoy]

That's true but part of warlock's charm is that it has a unique flair, you'd have to make the converted spells more interesting to preserve that (such as is the case with existing invocations).

True, but we are kind of reaching the crossroads of crunch/fluff here. Warlocks should be interesting, but they should be functional too. Are there any spells of which you are thinking which can't be rationalized as invocations, ie. dark abilities granted by unseen powers beyond comprehension?

Like, if a warlock player wants to haste himself for one round as a swift action, for example. I wouldn't consider haste to be a "typical" warlock ability, but I'd let him call it "dark quickening" or "unholy vigor" or something and be done with it. Are there any sorc/wiz spells which simply wouldn't work with this approach?

[Keneth]

Nah, I'm not saying that invocations shouldn't emulate spells, I'm saying they shouldn't be copied verbatim. Most of warlock's invocations that copy specific spells tend to be more flavorful than the original (e.g. cold damage for black tentacles, major image left behind when using dimension door, etc.).

More importantly, copying spells should generally be avoided when making new invocations. A warlock is supposed to be a unique class, the game doesn't need a sorcerer with unlimited spell uses. I've seen people going overboard before, trying to fill the warlock's bag of tricks with every trick in the book, and it never ends well. :smallsmile:

[gorfnab]

Here's my idea so far for a Pathfinder Warlock

Warlock (Pathfinder)

HD: d6

Skills: 4+Int mod
Acrobatics, Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Intimidate, Fly, Knowledges (all), Linguistiics, Perception, Profession, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Stealth, Use Magic Device

1. Eldritch Blast 1d6, Heritage, Detect Magic
2. Read Magic, Eldritch Shape
3. Eldritch Blast 2d6, Eldritch Essence
4. Decieve Item
5. Eldritch Blast 3d6, Heritage
6.
7. Eldritch Blast 4d6, Eldritch Shape
8. Eldritch Essence
9. Eldritch Blast 5d6
10. Heritage
11. Eldritch Blast 6d6
12. Imbue Item, Eldritch Shape
13. Eldritch Blast 7d6, Eldritch Essence
14.
15. Eldritch Blast 8d6, Heritage
16.
17. Eldritch Blast 9d6, Eldritch Shape
18. Eldritch Essence
19. Eldritch Blast 10d6
20. Heritage

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Unchanged

Eldritch Blast gained on the odd levels.

Invocations: A warlock gains one invocation known at every level. Invocations can be chosen from the warlock or dragonfire adept invocation list. The warlock gains access to least invocations at 1st level, lesser at 6th, greater at 11th, and dark at 16th.

Eldritch Essence: A warlock gains one eldrith essence known. This is in addition to the one invocation known at each level.

Eldritch Shape: A warlock gains one eldrith shape known. This is in addition to the one invocation known at each level.

Detect Magic: Unchanged

Read Magic: As Detect Magic but using the spell Read Magic.

Heritage: Choose one of the following heritages at first level (simliar to sorcerer bloodlines).

Fey Heritage
1. DR 1/ Cold Iron, Low Light Vision, Wild Empathy (as druid), Bonus to Diplomacy checks equal to 1/2 character level (minimum +1)
5. DR 2/ Cold Iron, Unearthly Grace (cha mod to saving throws), Wings (30ft average manuvrabilty)
10. DR 3/ Cold Iron, Greater Unearthly Grace (cha mod to AC as deflection bonus), Wings (30ft good manuvrability)
15. DR 4/ Cold Iron, Stunning Glance (as Nymph, DC 10 + 1/2HD +Cha mod), Wings (60ft good manuvrabiltiy)
20. DR 5/ Cold Iron, Wings (90ft perfect maneuverability), Blinding Beauty (as Nymph, DC 10 +1/2HD +Cha mod)

