[3.5] Domain Wizard

[Thurbane]

Has anyone had experience using the Domain Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVariantDomainWiz ard) variant from UA? Apart from giving up the option to specialise in a school of magic, it seems to be all bonus and no drawback, and as we all know, Wizard is already a very strong class.

Is it possible to combine Elven Generalist Wizardry sub level? If I'm reading it correctly, both require you to give up the ability to specialise, so I'm guessing not.

Finally, for anyone who's used it, what Wizard Domain did you find the best, and did you ever try home-brewing any others?

Cheers - T

[Hirax]

Many people say that because of how they're worded you can take both domain and generalist variants, but it's not something I'd ever try to bring to a table. Between the two I like the elf option better, because the one extra spell can be anything, and the additional spell learned at each level is nice. As far as how they both play, they're no-drawback wizard boosters, but in an actual game setting the additional spells per day isn't all that noticable, the extra free spell is likely to be a bigger difference maker if your DM is generous in allowing you to pick spells. Some of the domains have pretty good spell lists, so having to prepare those spells every day isn't at all bad, especially because they can be prepared with metamagic, if that's of interest.

[Eisenfavl]

Yes, it unambiguously stacks with Elven Generalist.
One drops the ability to specialise, one (DW) says that you cannot specialise.

I usually go for Storm Domain myself. Got a whole bunch of decent spells, and control winds is sweet.

[kardar233]

Doesn't Dextercorvia have an Elven Domain Generalist build that gets 9ths immediately?

[Wings of Peace]

Eidetic Domain Generalist with Collegiate Wizard. Lets do this. Too bad the immediate action teleport can't come to the party.

Edit: I also second the Storm domain since it grants 2 Cleric spells and 2 Druid spells which is the highest concentration of non-class spells of any domain.

[Thurbane]

I should throw these on a Necropolitan Fire Elf BBEG one day...

[Eisenfavl]

Edit: I also second the Storm domain since it grants 2 Cleric spells and 2 Druid spells which is the highest concentration of non-class spells of any domain.
Obscuring Mist is cast as a cleric, but is a wizard spell anyway.

Control Winds is just awesome. Ridiculous area, can be recast to cap out power, (two castings at Clv 9 hits blown away for medium creatures).
Totally shuts down most mooks.

[Acanous]

Doesn't Dextercorvia have an Elven Domain Generalist build that gets 9ths immediately?
Yes, it requires a feat -don't remember the name of it- that lets you swap two spell slots for a slot one level higher.

Basically you swap two firsts for a second slot, which opens your domain and gives you a second slot from elven generalist- then you swap both non-domain slots for the next level up. Rinse and repeat 'till you hit 9ths.

[Wings of Peace]

Yes, it requires a feat -don't remember the name of it- that lets you swap two spell slots for a slot one level higher.

Basically you swap two firsts for a second slot, which opens your domain and gives you a second slot from elven generalist- then you swap both non-domain slots for the next level up. Rinse and repeat 'till you hit 9ths.

Versatile Spellcaster from Races of the Dragon.

[candycorn]

Versatile Spellcaster from Races of the Dragon.

No, that one lets you swap two slots to CAST a spell one level higher. You never receive a slot for it.

[Wings of Peace]

No, that one lets you swap two slots to CAST a spell one level higher. You never receive a slot for it.

This is all guesswork but here's what I'm imagining everybody referencing Dextercorvia is referring to:

Versatile Spellcaster lets you sacrifice two spell slots to cast a spell one level higher. Generalist Wizard lets the wizard prepare a bonus spell of the highest level they can cast each day and Domain Wizard grants a bonus slot of each spell level the wizard can cast (albeit it must be a domain spell).

Use versatile spellcaster -> 1+1=2 -> Wizard gains bonus domain slot and prepares generalist slot -> 2+2=3 -> Q.E.D. -> 9th level spells.

Tack on the Eidetic Wizard alternate class feature if you're feeling sassy and we're ready to roll with the best of them.

[FMArthur]

Eidetic Spellcaster doesn't change anything about that cheesy combo. You learn new spells pretty much exactly as normal but use your brain as the spellbook. You don't circumvent any struggles in actually obtaining the spells or anything. It's a 'combo' with Collegiate Wizard, Elven Generalist and Domain Wizard in that your extra spells are much safer when you record them just like the rest of the spells you learn, but nothing else.

[Tyndmyr]

Has anyone had experience using the Domain Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVariantDomainWiz ard) variant from UA? Apart from giving up the option to specialise in a school of magic, it seems to be all bonus and no drawback, and as we all know, Wizard is already a very strong class.

*shrug* Gives a good reason to not specialize, imo.


Is it possible to combine Elven Generalist Wizardry sub level? If I'm reading it correctly, both require you to give up the ability to specialise, so I'm guessing not.

Yes.


Finally, for anyone who's used it, what Wizard Domain did you find the best, and did you ever try home-brewing any others?

Cheers - T

Used Storm for the same reasons already mentioned. Have not tried homebrewing, but given the amount of already published domains for clerics, it would not be a hard task to say "this one works for domain wizards too".

[FMArthur]

Aside from Storm Domain's nonwizard spells, the other two domains that draw my attention are the Antimagic and Conjuration domains. There's nothing particularly special about either; they just seem to have the most consistently useful spells, stuff you'd want to prepare anyway, so the feature gets closer to being plain bonus slots.

Cold Domain actually has two literally unique spells that don't even appear on lists, but they basically amount to a couple of fire evocations with Energy Substitution applied. The spells are Delayed Blast Frostball (7th) and Comet Swarm (9th). I suppose the difference is the lack of the feat expenditure and the fact that they don't actually change subtype from [Fire] to [Cold].

[Wings of Peace]

Eidetic Spellcaster doesn't change anything about that cheesy combo. You learn new spells pretty much exactly as normal but use your brain as the spellbook. You don't circumvent any struggles in actually obtaining the spells or anything. It's a 'combo' with Collegiate Wizard, Elven Generalist and Domain Wizard in that your extra spells are much safer when you record them just like the rest of the spells you learn, but nothing else.

I know. I just like Eidetic Spellcaster.

[Slipperychicken]

I know. I just like Eidetic Spellcaster.

Same here. Even if the DM is nice about spellbooks, I'll always be scared for it. Plus the idea that if the party winds up naked in a cell, an Eidetic Wizard can get right back up and start rocking out again, just like everyone else, instead of copying spells for a month.

[Narylinn]

This is all guesswork but here's what I'm imagining everybody referencing Dextercorvia is referring to:

Versatile Spellcaster lets you sacrifice two spell slots to cast a spell one level higher. Generalist Wizard lets the wizard prepare a bonus spell of the highest level they can cast each day and Domain Wizard grants a bonus slot of each spell level the wizard can cast (albeit it must be a domain spell).

Use versatile spellcaster -> 1+1=2 -> Wizard gains bonus domain slot and prepares generalist slot -> 2+2=3 -> Q.E.D. -> 9th level spells.

I don't see how this would work.

Versatile Spellcaster lets you "use two spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher." Unless there's some obscure exception I'm unaware of, a spellcaster can't know a spell of a level higher than (s)he is able to cast, so a 1st-level caster has no way to know 2nd-level spells (since (s)he would have no 2nd-level spell slots), and therefore could not use this feat to spend two 1st-level spell slots to cast a 2nd-level spell. A 1st-level caster could, though, use two 0-level spell slots to cast a 1st-level spell, which is a rather good deal. As candycorn pointed out, you don't get a higher-level spell slot than you already had by using this feat.

Also, the Versatile Spellcaster feat is presumably for spontaneous casters (and has as its prerequisite the ability to spontaneously cast spells); while it doesn't explicitly state in its description that a character with both prepared and spontaneous casting ability can't use it for her/his prepared spells, the implication is that it's for spontaneous spellcasting only. Some DMs might let it work for prepared spells too if a character qualifies for it by having both prepared and spontaneous spellcasting classes, but that doesn't get around the fact that there's no way a 1st-level caster can know a 2nd-level, or 3rd-level, etc. spell.

[DarkSoul]

I don't see how this would work.You don't see it, because it doesn't work, so there's nothing to see. :)

I've got a sun elf eidetic domain generalist collegiate wizard IMC. So far, I'm underwhelmed. They've spent basically all their feats on this "combo" and making it better, and thus far haven't managed to actually DO much with all those spells.

[Segev]

If you have something like Mother Cyst which says you know all the spells it offers as long as you have the ability to cast spells of that level, you can probably exploit tricks like that, but...most DMs will thwap you and say "no."

[Gusmo]

There are a variety of ways that I've read over the years to bootstrap 9th level spells using feats. I've never taken them seriously enough to read and understand them, because as mentioned, there's rarely (never?) a practical table use for such methods. They generally involve feats such as versatile spellcaster, earth spell, sanctum spell, mother cyst, magical training, heighten spell combined with metamagic reduction, and other similar things that I'm forgetting.