Demon Heritage
1. DR 1/ Cold Iron, Low Light Vision, Darkvision 60ft, Arcane Bond (as wizard but familiar only, familiar gains fiendish template), Protection from Law 3/day SLA
5. DR 2/ Cold Iron, Cold Resistance 5, Arcane Bond (gain Improved Familiar as a bonus feat but restrict to Quasit only)
10. DR 3/ Cold Iron, Cold Resistance 10, Telepathy 100ft, Immunity to poison, Summon Monster SLA V 3/day Babau only
15. DR 4/ Cold Iron, Cold Resistance 15, Word of Chaos 3/day SLA (DC 10 +1/2HD +Cha mod)
20. DR 5/ Cold Iron, Cold Resistance Constant Unholy Aura (DC 10 +1/2HD +Cha mod), Summon Monster IX SLA 3/day Nalfeshnee only

Devil Heritage
1. DR 1/ Silver, Low Light Vision, Darkvision 60ft, Arcane Bond (as wizard but familiar only, familiar gains fiendish template), Protection from Chaos 3/day SLA
5. DR 2/ Silver, Fire Resistance 5, Arcane Bond (gain Improved Familiar as a bonus feat but restrict to Imp only)
10. DR 3/ Silver, Fire Resistance 10, Telepathy 100ft, Immunity to poison, Summon Monster V SLA 3/day Bearded Devil only
15. DR 4/ Silver, Fire Resistance 15, Dictum 3/dy SLA (DC 10 +1/2HD +Cha mod)
20. DR 5/ Silver, Fire Resistance 20, Constant Unholy Aura (DC 10 +1/2HD +Cha mod), Summon Monster IX SLA 3/day Ice Devil only

Dragon Heritage
1. Natural Armor +1, Eldrith Blast changes to 30ft cone (Reflex save for half). Eldritch Blast deals chosen energy type (cold, fire, electricity, or acid) instead of magic energy
5. Natural Armor +2, Energy Resistance 5 (energy type matches eldritch blast damage), Claws (1d4 for medium size) and Bite (1d6 for medium size)
10. Natural Armor +3, Energy Resistance 10; Draconic Aura (at the start of encounter all enemies within 30ft, Will save DC 10 +1/2HD +Cha mod versus shaken for duration of encounter)
15. Natural Armor +4, Energy Resistance 15; Wings (60ft average manuvrability)
20. Natural Armor +5, Energy Resistance 20; Immunity to paralysis and sleep, Blindsense 60ft

Shadow Heritage
1. Deflection +1, Low Light Vision, Darkvision 60ft, +10ft to all movement modes, Bonus to Stealth checks equal to 1/2 character level (minimum +1)
5. Deflection +2, See perfectly in darkness both natural and magically created, Hide in Plain Sight (as Shadowdancer)
10. Deflection +3, Fast Healing 1 and 20% concealment in areas of dim light or darkness
15. Deflection +4, +2 luck bonus on saving throws, Extraplanar Subtype (treat Plane of Shadow as home plane)
20. Deflection +5, Fast Healing 2 and 50% concealment in areas of dim light or darkness, Incorporeal Subtype (can become corporeal for a number of rounds per day equal to character level)

Undead Heritage
1. Channel Energy (as an evil cleric), cha mod to saving throws versus mind-affecting effects, Unearthly Aura (Animals do not willingly approach within 30 feet, unless a master makes a DC 25 Handle Animal, Ride, or wild empathy check)
5. Fortification 25%, Cold Resistance 5, Immunity to disease; no need to eat, sleep, or breathe
10. Fortification 50%, Cold Resistance 10, Immunity to poison, sleep, and bleed
15. Fortification 75%, Cold Resistance 15, Immunity to paralysis, non-lethal damage, fatigue, exhaustion,
20. Fortification 100%, Cold Resistance 20, Immunity to ability and energy drain, immunity to damage to physical ability scores, immunity to death effects

[Feralventas]

A while back I was in a 3.5 game and asked for permission to use Pathfinder class features. DM was okay with it if I could update the rest of the party to match. One of the PC's was a warlock and in order to boost that without knowledge of the 3rd party source, we agreed to give him access to the sorcerer bloodline of their choice, preferably one aligning with the pact their character made to become a 'lock in the first place.

Essentially, instead of adding spells to their spell list, they gained the bonus bloodline spells as 1/day SLA's, as well as the bloodline arcana, powers, and bonus feats and skill. (They went with Claws, for reference.). This could also work pretty well with Aberant, Infernal, Fey, or a lot of other outsider-focused bloodlines.