[Andezzar]

I don't see how this would work.

Versatile Spellcaster lets you "use two spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher." Unless there's some obscure exception I'm unaware of, a spellcaster can't know a spell of a level higher than (s)he is able to cast, so a 1st-level caster has no way to know 2nd-level spells (since (s)he would have no 2nd-level spell slots), and therefore could not use this feat to spend two 1st-level spell slots to cast a 2nd-level spell. A 1st-level caster could, though, use two 0-level spell slots to cast a 1st-level spell, which is a rather good deal. As candycorn pointed out, you don't get a higher-level spell slot than you already had by using this feat.That's where heightened spell comes in. A heightened first level spell is a second level spell. So a first level wizard can indeed know a second level spell.

[gorfnab]

Eidetic Domain Generalist with Collegiate Wizard.

Got a whole handbook on that in my signature: Easy Bake Wizard Handdbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?325933-Easy-Bake-Wizard-Handbook&p=16808225#post16808225)

[Narylinn]

That's where heightened spell comes in. A heightened first level spell is a second level spell. So a first level wizard can indeed know a second level spell.

This still doesn't work, since you can't use Heighten Spell (or any other metamagic feat) to increase a spell's slot to a level of spell slot you don't have in the first place, and, again, a 1st-level wizard isn't going to have a 2nd-level spell slot.

I would also assert that a 1st-level spell heightened to 2nd-level using Heighten Spell (and thus casting it from/memorizing it in a 2nd-level spell slot) is not a 2nd-level spell, at least not for the purpose of "knowing" 2nd-level spell. For instance, take the oddball case of a wizard with an 11 Intelligence. When he advances to 3rd level, he can't learn (and thus, can't know) 2nd-level spells, and won't be able to until his Intelligence increases to at least 12.

[Goaty14]

No, that one lets you swap two slots to CAST a spell one level higher. You never receive a slot for it.

A sufficient intelligence does, though.

[EndocrineBandit]

I'm running a domain wizard, dm has ruled it also gives access to clerical domain spells as long as it coincides with the worshipped diety, much akin to arcane disciple without the wisdom dependence. Is there a domain that grants righteous might and divine wrath? I think those are the two spells im thinking of. Makes bab = cl, adds a bunch of strength and boosts size among other bonuses?

[CozJa]

Has anyone had experience using the Domain Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVariantDomainWiz ard) variant from UA? Apart from giving up the option to specialise in a school of magic, it seems to be all bonus and no drawback, and as we all know, Wizard is already a very strong class.

Is it possible to combine Elven Generalist Wizardry sub level? If I'm reading it correctly, both require you to give up the ability to specialise, so I'm guessing not.

Finally, for anyone who's used it, what Wizard Domain did you find the best, and did you ever try home-brewing any others?

Cheers - T

Yes they stack, and it's an interesting wizard to play: you get an extra spell for level, give up the ability to specialize and use all the immediate magic and other specialist ACF/ prestige classes requiring specialization. I'm playing an elven generalist (necromancy, for fluff reasons) domain wizard and I'd say that it is powerful but nothing terribly cheesy; at least if you keep it reasonable.


I know. I just like Eidetic Spellcaster.

Using that too, and I love it: my elven wizard likes to mess with his enemies and he always carries a couple of personal journals of his studies written in rarely known languages on which he always casts Magic Aura to make it look like they are magically protected spellbooks.

[Thurbane]

It's a shame Domain Wizards can't specialize in Necromancy...

http://i67.tinypic.com/2hns9bn.png

[Crake]

Yes, it unambiguously stacks with Elven Generalist.
One drops the ability to specialise, one (DW) says that you cannot specialise.

I usually go for Storm Domain myself. Got a whole bunch of decent spells, and control winds is sweet.

That is far from unambiguous. One could very much say that losing the ability to specialize, and being unable to specialize are simply different ways of saying the same thing. After all, if you cannot choose an option, then it ceases to be an option.

[DarkSoul]

A strict reading of UA actually shows that Domain wizards are a variant wizard, rather than being an ACF or substitution level. They're in two different sections of the book. Based on that, the case could be made that domain wizards never have the ability to specialize in a school at all, and therefore have nothing to trade away for Elven Generalist. Alternately it could be argued that becoming a generalist costs a domain wizard their domain, because domain wizards DO specialize in something.

Either way, it's a long way from "unambiguously stacking".

[CozJa]

It's a shame Domain Wizards can't specialize in Necromancy...

the necromancy domain... but you're right, I wasn't clear :smallbiggrin: