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Xiander
2012-02-07, 08:46 AM
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb380/scenario3/teddybears.jpg

Seeing this, in the Demotivator thread on the general role-playing sub forum, instantly made me want a system tailor made for playing Teddy bears and dolls which defend innocent children from the monster under the bed (or in the closet if you prefer).

I could just work out something myself, but i would really like to tab into the creativeness of the playground to make sure this becomes as awesome as i would like it to be.

What i would like the system to be:

- A game describing how unlikely heroes can beat impossible odds through Bravery, Cunning and friendship.

- A horror game with a twist of whatever it is that makes children stories about living toys so special.

- Focused on the toys, not the children, though the children should of course play some role.


My own thoughts this far:

- I have thought about making Bravery, Cunning and Friendship actual stats in the system. Possibly resource stats like willpower in World of darkness.

-There is a bond between a child and its favorite toy, this bond is different from child to child. I would love to let the nature of a characters bond to his owner have actual system effects.

- I like the idea of making the game night focused. The monsters come out at night, so that is when the heroes wake to protect their charges.

-There is a world of monsters and horror, the entrance is under the bed, in the closet or in any shadow deep enough. Sometimes the brave protagonist will have to enter this world to make sure it does not threaten their loved children.

- There should be a reason that only children are in danger.



That is all i have come up with yet. Now I would like any input you can give me, be it cool original ideas or suggestion for existing systems which can be redone to support what I envision. Any help is appreciated :smallsmile:





Edit: what is above here is my original post left untouched. The spoiler below holds everything we have discussed and decided until now.




Eyes and teeth in darkness gleaming
While you lie asleep and dreaming
Monsters underneath the bed
Come to feed on fear and dread

Unnamed terrors in the night
Ghosts and ghouls and things that bite
Darkness lends your fears form
Nightmares all around you swarm

Yet sleeping children need not fear
For we, your staunchest knights are here
Standing firm 'gainst horrors vile
Sanctuary for every child

Tirelessly we vigil keep
Guardians of your peaceful sleep
Ghosts will touch not hide nor hair
While we remain - your teddybears

setting intro poem by Heliomance


Terms

Guardians:
The brave toys defending their children from the horrors of the night. (generally these will be plushy toys, but there is nor hard rule against other types of toys)
(Imaginary friends may be included later.


Horrors:
The antagonists. Monsters formed of darkness and imagination, come to take all the energy they can from the hapless children.
They come in all sizes and shapes, but always take frightening forms and always hunger for Imagination.



Stats

Bravery:
This is the hit-point stat. Being hit by a monsters attack, or scared by its terrifying roar will drain your bravery. When you run out you are to afraid to fight.
Some abilities might have a bravery cost to activate.
Actual physical damage is unlikely to be a big factor, but it might be incorporated in some form.


Friendship:
The “mana” stat. Friendship will power most abilities. Some roles may also be able to spend friendship to gain certain advantages.
Perhaps we could come up with something every Guardian could spend friendship on. Is this necessary?


Imagination:
This will function as XP, but also be usable to influence the narrative more directly. The uses we have discussed are:
Increase your characters' stats or attain new roles or abilities.
Spend to alter the scene to include something specific, or to influence yet unmentioned details. (for example, spending imagination to decide that there is a mirror on the inside of the closet door.)
Possibly, some abilities will be fuelled by this. If so they will be rare and powerful.



Power/agility/smarts
These will be the abilities used to determine success or failure at any given task. The mechanic will be something like this: Any time your character takes an action which might fail or succeed depending on his skill, one of these are chosen to govern the activity (power for lifting and pushing stuff, agility for coordination based activities and smarts for any mental activity). The player then rolls a number of d6 equal to his stat (possibly with a bonus for any role fitting the action). 5 and 6 gives a success, the GM decides how many successes are needed to succeed based on the difficulty of the task.



Traits
Each character has three traits, which describe his physical appearance, and any special boons granted by his shape. Typically a trait will be positive, but at times it might be a hindrance (for example, a very big toy has an easier time reaching stuff and looking around, but will be hindered if he needs to pass through a narrow passage.
This is basically our take on races. Races in the for seen in DND is not going to be part of this game.



Roles
These describe what roles the toy takes in the games of his child. It is possible to have any number of roles, but one role is designated the primary role, and gives an extra benefit.
All roles gives access to abilities linked to the role in question (my take is that every point In a role gives one ability linked to the role. Abilities will be stronger the more points you have in their linked role, but abilities linked to the same role, will tend towards the same effects, giving a reason to branch out. A role might also give bonuses to some actions which fit the role particularly well.
Roles are out take on the concept of classes, classes in the DND sense will not be part of this game.


Character creation

25 points to be distributed on bravery, friendship, power, agility and smarts. Each point buys 2 bravery or friendship or 1 power/agility/smarts.
Three traits, chosen freely.
Three points distributed between no less than two roles. (This is a suggestion, up for discussion).




Antagonist stats

Horors will be represented by the dificulty of avoiding their attacks, hitting them or interacting with them. I essence the stats of any horror will be a number of difficulties, which the players roll against when dealing with the horror.
We have also discussed the possibility of giving the horrors a trio of stats similar to bravery/friendship/imagination. Best suggestion yet is Fear/viciousness/imagination.




If you disgree with anything in the spoiler or have something to add, speak up. I have filled it in by memory, and I know i probably forgot something.

Heliomance
2012-02-07, 10:10 AM
The trouble with the bond idea is that it implies that each toy belongs to a different child. In my opinion, it makes far more sense for all the characters to belong to a single child - otherwise why would they be in the same bedroom together? And if they're not together, then you don't really have a party, you have a bunch of individuals with no relation to each other.

Also, the soul and centre of the setting should be this famous quote:


Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed.

Mild horror, maybe, but the overall feeling should be one of hope and triumphing over the darkness.

Eyes and teeth in darkness gleaming
While you lie asleep and dreaming
Monsters underneath the bed
Come to feed on fear and dread

Tirelessly we vigil keep
Guardians of your peaceful sleep
Ghosts will touch not hide nor hair
While we remain - your teddybears

Xiander
2012-02-07, 10:26 AM
The trouble with the bond idea is that it implies that each toy belongs to a different child. In my opinion, it makes far more sense for all the characters to belong to a single child - otherwise why would they be in the same bedroom together? And if they're not together, then you don't really have a party, you have a bunch of individuals with no relation to each other.

I thought of that. I recognize it as a problem, and i see several possible solutions.

1) Drop the bond. This is the simplest, but also sacrifices some flavor.

2)Each toy has a bond to the same child. Different bonds for different toys, perhaps based on what role the child has given the specific toy. Watch toystory for inspiration.

3) Siblings. Might take a little more work but nothing prevents there from being more children in the same house, or even the same room.

4) The same underbed dimension which gives the monsters acces might give the Heroes an opportunity to meet and work together, even if they live in separate bedrooms in separate houses.

Personally I am torn about these options, I would like for the mechanics to be simple, but it feels thematically correct to give the heroes a reason to care for the children.

In the end I guess it depends on whether this should be a "were all on the same toy shelf here"-style of game. Alternatively it could be shaped as mor of an "unlikely heroes and unexpected friends" game.

As said I am torn, but open for suggestions.




Mild horror, maybe, but the overall feeling should be one of hope and triumphing over the darkness.

Eyes and teeth in darkness gleaming
While you lie asleep and dreaming
Monsters underneath the bed
Come to feed on fear and dread

Tirelessly we vigil keep
Guardians of your peaceful sleep
Ghosts will touch not hide nor hair
While we remain, your teddybears

I cannot agree strongly enough with this sentiment.

Heliomance
2012-02-07, 10:56 AM
So, I wrote the setting intro ^^

Eyes and teeth in darkness gleaming
While you lie asleep and dreaming
Monsters underneath the bed
Come to feed on fear and dread

Unnamed terrors in the night
Ghosts and ghouls and things that bite
Darkness lends your fears form
Nightmares all around you swarm

Yet sleeping children need not fear
For we, your staunchest knights are here
Standing firm 'gainst horrors vile
Sanctuary for every child

Tirelessly we vigil keep
Guardians of your peaceful sleep
Ghosts will touch not hide nor hair
While we remain - your teddybears

Tanuki Tales
2012-02-07, 11:01 AM
Have you ever read the graphic novel series called Stuff of Legends by any chance?

Xiander
2012-02-07, 11:03 AM
Have you ever read the graphic novel series called Stuff of Legends by any chance?

Nope? Worth a peek?

Tanuki Tales
2012-02-07, 11:05 AM
Nope? Worth a peek?

Definitely. It concerns a group of toys (specifically a Teddy Bear) going to fight a strange evil to protect their boy while he sleeps.

Balain
2012-02-07, 11:05 AM
I like the bond with the child, and it gives some sort of game effect.

You could leave how each teddy bear party is formed to each GM, with various possible examples. like, one child many toys, each teddy bear meets in land uner the bed, siblings, etc.

SamBurke
2012-02-07, 11:13 AM
BADASS in the most adorable way. I will follow this eagerly, and post a few ideas later.

Tingel
2012-02-07, 11:19 AM
There was an rpg where you play teddy bears that was released in Germany about 15 years ago. It's called Plüsch, Power & Plunder.


I really like that "demotivator" picture.

Xiander
2012-02-07, 11:29 AM
A taste of what I imagine the protagonists will be up against. (this is one of the weakest and most common foes, I imagine):

Unwelcome visitors: The nightmares

These are some of the most common horrors, which might emerge from under you bed or from the shadows outside your window. No child comes of age without having at least one visit from a nightmare.
While most nightmares are small and not particularly harmful, they are all frightening and malicious in nature. They like nothing more than screams an sobbing, and so they usually only scare children enough to make them make these noises, which the nightmares then hungrily ingest.
Children never see the nightmares, but to the watchful guardian, they look like creeping shadows, often sporting glowing red eyes or gleaming, sharp teeth.
Nightmares are physically weak, but devilishly clever. They favour traps and foul play over direct confrontations, and will almost only fight if backed into a corner, with no other way of escaping.

Powers:
Get inside your mind; A nightmare which comes upon a sleeping or otherwise helpless person, can creep into his mind through the mouth, ears or even the nose. Once inside the nightmare can cause hallucinations, which will be seen as bad dream by the nightmare infested child. A nightmare will typically torment a child with evil visions until the nightmare has satisfied it's thirst for screams, and then move on.

Weaknesses:
Nightmares like all horrors are weak to sunlight. But for nightmares the weakness does not stop there. Any source of clear white light repels the nightmare. Naturally leaving the night-light on is the basic defence against these horrors.

Now for some questions:

1) Do we expect all players to be teddybears or are other toys also an option?

2) Should players have unique powers or should they have to rely only on their raw stats?

3) Are the player characters alone against the world, or can we dream up some allies, apart from the unknowing children they defend?

shaddy_24
2012-02-07, 12:51 PM
It could be where each different type of toy is a different "class," with abilities based on how children typically use them. Teddy bears would probably be the leader types, action figures more aggressive and dangerous, etc. I think that all their attacks should be some sort of magic; I can't see them being able to wield any actual weapons, so they rely on some sort of magic to make their toy weapons actually dangerous or similar.

Yitzi
2012-02-07, 01:08 PM
I'd second the "magic attacks" approach; it fits with the idea very well.

For basic combat mechanics, I'd say you probably should avoid the normal sort of hit points. Instead, most monsters are killed by one hit (but they come in sizable numbers.) Instead of more powerful attacks, more offensively powerful characters would have area-effect attacks (either via beams or more conventional ball-like areas.) There'd also be the opportunity for positive or negative enviromental effects (as per the night-light in the case of the example monster.)

Bosses would probably be different; rather than being killed by one hit, each boss has a specific weakness and the characters have to get that weakness applied (possibly via trickery.)

Characters would have a sort of "hit points" in terms of courage, with some more powerful monsters being able to frighten the characters directly. Such attacks always do courage damage, but more martial and "brave" characters have a higher courage value and something equivalent to DR (while more "leader" characters can provide healing-like effects as well as a DR aura.) Physical attacks are right out; after all, that sort of thing shows, and this is supposed to be a secret war.

Monsters are stupid, and humanoid dolls need a role, so trickery should be a possible approach for many threats.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-02-07, 01:16 PM
Bosses would probably be different; rather than being killed by one hit, each boss has a specific weakness and the characters have to get that weakness applied (possibly via trickery.)

Don't do this. You either get Legend of Zelda, where you might as well have made this a video game, or you get an impossible challenge that requires the ability to read the GM's mind.

The Bandicoot
2012-02-07, 02:01 PM
I like this idea a whole lot, though I don't have any ideas to add at the moment. The second I do though I'll post them here. Until then I'll just lurk and watch.

alchemyprime
2012-02-07, 02:14 PM
Consider the following "Races" of toys:
Action Figures - Made of flashy plastic, they have access to skills like "Alternate Form" and "Karate Action", they are easily one of the two bravest toys. Robots, superheroes, cowboys, police men, knights, they all fall under Action Figures. However, they are most likely to fall victim to the flaw of Gold Plastic Syndrome.
Baby Dolls - Known for being the quintessential girl's toy, they are not very brave, but do tend to have a stronger Bond to their child.
Block Men - These small cousins of the Miniature, they have the best ability of Imagination due to their connection to their blocks. When a Block Man is near blocks, he can do anything: in fact, as long as his head is intact he can change outfits my mixing and matching parts of bodies. They are the best Jack of All Trades for the toys.
Dinosaurs/Great Animals - A special classification of Action Figure, these are based on fierce beasts from years past. Be they mammals like Andrewsarchus or a gorilla, dinosaurs like Gigantosaurus Rex or Diplodicus, they are great to have around for the fierceness they show. Some are actually both Action Figures and Great Animals, being a dinosaur or beast that turns into a robot or is a robot.
Fashion Doll - When it comes to Outfit Powers, look no further! A fashion doll just needs to change her clothes and she has a new role in the party! Need a race car driver? A doctor? A dog walker? She's ready for anything!
Horsies - To dolls what Dinosaurs are to Action Figures, the Horsies are not only rides for other toys, they can be close friends. Some horsies can speak, some cannot. Some are magical unicorns or alicorns, some are flight ready pegasi, others are simple horses, but they are all fast friends for any toy or child who will accept them.
Miniature - The toys of bigger kids normally, this includes the Smurfs Schnilts, those cute little orange gnomes, Troll Ogre dolls with their crazy hair, and army men, as well as role-playing minis. Their small size means they can reach places only matched by the Block Men, and they tend to have the powers of the things they are based on. These little guys are known for Cunning, normally being tied to strategy war-games or board games.
Plushies - Cloth filled with fluff, they tend to have the highest Friendship scores and have a certain optimism to them all. Bunnies, doggies, kitties, they all are Plushies, and the most recognizable, and the leader of the Plushies are...
Teddy Bears - Named for President Theodore Roosevelt, teddy bears seem to have absorbed some of his courage. They are amazing inspirational leaders and have amazing Friendship and Bravery scores. Teddy Bears are known to fight right alongside action figures, grab a stethoscope to help Doctor Outfitted Fashion Dolls and Block Men, and then get their little swords made of toy blocks or wood and rally the troops against beasts from the Nightmare Realms.

And a special race

Invisible Not-So-Imaginary-Friend - Sometimes, when the daylight hits a Nightmare, it doesn't burn up. It doesn't die. The Grown Ups can't see these friends, as their Imaginations are normally too low, but these Nightmares see the day, they see the child there were sent to scare or kill and realize "This is why the toys fight us... who could harm such a sweet creature?" This revelation, called a Turning by toys and Going Native by the Nightmares, turns a Nightmare into one of the staunchest defenders of children, the Invisible Friend.

Maquise
2012-02-07, 02:21 PM
This looks very interesting. I'm watching this.

SamBurke
2012-02-07, 02:24 PM
I got chills, sir, when I read that last one.

BAD. ASS. TOYS.

Personally, I would avoid "hidden weakness" things a ton: people hate riddles. If it's obvious (IE, being made of salt, telling people to keep water away from them), then I *guess* that'd be OK. Personally I think trickery would be better, and some sort of epic speech/loyalty power system.

Yitzi
2012-02-07, 02:35 PM
Personally, I would avoid "hidden weakness" things a ton: people hate riddles. If it's obvious (IE, being made of salt, telling people to keep water away from them), then I *guess* that'd be OK. Personally I think trickery would be better, and some sort of epic speech/loyalty power system.

I see I wasn't clear. I wasn't really thinking of a hidden weakness, but rather a weakness that's hard to pull off (e.g. perhaps the monster is invulnerable to attack, but if it can't see its target for a certain amount of time it fades away into nothingness.)

DracoDei
2012-02-07, 03:00 PM
I know a few games and other resources that would work to draw inspiration from...

Fuzzy Heroes (http://www.fuzzyheroes.com/catalog.php):
Started out as fantasy wargaming with children's toys (and meant for children to play with eachother or their parents). Latest edition (which I own) added roleplay rules and simplified the language so that the kids could actually READ the rulebook instead of having their parents explain it to them. A marvelous idea, but not EXACTLY what you are going for. Some of the supplements may add some world-building you could springboard off of.

Monsters and Other Childish Things:
Pairs children with Lovecraftian horrors as their "imaginary friends". As I hear it, the children can be anything from targets/authorities over the monsters to the ones who need to protect the monsters from the mad scientists who want to dissect them, depending on the scenario. Sample for game-master equivalents (http://www.arcdream.com/pdf/monsters-quick.pdf) PDF download (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=521&products_id=82651&filters=0_0_0_0&manufacturers_id=521&affiliate_id=48458)

Little Fears:
Just going to LINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Fears) to the wikipedia page.

Puppet Land (http://johntynes.com/revland2000/rl_puppetland_www.html):
Children are probably completely absent from this game, but given that it is about Pinocchio-like puppets, and the highest goal for a "good" character would be to use the last tear that fell from the eyes of the Maker when a traitorous puppet killed him to bring him back to life, I am seeing certain similarities. Link seems to go to the full rules, as posted by the owner.


Other stuff:
Monsters Inc. (of course)

Little Monsters (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LittleMonsters)(Rent it or something?) No animate toys, but the main non-human character is very close to your definition of an imaginary friend. Light is a weapon, and sawing the legs off your bed so that the monsters under it can't get you is a valid tactic. The portals to the "under-bed" are only open at night. Relates to "Little Fears" in that I have described it to a guy who just finished running a "Little Fears" game as an Epic Level campaign of "Little Fears" (IE one in which you can actually kill one of the seven big bads).

Irrational Fears (http://www.webcomicsnation.com/uvernon/irrationalfears/series.php?view=archive&chapter=787&mpe=1&fromwhich=4&direction=f) Free webcomic (now complete... at least for the moment), second chapter*, leads to the second of the two chapters, which concerns an venture to track down the monster under the bed. The only piece of equipment our hero takes along is a blanket to hide under (since that is assured protection from said monster). She meets Dustbunnies, which the monsters prey on. Did I mention this is by Ursula Vernon (author of Digger and Dragon Breath) and the main character is a Chupacarbra?
*Which I HOPE the link will take you to. If not, then page forward through the intro and the first chapter (which I think is about 3 or 4 pages long).


Don't do this. You either get Legend of Zelda, where you might as well have made this a video game, or you get an impossible challenge that requires the ability to read the GM's mind.
It can be hard to pull off correctly (I have had personal experience with how hard), but it is NOT impossible. Research and leg-work (while running away) are key.

Xiander
2012-02-07, 03:07 PM
So, I wrote the setting intro ^^

Eyes and teeth in darkness gleaming
While you lie asleep and dreaming
Monsters underneath the bed
Come to feed on fear and dread

Unnamed terrors in the night
Ghosts and ghouls and things that bite
Darkness lends your fears form
Nightmares all around you swarm

Yet sleeping children need not fear
For we, your staunchest knights are here
Standing firm 'gainst horrors vile
Sanctuary for every child

Tirelessly we vigil keep
Guardians of your peaceful sleep
Ghosts will touch not hide nor hair
While we remain - your teddybears


You wrote this yourself?
It seems oddly familiar. But at any rate, I love it!


It could be where each different type of toy is a different "class," with abilities based on how children typically use them. Teddy bears would probably be the leader types, action figures more aggressive and dangerous, etc. I think that all their attacks should be some sort of magic; I can't see them being able to wield any actual weapons, so they rely on some sort of magic to make their toy weapons actually dangerous or similar.

While I agree that the wooden sword on the picture in itself should not be very threatening, I don't know if i want to stamp "magic" on every effective strategy.


I'd second the "magic attacks" approach; it fits with the idea very well.

For basic combat mechanics, I'd say you probably should avoid the normal sort of hit points. Instead, most monsters are killed by one hit (but they come in sizable numbers.) Instead of more powerful attacks, more offensively powerful characters would have area-effect attacks (either via beams or more conventional ball-like areas.) There'd also be the opportunity for positive or negative enviromental effects (as per the night-light in the case of the example monster.)

I don't really agree with this. I want Horrors (the name i use for the bad things) to be diverse and interesting. While the nightmares I used as an example probably should go down after one or two hits, i also want ogres, snake-monsters and even dragons, who should be much tougher.

Also, I do not want a game about teddy-bears with fireballs and lasers, even if they are magical. So I would like to avoid to many blast-attacks, unless they really make sense.


Bosses would probably be different; rather than being killed by one hit, each boss has a specific weakness and the characters have to get that weakness applied (possibly via trickery.)

I intend to give all monsters weaknesses. As mentioned in the example text, sunlight is bad for all Horrors. But all horrors should have other weaknesses as well. However, I do want everything to be beatable without exploiting weaknesses, only weaknesses make it easier. (Not necessarily easy, just easier).


Characters would have a sort of "hit points" in terms of courage, with some more powerful monsters being able to frighten the characters directly. Such attacks always do courage damage, but more martial and "brave" characters have a higher courage value and something equivalent to DR (while more "leader" characters can provide healing-like effects as well as a DR aura.) Physical attacks are right out; after all, that sort of thing shows, and this is supposed to be a secret war.

Monsters are stupid, and humanoid dolls need a role, so trickery should be a possible approach for many threats.

I like courage or bravery as the hitpoint stat. I am thinking about making bravery a resource you can expend to avoid having to retreat. The idea is that death is not a big part of the game, instead loosing a battle means retreating or cowering with fear and letting the baddies do what they want.

The second stat I am considering is indeed the trickery stat. Wits i am thinking, possibly cunning. I would like to make it a resource to be expented in order to get ideas or make plans... I don't want to make it to restrictive. Nothing like: you cannot think if you cannot expend a point of cunning. But something like: If you spend a point of cunning the ledge and big rock you need for your plan happen to be nearby...

Third is the friendship stat (thinking about calling it Heart). I don't know exactly how to use this, but the idea is to use it to calm and encourage others... Ideas are welcome.


Don't do this. You either get Legend of Zelda, where you might as well have made this a video game, or you get an impossible challenge that requires the ability to read the GM's mind.

While I like the idea of weaknesses, I am well aware that these two extremes should be avoided.


Cool stuff!

I like a lot of these ideas. Especially i like your descriptions of teddies and imaginary friends.
I would like to include a lot of this in some form, please keep on giving these sort of ideas :smallsmile:


I see I wasn't clear. I wasn't really thinking of a hidden weakness, but rather a weakness that's hard to pull off (e.g. perhaps the monster is invulnerable to attack, but if it can't see its target for a certain amount of time it fades away into nothingness.)

I like these sort of weaknesses. And i really want to implement weaknesses in some form. It sort of seems fitting to me that some gruesome monsters areso tough that you need to cheat to get to them.
Also I like the thought of having to travel into the dark realms to discover the weakness of the Dragon Draubnir who has set his mind on devouring little Emma.

Admiral Squish
2012-02-07, 03:43 PM
Okay, for some reason it didn't post the first time...

I think the baddies should be difficult, but not quite impossible to defeat in the traditional fashion. The thing I really want to emphasize is the fact that you're fighting big, scary monsters, things that eat adults for breakfast, and you're tiny. You should be easy to throw around, but tough to really do DAMAGE to. You can only really win by being clever, quick, and brave.

Also, I like bravery as HP, but not quite enough for it to be the only source. Maybe there's bravery as your main HP, which can be restored by your friends and other such abilities, and an actual HP score which is about how tough your toy is physically, and can only be fixed by the child or their parents. Lose all your actual HP, and you're dead forever. Bravery returns over time.

Also, I'm thinking race/class should be based on the kind of toy and how the toy is played with. Like, an action figure is more likely going to be a fighter, but if the child plays with it, pretending it's a doctor, he's going to be more of a medic-type character.

Symmys
2012-02-07, 03:54 PM
No love for the porcelain doll? They could make good casters.


I think that all their attacks should be some sort of magic; I can't see them being able to wield any actual weapons, so they rely on some sort of magic to make their toy weapons actually dangerous or similar.
I'd like to disagree with this idea. Magic is all well and good, but I don't think it should be necessary just to make 'normal' attacks work. Looking at this from a childlike perspective, it doesn't matter if the sword is made of wood, because it's still a sword, and that's what matters.


What other kinds of monsters might there be? Just to throw some names out there- ghosties, ghoulies, creepies, and spookies. From a rhyme I used to say, when I was a kid.

SamBurke
2012-02-07, 04:06 PM
I'd say as whimsical as possible: magic and laser beams isn't whimsical, it's fantasy.

When you're a kid, you *could* equip your toys with fireballs and cannons and stuff. I know I did. And when they used a fireball, things. WENT. GOOD-BYE. Forever....

So I have no real idea how weapons would work. Maybe three categories? (Magic/Ranged/Melee...)

Xiander
2012-02-07, 04:32 PM
I'd say as whimsical as possible: magic and laser beams isn't whimsical, it's fantasy.

When you're a kid, you *could* equip your toys with fireballs and cannons and stuff. I know I did. And when they used a fireball, things. WENT. GOOD-BYE. Forever....

So I have no real idea how weapons would work. Maybe three categories? (Magic/Ranged/Melee...)

I don't really know how to deal with weapons and attack. But I fell that maybe standing and fighting should not be the go-to response. I would rather see the cute guardians protect the children against much stronger opponents through wit and bravery. This leaves me to think that fireballs and lasers might not fit the theme of the game.

Yitzi
2012-02-07, 04:46 PM
I don't really agree with this. I want Horrors (the name i use for the bad things) to be diverse and interesting. While the nightmares I used as an example probably should go down after one or two hits, i also want ogres, snake-monsters and even dragons, who should be much tougher.

Ok.


Also, I do not want a game about teddy-bears with fireballs and lasers, even if they are magical. So I would like to avoid to many blast-attacks, unless they really make sense.

The example I was thinking of is a futuristic action figure with some sort of laser; obviously, most characters won't have that sort of thing.


I like courage or bravery as the hitpoint stat. I am thinking about making bravery a resource you can expend to avoid having to retreat. The idea is that death is not a big part of the game, instead loosing a battle means retreating or cowering with fear and letting the baddies do what they want.

That was the idea I had in mind; when out of courage, you run away. As I said, physical damage doesn't really make sense if you want this to be going on without the children and their parents knowing.


Third is the friendship stat (thinking about calling it Heart). I don't know exactly how to use this, but the idea is to use it to calm and encourage others... Ideas are welcome.

Maybe spend it to fuel "class" abilities that restore or boost the stats of allies.

SamBurke
2012-02-07, 04:46 PM
I don't really know how to deal with weapons and attack. But I fell that maybe standing and fighting should not be the go-to response. I would rather see the cute guardians protect the children against much stronger opponents through wit and bravery. This leaves me to think that fireballs and lasers might not fit the theme of the game.

I totally agree... perhaps have a separate module or add-on rules or something for action figures...

I'd limit the basic game, if no rockets and stuff like that, to stuffed animals and similar toys.

Xiander
2012-02-07, 05:05 PM
I totally agree... perhaps have a separate module or add-on rules or something for action figures...

I'd limit the basic game, if no rockets and stuff like that, to stuffed animals and similar toys.

My first thought was actually teddybears and simple cloth dolls. Not that i want to discard all other sorts of toys, but theme is very important to me, and so I think we need to consider exactly how broad an assembly of toys we want to be fighting the baddies.

Gensh
2012-02-07, 05:17 PM
My first thought was actually teddybears and simple cloth dolls. Not that i want to discard all other sorts of toys, but theme is very important to me, and so I think we need to consider exactly how broad an assembly of toys we want to be fighting the baddies.

Perhaps separate the different types of toys into entirely separate books like White Wolf? Go ahead and get the game running with just stuffed animals (perhaps limited to those from Winnie the Pooh, for example) then once you've got the game running the way you want it, do additional releases by character type. Have a book dedicatd to describing how it's different being an action figure than a teddy bear - you're made of hard plastic and not quite so huggable, not to mention that your child is more likely to be an older boy, rather than just anyone, as is the case for teddies.

Absol197
2012-02-07, 05:33 PM
My first thought was actually teddybears and simple cloth dolls. Not that i want to discard all other sorts of toys, but theme is very important to me, and so I think we need to consider exactly how broad an assembly of toys we want to be fighting the baddies.

I actually think that this is the right call. I remember my most cherished toy from my childhood - a stuffed dragon named Flappy; my sister had a stuffed lamb named Lamby; just about everyone I know who has shared their childhood protector with me had a stuffed toy of some kind. I'm thinking that ther's something special, not just about those types of toys, but with the act of a parent giving it to their child. The parents give children these toys, because they subconsciously remember their own stuffed toys protecting them from the darkness.

Trying to get down to actual mechanics, the most important part is the system base. There are a bunch of options, but I think (as I believe has been suggested) that, for a game like this, simple is better.

Some options are:
d20 + other dice: Basically the D&D system.
Sole d20: Only use d20s.

Serenity: Like the Serenity roleplaying game, instead of having a number for your stats and skills (like Strength 16), you have a die size (like Strength d10). Total results are ability + skill added together.

d10: There are two ways to do this, either a success base (like World of Darkness) or by actual value (the numerical result).

d6: I've never actually read a d6 system, so I don't know how they work, but I know they're out there. If someone with a bit more knowledge could come forward, I think we'd all appreciate it.

Fate: Probably similar to d6, but you have two dice, with the sides -, -, 0, 0, +, and +, you add them together to get results of -2 to +2.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm of the opinion that a success-based system would work best. We could go with something like the World of Darkness, but I actually want to try seeing if I can come up with something like a combination of Serenity and WoD. I think it might work well.

As for the "HP" discussion, something like Mutants and Masterminds might work well; the gist is that you don't actually have a "Health" stat, instead you essentially make saves whenever you are hurt, and the more saves you fail, the harder it becomes to make more saves, until you fail by a certain amount.

Hopefully that's some food for thought. I like this idea, I will be participating!

Copper
2012-02-07, 07:31 PM
One of the allies of the stuffed animals could be the house's pets. They could ride dogs and cat into battle or something. That'd be pretty badass. An interesting mechanic could be to add in the age of the toy's child. As the child gets older, the toy could get more power but less of a bond as a result of the child growing up.
In general the child's personality could effect some of the toy's powers.

Also if you get some badass My Little Ponies in there, I will love you forever.

Heliomance
2012-02-07, 07:54 PM
I'd agree with the idea that we should focus on teddies and other soft toys. Probably not bother with different types having different abilities - bedtime toys are the only ones that have those connotations of guardians against the dark, for me, and there aren't really that many hard distinctions that can be made between types of soft toy.

I think imagination and ideas should be very important. It doesn't matter that a wooden sword is made of wood and can't hurt anything. What matters is that it carries the idea of "sword", the idea of power. The teddies can stand against the darkness because their child believes they can.

Incidentally, my protector of choice was an elephant imaginatively named Elephant.

Melayl
2012-02-08, 06:10 AM
One of the allies of the stuffed animals could be the house's pets. They could ride dogs and cat into battle or something. That'd be pretty badass. An interesting mechanic could be to add in the age of the toy's child. As the child gets older, the toy could get more power but less of a bond as a result of the child growing up.
In general the child's personality could effect some of the toy's powers.

Also if you get some badass My Little Ponies in there, I will love you forever.

Not just the age of the child, but also the age of the toy itsself. Think about a teddybear or other stuffed toy handed down from parent to child... I'd think that was a major power in such a universe.

Also, I absolutely love this idea. I would love to play this with my kids if you can get it worked out.

This also reminds me of a Mercedes Lackey short story I read. I'll have to try to find it (it was free online from Baen) and link it.

Xiander
2012-02-08, 06:29 AM
I actually think that this is the right call. I remember my most cherished toy from my childhood - a stuffed dragon named Flappy; my sister had a stuffed lamb named Lamby; just about everyone I know who has shared their childhood protector with me had a stuffed toy of some kind. I'm thinking that ther's something special, not just about those types of toys, but with the act of a parent giving it to their child. The parents give children these toys, because they subconsciously remember their own stuffed toys protecting them from the darkness.


Also if you get some badass My Little Ponies in there, I will love you forever.



I'd agree with the idea that we should focus on teddies and other soft toys. Probably not bother with different types having different abilities - bedtime toys are the only ones that have those connotations of guardians against the dark, for me, and there aren't really that many hard distinctions that can be made between types of soft toy.

I think imagination and ideas should be very important. It doesn't matter that a wooden sword is made of wood and can't hurt anything. What matters is that it carries the idea of "sword", the idea of power. The teddies can stand against the darkness because their child believes they can.

Incidentally, my protector of choice was an elephant imaginatively named Elephant.

I have been thinking a lot about this. And these comments made me realize something: It does not make sense to base statistics heavily on the type of toy. The distinction between teddy bears and action figures seems like something we should quantify and make classes out of, but I think that it is a trap.
My reasoning is this: Teddy bears and plush toys are not all alike. At times two teddy bears can be as different as a teddy and an action figure.

My Idea for a solution is to drop the class/race line of thought completely and instead let each player define his own guardian from scratch. The text will focus on soft and plushy toys, but I see no reason to forbid people from playing action figures, barbie, my little ponies or even toy cars, if it makes sense for their game.

What I am envisioning is that each player choose three traits to describe the physical nature of their Guardian. I will probably write up a list of suggestions, and ideas are welcome, but in the end anything should be viable.
The idea is that each trait should give some bonuses to certain undertakings, or allow the guardian to do stuff others might not be able to do.

Example traits:
Big: The average toy is small enough to rest in the hand of the child and be carried without being cumbersome. A Guardian with this trait is substantially bigger than that. It might be able to reach tables or lift things like flashlights and broomsticks with relative ease. Other benefits of size apply as well.

Limbless: Your limbs and extremities are not missing, but they are very soft and bendy. As a result you can be rolled into a ball, squeezed through narrow passages and perform other feats of flexibility which might hurt other Guardians.

Plastic skin: You are tough! Even the meanest horrors wil have a hard time actually causing damage to you.

Another idea is to do something like this with personality. Give some traits or roles which your Guardian has been "given" by his child. If a teddy bear always plays the hero when the child is making believe, acting heroic might come naturally. If the Action figure is a doctor he might be better at healing and comfort. If the Piggy bank is an evil genius, clever schemes probably come naturally to him.



Trying to get down to actual mechanics, the most important part is the system base. There are a bunch of options, but I think (as I believe has been suggested) that, for a game like this, simple is better.

Some options are:
d20 + other dice: Basically the D&D system.
Sole d20: Only use d20s.

Serenity: Like the Serenity roleplaying game, instead of having a number for your stats and skills (like Strength 16), you have a die size (like Strength d10). Total results are ability + skill added together.

d10: There are two ways to do this, either a success base (like World of Darkness) or by actual value (the numerical result).

d6: I've never actually read a d6 system, so I don't know how they work, but I know they're out there. If someone with a bit more knowledge could come forward, I think we'd all appreciate it.

Fate: Probably similar to d6, but you have two dice, with the sides -, -, 0, 0, +, and +, you add them together to get results of -2 to +2.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm of the opinion that a success-based system would work best. We could go with something like the World of Darkness, but I actually want to try seeing if I can come up with something like a combination of Serenity and WoD. I think it might work well.

As for the "HP" discussion, something like Mutants and Masterminds might work well; the gist is that you don't actually have a "Health" stat, instead you essentially make saves whenever you are hurt, and the more saves you fail, the harder it becomes to make more saves, until you fail by a certain amount.

Hopefully that's some food for thought. I like this idea, I will be participating!

Okay, lets look at dice first. I have been musing about making a dice-less system, but that type of system easily becomes weird to play.
Instead I think I would like to have one simple universal resolution mechanic, which will be used for everything.

I am torn between the simplicity of having a single type of die and the distinctive style of serenity-like system, where stats are measured as dice sizes.

Success based systems have pros and cons. The pro is that it is easier to estimate how well you did by counting successes (Ten successes! I must really have hit something sore). The main con is that success systems are often dice-pool systems, and world of darkness has taught me that calculating dice-pools can be complicated and time-consuming.
That said, the idea of a cross between Serenity and WoD intrigues me. I would like to see what that looks like.


Your take on hit-points hits rather close to something I have been considering. My general idea is that when a Guardian runs out of bravery to keep him safe he will have to roll to avoid being hurt (Spending bravery points is of course optional, if you think you can make the roll, you can opt to do that even while you have bravery left over), If the roll fails the Guardian receives a tear or break. When you receive your third tear or break... it's over.
The idea is that repairing tears and breaks take sewing needles, glue or other stuff the Guardians are generally not in possession of.




One of the allies of the stuffed animals could be the house's pets. They could ride dogs and cat into battle or something. That'd be pretty badass. An interesting mechanic could be to add in the age of the toy's child. As the child gets older, the toy could get more power but less of a bond as a result of the child growing up.
In general the child's personality could effect some of the toy's powers.



Not just the age of the child, but also the age of the toy itsself. Think about a teddybear or other stuffed toy handed down from parent to child... I'd think that was a major power in such a universe.


These things seem right to me, but I have a hard time figuring out how to incorporate them without risking everyone playing toy handed from mother to daughter through ten generations, because that's more powerful.

I want the brand new toy elephant to be as valid a concept as the 30 year old teddy-bear with countless patches and only one button eye. Ideas for how to work this are very welcome.

Heliomance
2012-02-08, 08:06 AM
I think we should avoid physical damage entirely - as stated, the humans aren't supposed to know this war is going on. I do like the idea of bravery as hitpoints, and running out means you flee and hide rather than die.

Actually, we might do well to co-opt FATE's consequences mechanic. Run out of Bravery, you take a Consequence. That doesn't need to be physical damage, it can be something like having to live with the shame of running when your Child needed you the most.

As for experience and character advancement, the logical thing to use seems to be your Child's imagination. Think about it - a more imaginative Child is going to imbue their toys with greater strength - but they'll also be more vulnerable to nightmares, so stronger monsters will come sniffing round. It's an XP mechanic that actually justifies why you fight stronger things as you advance! And as your night-time activities influence their dreams, more active toys will naturally make a Child more imaginative. Works all round.

I agree that we should probably go classless. A point-buy system similar to WoD seems like a good idea, I think.


These things seem right to me, but I have a hard time figuring out how to incorporate them without risking everyone playing toy handed from mother to daughter through ten generations, because that's more powerful.

I want the brand new toy elephant to be as valid a concept as the 30 year old teddy-bear with countless patches and only one button eye. Ideas for how to work this are very welcome.

Easy - experience. The 30 year old teddy-bear with countless patches isn't a starting character, it's got 30 years worth of imagination (XP) under its fur.

Copper
2012-02-08, 05:15 PM
I like the idea of using Courage as hit points, but maybe instead of fleeing when they run out, maybe they start to fade away. You know those stuffed animals you lost at some point but never remember exactly when? That would be what happened after Fading.
Or maybe the toy becomes lifeless, like how we think of toys. So it's still physically there, but has no spirit left.

--Lime--
2012-02-08, 05:33 PM
This tickles me. I will be thinking about this in terms of Teddy Bears and Ragdolls. Action figures and LegoBlock men are interesting and I can see them having a place later on, but we should focus on getting a system before we start expanding it.

I'm going to be working some other stats in around Bravery, Imagination and Friendship. Size I think I'll work on as a "trait" like other well-known features you might find on these toys, like "patched-up", "missing eye", "hand-made by Mother" and the like.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-02-08, 05:40 PM
I like the idea of RPG miniatures as characters. These wouldn't be just any miniatures though, these would be the gamers' favorite miniatures, the ones they selected after sifting through boxes of them, and then had them handpainted to look just how they want.

Ajadea
2012-02-08, 05:42 PM
Perhaps each character gets to pick, say, 3 Physical Traits such as Big [think Hobbes], Plastic [some baby dolls have plastic heads, for example], or Wings [birds fly, and that's that], as well as some Emotional/Bond Traits such as Heroic (plays the part of a hero, so extra courage!), Old (the aforementioned ancient teddy bear), or Goes Everywhere (again, Hobbes).

Heliomance
2012-02-08, 05:47 PM
I like the idea of using Courage as hit points, but maybe instead of fleeing when they run out, maybe they start to fade away. You know those stuffed animals you lost at some point but never remember exactly when? That would be what happened after Fading.
Or maybe the toy becomes lifeless, like how we think of toys. So it's still physically there, but has no spirit left.

Ooh, I like those ideas. The second option means they will always be around as reminders of the price of failure - does that make the setting too bleak?

Xiander
2012-02-08, 05:48 PM
Perhaps each character gets to pick, say, 3 Physical Traits such as Big [think Hobbes], Plastic [some baby dolls have plastic heads, for example], or Wings [birds fly, and that's that], as well as some Emotional/Bond Traits such as Heroic (plays the part of a hero, so extra courage!), Old (the aforementioned ancient teddy bear), or Goes Everywhere (again, Hobbes).

This was pretty much my suggestion in my last post. Basically what I envision is that instead of a race you pick some physical traits, and instead of class you pick emotional/bond traits.




Or maybe the toy becomes lifeless, like how we think of toys. So it's still physically there, but has no spirit left.

I actually like this.

Additionally I would like to add a possibility for "straining", meaning you draw out your last resorts, gaining short term power at the risk of loosing the magic that animates you. This would give players possibility of winning the battle at the cost of their character. It would also play well on the theme of sacrificing yourself for something bigger or more real.


Ooh, I like those ideas. The second option means they will always be around as reminders of the price of failure - does that make the setting too bleak?

I don't think it makes it to bleak. Rather than seeing it as a reminder of the price of failure you could view it as a reminder that there is always someone willing to risk everything in the name of good.

Additionally; sacrifice is a powerful theme.

--Lime--
2012-02-08, 07:26 PM
So this is far from finished and I don't quite have combat worked out entirely in my head yet but I have a bit of a framework of how I see battles progressing. I want to keep things relatively simple but still have a level of decision making. I imagine all RP outside of combat to be almost entirely freeform; for example your DM (Dream Master) says if your teddy is tall enough to reach a ledge, or strong enough to push that heavy box out of the way, or if your light is bright enough to see down to the end of the tunnel.

edit: I realise that there is a lot of stuff here, and I by no means intend to take over the thread. I just got a wave of ideas and had to get them down somewhere. I also won't be working on it until Friday at the earliest so if you want to add/change/suggest then please do!

edit 2: I think I like the term Guardian more than Toy. Not entirely sure yet because of "parent/guardian" implications but Toy just isn't cutting it for me any more.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Eyes and teeth in darkness gleaming
While you lie asleep and dreaming
Monsters underneath the bed
Come to feed on fear and dread

Unnamed terrors in the night
Ghosts and ghouls and things that bite
Darkness lends your fears form
Nightmares all around you swarm

Yet sleeping children need not fear
For we, your staunchest knights are here
Standing firm 'gainst horrors vile
Sanctuary for every child

Tirelessly we vigil keep
Guardians of your peaceful sleep
Ghosts will touch not hide nor hair
While we remain - your teddybears

Imagination. Bravery. Friendship. These are what toys' lives depend on. These are what keep you safe at night. These are what keep the nightmares at bay...

In the bedroom of Lucas and Anja, a seven-year-old boy and his five-year old sister, the toys are more than just playthings. Every night, they venture into the relams of the Dreamworld, keeping their children sleeping peacefully.

Teddy, Rags the doll, the imaginary guests at tea-parties and the other soft toys can all find themselves fighting for the dream these children deserve. Monsters in the wardrobe, the shadows in the corners, and the ominous presence of the Something under the bed all offer ways into the Dreamworld where not all is as it seems, and everything is at stake for the toys.

--------------------------------------------

Mechanics:
2d6, one dice red, one dice white.
In some circumstances, the Red dice will be the 10s, the White will be the 1s ("Roll separately"). Other times, you will simply need to add Red and White together for a cumulative score ("Roll Together").

Monsters inflict various status effects, ranging from knocking you down or sweeping you aside to inflicting Fear (Reduces your Bravery), Maturity (Reduces your Imagination) and Fickleness (Reduces your Friendship). Vanquishing these monsters is the reward in itself, but sometimes particularly eventful ones will strengthen the bond with your child, increasing Bravery, Imagination or Friendship upon their defeat.

Bravery (B), Friendship (F) and Imagination (i) are both your attack and your hit points. Running out of any of them removes you from the Dream. With no Bravery, you return to your child's bed to be near them - the protector becomes the one in need of protection. Running out of Friendship severs the bond between you and your child: in essence, you become forgotten about, and are likely to end up at the back of the big pile of soft toys atop the wardrobe. If your Imagination score reaches zero - the biggest worry for all toys - your child ceases to see you as real and having feelings, and you become lifeless and stiff: simply fur and stuffing as you were on the toy shop shelf.

Evasion is how well you dodge physical manifestation of attack. Accuracy is how likely your physical attack is to score a hit. Resiliance is a kind of damage-reduction for physical attack - it's what stops monsters ripping your stuffing out with brute force (i.e., reducing your Condition [hitpoints]). Every toy starts in pristene condition with 10 Condition points.

Ability bonuses are:
(ability score)-5
[so 7 Bravery would have a +2 Bravery bonus]

Monsters are many and varied but always belong to one of three classes: Bed, Closet and Shadow. Bed monsters tend to be the sort to reach out and grab you - hard on the attack. Closet monsters have their sturdy fortress to grow strong in, and will defend heavily. Shadow monsters are quick by nature and will be hard to either hit or avoid. But this is a generalisation: some Closet monsters are quicker than some of the larger Shadows, and some Shadow monsters prefer to be vicious than dexterous. Within each category are all kinds of monsters with all kinds of devious ways of turning dream to nightmare.

Monsters attack in many ways: most (but not all) monsters have some kind of physical attack while others specialise in forcing the character to make saves based on the BFi scores. Each of these can be important in a different way: while the BFi scores are used to attack or save (so damage to those can be tactically harmful before it is deadly) the damage dealt is sometimes temporary and sometimes regained by defeating a monster. (e.g. a monster might deal 2 points of Imagination and 1 point of Bravery damage during a battle, but on defeat it gives the characters +1 Imagination).

Condition damage is tactically less important but is much harder to restore in the Dreamworld. Thus while it doesn't matter if your Condition is 10 or 1 in terms of effect, to prevent your toy from being damaged beyond repair, you may wish to retire your character before a Dream is over. Toys may leave Dreams freely, but cannot re-enter them. If a toy has less than five Condition points at sunrise, Mother will mend it to 9 condition by the next evening. If a toy has more than five Condition points, the damage will not be noticed and the toy will have to enter that night's Dream with Condition damage.

Character creation:
To get scores for Friendship, Bravery and Imagination:
Roll Together Red and White, and add the dots.
These scores will be what defines your personality as a toy. Try to bear them in mind when making decisions about your toy's action.
Same for Evasion, Accuracy and Resiliance

Traits and Abilities:
Traits define your character: they are what separate toys from each other by more than numbers alone. Abilities are how the toy interacts with the Dreamworld: they may be able to brighten an area with their presence, conjure a sword to fight with, sew up a friend, or rally their allies in a time of Fear or Fickleness. In short, Traits are what your toy is, Abilities are what they can do. Sometimes these may overlap slightly (e.g., negate damage of a certain type once per Dream), but another way to view it is that Traits are passive, and Abilities are active.

Roll Separately a Trait and an Ability.
Traits:
1 1 - Brave: Driven by a strong sense of duty to your child, you get +1 to Bravery (B)
1 2 - Inspirational: There's just something about you that gives your child ideas for playtime. You get +1 to Imagination (i)
1 3 - Special: Your child sees you in a special way. Perhaps you were a gift from a near relative, or you were passed down from your child's grandparent. You get +1 to Friendship (F)
1 4 - Confidant: your child talks to you all the time as an equal. You instantly identify any monsters in the dark as you know what scares your child.
1 5 - Diverse: Your child includes you in many different games playing all sorts of roles. You may +1 to a category of your choice each Dream.
1 6 - Aware: To the other toys, it seems that at times you define yourself more than your child defines you. +2 and -1 to any categories of your choice (can be same category, e.g. +2B, -1B)
2 1 - Unloved: Your child plays with you sometimes, but you are often forgotten about. Far from being discouraged, you work harder to earn that love. +2B -1F
2 2 - Duplicate: It wasn't your fault that your child already had a toy very similar to you. You try everything you can to set yourself apart but your child's best ideas always seem to go to your doppleganger first. +2B -1i
2 3 - Personality: You are always played with in the same way. Your child has given you a clearly-defined personality, and you err on the side of caution, never sure if taking large action will break that bond +2i -1B
2 4 - Quirky: It's sad but true, you're either home-made as practice or a factory reject. While your child has found many ways to include your oddities in their play, you just aren't that familiar to look at. +2i -1F
2 5 - Security Blanket: You aren't a blanket, but you do fill the same role. When your child is hiding under the covers, chances are you're going to be there too. +2F -1B
2 6 - Cuddles: You are there for the cuddles, not for the games. Always nearby but in a very clearly defined role. +2F -1i
3 1 - Sleepytime Toy: At bed is where you feel most at home, and you're used to dealing with what lives in the darkness beneath it. +1 to attacks when fighting Bed monsters.
3 2 - Toybox Toy: Like most of the toys your child has, you are kept in the Toybox next to the wardrobe - and we all know what lives in there! +1 to attacks against Closet monsters.
3 3 - Top-shelf Toy: You were expensive, and Mother makes your child tidy you away nicely at the end of the day. You reside on the shelf, being taken down for play but at night keeping an ever-watchful eye on those shadows in the corners. +1 to attacks when fighting Shadow monsters.
3 4 - Tossed Toy: It's a fact of life that your child tosses and turns, and whether because you are the outermost toy in the bed, or just your size or shape, it's usually you that gets knocked onto the floor at midnight. You've become an old hand at avoiding what lies under the bed. +1 defence when fighting Bed monsters.
3 5 -Untidy Toy: There's always one toy left trapped between the lid of the toybox, or that doesn't quite fit so is left on top. That toy is you, and to survive you've had to ward off wardrobe monsters every night you can remeber. +1 defence against Closet monsters.
3 6 -Lower-shelf Toy: Being on the shelves, you too know the horrors lurking in the corners of the room, but unlike your Top-Shelf counterparts, you normally find yourself having to fend them off. +1 to defence when fighting Shadow monsters
4 1 - Big: [physical damage, bravery increase]
4 2 - Small: [evasion and accuracy increase]
4 3 - Patchwork: You have a maximum Condition score of 8, but your Resiliance is also increased by 1
4 4 - Rolly-Poly: If knocked back or knocked over, take no penalty as you simply carry on rolling until you are on your feet again.
4 5 -
4 6 -
5 1 -
5 2 -
5 3 -
5 4 -
5 5 -
5 6 -
6 1 - Fearless: It's hard to say who loves who more: you or your child. Once per Dream, you may choose to negate Bravery damage.
6 2 - Heart: Friends are for life, and even when your child grows up you will be there for them should they ever need you again. Once per Dream, you may choose to negate Friendship damage.
6 3 - Memorable: The way things are going, you are probably going to be a childhood memory even when your child grows up. Once per Dream, you may choose to negate Imagination damage
6 4 - Selfless: Once per battle you may take the damage intended for another toy.
6 5 - Quality: Your stuffing truly is made of the best... well, stuff. While unremarkable, you make up for it in other ways. Roll on the Ability table.
6 6 - Lucky: You may re-roll one check per dream.


-------------------------------------------------------
Abilities: [okay I don't have time to go into them like above since it's nearly midnight but I'll gloss some real quick]

Sword of Serendipity: By sheer force of imagination, you conjur a sword for the duration of the Battle at the lasting cost of 1 imagination point (it makes you harder to believe in for your child) which inflicts Physical damage plus your Bravery bonus.

Aura of Light: While active, you take a penalty of -2 Bravery[?] but any Shadow monster your party fight suffers [some kind of penalty] against all party members. Activate at will as many times as you like.

Make Do and Mend: Once per Dream, you can restore four points of Condition damage to any one Toy, or three points spread however you wish.

Heliomance
2012-02-08, 08:39 PM
Hmm, doesn't quite do it for me. I think I'd like to push for just having Bravery as HP analogue, rather than playing scissors-paper-stone. And it seems a little egotistical, seeing as it was my idea, but I really do like having the Child's imagination as XP. And again, I'm arguing against having any physical damage - "dying" should either be represented by being forgotten about by your Child and eventually lost, or by losing your animating force and becoming just a toy again. I think I prefer the second option.
(On a minor note, Child should totally always be capitalised :P)

I'm fine with keeping the idea of the imagination-bravery-friendship trifecta, the fluff of it is lovely. In my mind, friendship makes a great power stat - toys the Child loves more will naturally be the stauncher defenders, powered by their bond with their Child.

Absolutely agree that the general term for a PC should be Guardian.

Your proposed chargen method is too random for my tastes. It makes it impossible to have a concept first and try and build for that concept. Everything is random, so you have to try and fit a concept around how the dice fall - that's backwards, in my mind.

Not sure about the dice you chose - any reason why you chose them? Personally I'd lean towards a dice pool system, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

Idea for a future expansion: Imaginary friends. No reason why lacking a body should stop you being a Guardian.

--Lime--
2012-02-08, 09:01 PM
I admit it's a bit of a mess. Physical damage didn't come into it until I was near the end of the post. I included it because I wanted Bravery, Friendship and Imagination-based Abilities, but that would tend to having one thing to do in a battle and therefore not a lot of play options. Having standard attacks and fancy attacks tied to fancy saves gives options, especially when the fancy attacks have penalties. Also allows for supporting roles by branching out a little. At first, though, I did want to keep it dead simple, having one stat do this and another do that, but as it developed, I didn't want it to be Bravery-based being Fighter, Imagination-based being Caster type-affair.

I see where you're coming from with the Bravery as HP and Imagination as XP (see above) but those stats don't get used very often as active choices, and since they're the most whimsical aspect of this game, I wanted them to be at the heart of it. There's a line from a play that keeps going round in my head, "The staunch defender of the little man", which I think is so apt for a teddy fighting ethereal and scary monsters because he loves his child, and the child believes in him, and the teddy is a brave little soul.

I went for 2d6 because you can get 1d6, 2d6 and the 10s/1s choice. An alternative would be <stat>*1d6. The idea being to keep it simple. Want to do something? Roll one or two d6, consult relevant table. No table for it? Roll one or two d6, DM assigns a DC, pass or fail. Same mechanic both in and out of battle. It's something kids can get the hang of easily, and everyone has a d6 even if they don't have a d20 in their house. The simplicity aspect is also why I have not yet convinced myself about including physical damage types, but it leads down a rather good alleyway of having "Thing with many tentacles" being fought differently to "Shadow thing with no body".

As for the character creation being arbitrary, it is a little bit but really I saw it as a challenge to come up with ways for the characters to interact with the world. It made me get things solid in my head. View what I posted as a braindump with no editing rather than a finished piece or somewhere to start from. And there's always the option for DMs to allow several traits and abilities per character, and for the players to choose rather than roll 'em up.

Imaginary friends can certainly be in there. I think they'd require being dealt with slightly differently so I was sticking to ragdoll/teddy bear in my mind but it really wasn't my intention to restrict it purely to that.

Thanks for the comment about the fluff though :smallredface: It's the part which appeals to me the most and was the most fun to write.

radmelon
2012-02-08, 09:33 PM
This is an AWESOME idea. :smallcool: I loved the teddy bear race this was based on, the idea really spoke to me. I eagerly await how this turns out. :smallbiggrin:

IMO, The table for traits looks really nice, and maybe something like it could be used, but randomly generated characters aren't very fun to make. Maybe something like GURPS? Also, the sample abilities seem a little... rushed. Good job all-around, though. :smallwink:

Admiral Squish
2012-02-08, 10:38 PM
Just gotta say. This is an awesome project, and I really wish I had more to contribute. I find it amazing that the playground can just come together and create things like this.

I do like the idea of the d6, it's useful, versatile and there's always plenty of them. However, it doesn't really work well for 10s/1s as suggested, unless operating in base 7, which doesn't really work for kids.

Perhaps we could combine dice pool/numeric scoring? Like, you determine X score by rolling a d6, then when using that score, roll that many d6s to determine the result?

I too like the idea of the trifecta scores, but not the way presented in your thing, lime. I like the idea of bravery as HP, imagination as XP, and friendship as a sort of 'willpower' stat that can either power special abilities or influence rolls. If only so players would be able to say 'I use my friendship power' at the table. Beyond that, though, I think we do need another few scores. Some sort of power stat, a speed/dexterity/finesse stat, and maybe a resistance stat. I also like the idea of 'condition' as a rarer form of HP, whith lethal consequences if you run out, and serious problems getting patched up later by 'mother'.

I also like the idea of the child's play determining your abilities. Kind of like class, but with extremely fluid multiclassing, or even abilities tied to things more like skills. Like, if you have one point in doctor, you'd gain some special ability to patch up minor condition damage on the fly. A few points in performer would be able to boost other toy's abilities, maybe even restore bravery.

Also, I suggest a D&D like system of segmented turns, but simplified further. Two actions each turn. That could be move and attack, two attacks, maybe move and use a special. Then there's full-round actions that take up your whole turn, like maybe trying to affect the dream, or doing some big, special action. Finally we've got instant actions that don't take any time at all, and can be used whenever.

Overall, I'm picturing something sorta like a really simple version of WoD.

--Lime--
2012-02-08, 11:07 PM
The 10s/1s thing just gives more results per table. It means table length isn't limited to 12. I wouldn't use it for anything other than "Which monster do we fight tonight?" or for a random option for character creation. Nothing in-the-heat-of-action. Character creation, I have to stress, can be chosen, but some folk like the random option.

Admiral Squish
2012-02-08, 11:19 PM
The 10s/1s thing just gives more results per table. It means table length isn't limited to 12. I wouldn't use it for anything other than "Which monster do we fight tonight?" or for a random option for character creation. Nothing in-the-heat-of-action. Character creation, I have to stress, can be chosen, but some folk like the random option.

I could definitely see 2d6 being used like a d100 for things like that, but I think we shouldn't try to make it 10s/1s, but more like a chart based on the results of each die. Basically like what you had, but with little pictures of dice instead.


Currently thinking that perhaps the basic system should be 1d6+stat for most everything. I'm working on a braindump of my own here. It's starting to look pretty cool in my head.

--Lime--
2012-02-08, 11:24 PM
I can go with pictures. I like pictures!

What are people's thoughts on having a grid for movement and stuff? I'm personally not imagining one. You're "in battle" where you can be "knocked aside" or "knocked down" or "fighting". Actual location doesn't matter. That way you don't get caught up with ranged attacks or who is exactly where and it takes less time to work through a round.

Admiral Squish
2012-02-09, 12:11 AM
Okay, so I'm looking at a sort of hybridization of D&D, White wolf, and a few weirder things. Peep the spoiler ‘cause it’s a lil’ long.

The basic mechanic is 1d6+stat. Putting a heavier emphasis on the traits you start with than random chance, but luck isn’t completely out of the picture. Character generation uses 2d6, rolled sixtimes in total. You roll 2d6 three times to determine your stats (power, agility and toughness), and can assign them however you want. You roll once to figure out your bravery, and once to figure out your friendship. Finally, you roll to determine how many points you have in your Roles.

Bravery is the main HP. This is what is typically going to be lost as you fight the Horrors. Most physical attacks do nothing to you physically, they just demoralize you further and further until eventually you go hide. Friendship can be expended, much like willpower in WoD, to add an extra d6 to a roll. This comes back between adventures. You also have 10 condition, which, if depleted, leaves you ‘broken’. You don’t break on the spot, but you lose your animation and the next time the Child plays with you, you break.

Power is simply the amount of physical force you can apply. Brute strength, most often used as your attack. Agility is how well you can dodge and how fast you can move. Toughness is how physically/mentally tough you are. You can choose to roll Agility or Toughness to defend against an attack, and it’s slightly different. If you use agility, you roll against the attack. If you win, you completely dodge the strike. If you lose, you take half the attack’s result in bravery. With toughness, your result is subtracted from the attack, so if he beats you by two, you’re gonna take two points of bravery. Toughness is also used as a save sometimes, and I’m thinking there may be some traits that let you use agility instead of power for attacks.

Then we have traits. You get to pick three, they‘re describing you physicaly and how you‘re played with, and never change. Many of them will be simply stat-affecting, like +2 bravery/-1 friendship, allowing a measure of control over how the dice affect you. Some of them will have special effects, like Big allows you to reach things, but not fit in small spaces.

Finally, there’s roles. When you rolled the 2d6, you got that many points to put into your roles. You can assign them however you want, but the juicy abilities are toward the end of each role. Each point in a role gives you some special abilities regarding said role. So, say, doctor one would give you the ability to restore a point of bravery, doctor three would let you fix a point of condition, and doctor six would allow you to completely restore a guardian’s bravery. Some of the abilities might scale as you add points, or be special attacks.

Turns would be in parts. You’d have one turn, and two actions within that turn. One action would be something like, attack, open the door, move, do a special technique. So, if you did nothing else, you could attack twice in a turn, or move twice as far. Then there would be full-round actions, which would be really special, big actions. Like, talking a cowering guardian back into the fight, or using some kind of awesome ability.

I think there should be a battlemap of some sort, probably using 1-foot squares. Honestly, if you’re in a household that’s going to play this, they probably have a grid map somewhere.

Here’s an extremely rushed sample char sheet:

Bravery: [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][ ][ ][ ]
Condition[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Friendship[X][X][X][X][X][X][ ][ ][ ][ ]
{table=head]Ability|Score
Power|10
Agility|4
Toughness|7[/table]
Imagination: 0

Traits:
Big (special)
Present (-1 friendship, +2 bravery)
Cuddler (+1 toughness, +1 friendship, -1 bravery)

Role|Points
Warrior|[X][X][X][ ][ ][ ]
Doctor/Nurse|[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Performer|[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Monster|[X][X][X][X][ ][ ]
Scientist|[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Explorer|[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
X|[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
X|[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
X|[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]

Saintheart
2012-02-09, 01:11 AM
Hi all -- I love the idea of this system, and I'd love to be a part of it!

I don't want to clog the discussion with stuff that doesn't need to be looked at right now, but it seems to me there's been (rightly) a lot of discussion about the concept of the guardians, but not a lot about the monsters themselves.

I'll pick up and work off Lime's proposed mechanic:


Monsters are many and varied but always belong to one of three classes: Bed, Closet and Shadow. Bed monsters tend to be the sort to reach out and grab you - hard on the attack. Closet monsters have their sturdy fortress to grow strong in, and will defend heavily. Shadow monsters are quick by nature and will be hard to either hit or avoid. But this is a generalisation: some Closet monsters are quicker than some of the larger Shadows, and some Shadow monsters prefer to be vicious than dexterous. Within each category are all kinds of monsters with all kinds of devious ways of turning dream to nightmare.

But where do they come from? What are their goals? How do they do what they do?

Upping the ante:
If we're looking for a horror-with-a-twist sort of vibe, there may need to be a serious consequence if guardians fail in their tasks. At the moment I take it that the guardians basically prevent the monsters giving their children nightmares. The question being: so what in objective terms? Bobby has a bad sleep, yes, but what's the consequence of nightmares?

One thought I had was to make these creatures potentially lethal if given enough time and opportunity. Stephen King's got a short story about a man who quite literally encounters the Boogeyman after his child is consumed by it. It makes for pretty frightening reading.

Perhaps the monsters are more or less endemic but were far more common in "primitive" times, but with the onset of rationality and reason and the dwindling of pure old belief, they also lost their strength. Whilst some can still be found around occasionally as ghosts or 'nature spirits', the vast majority have been forced back to the last potent source of belief and imagination that fuels their existence: the minds of children, where the mind has not yet learned to distinguish between the real and the imagination.

(The magic that gives life to the guardians is a countervailing power, because nature abhors an imbalance -- no shadow without light, no light without shadow and whatnot).

The problem is that given opportunity and time, and enough control over a child's dreams, the monster can gain enough energy to bootstrap-levitate itself into the rational universe. When that happens, they can consume the child's life, or soul, or heart, which gives them great power in the unseen world. The medical result in such cases is either an unexplained disappearance or unexplained death of a child (I won't link directly to SIDS here, that's a bit over the top). Beyond direct loyalty to a child, this is the prime reason the guardians fight the monsters.

Are they organised, or chaotic?
In short, do the monsters cooperate, or is it more likely a guardian has to contend with a chaotic Zerg Rush from the monsters that inhabit his child's room?

I think a mixture of both: the ones that have consumed a child are much more intelligent and powerful (and indeed maybe the uber, overboss is none other than The Boogeyman himself) and consequently are a lot more organised about their behaviour. They try to find homes or buildings where children won't be guarded (orphanages, or abusive households) -- the guardians' missions in these cases are insertions into "hot zones" to try and get a foothold back against the darkness.

But in most households the guardians are basically watchmen who deal with disorganised attempts at interfering with children's dreams. Or in new houses, their job is to clear the place out to make nighttime safe for the kids.

Do the monsters have any long term goals?
In short, to open a dimensional gate to allow a H.P. Lovecraft (The Prophet, they call him) monster through. The guardians are at least aware of these plans and are constantly trying to find out more about where that plan is taking place.

Just some opening thoughts...

The Bandicoot
2012-02-09, 02:15 AM
Am I the only one that had miniatures set up to defend my room? I had squads of guys with bows/crossbows on my dressers and full armies underneath them ready to run out. Having an uncle who worked at the local D&D shop really helped when I needed to replace casualties. xD

Heliomance
2012-02-09, 03:43 AM
I still think chargen should be point buy based, or at the very least have that option. Also we should probably work out how character advancement works.

As for dice, d6 is probably not a bad way to go. We could go with stat+d6, but I think I'd prefer stat*d6, with 5 being a success and 6 counting double. IMHO, dice pools give a much better distribution (ie, not flat), and that system has a nice easy expectation of half the number of dice rolled.

Fluff wise, I'm against failure meaning a Child dies. It makes the setting far too dark. The feel of the setting should be all about triumph over the darkness, and such a stark aspect doesn't really fit, I dont think.

Xiander
2012-02-09, 05:31 AM
Wow!

I sleep for eight hours and suddenly four people write small essays filled with interesting ideas.

I will try to comment on everything, by editing this post. It might take a while, and will be done in bits, so be patient.

About stats and mechanics.

Stats
I originally envisioned the BFi trio to all be power stats, but i am very flexible, especially since you are all turning out interesting ideas.
To elaborate a little I imagined them to work a bit like willpower in WoD with each governing different types of action. So bravery could be spent to suppress fear, and to have greater chance of success when doing something brave. And something like that for the two others as well.
I do like the Bravery as hitpoints idea. Friendship as a powerstat makes a lot of sense as well. What I cannot really decide is what I feel about imagination as XP. On one hand it makes sense and is very thematic, on the other hand Imagination seems like it should be tied with bravery and friendship for the most important attribute a guardian has, and have a very direct influence on the game.

Adding Power, agility and toughness works for me. I had initially kept ham out of my concept, because i wanted to focus on BFi, for the sake of the theme.

Dicerolls
A lot of interesting things has been said about this.
I agree with Heliomanse that a dicepool system is probably the way to go, especially if we keep it as simple as stat*d6.

A thought which occured to me is that we might want to take a good idea from ICONs. In that game the GM almost never roll dice. If a player wants to attack, he rolls against the opponents defensive stat. If a player is attacked he rolls a defense roll against the opponents attack stat.

Character creation, traits and roles

First things first: I do not want to have random character generation as the standard.
There are a couple of reasons for this. Most of all, I want players to be able to think back to their own childhood, remember their own favorite teddybear and then play as that. This can't be done by rolling on random tables.

Secondly, I would actually like for players to have the freedom to come up with their own traits. Sure we can write up a bi long list of all the fun traits we can think of, but if a player really want to play something not covered on the list, I would like it to be simple and intuitive to just come up with that trait, and apply it to the game.

Thirdly there is the fact that I don't like the thought of a player wanting to play a valiant teddybear who faces danger sword in hand and without blinking, who then ends up rolling a cowardly doctor.

I don't mind the possibility of making a random character, but i want the standard to be some sort of pointbuy, with random rolling as an alternative to those who finds it fun.


About the monsters
Thank you Saintheart for bringing this up. I have a ton of ideas for this area of the game, but not enough time ore wherewithal to channel it all into one post.

I'll try to make clear how I think of the monsters. They are things of darkness, fear and hunger. That they all have in common. Apart from that they are very diverse. Big, small, clever, dumb, fast or slow, all kinds exist. They have individual goals and individual means to reach those goals, unfortunately one thing they do have in common is that children are part of the means or sometimes the goals.

While the nightmares I made a write-up for are very basic and does little other than scare the child (and possibly drive it insane if they are allowed to run free inside it's head for long enough), I want there to be other monsters with much more sinister appetites or goals. (I will probably work on a brain-dump about this later today).

Heliomance, I can follow your concern about having the cost of failure be the child's life. I have a suggestion, which work well with the fluff: The monsters aren't real... at least not in a physical way, they cannot actually steal the child or eat the child. The can however affect the child's dream, it's imagination and its thoughts. If no guardians rise to protect a child, the cost might be the child's ability to make belief or to make friends, the very virtues that create the Guardians may be lost to the child.
While the child may not be in physical danger, all that is good and pure in the child may be at risk.
... That is still pretty bleak, but the idea is that the guardians should prevail in most cases, especially in those actually played out in the game.

Heliomance
2012-02-09, 06:10 AM
Imagination doesn't seem like something the Guardian has, to me. The Guardian can fight because of the Child's imagination. Toys aren't imaginative, they're vessels for the imagination of the people playing with them. So it makes little sense to me to have imagination as a quality of the Guardian, it seems more something that they accumulate as they are played with and the Child imbues more imagination into them. Thus, XP.

As for thoughts about condition/toughness/actual damage, monsters under the bed have never been a physical thing. They're creatures of fear, eaters of dreams. Physical damage is not how they work - they attack the mental, the emotional, the spirit.

Regarding how the Guardians are animate: I don't think we should ever explain it. There is no magic that animates a Child's toys to fight, it's just The Way Things Are. Every Child knows their toys have personalities, in their minds the toys are real people. And so that is how it is. It's even up for debate how literally they do animate, and how much the entire thing is a metaphor. Toys fight off the nightmare monsters not because of magic, but because that's what toys do.

Xiander
2012-02-09, 06:27 AM
Imagination doesn't seem like something the Guardian has, to me. The Guardian can fight because of the Child's imagination. Toys aren't imaginative, they're vessels for the imagination of the people playing with them. So it makes little sense to me to have imagination as a quality of the Guardian, it seems more something that they accumulate as they are played with and the Child imbues more imagination into them. Thus, XP.

As for thoughts about condition/toughness/actual damage, monsters under the bed have never been a physical thing. They're creatures of fear, eaters of dreams. Physical damage is not how they work - they attack the mental, the emotional, the spirit.

I tend to agree with this. I do still like the idea of the monster under the bed being able to toss Teddy the valiant through the air, making him crash against a wall though..

Saintheart
2012-02-09, 06:43 AM
Fluff wise, I'm against failure meaning a Child dies. It makes the setting far too dark. The feel of the setting should be all about triumph over the darkness, and such a stark aspect doesn't really fit, I dont think.

It need not be death, then: a monster that has sufficient free reign over a child's mind for long enough drains that child's will or energy. They become withdrawn; a little of the light in their eyes dies rather than themselves. Or, as suggested, their capacity to make friends does. The only point I might raise is that the stakes for players need to be real, so one would have to emphasise to players the RP aspect that a guardian's prime aim in its existence is to protect children from such withering.


As for thoughts about condition/toughness/actual damage, monsters under the bed have never been a physical thing. They're creatures of fear, eaters of dreams. Physical damage is not how they work - they attack the mental, the emotional, the spirit.

Against children, yes. You don't chew on a power source. But against the guardians I'd suggest it's entirely different; if we're operating in the realm of Your Mind Makes It Real then it surely makes sense that they can engage in physical, actual combat with their arch-enemies.

Heliomance
2012-02-09, 06:57 AM
Against children, yes. You don't chew on a power source. But against the guardians I'd suggest it's entirely different; if we're operating in the realm of Your Mind Makes It Real then it surely makes sense that they can engage in physical, actual combat with their arch-enemies.

When did you ever go to bed with a toy in perfect condition and wake up to find it destroyed? No, I think it far better that the monsters strike at the guardians' courage, their wills, their animus. A Guardian that is defeated finds that it no longer has the will to fight, and it becomes no more than a lump of fur and stuffing, the imagination that animated it gone. That happened to one of my toys, I'm sure.

When I was very small, I had three favourite toys: a yellow teddy, a green elephant, and a blue mouse. The teddy I don't actually remember, I apparently lost it in a car park, but I was young enough that I have no recollection of it at all. The elephant was and remained my absolute favourite right up until I stopped sleeping with soft toys. The mouse, though... the mouse just fell out of favour. I don't know why. I stopped cuddling it, I stopped playing with it. I don't remember it having a great role in any of the make-believe games I played with my toys. Clearly, it succumbed to the monsters, and became nothing more than a toy.

That's what happens when a guardian dies. The physical shell is still there, but it's empty. It gets pushed to the foot of the bed, or the high shelf, or the bottom of the toybox, because the Child can tell, subconciously, that something special about it is gone. Perhaps with a new Child, it can gain a new spirit, but its personality will be different, and if the first Child comes across it again, they'll know it's no longer their Guardian.

GodGoblin
2012-02-09, 08:32 AM
Loving this!

As ive read through this thread a few ideas have popped up, mainly about what the monsters do to the child. I too think death isnt very fitting for the tone and I like the idea of making the child loose its spark and ability to make friends.

The idea I had was that they slowly corrupt the child, make them naughty and unruly, when that naughty and fully corrupted child grows up he may turn to a life of crime or become a corrupt lawyer and generally make the world a worse place which is the Nightmares goal, making the world such a bad place that it becomes a living nightmare.


Im also subscribing to the idea of bravery as a HP style stat that when it runs out you loose the will and courage to fight rather than taking physical damage BUT I also like the image of the teddy being thrown about the room, we all know a teddy can be thrown against a wall without sustaining injury so it shouldnt get frayed and battered but being batted around will damage its will to fight thus reducing its bravery in a similar way that hearing a terrifying roar would.

I think that would mesh the 2 ideas together fairly well, letting you use both physical attacks and mental assaults but with them tackling the same damage mechanic.

Saintheart
2012-02-09, 09:11 AM
Im also subscribing to the idea of bravery as a HP style stat that when it runs out you loose the will and courage to fight rather than taking physical damage BUT I also like the image of the teddy being thrown about the room, we all know a teddy can be thrown against a wall without sustaining injury so it shouldnt get frayed and battered but being batted around will damage its will to fight thus reducing its bravery in a similar way that hearing a terrifying roar would.

I think that would mesh the 2 ideas together fairly well, letting you use both physical attacks and mental assaults but with them tackling the same damage mechanic.

I like the sound of that compromise. Maybe some monsters -- offshoots of vampire stories, or something -- can possibly just grapple a guardian and just drain the vital force from them directly. So the point with them is not to avoid physical damage as such, it's to avoid getting into an lock so the monster can 'feed'. I suppose the thought that a monster can throw you round the room and you can't do much about it would break your will and your bravery as such.

As an aside, brainstorming really, perhaps a guardian tactic is to force the monsters to interact in a rational way with the real world? We know that if the lights are turned on, the monsters disappear. If a monster is put in a position where it has to interact rationally with the world -- e.g. you shut a door on the monster, and it phasing through the wall or indeed pushing physically on the door costs the monster its own 'vitality' to come in?

--Lime--
2012-02-09, 09:42 AM
Physical damage is something that was an issue with my soft toys though. I never remember the eye coming off: simply, it was there one time and gone the next. It's not so much that you wake up and it's a pile of stuffing, more that... no wait, I can't reasonably fluff it into a gme mechanic that doesn't feel like shoe-horning an effect in.

I fully agree that losing the animus should be the key issue here.

GodGoblin
2012-02-09, 09:48 AM
As an aside, brainstorming really, perhaps a guardian tactic is to force the monsters to interact in a rational way with the real world? We know that if the lights are turned on, the monsters disappear. If a monster is put in a position where it has to interact rationally with the world -- e.g. you shut a door on the monster, and it phasing through the wall or indeed pushing physically on the door costs the monster its own 'vitality' to come in?

Almost like in Assassins Creed with the whole syncronicity thing, the monsters arent real and to making them interact with the real world causes them to realise this. Its actually a willing suspention of disbelief that keeps them here and the stronger/older Nightmares have that much more of it. So a way to defeat one is to simply prove to it that its not real and over come its stubborness?


Physical damage is something that was an issue with my soft toys though. I never remember the eye coming off: simply, it was there one time and gone the next. It's not so much that you wake up and it's a pile of stuffing, more that... no wait, I can't reasonably fluff it into a gme mechanic that doesn't feel like shoe-horning an effect in.


This could all be summed up with role playing Id say, the DM tells you when you loose an eye or get rather frayed but you will probably be patched up by Mother before too long anyway.

--Lime--
2012-02-09, 09:54 AM
What's the gameplay going to be like between battles? I said pretty much freeform, but there needs to be some way to use stats. What's the objective? Simply find the monsters? Do the monsters turn parts of the dreams into Nightmare strongholds? Follow the child as they walk through their dreamworld... ooh I like that one. The Child is proper-sized, and the Guardians have to work out how to get from room to room or up a cliff or across a river or whatever, staying close enough that the human child doesn't get preyed upon. The monsters don't directly attack the child, they change the surroundings turning it into a nightmare to feed off the child's fear. The child doesn't see the monsters, and doesn't pay any attention to the Guardians - or perhaps the Guardians have to stay out of sight? Perhaps some nights, the fight takes place outside the dreamworld in the bedroom (for variety and thus replay value) and you have to stop the monsters getting into the dream and also not wake the child up.

Once again, this is unedited stream of consciousness. Hardly reflected upon.

Yitzi
2012-02-09, 09:56 AM
About the question of how to make Imagination be on a level with the other two...I'd say make it a power stat (spent to achieve effects), but in a different way than Friendship. Friendship is used for more "subtle" effects (buffs and debuffs, including restoring Bravery and Imagination) and more important to support characters (after all, it's sort of silly for friendship to help you do something blatant; it's more a question of morale, persuasion, and such), while Imagination is used for more blatant effects (create or boost a weapon, cause the needed materials to be right there, etc), and is more important for more direct combatants and actors.

There's also the question of how to determine the effects of various things; I'd say each stat should also affect the power of the stuff it fuels. So you get some sort of DR based on your (current) Bravery score, support effects are based on your Friendship score, and direct effects (including attacks) on your Imagination score (and for the latter two, I'd say that the power should be based on the maximum/base amount rather than the amount remaining to spend.)

Kadzar
2012-02-09, 04:38 PM
I'd say that, whatever the Nightmares are trying to do, it doesn't need to have world-spanning consequences. In fact, I think that it being so would undermine the basic themes of the game. It should be enough for a Guardian that their Child is in some kind of danger.

I also think that, whatever Imagination turn out to be, it should somehow make the monsters more numerous or powerful, or at least make characters more vulnerable. If it had a widespread effect, it could alter the landscape of the real world. Frankly, I think dreams are a bit too metaphysical for a game about children; we should work from the base of the real world and alter that through imagination to create more fantastic locations.

Admiral Squish
2012-02-09, 05:56 PM
Idea: Horrors and Guardians are made from the same thing: Imagination. Whereas a child semi-consciously creates and imbues the guardians with their essence, the Horrors are created subconsciously out of the child's fears, regrets and sorrows. Since they're created haphazardly, horrors are unstable, however. They need more imagination to become more 'real'. The horrors come to take it in the night. But no matter how much a horror steals, their existence without a true, physical body is unsustainable. An unchecked horror steals away all of a child's imagination, leaving the child to live out a gray life. Horrors that succeed in draining a child so can even become strong enough to manifest into reality proper. The guardians fight them to protect their children, and to protect the rest of the world from horrors manifesting into reality. Destroying a horror allows the guardians to absorb some of their leftover imagination-stuff, becoming more powerful in the process.

Xiander
2012-02-10, 11:14 AM
Okay, I found it so hard to explain my ideas in standard prose, so I ended up writing a blurp which might appear in a final text when we reach that state at some point.
I would like to stress that this is mostly a suggestion and is subject to change if any argument for why it should be changed arise. Here goes:


There is a place. A dark,sinister place, hidden beneath the reality we know, or perhaps behind it, connected to here only by the shadows in your closet and under your bed. In this land of fear and shadows, dwells every dark and frightening creature ever imagined by a child. The grown-ups say there’s no such place, they say the monsters are just imagination and bad dreams.
The grown-ups are wrong.
The moment a child dream up a frightening creature, imagination fear and the darkness in the place under the bed come together and breathe life into the monster. The monsters thirst and hunger for more of the imagination that created them, and so children everywhere fear the shadows under the bed and in the closet, because it is from those shadows the monsters emerge to eat their fill of the children’s thoughts and dreams.
The grown-ups never see the monsters, because they don't believe. When the grown-ups show up the monsters disappear back to the dark place. Children seldom see the monsters either, but they sense them, know them and, most importantly, they believe.
The monsters thrive in darkness and abhor the sunlight, almost all monsters disappear if sunlight hits them, and many monsters avoid any kind of light. Still, leaving the night-light on will not always be enough to save a frightened child. Some monsters are to strong to be bothered by the light or to clever to let it stop them.
The children however have other ways of protecting themselves from the night-time intruders. The same imagination which creates and feeds the monsters also fuel the first and last line of defence against the monsters.
When the grown-ups refuse to help a child, the child naturally turns to the ones it can always depend upon. The closest friends who would never betray the child's trust, the toys who play with her every day and guard her bed at night. Their dolls and teddybears. The imagination, love and wishes for safety, which the child pour on the toys, give them power to fight the monsters and keep them away from the child until the sun rises again.

Note, I personally love the idea of Imaginary friends, and I want to Include them, I just need to think of a good way to fit them into the text.

Lots of other cool stuff has been said, I will try to comment on all that later :smallsmile:

Heliomance
2012-02-10, 03:40 PM
Blurb looks good, though it'll need editing for grammar. Content-wise, I like it.

As for imaginary friends - first expansion!

Xiander
2012-02-10, 03:50 PM
Blurb looks good, though it'll need editing for grammar. Content-wise, I like it.

As for imaginary friends - first expansion!

Sure, everything i post in this thread is at best a draft. Editing is expected.

I will probably get around to some ideas about the nature of the guardians tomorrow.

SamBurke
2012-02-10, 04:42 PM
I'm liking how much this has developed so fast...

I agree with non-physical damage, and a separation from your toys.

Question: what about non-central toys? I played with one stuffy most, but had others talk to him. In fact, eight or so of them developed their own personalities. However, I only thought of one of them as MY OWN.

Another thing:

Special Memories. Perhaps there's some sort of buff you can gather during the day, with role-play, that the Guardian remembers during the night to aid him?

EDIT: Saw this comic, realized the applicability.

http://ragecomics.memebase.com/2011/11/08/rage-comics-the-shadowlurker-will-have-your-toes/

I always made sure to be fully covered in bed, and I know some people chose colors of sheets based on what they thought would defend them best. How do we put that in a game?

And do you think playing a child would be possible? Perhaps some few, special children, can go with the bears, because they have enough imagination. They don't fight, but they can buff everyone and keep their spirits up.

Heliomance
2012-02-10, 08:07 PM
No, I don't think we want to have the children playable. They don't know this is going on either. They may suspect, may believe, but they don't know. As for being fully covered in bed, I did the same. I seem to remember having an idea that wolves would eat any part of me that was sticking out - head excepted, obviously. But I don't know that it's relevant for the game.

Admiral Squish
2012-02-10, 08:25 PM
I'm liking how much this has developed so fast...

I agree with non-physical damage, and a separation from your toys.

Question: what about non-central toys? I played with one stuffy most, but had others talk to him. In fact, eight or so of them developed their own personalities. However, I only thought of one of them as MY OWN.

Another thing:

Special Memories. Perhaps there's some sort of buff you can gather during the day, with role-play, that the Guardian remembers during the night to aid him?

EDIT: Saw this comic, realized the applicability.

http://ragecomics.memebase.com/2011/11/08/rage-comics-the-shadowlurker-will-have-your-toes/

I always made sure to be fully covered in bed, and I know some people chose colors of sheets based on what they thought would defend them best. How do we put that in a game?

And do you think playing a child would be possible? Perhaps some few, special children, can go with the bears, because they have enough imagination. They don't fight, but they can buff everyone and keep their spirits up.

Non-central toys would probably be semi-animate, maybe able to talk and move around a bit, but not strong enough to really do much, and certainly not enough to fight. Treat them as NPCs.

As for playable children, sort of like christopher robin? I could see something along those lines.

Chilingsworth
2012-02-11, 03:25 AM
First of all, love this idea.

I just thought of something to add: Pets.

Maybe they can be special enounters: Something that the Gaurdians have to tame, but once they do, they provide some kind of buff every night (because they are sleeping with the Child and so offering him/her protection from the horrors.) If the Guardians fail to tame the new pet, it either fails to bond properly with the child, or maybe even mistakes one or more of them for chew toys. (because it's a kitten/puppy, etc.)

I know that I considered my pets a vital part of my defenses against nightmares when I was a kid.

rorikdude12
2012-02-11, 06:20 AM
Ok, I am really emotional about this, and I may cry. THE TEDDY BEARS ARE SO DEEPLY MOVING THAT I USE ALL CAPS.
Fluff
Yeah, echoing somebody else, both horrors and Guardians should come out of one's mind. The Dualistic nature is quite interesting. Anyway, the Guardians should never really lose their animation unless the child stops playing with them. Despite the many nightmares, my one favorite stuffed animal stayed with me forever.

CRUNCH
So, I think I like d20 system. Keep it to some degree, as in the core mechanic.

Roll 3d6 for stats or use 15 point point buy for the 3 stats.

Bravery: Your Bravery modifier applies to your hit points. Keep in mind that I mean hit points in a very, "I WILL FIGHT LONGER!!!" sense, not the toys are physically being messed with. Failure is really not the Guardians losing their animation, but the Guardians merely fail, are incapped, and they child has a nightmare. Keep in mind, though this may seem small my experience at two and three through about age nine was that I had visual hallucinations, and so nightmares added fuel to the fire.


Friendship: This could be applying to AC, as in the child's subconscious does not want the toy harmed. Either way, it's already been described, and seems like the sort of bluff/diplo stat.

Imagination: Fuels powers that the child thinks the toy has. A toy would have "special forces" equal to the friendship stat -10, minimum 1.

Example:
Boy #1: Mr. Schnuffs flies!!!
Boy #2: Well, Flappers flies too! And he breathes fire!!! And the fire helps his friends!
Boy #1: Cool! Still, Mr. Schnuffs is a BEAR!!


Flappers obviously has a decent Imagination vested in him because he is played with a lot. He has 2 special forces mentioned.

Dragon Wings: The Guardian gains wings and fly speed 60 ft, good.

Fire Breath: The Guardian gains a 6d6 damage fire breath (Reflex save DC 20 for half damage) that harms horrors and heals Guardians.

Mr. Schnuffles obviously also has a pretty good Imagination score, as he is a bear that can fly, so it has a harder suspension of disbelief. He also is probably brave, as he is a bear.

Heliomance
2012-02-12, 06:31 AM
Ok, I am really emotional about this, and I may cry. THE TEDDY BEARS ARE SO DEEPLY MOVING THAT I USE ALL CAPS.
Fluff
Yeah, echoing somebody else, both horrors and Guardians should come out of one's mind. The Dualistic nature is quite interesting. Anyway, the Guardians should never really lose their animation unless the child stops playing with them. Despite the many nightmares, my one favorite stuffed animal stayed with me forever.
[B]

Ah, but which is cause and which is effect? A nightmare simply means that the Guardians were beaten back or were busy with a different monster. You can lose a fight without dying. The fact that you kept your favourite simply means that it never died. If it had done, lost its animating spark, it would have become less appealing, and woulld gradually have fallen out of favour. I think children stop playing with a toy when it dies, rather than the other way round.

Xiander
2012-02-12, 05:58 PM
Ah, but which is cause and which is effect? A nightmare simply means that the Guardians were beaten back or were busy with a different monster. You can lose a fight without dying. The fact that you kept your favourite simply means that it never died. If it had done, lost its animating spark, it would have become less appealing, and woulld gradually have fallen out of favour. I think children stop playing with a toy when it dies, rather than the other way round.

I agree with this. I find that it fits the themes very well, and makes it very clear what is on stake for the guardians.

Fight and you risk loosing your spark of life and going back to being a pile of plush. Don't fight and your child's imagination will be ravaged... leaving the world a little bleaker, and reducing you to a pile of plush.

Xiander
2012-02-13, 04:24 PM
I liked the character sheet sketch which admiral squish drew up, even if there is some stuff I might want to change. Still just suggesting stuff so feel free to disagree with me, if something really doesn't work for you.

The sheet the admiral suggested:




Here’s an extremely rushed sample char sheet:

Bravery: [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][ ][ ][ ]
Condition[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Friendship[X][X][X][X][X][X][ ][ ][ ][ ]
{table=head]Ability|Score
Power|10
Agility|4
Toughness|7[/table]
Imagination: 0

Traits:
Big (special)
Present (-1 friendship, +2 bravery)
Cuddler (+1 toughness, +1 friendship, -1 bravery)

Role|Points
Warrior|[X][X][X][ ][ ][ ]
Doctor/Nurse|[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Performer|[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Monster|[X][X][X][X][ ][ ]
Scientist|[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Explorer|[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
X|[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
X|[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
X|[ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]


My first comment is that I really like the BFi trio, and that the idea about bravery being your hitpoints really works for me (you might bet bruised or even broken, but loosing an eye or an arm is not nearly as fatal as loosing the will to fight).
This means that condition is less important, as it is more a descriptive element than actually a stat. Further, Imagination needs to be on the sheet.

My second comment is about the three action stats (Power, Agility, Toughness). Power and agility seems okay to me, but toughness seems superfluous if we go with the bravery is hitpoints idea. I am thinking that if we need a stat for how tough you are, that could be rolled into power without stretching the definition to much.
What I do lack is a stat to descripe how smart and mentally strong the guardian in question is. A “brains” or “will” stat (it needs a better name, but you get the idea).

Traits are fine as the Admiral represented them, we do need to discuss the effects they have, but lets be done with the sheet's form first.

Roles could be done like on the Admirals scetch, but I think I might like it more to have every Guardian pick a primary and a secondary role and get some benefits (possibly powers?) based on those choices.


With that my mental picture of the sheet is something like this (this character loosely based on a large toy-snake I had as a child):

Bravery: [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][ ][ ][ ]
Friendship[X][X][X][X][X][X][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Imagination[X][X][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]

{table=head]Ability|Score
Power|10
Agility|7
Brains/Personality|4[/table]
Imagination: 0

Traits:
Big (can reach high places etc.)
Meanlooking (bonuses to staredown and intimidate)
Snake-shaped (No hands or legs, can fit through small holes)

Primary Role: Monster/Villain
Secondary Role: Warrior

Condition notes: Scratched up by shadowcreeper.





Now for some discussion on the effects of different attributes:

Bravery:
This is the hitpoint stat. I imagine that you get a pool of bravery points, equal to your permanent bravery (like willpower in WoD). If a Monster lands a hit on you, or roars in a way that would scare away lesser toys, you can spend a point of bravery to overcome the effects.
I am wondering about letting players spend bravery to augment very brave (or foolish) actions, ideas for a system for this would be welcomed.
Running out of bravery means that you are unable to fight effectively, as you have no bravery left to spend to get back on your feet if you are hit by a monster power.
Bravery refreshes when the sun rises and the threat of monsters disappear.

Friendship: I am a bit more fuzzy about how this should work exactly, but buffing and healing seems to be the effects most people agree on. Perhaps even some social shenanigans.
One effect I do find fitting is using an action and a friendship point to help a friend overcome the effects of a monsters attack.

BRAISTORM!
Sorry to interrupt myself but I just got and idea while writing.
What if roles gives you access to different abilities, which you can choose between. Each ability then has three diferent effects, depending on whether you power it with bravery, friendship or imagination. Imagination should be a limited resource and thus give the best effects, while friendship and Bravery should have roughly equal effects, but different from each other.



Okay.. now that I got that out of my system. On to Imagination:
I like the Idea of imagination functioning like XP, but I also sort of want it to be able to fuel abilities. So I propose a compromise: It does both.
Example: You gain a point of imagination (possibly more) every time your child plays with you. That means basicly a point or a couple for every day. These can be spend immediately to power up your other stats (rates should be discussed later). Alternatively you can save them, either to power your abilities or to spend later.

I have a bucketful of further ideas, but I will get to them later. I will try not to wait as long this time.

Heliomance
2012-02-13, 06:37 PM
If you're proposing to have Imagination be both XP and a spendable in-game resource, the effects it produces for spending in-game should be truly spectacular. Otherwise you'd never do anything other than spend it on character advancement.

Also, a point or two per in-game day has the distinct potential to be less than a point per session. I think that's probably too low.

Chilingsworth
2012-02-13, 11:46 PM
The base rate from your child's playing with you could be augmented by imagination awards from overcoming encounters.

A couple other questions.

1. What role would equippment play in the game (and would characters buy it with some sort of currency?)

2. Are the creatures in the game world strictly broken up into the "Guardian" and the "Horror" camps, or are there other factions inbetween?

Xiander
2012-02-14, 01:44 AM
If you're proposing to have Imagination be both XP and a spendable in-game resource, the effects it produces for spending in-game should be truly spectacular. Otherwise you'd never do anything other than spend it on character advancement.

Also, a point or two per in-game day has the distinct potential to be less than a point per session. I think that's probably too low.


Both good points. I had thought of the one about Imagination myself. I'm not married to it, but i sort of like the idea about spending Imagination to do the impossible once in a while.

I don't have anything against the thought of upping the rate at which you receive it, as long as it still is a rather limited resource, compared to friendship and Bravery.


The base rate from your child's playing with you could be augmented by imagination awards from overcoming encounters.

A couple other questions.

1. What role would equippment play in the game (and would characters buy it with some sort of currency?)

2. Are the creatures in the game world strictly broken up into the "Guardian" and the "Horror" camps, or are there other factions inbetween?

1. Equipment is really one thing I am not certain about. On one hand it seems like it should not play to big a role, on the other hand, having a sword and shield like on the pictur, should do something... Ideas?

2. Again not really sure. We have been entertaining the thought of imaginary friends, so there is a basis for introducing something in between the two. Not sure exactly what role such entities would play in the great scheme of things though.

GodGoblin
2012-02-14, 05:06 AM
2. Again not really sure. We have been entertaining the thought of imaginary friends, so there is a basis for introducing something in between the two. Not sure exactly what role such entities would play in the great scheme of things though.

I quite like the idea that Imaginary Friends are a Childs day time protectors, one of the guardians would probably never come into contact with one but maybe for some higher level play (say Epic by D&D standard) the Guardians have to come to life during the day to save the Child from the nightmares that have inhabbitted some humans (Or whatever reason the DM can think of to have day time dangers) so the Guardians come into contact with the Imaginary Friends. But maybe they dont like the Guardians, them being around in the day is putting the Child at risk of exposure to the truth etc so they have to fend off the Nightmares and the Imaginary Friends who are trying to lock them back in the toybox.

Just an idea that lets us have 2 good factions but like night and day they dont necessarily get on.

Heliomance
2012-02-14, 07:52 AM
1. What role would equippment play in the game (and would characters buy it with some sort of currency?)

Best way I can think of to do that is with a trait. Just have "Has a sword" as a trait you can take.

Alternatively, there could be some sort of mechanic for rummaging through the toybox and seeing if there's anything useful in there.

The_Admiral
2012-02-14, 10:16 AM
How about just chalk it down to fluff.

The teddy bear uses a sword to fight the monster.
The plush elephant smashes them with it's trunk.

they do the same amount of damage.

Xiander
2012-02-14, 10:19 AM
Best way I can think of to do that is with a trait. Just have "Has a sword" as a trait you can take.

Alternatively, there could be some sort of mechanic for rummaging through the toybox and seeing if there's anything useful in there.

I like that approach, very simple. For the sake of variety, we should make sure that not everyone who wants to play a battlebear practically have to have the "has a sword"-trait though.

I don't know if i want to make the toybox a mechanic thing, I am all for players finding stuff and using it creatively, but I don't like the feel of rolling on a table to se what is in the toybox...


How about just chalk it down to fluff.

The teddy bear uses a sword to fight the monster.
The plush elephant smashes them with it's trunk.

they do the same amount of damage.

We could certainly have traits with similar effects but different flavor. I do think that a bear with a sword should have some advantage over a bear without a sword though.
Luckily the trait idea fixes that right up.

GodGoblin
2012-02-14, 11:54 AM
Maybe rather than 'Has a Sword' the trait should be 'Improved attack' or something to that effect, that way you could fluff it as a sword or trunk attack. The mechanical effect being a larger damage output than normal, an unarmed bear could say its a super punch or something.

Admiral Squish
2012-02-14, 12:12 PM
I was thinking of having 'has a weapon' be part of role, actually. Like, having warrior as a role gives you a weapon.

Maybe there should be 'extraordinary equipment' as a trait, however. Like, a really cool toy sword for a warrior, or maybe a real stethoscope for a doctor, to give them a bonus to their role.

Also: Read a bit of the comic 'Stuff of Legend' yesterday. It seems pretty cool. It's actually about a band of toys who head off into the dark to rescue their boy from the bogeyman and his forces.

Heliomance
2012-02-14, 01:15 PM
I like that approach, very simple. For the sake of variety, we should make sure that not everyone who wants to play a battlebear practically have to have the "has a sword"-trait though.

I don't know if i want to make the toybox a mechanic thing, I am all for players finding stuff and using it creatively, but I don't like the feel of rolling on a table to se what is in the toybox...


Do it FATE style then. Have a pool of points that you can spend to, eg, declare that a certain thing is in the toybox.

Xiander
2012-02-14, 03:14 PM
Do it FATE style then. Have a pool of points that you can spend to, eg, declare that a certain thing is in the toybox.

THIS is the sort of stuff I find fitting to spend Imagination on.



I was thinking of having 'has a weapon' be part of role, actually. Like, having warrior as a role gives you a weapon.

Maybe there should be 'extraordinary equipment' as a trait, however. Like, a really cool toy sword for a warrior, or maybe a real stethoscope for a doctor, to give them a bonus to their role.

Also: Read a bit of the comic 'Stuff of Legend' yesterday. It seems pretty cool. It's actually about a band of toys who head off into the dark to rescue their boy from the bogeyman and his forces.

It makes sense that a role would give you the tools to act it out. I like that thought.

Extraordinary equipment seems like a perfectly good example of a trait. While I am in this line of thought, I would like to encourage people to come up with as many ideas for traits and roles as they can, I get lots of ideas, but i forget half of them before i get back to the forum. Further I am sure you have ideas I would never think of.

leakingpen
2012-02-14, 03:53 PM
4) The same underbed dimension which gives the monsters acces might give the Heroes an opportunity to meet and work together, even if they live in separate bedrooms in separate houses.



I just want to say, I LOVE this idea! Having to help each other help their own child. Brings in interesting dynamics if two kids are under attack at the same time...

Heliomance
2012-02-14, 07:55 PM
THIS is the sort of stuff I find fitting to spend Imagination on.


...derp. Why didn't I think of that? Yes, that makes perfect sense.

Xiander
2012-02-19, 11:38 AM
Hmm... I am a little surprised to see this on the third page. I have not given up on this project yet, and I hope other are still interested in coming up with ideas for it.

I have been wondering about how to represent monsters mechanically. It makes little sense to give them bravery and friendship scores. Basically, they will probably have to work significantly different than the Guardians.

I rather like the idea that monster stats are actually the difficulty for players to resist being effected by whatever the monster is trying to do. I am not married to the idea, but i think it might work.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

Bhu
2012-02-19, 11:45 AM
I like this :smallcool:

Howler Dagger
2012-02-19, 12:11 PM
I haven't read the entire thread, but how about bravery as short-term hit-points, but friendship as long-term HP? What I mean by this is every time a horror succesfully hurts your child you lose friendship, and when you run out of friendshsip completely you lose the magic that helps you protect your child (you die). Other affecting friendship would be your age and your child's age.

Admiral Squish
2012-02-19, 12:13 PM
So THAT's where this went. I hadn't seen it in a while.

Couple random thoughts:
Bravery: I'm not sure I'm sold on the idea of you 'spending' bravery to get back up. I think you should just lose a point when you're hit, and if you don't have any more, you just give up the fight.

Friendship: I'm thinking of this as 'mana score' of sorts. Your max score is used to determine how powerful some abilities are, but you can spend points of it to power various effects. All guardians would have some very basic abilities using friendship, like spending a point to give a cowering toy a point of bravery, or giving another toy a bonus to their roll. But, say, a doctor would be able to use friendship points to restore more bravery, or other doctory things.

Imagination: I really was a fan of Imagination as XP, but I don't know about a compromise like you mentioned. It could work, but we'd need some majorly powerful effects. Like, fully restores a toy's bravery or something.

Power/agility/brains: I like this one. You're probably right, toys should be just about as tough as one-another, but I wasn't sure if a mental stat was worth it. What will it be affecting?

Anyways, monster stats. I think they would have to work significantly differently from player characters. On the plus side, much of the work we will do on horrors will probably be able to translate pretty well to imaginary friends when we get to it.

Chilingsworth
2012-02-20, 01:33 AM
First, glad to see this hasn't died.

Second, still wondering about pets (i.e. real cats, dogs, etc, not non saipient magical toy sidekicks, though those might be worth thinking about, too.)

Lysander
2012-02-20, 02:50 AM
What about giving characters three kinds of hp? Physical damage, mental damage, and a communal hp representing how much more damage the child could take.

Physical damage "Fluff" would represent rips and tears to the teddy. When they're out of fluff they die. However fluff is fully restored by mother between nights, resurrecting the teddy from the dead if necessary. You begin each night with 100% fluff. There's no way to restore fluff otherwise though.

Mental damage "Bravery" would represent how scared your character is. When you run out of bravery you withdraw and are unable to fight. There would be a variety of ways to restore your own and your teammates bravery. It would not automatically reset between battles though. Mother can't help you with this.

Communal hp "Imagination" would represent how much damage the child can take. The child takes damage when monsters successfully get past the teddys. If the child runs out of imagination all the teddies die, never to be restored, game over. Defeating monsters increases/restores the child's imagination, without limit. There's no max or normal level of imagination, it's just however much has been collected by killing monsters minus all the damage the child has taken. Teddies can also drain the child's imagination themselves to level up or to use special abilities. You'll want to leave a decent amount of imagination with the child to keep it safe, while draining enough to permanently increase the power of the teddies and occasionally using special abilities to get out of jams.

Heliomance
2012-02-20, 06:43 AM
I still disagree with there being any physical damage in the system. Mother is going to get quite suspicious if all the toys need completely repairing every day. Besides which, not every child has a mother, let alone one capable of repairing toys.

Sorry Lysander, but I think your three way HP system is needlessly complicated. For myself, I think my favorite use for imagination is combined XP and FATE points - things you can spend to affect the world.

radmelon
2012-02-20, 10:16 AM
I still disagree with there being any physical damage in the system. Mother is going to get quite suspicious if all the toys need completely repairing every day. Besides which, not every child has a mother, let alone one capable of repairing toys.

Sorry Lysander, but I think your three way HP system is needlessly complicated. For myself, I think my favorite use for imagination is combined XP and FATE points - things you can spend to affect the world.

I myself think that this is the way to go. Of all the suggestions, this one combines simplicity with flavor the best.

Xiander
2012-02-20, 10:56 AM
I still disagree with there being any physical damage in the system. Mother is going to get quite suspicious if all the toys need completely repairing every day. Besides which, not every child has a mother, let alone one capable of repairing toys.

Sorry Lysander, but I think your three way HP system is needlessly complicated. For myself, I think my favorite use for imagination is combined XP and FATE points - things you can spend to affect the world.

I don't mind physical damage happening, but I would prefer to keep it a descriptive part of the game, not having much mechanical effect.

God goblin said it best:




Im also subscribing to the idea of bravery as a HP style stat that when it runs out you loose the will and courage to fight rather than taking physical damage BUT I also like the image of the teddy being thrown about the room, we all know a teddy can be thrown against a wall without sustaining injury so it shouldnt get frayed and battered but being batted around will damage its will to fight thus reducing its bravery in a similar way that hearing a terrifying roar would.

I think that would mesh the 2 ideas together fairly well, letting you use both physical attacks and mental assaults but with them tackling the same damage mechanic.

Also, I am contemplating Pets and the Idea that Imaginary friends are daytime guardians. I have several notes to each idea, but no time to post them now. Hopefully I'll find time soon.

Keep the ideas flowing :smallsmile:

Copper
2012-02-20, 05:15 PM
So if a nightmare gets to a child, what happens mechanics wise? I mean obviously the child has a night mare, but how would that effect the world?

Xiander
2012-02-21, 05:30 AM
Okay, I have several things to comment on, I will try to avoid wall of texting you.

First Invisible friends.
I feel they fit the theme of the setting well, wether they are figments of the childs imagination, given quasi-form by the same force that animates the Guardians, or nightmares turned good guys.
Godgoblin suggested that they could be the daytime guardians of the children. This idea seems cool, but raises a lot of further questions. Can the imaginary friends manifest at night? What are they protecting the children from if nightmares avoid sunlight? Do they even interact with the Guardians?

I mainly raise these questions because I feel they might help make some facts clear about the setting.


Second: Pets.
I do feel that we should deal with the fact that people have pets. Pets could both be obstacles, antagonists and allies, depending on the attitude of pet in question.
My question is how big a role should they play?
I have until now imagined that the stories mostly take place in the childs bedroom and in The Dark places. The rest of the house could be brought into the game but I imagine that Guardians would realize the danger of leaving the bedroom. One thing is aggressive pets, but being seen by an adult might be an even worse mistake than running into Fido the Grand Dane.

Third:

So if a nightmare gets to a child, what happens mechanics wise? I mean obviously the child has a night mare, but how would that effect the world?

Great question.
Some parts of the answer can be extrapolated from what we know already. The monsters and nightmares seek the child to feed of it's imagination. The child's imagination is also what strengthens the guardians.
These facts makes me think that letting a horror get to your child might weaken the bond between you and your child. One nightmare might not break the bond, but let enough monsters get past you and your child looses it's spark, becoming gray and humorless, and you become an inanimate bundle of plush again.

How do we represent this mechanically? A stat for how strong a bond you have with you child perhaps? or maybe we don't have to actually put stats on that... I am really unsure of how to best deal with this.

Edit: Man this forum hates me recently.

Xiander
2012-02-21, 07:42 AM
I really hope my messages reach you people, but according to my computer the last one to post in the thread was Copper... even though i can see my own message in the thread after coppers...

Heliomance
2012-02-21, 10:26 AM
Known issue, official response from the mods is don't double post to fix it. Messages will show up properly as soon as someone else posts.

leakingpen
2012-02-21, 10:30 AM
btw, for suggestions I'd look at both Cat the roleplaying game, by John Wick, and the Fuzzy Knights of the Dinner Table rpg.

Admiral Squish
2012-02-24, 12:02 AM
Hmm... In regards to kid's HP, I'm thinking sorta like what the guy said. Like, the child has X hp. You and the rest of the toys all take a penalty if the child's 'HP' goes down by a certain amount. Representing the horrors stealing some of the essence that animates you.

Whitney
2012-02-24, 03:21 PM
It seems to me that buying equipment would be another good use for Imagination. Instead of directly buffing your attack, you imagine a sword as part of your character's standard package, and it then reappears whenever necessary.

Xiander
2012-02-24, 04:13 PM
It seems to me that buying equipment would be another good use for Imagination. Instead of directly buffing your attack, you imagine a sword as part of your character's standard package, and it then reappears whenever necessary.

I have been thinking something similar. As i see it, equipment could easily be simplified to be a part of a Guardians stats. See the sword/trunk comparison above.
If equipment is just a stat, and Imagination works as the systems XP, getting better equipment would be a matter of spending XP Imagination.

The question remains, as to whether Imagination shoud be spendable to get other effects.

Whitney
2012-02-24, 05:11 PM
I think that it would make a lot of sense to be able to burn Imagination to call down a deus ex machina. That would only happen in combat or related roleplay, and by using such valuable properties on a one-shot effect it would be wasteful enough that players wouldn't want to do it much, but still valuable as a last resort.

Xiander
2012-02-24, 05:30 PM
I think that it would make a lot of sense to be able to burn Imagination to call down a deus ex machina. That would only happen in combat or related roleplay, and by using such valuable properties on a one-shot effect it would be wasteful enough that players wouldn't want to do it much, but still valuable as a last resort.

Something like this was my original thought. Intending to give players a strong option, but at a steep enough cost to make players careful about when they take it.

asurai
2012-02-25, 06:16 AM
So I'm -REALLY- digging this idea. It strikes all the right notes for some reason with me. Anywho, I did some thinking and was thinking up what could be done with the Horrors, or whatever they may end up being called. And I thought up an idea.

What if they had a similar creation process as the guardians to kind of go with the duality of them being the guardians' counter part? To go along with this idea, I thought of maybe they had their own trifecta like how the guardians had the BFI trifecta.

Except instead of BFI obviously, they'd have something along the lines of;

Fear - It is how scary they are. The more fear a Horror has, the more frightful they are. This would allow them to use abilities that would maybe siphon Bravery and make them more fearful as a result. Of course, it can work vice versa and possibly Bravery or great feats of bravery can lower their Fear rating. Once a Horror has no more Fear they're no longer scary, thus they are vanquished. In addition, I thought it would be flavorful if maybe Fear was also a win condition for a Horror. Since they would have various means of accumulating Fear, if they got a certain amount, then they would be victorious and they would cause the child to have a nightmare or what-have-you.

Power - As the name implies, it is how powerful the Horror is. Horrors I imagine can work either by themselves, or with eachother possibly. I imagine that maybe the horrors with higher Power control the ones with less Power creating a bit of hierarchy. It could also work as maybe a means of determining how much Imagination is possibly gotten when they're defeated? Since Power could also encompass ideas of just how much imagination went into this Horror coming into being. Not much else to say about this I figure as it seems pretty basic.

Imagination - Of course Horrors are made up of Imagination as well so they would get an imagination stat. Though possibly working a bit differently. I imagined that Imagination would work something like the social stat of the Horrors. It would be how creative they can be, how cunning they are, etc. to get what they want.

Those were just some ideas I came up with off of the top of my head. Though I did have one last idea. That maybe Horrors start off very strong right off of the bat. But as time goes on they get weaker. To emulate how the closer it gets to the sun rising the weaker they'll get and eventually be forced to disappear or be vanquished by the sun. I imagine this could tie into Power and that as time goes on a Horror's power stat would go down, or something.

Some food for thought. Again, love the idea! Hoping I could make a somewhat useful contribution~

Copper
2012-02-25, 10:58 AM
Hmm... In regards to kid's HP, I'm thinking sorta like what the guy said. Like, the child has X hp. You and the rest of the toys all take a penalty if the child's 'HP' goes down by a certain amount. Representing the horrors stealing some of the essence that animates you.

I feel like this could be tied into Imagination.

Robert Blackletter
2012-02-25, 04:39 PM
I love this idea! (enough that I came out of my GITP retirement!) got a few ideas which I might post when a few more concrete details are out on the system. What class/ advancement system are you planning on using? some of my ideas depends on what system used.
An example would fluff wise be :

Mascot: You are a stuffed version of a company/cartoon/comic etc mascot. This restricts the abilities you can gain but makes the abilities tied with your company/cartoon/comic etc are easier to learn.

Obvious the crunch of this, would change massively depending system.

Oh and for what its worth, I like the darkness inherent with child death if the teddy fails,it make the battles real but if you plan to publish it might be an idea to keep it vague, so that D.M can choose whether it real death, dream death or some kind of metaphor e.t.c
hope this is useful
Robert

Whitney
2012-02-26, 01:52 PM
Healing Ability (Doctor Role)

Bravery: That Didn't Hurt a Bit

For every point of Bravery you spend, you can restore 1d6 + half your Doctor level (rounded down) points of bravery to one character. This can not be used on yourself, and does not permit you or your patient to take any other action for a full turn.

Friendship: Kiss it Better

For every point of Friendship you spend, you can restore your Doctor level points of Bravery to one character. This can not be used on yourself, and does not permit you or your patient to take any other action for a full turn.

Imagination: I'm a Doctor

Spend one point of Imagination and perform any obviously medical procedure to restore a character to full Bravery. This takes 1d6 minus your Doctor level (to a minimum of 1) turns, and can only be used on yourself if suitable props are available-- looking in someone's mouth while he says "aaaaah" is sufficient for others, but for yourself you will need smelly liquid to swallow, a needle to poke yourself with or suchlike.


Whitney

Yitzi
2012-02-26, 04:15 PM
Healing Ability (Doctor Role)

Bravery: That Didn't Hurt a Bit

For every point of Bravery you spend, you can restore 1d6 + half your Doctor level (rounded down) points of bravery to one character. This can not be used on yourself, and does not permit you or your patient to take any other action for a full turn.

This means that you can heal almost up to full every battle if you have two people with that role.

Xiander
2012-02-26, 05:16 PM
What if they had a similar creation process as the guardians to kind of go with the duality of them being the guardians' counter part? To go along with this idea, I thought of maybe they had their own trifecta like how the guardians had the BFI trifecta.

Except instead of BFI obviously, they'd have something along the lines of;

Fear - It is how scary they are. The more fear a Horror has, the more frightful they are. This would allow them to use abilities that would maybe siphon Bravery and make them more fearful as a result. Of course, it can work vice versa and possibly Bravery or great feats of bravery can lower their Fear rating. Once a Horror has no more Fear they're no longer scary, thus they are vanquished. In addition, I thought it would be flavorful if maybe Fear was also a win condition for a Horror. Since they would have various means of accumulating Fear, if they got a certain amount, then they would be victorious and they would cause the child to have a nightmare or what-have-you.

Power - As the name implies, it is how powerful the Horror is. Horrors I imagine can work either by themselves, or with eachother possibly. I imagine that maybe the horrors with higher Power control the ones with less Power creating a bit of hierarchy. It could also work as maybe a means of determining how much Imagination is possibly gotten when they're defeated? Since Power could also encompass ideas of just how much imagination went into this Horror coming into being. Not much else to say about this I figure as it seems pretty basic.

Imagination - Of course Horrors are made up of Imagination as well so they would get an imagination stat. Though possibly working a bit differently. I imagined that Imagination would work something like the social stat of the Horrors. It would be how creative they can be, how cunning they are, etc. to get what they want.

Those were just some ideas I came up with off of the top of my head. Though I did have one last idea. That maybe Horrors start off very strong right off of the bat. But as time goes on they get weaker. To emulate how the closer it gets to the sun rising the weaker they'll get and eventually be forced to disappear or be vanquished by the sun. I imagine this could tie into Power and that as time goes on a Horror's power stat would go down, or something.


The thought of Guardians and the horrors being related their nature appeals to me. I had pondered the thought of a similar but different trio for guardians, and the idea of both parties having Imagination, as it is the essence which fuels them.
Fear seems to work fine largely as you describe it.
Power I am less satisfied with. Perhaps it is just the name, but having one stat describing the power of a monster, seems to invalidate many of the other stats. Also having it bleed together with imagination bothers me. Perhaps the last part of the trio could be something like Tenacity, ferocity or the like...
Where fear describes the monster impact on the psyche of the Guardians, this stat should be more linked to its physical might... is my thought.

I lack any great ideas for this, but I like the general direction.

Hmm... perhaps Malice could work?


I love this idea! (enough that I came out of my GITP retirement!) got a few ideas which I might post when a few more concrete details are out on the system. What class/ advancement system are you planning on using? some of my ideas depends on what system used.
An example would fluff wise be :

Mascot: You are a stuffed version of a company/cartoon/comic etc mascot. This restricts the abilities you can gain but makes the abilities tied with your company/cartoon/comic etc are easier to learn.

Obvious the crunch of this, would change massively depending system.

Oh and for what its worth, I like the darkness inherent with child death if the teddy fails,it make the battles real but if you plan to publish it might be an idea to keep it vague, so that D.M can choose whether it real death, dream death or some kind of metaphor e.t.c
hope this is useful
Robert

Several comments to this.

For class/advancement I prefer a loose system. Instead of strongly limiting classes, like D&D I would prefer roles, which give access to different abilities powered by the BFI stats. Allowing players to choose having a greater spectrum of powers or being more effective with the limited powers they have.
How many roles one character can possibly have is up in the air. I have yet to come upon strong arguments for either of a very limited number or a much greater number of possible roles.

Someone suggested a system for spending Imagination for improvement, but it seems to have disappeared. It struck a court with me, even though it probably needed to be adjusted.


As for the killing of children, I think the best we can do is to leave it deliberately vague and let individual GMs figure it out on their own.
Which actually makes me think that rather than making very specific monsters, we might be best served with providing guidelines for coming up with your own.
This approach has the advantage of allowing some GMs to have monsters actually eat the child, while others can stick to less menacing themes.


Healing Ability (Doctor Role)

Bravery: That Didn't Hurt a Bit

For every point of Bravery you spend, you can restore 1d6 + half your Doctor level (rounded down) points of bravery to one character. This can not be used on yourself, and does not permit you or your patient to take any other action for a full turn.

Friendship: Kiss it Better

For every point of Friendship you spend, you can restore your Doctor level points of Bravery to one character. This can not be used on yourself, and does not permit you or your patient to take any other action for a full turn.

Imagination: I'm a Doctor

Spend one point of Imagination and perform any obviously medical procedure to restore a character to full Bravery. This takes 1d6 minus your Doctor level (to a minimum of 1) turns, and can only be used on yourself if suitable props are available-- looking in someone's mouth while he says "aaaaah" is sufficient for others, but for yourself you will need smelly liquid to swallow, a needle to poke yourself with or suchlike.


Whitney

The style of this amuses and delights me. The actual mechanics needs an overhaul, to make it less of an infinite bravery battery, and to make the powers individually usable in differing situations.
I am still not sure if Imagination should be spendable to fuel powers... It does seem somehow appropriate, but perhaps allowing it to be spent on reality altering might be enough in and of itself. I just don't know.

Whitney
2012-02-26, 05:31 PM
The style of this amuses and delights me. The actual mechanics needs an overhaul, to make it less of an infinite bravery battery, and to make the powers individually usable in differing situations.
I am still not sure if Imagination should be spendable to fuel powers... It does seem somehow appropriate, but perhaps allowing it to be spent on reality altering might be enough in and of itself. I just don't know.

Firstly, thank you. :smallsmile: Second, I hoped that putting in the no other action requirement would help some, as while the two characters are healing each other back and forth, the battle would be going on without them and the Child is in danger. But you're right, I knew that the mechanic was broken when I posted it, I just couldn't come up with any better ideas at the time.

Whitney

Ajadea
2012-02-26, 06:15 PM
Hmm... perhaps something else?

Do No Harm (Doctor)
Active Ability
Cost: 1 Bravery
Time: 1 turn
Duration: Instant
You may prevent (1d6+Doctor Rank) damage to any single character this turn, except yourself. This ability cannot prevent self-inflicted damage.

So then Friendship is tied to healing, but Bravery lets the doctor actively stop the monsters from damaging the target at all. Which is arguably more important, but overuse will make you super-frail. And if the monsters know to shoot the medic first, you may be in trouble.

I think I like this template.

Perhaps we should have some roles though.

Roles: Doctor, Tea Party Guest, Hero, Sidekick, Soldier
Doctor
Basic Role
Stat Bonus +1 Friendship

The character is a doctor and may take Doctor abilities at the associated price. The character also gains the ability Do No Harm.

Tea Party Guest
Basic Role
Stat Bonus +1 Friendship

The character regularly attends tea parties and may take Tea Party Guest abilities at the associated price. The character also gains the ability Would You Like Some Tea.

Hero
Basic Role
Stat Bonus +1 Bravery

The character is a hero and may take Hero abilities at the associated price. The character also gains the ability Rally.

Sidekick
Basic Role
Stat Bonus +1 Friendship

The character is a sidekick and may take Sidekick abilities at the associated price. The character also gains the ability Got Your Back.

Soldier
Basic Role
Stat Bonus +1 Bravery

The character is a soldier and may take Soldier abilities at the associated price. The character also gains the ability Improved Attack.


And the aforementioned abilities:
Would You Like Some Tea?, Rally, Got Your Back, Improved Attack

Would You Like Some Tea? (Tea Party Guest)
Active Ability
Cost: 2 Friendship
Time: 1 Action (assuming 2 Actions/Turn)
Duration: Up to 1 Turn per Tea Party Guest rank (End At Will)
The character may spend 1 point of Friendship to offer the opponent some tea. While Would You Like Some Tea is in effect and for one turn thereafter, the opponent may not move or take any action besides drinking tea. The character is likewise immobilized, but may move as soon as the ability's duration expires.

Rally (Hero)
Active Ability
Cost: 1 Bravery
Time: 1 Action
Duration: 5 Turns
The character may spend 1 point of Bravery to grant all allies in the same area (Hero rank) temporary Bravery. The temporary Bravery is lost first - any remaining temporary Bravery is lost when the ability ends. Multiple uses of Rally do not stack.

Got Your Back (Sidekick)
Active Ability
Cost: 1 Friendship
Time: No Action
Duration: Instant
The character adds her Sidekick rank to a roll another character is making.

Improved Attack (Soldier, Hero)
Passive Ability

The character adds his Soldier or Hero rank to all damage rolls.


The way that works in my mind is that if you have the ability associated to a Role you have, it costs less to obtain. When obtaining a Role, you get an ability and a bonus to an attribute - this is probably as expensive as getting the ability unassociated and the attribute bonus, if not more so, but lets you get more abilities within the role at a reduced price.

asurai
2012-02-26, 07:55 PM
The thought of Guardians and the horrors being related their nature appeals to me. I had pondered the thought of a similar but different trio for guardians, and the idea of both parties having Imagination, as it is the essence which fuels them.
Fear seems to work fine largely as you describe it.
Power I am less satisfied with. Perhaps it is just the name, but having one stat describing the power of a monster, seems to invalidate many of the other stats. Also having it bleed together with imagination bothers me. Perhaps the last part of the trio could be something like Tenacity, ferocity or the like...
Where fear describes the monster impact on the psyche of the Guardians, this stat should be more linked to its physical might... is my thought.

I lack any great ideas for this, but I like the general direction.

Hmm... perhaps Malice could work?

I agree. I hadn't really any grand ideas at the time but felt I needed to get what was on my head out there at the time. I felt that Horrors got no love so I should come up with something for them since everyone else was focused on the Guardians.

The idea of the third stat being Tenacity or Ferocity seem appropriate, but for some reason don't entirely strike with me, personally. Possibly something like... Presence? To stand for how imposing physically it is as well as "real" it is and thus the more real it is the more powerful it is in the real world, and perhaps more so in the world that lies underneath the bed and in the closet? Food for thought.

Also I like the idea of the GM having to create their own Horrors and us giving a guide for them. While some may see it as tedious, it is also good to note that every child fears very, very, very different things. For example I have a 3 year old nephew who actually -is- afraid of bears. But yet is in love with spiders, dinosaurs, etc. And one should not expect for every type of fear to be covered in a bestiary of sorts.

On that note, perhaps once stats are allocated to a Horror they must also be given traits to describe what they are and what they're like? Like perhaps an example of a Horror trait would be "Creepy Crawly", for the arachnid in all of us.

Heliomance
2012-02-27, 07:41 AM
How I imagine the stats:

Bravery - directly analagous to HP or wounds. When you run out of bravery, you're out of the battle. Maybe have another stat, Will to Fight or something, that drops every time you completely run out of Bravery. If you run out of Will to Fight, you lose all animation and become no more than an animal-shaped pile of plush. Will to Fight can only be restored by spending Imagination, similar to how you can spend Willpower dots in WoD and buy them back. I'm not entirely averse to having a "cast from hit points" mechanic, but I'm not certain it's needed.

Friendship - a two tiered power stat. Steal from WoD - you have a permanent Friendship score, which gives you a pool of spendable points - call it Loyalty or something. The power of a given ability is based on your permanent Friendship, and most abilities require you to spend Loyalty. The maximum size of your Loyalty pool is based on your Friendship. Obviously names can be changed if necessary.

Imagination - this is actually a stat of the Child you belong to. Every Guardian belonging to a Child has the same Imagination, and more is granted each session, with more for victories and such, just like XP. You can invest Imagination (probably semi-permanently, after all, toys don't always keep the same roles in play forever) into traits and stats, for character advancement. Alternatively, you can invest it into affecting the world during play - investing a point of Imagination lets you declare that, say, the wardrobe has a mirror on the front of the door, or that there are building blocks in the toybox, things like that. As long as it's not been previously established to the contrary, and it's reasonable, it's fair game. Imagination invested like that is forevermore unavailable, but the change you made is persistent. The wardrobe will always have a mirror on it from that point on, but even if we alow retraining, the Imagination you spent on it is unavailable.

Some high-level effects will probably key off total Imagination score, but Imagination is also used to determine how powerful the monsters you fight are. After all, a more imaginative Child is a more tempting prize, and they can dream of more terrifying monsters. A high Imagination is a double-edged sword.

MysticMind
2012-02-27, 12:31 PM
Oh, a teddy bear game, funny idea ! You could create some races and classes as well:smallcool:

Xiander
2012-02-27, 04:09 PM
Oh, a teddy bear game, funny idea ! You could create some races and classes as well:smallcool:

Races and classes like in D&D? I honestly don't see that happening.

Traits will allow players to make something similar to a race to suit the image they have of their Guardian. Hopefully this will allow a player to make anything from the standard bear to stuffed snakes (and if your group finds it fitting action figures and warhammer models probably wouldn't be of the table either).

Classes will fall under the purview of roles. The exact nature of roles is still up in the air, but the basic idea this far is that any guardian can have multiple roles allowing him access to what abilities fall under the purview of these roles.

A question to all you lovely people contributing to the tread: How many different roles should one guardian be able to have?

A conservative answer would be two roles. This is restricting but ensures some focus of concept.

On the other end of the scale lies the posibility that one guardian could have an unlimited amount of roles, giving him access to lots and lots of abilities at the cost of less power.

What do you say?


How I imagine the stats:

Bravery - directly analagous to HP or wounds. When you run out of bravery, you're out of the battle. Maybe have another stat, Will to Fight or something, that drops every time you completely run out of Bravery. If you run out of Will to Fight, you lose all animation and become no more than an animal-shaped pile of plush. Will to Fight can only be restored by spending Imagination, similar to how you can spend Willpower dots in WoD and buy them back. I'm not entirely averse to having a "cast from hit points" mechanic, but I'm not certain it's needed.

Friendship - a two tiered power stat. Steal from WoD - you have a permanent Friendship score, which gives you a pool of spendable points - call it Loyalty or something. The power of a given ability is based on your permanent Friendship, and most abilities require you to spend Loyalty. The maximum size of your Loyalty pool is based on your Friendship. Obviously names can be changed if necessary.

Imagination - this is actually a stat of the Child you belong to. Every Guardian belonging to a Child has the same Imagination, and more is granted each session, with more for victories and such, just like XP. You can invest Imagination (probably semi-permanently, after all, toys don't always keep the same roles in play forever) into traits and stats, for character advancement. Alternatively, you can invest it into affecting the world during play - investing a point of Imagination lets you declare that, say, the wardrobe has a mirror on the front of the door, or that there are building blocks in the toybox, things like that. As long as it's not been previously established to the contrary, and it's reasonable, it's fair game. Imagination invested like that is forevermore unavailable, but the change you made is persistent. The wardrobe will always have a mirror on it from that point on, but even if we alow retraining, the Imagination you spent on it is unavailable.

Some high-level effects will probably key off total Imagination score, but Imagination is also used to determine how powerful the monsters you fight are. After all, a more imaginative Child is a more tempting prize, and they can dream of more terrifying monsters. A high Imagination is a double-edged sword.

I have a lot to say to this, most of it is going to be "I like that" :smallwink:
I'll try to take it in the order you presented it.

Bravery
Generally this is pretty much what I was thinking. I would probably rename "will to fight" into something shorter (I am thinking "spirit" or perhaps "fighting spirit"). "will to fight" sounds a little clunky to me.
About casting from HP, which powering abilities with bravery would amount to, I actually think it fits thematically. We might want to stay away from spending bravery to become an unstoppable battle-bear. However I do find the idea of spending bravery to prevent bravery damage to others fitting (be it by throwing yourself in front of a monsters blow or by fearlessly facing the foul, roaring beast, inspiring your friends to do the same). There are probably other places where Bravery as fuel is thematic, but it is late where I am, and none come to mind.

Friendship
WoD's wilpower system was my original inspiration for the BFI trio, and none of them fits the bill better than friendship. I have nothing to add to your description right now.
In short: I agree :smallbiggrin:


Imagination
I really like all these suggestions. Particularly the idea of defining the world by spending imagination.
The idea that improving stats is only semi permanent appeals to me. It fits the whimsical nature of a toys personality and abilities in a child's games. Perhaps a simple rule is that the last thing you improved is retractable, but spending Imagination to improve anything else, even temporarily, locks it in place. The explanation being that once a feature becomes a stable in a child's game, it has a tendency to stick for good. (Also I am imagining guardians having flashback to the games of the day every time they improve something in this way).

About Imagination being a stat of the child. It fits, it really really fits. However, the actual mechanics of it needs to be addressed. Are the Guardians siphoning imagination from the child to power themselves? Or is it rather that the child instinctually gifts them with it to help them in their fight? How does it work when the guardians in a group belong to different children (siblings perhaps)?

Finally, do we want imagination to be a stat with a permanent and a temporary value, like friendship, or would it be better represented as a pool of points (think Blood/essence/mana/glamour in WoD)?




Asurai and Ajadea, I have seen your posts, and i want to answer them, but the amount of fatigue induced typohs i am correcting right now makes me think i should sleep first. :smallwink:

asurai
2012-02-27, 05:59 PM
It's all cool, X. Get some rest. =3

Some more random babbling from me;

I like the idea of Guardians siphoning imagination from their kids. Since if it was the gift of the kid, then one wold imagine that they could very well take away the gift perhaps, thus rendering the job of the guardians somewhat useless in the face of the Horrors. Since not every kid would be unimaginably afraid. Some would be brave enough to face their fears. But if they're imagination is siphoned by teh guardians and horrors, then it makes a bit more sense espeically if we're going for a, "the children are unaware" type deal.

As for roles? Personally I would say maybe unlimited. However, make trees out of the roles. That is, make it so that the first level of a role is really not all that great, while when you get to the final step of a role, it is quite good. The amount of steps to go from first to last step in the role being dependant on what the leveling system is like and how fast it is, of course.

Though here is one thing I would say - if you take multiple roles, you can't have two of them be on the same step. So if you have 3 roles, for example, role 1 can be on step 3, role 2 would be on step 2, and role 3 would be on step 1, and you can't make role 2 or 3 go higher then role 1. It makes it so you get focused on a single thing when increasing your roles, and the incentive to keep making one role higher could be good enough to make them focus on one thing, or they can go for the jack of all trades type deal. Granted, this does mean there's a limit in a snese to how many roles you can have, but I think it'd work well enough. Ideas and opinions, everyone?

TechnoScrabble
2012-02-27, 06:20 PM
I love this idea. My siblings and I used to have a game where we made armor and weapons for toys and had them fight evil beasties in the 'Underbed', a land connected to all dark and scary places.

Heliomance
2012-02-28, 04:13 AM
I was thinking of friendship/loyalty as more like wyrd/glamour, potency/blood, gnosis/mana etc. than willpower. As for imagination, I'm thinking it's just a single pool of points. I also favor the idea of the Child unconciously gifting their Imagination. If the Guardians are siphoning it, it makes them less purely benevolent.

Whitney
2012-02-28, 11:14 AM
1) Perhaps a system where the child spontaneously creates a certain number of points of Imagination per day, and dice-rolls allocate them to Guardians and monsters, with successful defences skewing the odds in favour of Guardians, and disrupted sleep to monsters? Don't set the number in stone, give the DM a range to choose from based on whether he wants to play with a more or less imaginative child. I'd say only the most intelligent and dangerous of monsters can spend Imagination points consciously, so if you rule that the monsters don't use it up just by existing you have a steady rate of increasing difficulty and the players don't get bored as they keep getting stronger.

2) Give each Guardian a separate Imagination pool, representing how much attention he gets from the child, and limit Roles based on the size of that pool, so that if you spend below a particular limit, you lose Roles or at least points in a Role. Most of the time, most of the players would have a few points at the top that are spendable in-game without losing what they already have because it takes time to save up the Imagination for a new Role or Role point. Think of it like a bank account. Buying a new Role costs (N)i, and you have to maintain a minimum balance of +1i to keep it from vanishing.

3) But then if you decide to use both 1 and 2, spread the Guardian points around evenly after every night's sleep instead of awarding them directly based on how much each character did in the fight. Or at most, roll separately as you did when deciding how many points the Guardians got. If you punish the weaker members for being weaker, they will get weaker and weaker with every session and game balance is totally gone. It might be an accurate representation of how a child's mind works, but it's not so much fun for the players.

Imagination is too valuable to spend carelessly, but if you lose battles because you're hoarding it, the monsters get stronger faster than you do. It's a tricky balancing act.

Whitney

Xiander
2012-02-28, 04:10 PM
Hmm... perhaps something else?

Do No Harm (Doctor)
Active Ability
Cost: 1 Bravery
Time: 1 turn
Duration: Instant
You may prevent (1d6+Doctor Rank) damage to any single character this turn, except yourself. This ability cannot prevent self-inflicted damage.

So then Friendship is tied to healing, but Bravery lets the doctor actively stop the monsters from damaging the target at all. Which is arguably more important, but overuse will make you super-frail. And if the monsters know to shoot the medic first, you may be in trouble.

I think I like this template.

Perhaps we should have some roles though.

Roles: Doctor, Tea Party Guest, Hero, Sidekick, Soldier
Doctor
Basic Role
Stat Bonus +1 Friendship

The character is a doctor and may take Doctor abilities at the associated price. The character also gains the ability Do No Harm.

Tea Party Guest
Basic Role
Stat Bonus +1 Friendship

The character regularly attends tea parties and may take Tea Party Guest abilities at the associated price. The character also gains the ability Would You Like Some Tea.

Hero
Basic Role
Stat Bonus +1 Bravery

The character is a hero and may take Hero abilities at the associated price. The character also gains the ability Rally.

Sidekick
Basic Role
Stat Bonus +1 Friendship

The character is a sidekick and may take Sidekick abilities at the associated price. The character also gains the ability Got Your Back.

Soldier
Basic Role
Stat Bonus +1 Bravery

The character is a soldier and may take Soldier abilities at the associated price. The character also gains the ability Improved Attack.


And the aforementioned abilities:
Would You Like Some Tea?, Rally, Got Your Back, Improved Attack

Would You Like Some Tea? (Tea Party Guest)
Active Ability
Cost: 2 Friendship
Time: 1 Action (assuming 2 Actions/Turn)
Duration: Up to 1 Turn per Tea Party Guest rank (End At Will)
The character may spend 1 point of Friendship to offer the opponent some tea. While Would You Like Some Tea is in effect and for one turn thereafter, the opponent may not move or take any action besides drinking tea. The character is likewise immobilized, but may move as soon as the ability's duration expires.

Rally (Hero)
Active Ability
Cost: 1 Bravery
Time: 1 Action
Duration: 5 Turns
The character may spend 1 point of Bravery to grant all allies in the same area (Hero rank) temporary Bravery. The temporary Bravery is lost first - any remaining temporary Bravery is lost when the ability ends. Multiple uses of Rally do not stack.

Got Your Back (Sidekick)
Active Ability
Cost: 1 Friendship
Time: No Action
Duration: Instant
The character adds her Sidekick rank to a roll another character is making.

Improved Attack (Soldier, Hero)
Passive Ability

The character adds his Soldier or Hero rank to all damage rolls.


The way that works in my mind is that if you have the ability associated to a Role you have, it costs less to obtain. When obtaining a Role, you get an ability and a bonus to an attribute - this is probably as expensive as getting the ability unassociated and the attribute bonus, if not more so, but lets you get more abilities within the role at a reduced price.

I like these roles and abilities. They will of course have to be fine-tuned once we have the system in place, but the general tune fits.

About the function of roles, I like the thought of letting them be stats in themselves. The higher the value of a role the stronger powers related to it you can purchase. Some roles may overlap and give access to the same abilities, but generally each role should have a number of abilities attached.
The value of the ability could also determine the effectiveness of related abilities.




I agree. I hadn't really any grand ideas at the time but felt I needed to get what was on my head out there at the time. I felt that Horrors got no love so I should come up with something for them since everyone else was focused on the Guardians.

The idea of the third stat being Tenacity or Ferocity seem appropriate, but for some reason don't entirely strike with me, personally. Possibly something like... Presence? To stand for how imposing physically it is as well as "real" it is and thus the more real it is the more powerful it is in the real world, and perhaps more so in the world that lies underneath the bed and in the closet? Food for thought.

Also I like the idea of the GM having to create their own Horrors and us giving a guide for them. While some may see it as tedious, it is also good to note that every child fears very, very, very different things. For example I have a 3 year old nephew who actually -is- afraid of bears. But yet is in love with spiders, dinosaurs, etc. And one should not expect for every type of fear to be covered in a bestiary of sorts.

On that note, perhaps once stats are allocated to a Horror they must also be given traits to describe what they are and what they're like? Like perhaps an example of a Horror trait would be "Creepy Crawly", for the arachnid in all of us.

I'm still drawing blanks on a proper name for the physical part of the trio, still thinking though.

Giving the horrors traits and perhaps even roles seems like a good way of making them diverse while maintaining the resemblance to the Guardians.
The abilities granted to monsters could be more overtly magical in nature, and should definitely be much more sinister in tune. Stuff like intimidating roars and poisonous bites are fair game here.


I love this idea. My siblings and I used to have a game where we made armor and weapons for toys and had them fight evil beasties in the 'Underbed', a land connected to all dark and scary places.

Great. I am happy that my idea about a world linked to dark places makes sense to others as well.


I was thinking of friendship/loyalty as more like wyrd/glamour, potency/blood, gnosis/mana etc. than willpower. As for imagination, I'm thinking it's just a single pool of points. I also favor the idea of the Child unconciously gifting their Imagination. If the Guardians are siphoning it, it makes them less purely benevolent.

The thing about making it like willpower is that keeping it on a one to one scale, is easy to remember and adjust. As i see it the only reason to make it more like potency/blood would be to allow a character to have more loyalty than friendship.

About Imagination, I tend to agree that the guardians should be gifted it, while the Horrors try to steal it. It seems thematic that children protect themselves from monsters by using the very thing that that the monsters seek and hunger for.
Interesting this might make Guardians targets for some monsters...

ScrambledBrains
2012-02-28, 11:06 PM
Seeing as I rather like the tone of this project, I have a question about a potential addition. Namely, the kid who, while he doesn't have any direct knowledge of either the Guardians or Nightmares, still alters his room in the hope of aiding the former and harming/trapping the latter, through stratigically placed nightlights, barricades on the closet and, in certain highly paranoid cases, string and ropes used as triplines, and such. Any way someone smarter than me could think of to add this to the system?

Xiander
2012-02-29, 01:32 AM
Seeing as I rather like the tone of this project, I have a question about a potential addition. Namely, the kid who, while he doesn't have any direct knowledge of either the Guardians or Nightmares, still alters his room in the hope of aiding the former and harming/trapping the latter, through stratigically placed nightlights, barricades on the closet and, in certain highly paranoid cases, string and ropes used as triplines, and such. Any way someone smarter than me could think of to add this to the system?

It seems to me that this falls well within the bounds of what we discussed Imagination to be doing. :smallsmile:

ScrambledBrains
2012-02-29, 02:13 PM
It seems to me that this falls well within the bounds of what we discussed Imagination to be doing. :smallsmile:

Noted. Carry on. :smallbiggrin:

Archpaladin Zousha
2012-03-01, 12:37 AM
I've been following this idea for a little while, and while I can't help on the mechanical side of things, I have a few things I was thinking of tossing out here:

First off, I believe this picture to be relevant.

http://th06.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/030/7/0/random___tristan_the_bear_by_grim_kun-d4o3uqe.jpg
Second, I have a bit of an idea for potential non-monster antagonists, inspired by the Martin Mystery season 3 episode, Return of the Imaginary Friend:

I'll NEVER be alone again...

No one really knows why it happens. Some believe them to be Horrors in disguise, masquerading as allies to slip past the Guardians' defenses. Some believe they're created when a toy is consistently used by the Child as a villain in their stories and games. Some say it's just the result of a fragile connection between Child and Guardian that went bad. But whatever the cause, there is one truth, and it is one all Guardians fear: that one of their own may go mad and betray everything they stand for.

These twisted Guardians tend to appear as normal toys like their stable kin, but when angered they show their true natures, something like a frightening cross between a horror and a childhood toy. Their guiding motivation seems to be a cross between loneliness and hate. They crave the love of a Child, but at the same time feel anger or frustration at not being given this love, causing them to become vindictive towards them and to the Guardians that protect them.

They have many tactics. Some are tricksters, falling in with other bands of Guardians to get close to the child they protect. Some act as bizarre vigilantes, protecting a Child from Horrors as per their original duties, but also performing very Horror-like acts on those they perceive as coming between the Child and they, including parents, friends and other Guardians. Some are as terrible as any Horror, a toy the child fears even in the daytime.

Whenever one of these corrupted Guardians emerges, all Guardians everywhere are quick to go after it. Horrors are monstrous and wicked, to be sure, but evil masquerading as goodness is even more dangerous, and is a threat not just to one Child, but to all.

Why don't you LOVE ME?!

Admiral Squish
2012-03-02, 10:09 PM
Just checking in. Do we have a solid system now, or are we still trying to figure out what stats and such we need?

Heliomance
2012-03-02, 10:14 PM
Just checking in. Do we have a solid system now, or are we still trying to figure out what stats and such we need?

Still trying to figure out about stats. And we've barely touched the issue of whether we need stats other than Bravery, Friendship and Imagination.

Admiral Squish
2012-03-02, 11:53 PM
Bravery friendship and imagination are fine stats to have, but the teddies DO need other stats. Keep it simple though, probably just Power, Speed, and Wits/Intelligence/Smarts or something like that. Gives the toys a more personal touch.

Then I think out next priority should be traits and roles. We've got some roles worked out, but we really need to iron out the system for them before specifics.

So, I'm thinking you get two roles at first, but you can buy more with imagination. You have one rank in each when you start, but you can increase the rank with imagination. One of the roles is your primary role. Each role gives you a special bonus that you only get if it's your primary role. Usually something passive. Like, warrior could add your warrior rank to your attack rolls, monster could add your monster rank to your damage roll, doctor could heal an ally an extra 1d6 bravery when they use their friendship to un-cower an ally, stuff like that.

Then each rank should give other abilities. I think we should use friendship and MAYBE bravery to power these abilities. Like, using the doctor two ability costs 1 friendship. So on, so forth.

Traits should be immutable. they describe your toy's physical, immutable aspects. You get three on character creation. Stuff like Plastic Parts, which would make you tougher, or Talk Box, which would let you do cool things with speech, or Big, which describes an oversized toy. Maybe some traits which require other traits. Like Super-Sized, which makes your toy the size of a grownup and would require Big.

Xiander
2012-03-03, 11:05 AM
I'll NEVER be alone again...

No one really knows why it happens. Some believe them to be Horrors in disguise, masquerading as allies to slip past the Guardians' defenses. Some believe they're created when a toy is consistently used by the Child as a villain in their stories and games. Some say it's just the result of a fragile connection between Child and Guardian that went bad. But whatever the cause, there is one truth, and it is one all Guardians fear: that one of their own may go mad and betray everything they stand for.

These twisted Guardians tend to appear as normal toys like their stable kin, but when angered they show their true natures, something like a frightening cross between a horror and a childhood toy. Their guiding motivation seems to be a cross between loneliness and hate. They crave the love of a Child, but at the same time feel anger or frustration at not being given this love, causing them to become vindictive towards them and to the Guardians that protect them.

They have many tactics. Some are tricksters, falling in with other bands of Guardians to get close to the child they protect. Some act as bizarre vigilantes, protecting a Child from Horrors as per their original duties, but also performing very Horror-like acts on those they perceive as coming between the Child and they, including parents, friends and other Guardians. Some are as terrible as any Horror, a toy the child fears even in the daytime.

Whenever one of these corrupted Guardians emerges, all Guardians everywhere are quick to go after it. Horrors are monstrous and wicked, to be sure, but evil masquerading as goodness is even more dangerous, and is a threat not just to one Child, but to all.

Why don't you LOVE ME?!

This is certainly something I could see fitting the setting. And betrayal is a powerful tool. This does however press the question: How many guardians pr child?

I have been assuming that only the closest and most loved toys awaken to the state of guardian. Other toys might possibly be temporarily awoken by spending Imagination, but would generally be inanimate.

What do you guys think?


Bravery friendship and imagination are fine stats to have, but the teddies DO need other stats. Keep it simple though, probably just Power, Speed, and Wits/Intelligence/Smarts or something like that. Gives the toys a more personal touch.

Agreed.
I think power, agility and smarts are fine names which covers just about everything I want players to roll for in a game like this.


Then I think out next priority should be traits and roles. We've got some roles worked out, but we really need to iron out the system for them before specifics.

So, I'm thinking you get two roles at first, but you can buy more with imagination. You have one rank in each when you start, but you can increase the rank with imagination. One of the roles is your primary role. Each role gives you a special bonus that you only get if it's your primary role. Usually something passive. Like, warrior could add your warrior rank to your attack rolls, monster could add your monster rank to your damage roll, doctor could heal an ally an extra 1d6 bravery when they use their friendship to un-cower an ally, stuff like that.

Then each rank should give other abilities. I think we should use friendship and MAYBE bravery to power these abilities. Like, using the doctor two ability costs 1 friendship. So on, so forth.

Again I pretty much agree with you. I think I like the idea of a primary role, which gives extra benefits.
How many roles you start with and at what level is something that could wary. I think two roles at one each is a fine baseline though.

Getting one ability pr level of a role is a fine and intuitive way of dealing with abilities.

I have been thinking that roles might double as our skill system as well. That is, when rolling for something you can add your role value, if your role would apply to the situation. This of course means that roles need to be rather well defined... But the idea works in my head at the very least.


Traits should be immutable. they describe your toy's physical, immutable aspects. You get three on character creation. Stuff like Plastic Parts, which would make you tougher, or Talk Box, which would let you do cool things with speech, or Big, which describes an oversized toy. Maybe some traits which require other traits. Like Super-Sized, which makes your toy the size of a grownup and would require Big.

Exactly what I want traits to be.

radmelon
2012-03-03, 02:14 PM
Yeah, Power, agility, and smarts seem like good ability scores.

Admiral Squish
2012-03-03, 04:19 PM
I also don't want to fall into the trap of having higher-level abilities being beefed-up versions of lower-level abilities. Abilities should scale with your rank, but the scaling should be part of the ability.

Xiander
2012-03-03, 06:01 PM
I also don't want to fall into the trap of having higher-level abilities being beefed-up versions of lower-level abilities. Abilities should scale with your rank, but the scaling should be part of the ability.

Agreed.

In fact I am wondering whether abilities should even have discernible tiers. Personally I see a lot of merit in all abilities being at about the same powerlevel, and all of them scaling with their associated role.

Admiral Squish
2012-03-03, 06:28 PM
Agreed.

In fact I am wondering whether abilities should even have discernible tiers. Personally I see a lot of merit in all abilities being at about the same powerlevel, and all of them scaling with their associated role.

Hmmm... I like this idea. Have it so each time you purchase a new rank, you can pick a new ability. Allows each bear to be completely different, even within the same roles.

So, instead of rank two giving you x ability, you get to pick an ability off a list each time you gain a rank in that role. Perhaps we should have some abilities that require X ranks in the role before you can take them, however.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-03-03, 11:33 PM
This is so awesome that I bookmarked the thread. Perhaps the system could be modified version of the one which powers Little Fears.

Xiander
2012-03-04, 03:45 AM
Hmmm... I like this idea. Have it so each time you purchase a new rank, you can pick a new ability. Allows each bear to be completely different, even within the same roles.

So, instead of rank two giving you x ability, you get to pick an ability off a list each time you gain a rank in that role. Perhaps we should have some abilities that require X ranks in the role before you can take them, however.

Exactly what I meant. I put a lot of priority into making it possible to make the guardians diverse, even within their roles. I mean, no to bears are alike. The same bear might be different in the hands of two siblings ;)



This is so awesome that I bookmarked the thread. Perhaps the system could be modified version of the one which powers Little Fears.

By now, we have large chunks of the system laid out. Do read the entire thread and chime in with suggestions :smallwink:

There are some things we do need to agree upon before going to specifics however.
First there is the matter of a resolution system. The basic argument lies between a dice+modifier system and a dicepool system. Personally I favor Heliomances sugestion of a dicepool system using D6, where 5 is a success and 6 counts twice. I am however happy to hear arguments for anything else.

Another thing is a matter of scale. We pretty much all agree about how different stats work, but what kind of numbers are we working with? Is the standard going to be a Guardian with 2 bravery, 3 friendship and 1 imagination? Or perhaps ten times as much?
Personally I don't really have any idea what might be a fitting scale...

Yitzi
2012-03-04, 08:31 AM
I think a dice pool system works better for narrative-based play, because you can get truly impressive effects for high success numbers, and this system probably should have narrative-based play, as that fits the setting and theme very well.

As for the scale, it boils down to a question of simplicity opposed to the ability to make finer distinctions, so I'd say start by assuming everything is on the order of 1 and allow fractional values, and then scale depending on what sort of fractions you're usually looking at.

Heliomance
2012-03-04, 06:48 PM
Assuming we're going for dice pool, that immediately ballparks the scale. Every point in a stat is a die in the pool, so the question becomes how big do we want out dice pools to be?

Yitzi
2012-03-04, 09:31 PM
Not so much as to be annoying to roll, but enough to allow for truly impressive results. I'd say a basis of about 3 dice, increasable to as many as 10 via spending resources, and static abilities increase the chance of success. That way, the most impressive results are only available when you actually put something into it, which (in light of the bravery/friendship/imagination idea) makes for the general theme I think we're aiming for.

One of the main goals of the system, as far as I see it, is that Crowning Moments of Heartwarming and Crowning Moments of Awesome should go hand-in-hand. A dice pool mechanic that demands sacrifice for extraordinary results should fit that nicely.

Heliomance
2012-03-05, 06:38 AM
The expected value of the proposed dice pool system is precisely half the number of dice rolled. Is there anyone here that actually likes stats enough to run up a probability distribution table showing the probabilities of getting X successes on Y dice? If not, I think I have the knowledge to do it, but it'll take me a while to work it out and get round to it.

EDIT: Internet to the rescue!

Chance of exactly X successes (percent)

{table=head]Value|1 die|2 dice|3 dice|4 dice|5 dice|6 dice|7 dice|8 dice|9 dice|10 dice
0|66.67|44.44|29.63|19.75|13.17|8.78|5.85|3.90|2.6 0|1.73
1|16.67|22.22|22.22|19.75|16.46|13.17|10.24|7.80|5 .85|4.34
2|16.67|25.00|27.78|27.16|24.69|21.40|17.92|14.63| 11.71|9.21
3|0|5.56|11.57|16.05|18.52|19.20|18.56|17.07|15.12 |13.01
4|0|2.78|6.94|11.19|14.66|16.98|18.08|18.14|17.38| 16.05
5|0|0|1.39|4.01|7.21|10.34|12.92|14.72|15.68|15.87
6|0|0|0.46|1.70|3.67|6.09|8.61|10.91|12.75|14.01
7|0|0|0|0.31|1.16|2.58|4.46|6.56|8.65|10.50
8|0|0|0|0.08|0.39|1.06|2.15|3.61|5.32|7.11
9|0|0|0|0|0.06|0.30|0.81|1.64|2.79|4.19
10|0|0|0|0|0.01|0.08|0.28|0.68|1.33|2.24
11|0|0|0|0|0|0.01|0.07|0.23|0.54|1.05
12|0|0|0|0|0|0|0.02|0.07|0.20|0.44
13|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0.02|0.06|0.16
14|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0.02|0.05
15|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0.02[/table]

Chance of at least X successes (percent)

{table=head]Value|1 die|2 dice|3 dice|4 dice|5 dice|6 dice|7 dice|8 dice|9 dice|10 dice
1|33.33|55.56|70.37|80.25|86.83|91.22|94.15|96.10| 97.40|98.27
2|16.67|33.33|48.15|60.49|70.37|78.05|83.90|88.29| 91.55|93.93
3|0|8.33|20.37|33.33|45.68|56.65|65.98|73.66|79.84 |84.72
4|0|2.78|8.80|17.28|27.16|37.45|47.42|56.59|64.72| 71.71
5|0|0|1.85|6.10|12.50|20.47|29.33|38.45|47.35|55.6 6
6|0|0|0.46|2.08|5.29|10.13|16.41|23.73|31.66|39.79
7|0|0|0|0.39|1.62|4.04|7.80|12.82|18.91|25.78
8|0|0|0|0.08|0.46|1.46|3.34|6.26|10.26|15.27
9|0|0|0|0|0.08|0.40|1.18|2.64|4.94|8.16
10|0|0|0|0|0.01|0.10|0.38|1.00|2.15|3.97
11|0|0|0|0|0|0.02|0.09|0.32|0.82|1.73
12|0|0|0|0|0|0|0.02|0.09|0.28|0.68
13|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0.02|0.08|0.24
14|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0.02|0.08
15|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0.02[/table]
Source: http://anydice.com/program/f31

Xiander
2012-03-05, 07:39 AM
The expected value of the proposed dice pool system is precisely half the number of dice rolled. Is there anyone here that actually likes stats enough to run up a probability distribution table showing the probabilities of getting X successes on Y dice? If not, I think I have the knowledge to do it, but it'll take me a while to work it out and get round to it.

I'll be honest, I am not really a numbers person. If anyone has an interest and the necesary skills to run simulations, I would be overjoyed.
I am thinking the biggest plausible dicepool should be around ten dice, with the standard dicepool being five to seven. This isn't really founded on anything other than wimsy though.

On an unrelated note, I am very happy that you all help me make something of this project. I really try to keep it going and keep adding to it, but i am in a low energy slump at the moment. So everytime someone else posts something constructive, it makes me very happy.


For now we have the general skeleton of the system. Where do we go from here? One thing I would like to see more of is suggestions for specific effects of roles and abilities. Further, we do need to get down some ideas about monster stats, and while I am trying to make that make sense, it keeps slipping from me...

The Bandicoot
2012-03-05, 08:52 AM
I think further fleshing out the stats would be the best thing to do now. I mean roles are cool and all but we need that baseline of what the stats are how exactly they work and other such things. It's hard to design clothes if you don't have a mannequin to put the clothes on.

Yitzi
2012-03-05, 09:45 AM
Note that just because you use a dice pool doesn't mean you have to do "d6's, 5 is a success, 6 is a double success". I'd say a better approach is that the success threshold starts at 6 and reduces by 1 for each time you improve the ability (to a minimum of 2), and once you boost the threshold to 3 a 6 counts as a double success.

Whitney
2012-03-05, 02:04 PM
Roles mentioned so far have been:

Doctor (heal other Guardians)
Hero (grant allies temporary Bravery)
Monster (bonus to damage)
Sidekick (boost another Guardian's skills)
Soldier (bonus to attack)
Tea Party Guest (distract monsters with social graces)
Warrior (maybe the same as soldier?)

Others that might make sense and/or be fun to play:

Astronaut (spacesuit protects against toxic attacks)
Confidant (knows the Child's secrets)
Cowboy (good against groups of small monsters)
Explorer (knows the room perfectly, never gets confused)
Fireman (bonus to Power, good with ladders and poles)
Flyer (can fly, bonus to Agility)
Inventor (can improvise monster-traps)
Ninja (sneaky, bonus to Agility?)
Policeman (make the monsters play fair)
Private Eye (find the monster's weakness)
Teacher (bonus to Smarts, share skills with others)

Anyone wanna suggest some more, or come up with better ideas for these ones?

Whitney

radmelon
2012-03-05, 02:08 PM
These look like good starting places, but naturally some thought will have to be put into building them.

Admiral Squish
2012-03-05, 03:01 PM
I dunno. It's a nice list, bt some of them will be real hard to develop into full-fledged roles, you know? Each one's going to need it's own list of abilities to choose from. Astronaut's a pretty specific field. Ninja might work, as could cowboy. Maybe a gunner of some sort? I dunno about flyer as a role. Maybe flight should be a trait? Or a trait-pair since it's so useful?

Archpaladin Zousha
2012-03-05, 03:14 PM
This is certainly something I could see fitting the setting. And betrayal is a powerful tool. This does however press the question: How many guardians pr child?

I have been assuming that only the closest and most loved toys awaken to the state of guardian. Other toys might possibly be temporarily awoken by spending Imagination, but would generally be inanimate.

What do you guys think?
Technically it's less about the betrayal angle and more about madness, that they're so desperate for the love of a child that they're willing to hurt others and even the Child to get it. They wouldn't really view themselves as traitors and certainly don't become card-carrying villain types like actual horrors. Throughout it all they believe they're protecting whatever Child they're victimizing, doing their job as a Guardian. They're just too far gone to realize the damage they're doing in the process.

radmelon
2012-03-05, 04:35 PM
Actually, yeah. A lot of those ARE a tad too specific. The concepts are fine, but the names need to be genericized. Astronaut could be expanded to include robots, for example.

SamBurke
2012-03-05, 04:46 PM
Space-person? Stupid sounding, I know, but it encompasses astronauts, aliens, robots, and the like....

Sci-fi?

radmelon
2012-03-05, 04:50 PM
Or even something as vague as "Artificial".

Admiral Squish
2012-03-05, 05:52 PM
I'm thinking we're going to need about ten abilities for each role. Nice round number, not WAY too much work, and it keeps things fair. Maximum rank in a role would be about five, so we shouldn't have too much overlap.

Here's my take on the list.

{table=head]Role|Basic theme
Doctor|Heals allies
Monster|Damage and toughness
Soldier|Accuracy and skill
Hero|Defense and leadership
Warrior|All-rounder
Tea Party Guest|Inflicts effects on enemies, buffs on allies
Cowboy|Ropin', shootin', ridin'.
Explorer|Movement and utility
Ninja|Sneaking and martial arts
Scientist|Traps, knowledge, gadgets
Spacer|Robot/astronaut/alien...
Rescuer|Fireman/policeman/EMT[/table]

SamBurke
2012-03-05, 06:45 PM
I want to play this game, right here, right now.

That is awesome.

Heliomance
2012-03-05, 07:13 PM
Note that just because you use a dice pool doesn't mean you have to do "d6's, 5 is a success, 6 is a double success". I'd say a better approach is that the success threshold starts at 6 and reduces by 1 for each time you improve the ability (to a minimum of 2), and once you boost the threshold to 3 a 6 counts as a double success.

That's a LOT harder to eyeball the probabilities for. What's your problem with 5s as success and 6 as two? Then you simply roll as many dice as you have in the appropriate stat (perhaps plus an appropriate trait) and count how many successes you got. Much easier.

Yitzi
2012-03-05, 11:02 PM
That's a LOT harder to eyeball the probabilities for.

Not really; you still can use linearity of expectation to get the expected number. Calculating the exact probabilities is somewhat harder, but even with "5 is success, 6 is two" it's easier to use a program.


What's your problem with 5s as success and 6 as two? Then you simply roll as many dice as you have in the appropriate stat (perhaps plus an appropriate trait) and count how many successes you got. Much easier.

Because then there is no qualitative difference between merely being really good at something and using the power of Bravery, Friendship, and Imagination to go beyond your limits. Whereas with what I proposed the high-success results are not possible via mere skill.

Heliomance
2012-03-06, 02:12 AM
Bear in mind that simplicity is a major design goal here. I guess you could have spending friendship change the success threshold, but it would be easier to just have it either increase the dice pool or grant automatic successes. We could also steal the idea of exceptional successes from WoD, and have spending friendship lower the threshold for an exceptional success.

Xiander
2012-03-06, 05:27 AM
I'm thinking we're going to need about ten abilities for each role. Nice round number, not WAY too much work, and it keeps things fair. Maximum rank in a role would be about five, so we shouldn't have too much overlap.

Here's my take on the list.

{table=head]Role|Basic theme
Doctor|Heals allies
Monster|Damage and toughness
Soldier|Accuracy and skill
Hero|Defense and leadership
Warrior|All-rounder
Tea Party Guest|Inflicts effects on enemies, buffs on allies
Cowboy|Ropin', shootin', ridin'.
Explorer|Movement and utility
Ninja|Sneaking and martial arts
Scientist|Traps, knowledge, gadgets
Spacer|Robot/astronaut/alien...
Rescuer|Fireman/policeman/EMT[/table]

This looks very promising. I am torn between wanting generic names for roles, and wanting childlike names for them. However, the roles on this list works rather well for me.

I would like to add a wiseman/fatherfigure. It is a figure often represented in childrens stories, and i know i had one of my bears be wiser and more knowledgeable than all the others.




Not really; you still can use linearity of expectation to get the expected number. Calculating the exact probabilities is somewhat harder, but even with "5 is success, 6 is two" it's easier to use a program.


Because then there is no qualitative difference between merely being really good at something and using the power of Bravery, Friendship, and Imagination to go beyond your limits. Whereas with what I proposed the high-success results are not possible via mere skill.

I have a good deal of experience with dicepool systems, and my observation is that the systems with stable difficulties (for example new world of darkness) are much easier to understand, and much smoother to play than the ones with variable difficulties.
I think the best thing we can do is set a difficulty of 4+ or 5+, and then make friendship-spending affect the number of successes needed, the possibility of actions, and possibly let it enable you to count sixes twice.
The idea about breaking the bounds of possibility is probably better represented by having a cap on what you can succeed in, which can be pressed upwards by spending.

Yitzi
2012-03-06, 10:17 AM
The idea about breaking the bounds of possibility is probably better represented by having a cap on what you can succeed in, which can be pressed upwards by spending.

Sounds good. Hard caps have their own problems, but this probably is better anyway due to simplicity.

Heliomance
2012-03-07, 02:23 PM
I would like to add a wiseman/fatherfigure. It is a figure often represented in childrens stories, and i know i had one of my bears be wiser and more knowledgeable than all the others.

Please tell us a story, Old Bear... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4GpAJOEXtc)

Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-03-08, 04:40 PM
I have some free time, and would be willing to run a playtest. If the game can be mostly playable within the next couple of weeks, I could run it with my friends and say how it went.

Xiander
2012-03-09, 08:21 AM
Please tell us a story, Old Bear... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4GpAJOEXtc)

Thank you :)
A youtube clip says more than a thousand words.



I have some free time, and would be willing to run a playtest. If the game can be mostly playable within the next couple of weeks, I could run it with my friends and say how it went.

Wow, that's really cool.
We have a big part of the general mechanics in place, what we need is to actually link them to dicerolls (we are getting there), polish it of, and then come up with specifics for roles and traits. And of course, rules for adversaries.

So what do the rest of you say? is it manageable?

Heliomance
2012-03-09, 11:40 AM
We also need to work out character creation and advancement. Also things like what we want to require rolls for - do we need some equivalent of skill checks? How will untrained rolls work, trying to do something not covered by your roles?

I too will be playtesting this as soon as it's ready. Handily, I'm already involved in a weekly spot for trying out new systems, one shot in a different system each week :)
I'll just run a game of this at some point in that.

Oh yes. We also need a name for the system. Ghosts and Guardians? Toyboxes and Teddybears? Guardians: The Defense? Childhood Guardians? Night Watch? Something else entirely?

Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-03-09, 02:00 PM
I like Sentinel: the Guardians as a name. The game seems like it could take place in the same universe as World of Darkness. This doesn't have to be explicitly stated, but it can be implied, however blatantly or fleetingly.

asurai
2012-03-09, 04:16 PM
Personally always thought Teddy Bear Heroes sounded good for the name. Even if it's come to the point where there's more then teddy bears. It, at least to me anyways, has a nice ring to it.

Admiral Squish
2012-03-11, 01:09 PM
Naming is hard. I don't think we should go into the 'X: the Y' thing, since there's already a lot of similarity between what we've got and WoD. I don't want this to just be a pared-down version of the WoD system.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-03-11, 03:31 PM
Last night, I ran a quick game based on what you guys have so far, and filled in the gaps. It went amazingly well. One of the players actually cried during one of the scarier parts. And this is an adult who doesn't cry often.

We used Courage, Cunning, and Friendship as the three core stats, and a sice pool system stolen from NWoD. Characters didn't use weapons in the traditional sense, but instead used portable sources of light, which damaged monsters.

The teddy bears ventured into a cursed nightmare-realm through a portal in the closet, and navigated an ever-shifting maze of a thousand horrors in order to confront the Boogeyman, who was tormenting the child they had sworn to protect. Before the end, each of the teddy bears gave into the choking gloom that pervaded the place and were swallowed by the darkness.

SamBurke
2012-03-11, 03:40 PM
I DEMAND A COMPLETE WRITE UP OF THAT SESSION.

NAO.

That sounds really cool!

Admiral Squish
2012-03-11, 03:53 PM
I DEMAND A COMPLETE WRITE UP OF THAT SESSION.

NAO.

That sounds really cool!

Seconded! IT MUST BE HAD!

Xiander
2012-03-11, 04:24 PM
Seconded! IT MUST BE HAD!

Thirded. Wee must see this!

Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-03-11, 05:39 PM
I DEMAND A COMPLETE WRITE UP OF THAT SESSION.

NAO.

That sounds really cool!

Seconded! IT MUST BE HAD!

Thirded. Wee must see this!

Alright, then. We were all tired when it happened, so I don't recall the details of everything that happened, but I'll do my best. If any of you would run a game based on my own, I would be honoured.

The system we used was a simplified version of NWoD. We used D6s instead of D10s, because those were what we had on hand. A 5 earned a success, and a 6 earned a success as well as a re-roll. Characters had two "resource" stats to keep track of: Stitching (similar to Hit Points in other games), and Hope (which represented emotional reserves).

There were no physical weapons. Instead, we had flashlights, lanterns, torches, and the like. These implaments could not only be used to see, but also blasted at monsters, dealing damage. How much life was left in these things needed to be kept track of. Torches burned out, flashlights went before dying, and so on.

What kind of abilities the teddy bears had were determined by how the child connected with them. The teddy bear the child talked to could comfort other bears, restoring Hope. The teddy bear the child used as a pillow had limited mind-reading abilities. You get the idea.

Every night, monsters would come into the child's room and invade his dreams. The bears fought bravely, but every night the onslaught became worse, and they knew they were fighting a losing battle. After the oldest teddy bear was murdered by a cackling night-fiend, his sorrow-ridden friends swore revenge. They would have to root out the evil at its source.

The next night, the remaining two bears ventured into the closet, which at night lead to a cursed, fog-shrouded dream world filled with crawling horrors and murky manifestations of evil made of darkness and cold. These entities were harmed - or even killed - by the light; but as hope and batteries waned, they started to close in.

The terrified bears fled through the winding nightmare maze. After one was injured, his companion had to drag him. He could still operate a flashlight, but he world never walk again.

Cloying at the bear's hearts was the solid darkness of the place, which would try to snuff out any wholesome creature. It invaded their minds and they souls, flashing them images of horrible things happening to the child who was the centre of their existence.

When all hope had left the bears, the darkness closed in and swallowed them.

Whitney
2012-03-11, 11:07 PM
Wow.

I was hoping that this game system would lend itself to upbeat games, but... wow.

Whitney

Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-03-11, 11:14 PM
I think the game should be flexible enough to be either upbeat or horrific.

asurai
2012-03-12, 02:08 AM
That was quite the intriguing read. And while I agree it should be able to support both. I admit I myself had always imagined this being a game where in the odds of great peril and danger, your courage and bravery could get you through.

For example - say a bear is faced with some kind of nightmare abomination the likes of which he's never seen before and is many times more larger then the bear is. He's by himself - however he has the couarge of his friends and that he knowsh is kid is counting on him and using that he's able to rush into battle and somehow come out victorious via means of the bear being able to overcome all odds, or the sheer amount of hope in him was able to drive away and or weaken the beast.

Actually idea - what about a Hope stat or derivative of some sort that the toys can use to weaken the nightmares?

Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-03-12, 02:26 AM
I think the three best things which came out of my interpretation were hit points being called Stitching, hope as a resource, and light sources as weapons.

I really don't like the idea of classes. Character creation should be more organic.

Heliomance
2012-03-12, 04:56 AM
Still not fond of the idea of physical hit points at all, though I agree that Stitching is a good name for them if they make it in. I'd rather just have Bravery, though.

gunnar11
2012-03-12, 10:19 AM
Been following this for quite some time, enjoying the discussion. I must say: you guys are doing a great job! Now I wonder: What is the use of stitching points? The nightmares are more something of a mental threat, aren't they?
You could implement some sort of 'mental health', before the bears 'die'.

Also: you could make classes, and implement the idea from the game just described. Every bear could change classes each night, as the child uses them for something different each day/night. Just my opinion

SamBurke
2012-03-12, 10:44 AM
We're really shying away from classes as such. Roles, perhaps, but not classes: it feels too much like a game and less like a story that you told during your childhood.

Admiral Squish
2012-03-14, 10:51 AM
First of all, that story is moderately terrifying.

Now, to business. There's still much to be done, here. *cracks whip*

Whitney
2012-03-14, 04:38 PM
Have we settled on all of the basic stats?

I know the last versions I heard mentioned were Bravery, Friendship, Imagination as spendable point pools and Power, Agility, Smarts as single values.

What are we looking at as the point spread on those for a starting character? 1d4? 2d8? Point buy system up to a sum total of 40?

Whitney

Heliomance
2012-03-14, 07:19 PM
Definitely a deterministic system. I'm not fond of randomness in chargen, it can completely ruin character concepts.

Admiral Squish
2012-03-14, 07:57 PM
I think we should weight the bravery/friendship stats so they have more endurance. I'm thinking the power/speed/smarts stats should be between 0 and 10. Average at five or so.

Zale
2012-03-16, 10:11 AM
*Ahem*

This idea is very interesting. I once was in a roleplay with something similar to this. My character was a clever rag-doll who's child cast her as the clothes making servant girl to a pretty porcelain doll. While she was very pretty, the porcelain doll was none too smart, so the rag-doll often ended up helping her mistress through anything that required a modicum of intelligence.

Being a Clever Doll with Needlework Skills comes in handy when you and most of your companions are made of fabric and stuffing..

Whitney
2012-03-16, 01:32 PM
So say 25 points to assign, each one buying 1 Power/Agility/Smarts or 2 Bravery/Friendship?

Whitney

Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-03-16, 02:37 PM
So say 25 points to assign, each one buying 1 Power/Agility/Smarts or 2 Bravery/Friendship?

Whitney

Sounds pretty solid.

Heliomance
2012-03-16, 08:22 PM
Maximums at character creation? And what about traits and roles?

And we do still need a name. I think I favour either Guardians of Dreams, or Night Knights.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-03-16, 09:19 PM
And we do still need a name. I think I favour either Guardians of Dreams, or Night Knights.

How about: Patchwork Protectors?

Calmar
2012-03-17, 10:53 AM
Some thoughts that came to my mind while reading through the thread...

In my opinion, the protectors and the nightmares shouldn't be all mere products of the Child's mind. For me, that would diminish the scale of the story and the importance of the protagonists too much. It should be plain fact and nature of the game world that there are scary things out there intent on tormenting helpless children; and that between these nightmarish things and their prey there is one line of defense: The Teddy Bears, plushies, dolls, and other favourite toys that staunchly stand watch against anything that would harm their Child.

It has been agreed to limit the players to all kings of cuddly toys, hasn't it? That's basically what I'd suggest. Resourceful brick men, bold action figures, fast RC cars, plastic animals, etc. may be cool toys, but they are not what a child takes to bed and clings to when afraid of monsters. As someone already pointed out, these are best suited to support the protectors as NPCs (I imagine a brick castle on the window sill watching out for things in the night, fire trucks used for quick travel through dangerous territory and to overcome obstacles, army men patrolling the borders of shadowy corners, etc.).

Something I think needs further examination is what kind of adventures the plushies will actually have. Mostly holding one place, fending off monsters mostly passively doesn't sound suffiecient over a longer time. While that image in the first post is very inspiring, I think the battle for the Bed should only happen when a truly horrifying nightmare attacks that the protectors weren't able to stop earlier, sort of a boss-battle.
Twilight Muse and others mentioned the realm of nightmares. Are the Room and the world beyond Bed and closet the only areas seen?

Possibly the nightmares should have a larger goal beyond simply causing fear, something that warrants stories where the protectors venture to other parts of the house, the nightmare realm, or possibly even to the world outside the house (rescue a doll that has [mistakenly?/on purpose?] been thrown on the trash and bring her back to her child?).

gunnar11
2012-03-17, 11:44 AM
I second him. I was also thinking on the beyond the bed subject: why not make it a 'get back to the bed before the nightmares attack at night' kind of adventure. They'd have some days to get back to their child, until nightmares attack with their full army.

Something toystory like maybe.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-03-17, 12:24 PM
I really don't like the idea of the players being able to play toys other than teddy bears. It feels too much like a race or class system, and erodes the aesthetic.

Also, I'm working on an RPG system for a project of my own, and you may want to check it out. You can find my incomplete draft here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1emvEF2lF7cFLcFLJEkXWXeb71Yq7T6uULOyCIuNHpKk/edit). Feel free to take anything from it and incorporate it into the game.

Calmar
2012-03-17, 03:07 PM
I really don't like the idea of the players being able to play toys other than teddy bears. It feels too much like a race or class system, and erodes the aesthetic.

I think allowing all kinds of plushies lends credibility to the game, because how many teddy bears does one child alone have? I did not have several stuffed animals of one kind.

Xiander, could you maybe update the first post to list all the features that are included in the game so far?

Another question: Would it be possible to play a pillow? :smallbiggrin:

Xiander
2012-03-17, 04:41 PM
I think allowing all kinds of plushies lends credibility to the game, because how many teddy bears does one child alone have? I did not have several stuffed animals of one kind.

Xiander, could you maybe update the first post to list all the features that are included in the game so far?

Another question: Would it be possible to play a pillow? :smallbiggrin:

About the other-than-teddy-bear-toys question, I think the best thing to do is write the system with a focus on teddys and plushies, but not outright disallowing other kinds of toys. That way the one who absolutely must play a block-man or a firetruck can do that, an more puritan players (personally guilty of that), can stick with plush toys.
I do think there should be room for toy giraffes. (And i don't feel like outright outlawing action-figures)

Regarding point buy; giving 25 points which counts double for bravery and friendship (i like the idea of Imagination being earned not bought, I have some arguments, but unless someone calls me on it i'll save them) means the average Guardian will have 5 in every stat (10 in bravery and friendship). I am thinking I might want it a bit lower... not really sure.
Does anyone have any observation as to what this would mean for dice-pools?
What do you think of the idea of making a world of darkness-like priority system? (not sure exactly how, but a system that makes sure you can't shaft friendship completely and be a monster on your do-stuff-stats, or other such shenanigans).


I have poor time now, but I will look into updating the first post as soon as I get time.

Yitzi
2012-03-18, 09:03 AM
Another question: Would it be possible to play a pillow? :smallbiggrin:

Only if the pillow has a personality in the Child's imagination.

Admiral Squish
2012-03-18, 11:12 AM
Only if the pillow has a personality in the Child's imagination.

Maybe one 'a them pillow-pets.

Whitney
2012-03-18, 11:13 AM
Okay, lower points overall, with a balancing mechanism to keep them from going too high. How about the first point in every category costs 1, and the price goes up 1 after every three, or six for Bravery/Friendship.

A totally generic character built on the same 25 would have 3/3/3 7/7 or 4/4/4 5/5. It would be physically possible to hit 10 on Power or Agility or Smarts, but that would cost 22 of the starting 25, and leave you with crippling weakness basically everywhere else. Not a choice I expect most players would go for, and one that could be explicitly house-ruled out if necessary.

Whitney

Admiral Squish
2012-03-18, 04:12 PM
Okay, lower points overall, with a balancing mechanism to keep them from going too high. How about the first point in every category costs 1, and the price goes up 1 after every three, or six for Bravery/Friendship.

A totally generic character built on the same 25 would have 3/3/3 7/7 or 4/4/4 5/5. It would be physically possible to hit 10 on Power or Agility or Smarts, but that would cost 22 of the starting 25, and leave you with crippling weakness basically everywhere else. Not a choice I expect most players would go for, and one that could be explicitly house-ruled out if necessary.

Whitney

I liked the 5/5/5 10/10. The 5 should be average and this way it's easy for teddies to be tough. It's hard to make it to 10 without seriously draining the other scores. MAYBE if you feel the need to lower the possibility of getting to 10, then we could make 8, 9 and 10 cost two points each.

Whitney
2012-03-18, 04:44 PM
*shrug* I figure it was Xiander's idea in the first place, so (s)he has the veto.

Whitney

Xiander
2012-03-18, 05:04 PM
*shrug* I figure it was Xiander's idea in the first place, so (s)he has the veto.

Whitney

Don't treat me like I'm special, I just spout whatever i think about first :smallwink:

I don't actually have any great reasons to demand the totals be low, just a knee-jerk reaction, probably due to playing to much world of darkness.
Admiral Squish, would you mind sharing your reasons for liking 5 as the average?

I have been wondering about margins of success. We agree that five and six fives a success (six possibly giving two), but how many successes is needed to manage a given task?
One idea is to let tasks have different success margins, easy tasks require one success very hard tasks might require as many as five. Nothing special about that approach. What I would like to suggest is to treat most monsters as a bundle of tasks.
Want to hit the monster over the head and drive it backwards? here's your difficulty. Want to avoid being caught by the monsters teeth? Other difficulty. Want to resist the monsters terrifying presence and stand your ground? Third difficulty.
This has the advantage of freeing the game master from rolling, letting him focus elsewhere. Also monsters can be quite different from Guardians, because it is easier make weird powers and abilities when the only mechanic you need to address is a difficulty to resist.

Anyone have any comments or better ideas?

Generation83
2012-03-22, 05:04 AM
To be honest that sounds like a great idea. Instead of giving a creature "stats" you can just give it a number of succes.

If we go with the idea that an easy task require one succes, then 3 in a stat give a quit good chance of succes and then we could given them some extra points to upgrade their skillz.

I also think that stats should be low. Rather have a hard uphill battle than a teddy slaughter spree.

Heliomance
2012-03-27, 11:38 AM
What have we got left to do? We need a good list of traits and roles, and how much they cost both at chargen and to buy with Imagination. We could probably do with some more setting details and plot ideas for actually running the thing. What else?

SamBurke
2012-03-27, 11:43 AM
I think that's a pretty good list of what we need.

Admiral Squish
2012-03-27, 12:39 PM
I don't actually have any great reasons to demand the totals be low, just a knee-jerk reaction, probably due to playing to much world of darkness.
Admiral Squish, would you mind sharing your reasons for liking 5 as the average?

It's not that I like 5 as the average, it's just that as it was stated, it was extremely simple and intuitive to make characters. With the increasing costs, it becomes much more complicated.

Xiander
2012-03-28, 09:59 AM
I have updated the original post, with a summary of our thoughts this far. I hope it falls to everyone's liking. If you have something to add, or something you want to dispute, feel free to make it known. I wont get very mad about it :smallwink:


I feel we definitely need to expand upon the expected plots, and scenes of the game.
The rooms of the children is of course the central location, as it serves both as a point of origin for the story, and as the likely place for last stands, should it come to that.
The place in the shadows, should also be expanded upon. I like the thought that all shadows lead there, and that all kinds of monster live there, but some more details about it would be nice. Most importantly: why would the Guardians go there?
The rest of the house? how big a role should the kitchen and living room have in these stories?
Outside? I personally don't think the Guardians should ever have to go there. I simply can't fit it in with the themes of the game. Are there any arguments against this line of thought?

SamBurke
2012-03-28, 10:41 AM
Perhaps the toys that we thought were lost were actually dragged into the shadows? The Shadows seek to devour the life force (imagination) from these toys, and the bears need to protect them, both for the sake of the protection of innocents and the safety of their ward.

Xiander
2012-04-05, 02:15 PM
Perhaps the toys that we thought were lost were actually dragged into the shadows? The Shadows seek to devour the life force (imagination) from these toys, and the bears need to protect them, both for the sake of the protection of innocents and the safety of their ward.

Hmm, letting the creatures in the shadows actually feed of the energy of guardians, and perhaps other things guardians treasure, does give us a lot of possible storyhooks.

SamBurke
2012-04-05, 02:26 PM
I remember losing a lot of toys, too (terrible memory and ADHD did that), so it could be one of the more common ways that the shadows try to take imagination.

Xiander
2012-04-05, 02:48 PM
Making the Guardians a target in them self makes a lot of sense thematically. Of course there is room in the fluff for horrors who cannot feed on the meager morsels of guardians, and thus need the more filling imagination of a child to sustain them.

Heliomance
2012-04-11, 05:15 AM
Roles we need:

Doctor
Hero/warrior
Explorer?

I can't remember what roles my toys used to have. We need more, clearly, but
I'm having trouble thinking of them.

Xiander
2012-04-13, 05:09 AM
Roles we need:

Doctor
Hero/warrior
Explorer?

I can't remember what roles my toys used to have. We need more, clearly, but
I'm having trouble thinking of them.

I'll just repost and comment on a list posted earlier in the thread:





Here's my take on the list.

{table=head]Role|Basic theme
Doctor|Heals allies
Monster|Damage and toughness
Soldier|Accuracy and skill
Hero|Defense and leadership
Warrior|All-rounder
Tea Party Guest|Inflicts effects on enemies, buffs on allies
Cowboy|Ropin', shootin', ridin'.
Explorer|Movement and utility
Ninja|Sneaking and martial arts
Scientist|Traps, knowledge, gadgets
Spacer|Robot/astronaut/alien...
Rescuer|Fireman/policeman/EMT[/table]

I generally liked this list. However, I am not sure about Cowboy, ninja and spacer.

On one hand they are deliciously childish and fit the theme of the game well. On the other hand I do feel that they are mostly combinations of things found elsewhere on the list.

A cowboy toy might just as well be represented by the roles explorer and warrior, with abilities fluffed to use rope and guns.

A spacer might as well be a combination of explorer and scientist, or even one of the more combat focused roles, if we are talking about the alien fighting hero kind of spacer.

Other thoughts?

Giegue
2012-04-13, 11:32 AM
I think roll consolidation may be in order, and since we're having both primary and secondary rolls certain archtypes could be made by a combination of primary and secondary rolls. However, one roll I think we are missing is a "mage" roll. While scientist can cover a lot, I remember in my childhood I'd always make my toys have supernatural abilities, magic and superpowers. While I assume superpowers and magic could fall under "hero" if it was hero-themed, I think that a more neutral magic user class would beneficial to represent mystic mentors and evil wizards that tend to be present in children's stories and games(or at least the ones I made up.) Likewise, if you don't like the idea of a "wizard" roll then you could easily make a "villain" roll that is a foil to the hero focus on damage/debuffs/status effects(whichever you think fits) and leadership instead of defense and leadership, so people like me who want to make an evil overlord mastermind toy are not stuck making a tech-using mad scientist and have the option of a mad socrcerer/wizard/magic-user as well.

Also, I must say, this game is totally awesome and I have been lurking this thread for a while.

pensworth
2012-10-16, 11:42 PM
Hello? I can see that this thread is pretty much dead so I'm just going to assume that the nightmares have gotten to xiander and now all his imagination has been sucked out. Since no one sems to care any more I guess I can freely drop in my double set of copper coins of singular american currency. Anyway my idea is that the amazing guardians being but mere children's playthings they don't always stay in their same roles for playtime. They change by the whims of the child. So it only stands to reason that the guardians have the choise to choose their roles for that night. Say for examples sunny (my favorite bear growing up) desided to be a doctor instead of a hero or a soldier. He would have the option to reset the poinsts he put into that role and put it into doctor.

Its just an idea I had while reading this entire thread. Thank you for your time.

Xiander
2012-10-17, 10:50 AM
The rumors of my demise is somewhat exaggerated.

I had expected this thread to be dead and gone by now, and if this counts as Necromancy i apologize, i would however like to note that the concept still has me thinking, and even if the thread is dead, that might not be the last ou hear from me about it.

As note to hopefully spawn some discussion: I thought of something vaguely like a title; "Strange journeys". Perhaps it works better as a subtitle...

Thoughts?

Maquise
2012-10-17, 11:02 AM
"Teddy Bears: Strange Journeys"?

That sounds like something I would play.

Also, I don't think it counts as necromancy if it is in the homebrew forum.

pensworth
2012-10-17, 11:54 AM
Haha! I knew my tallents in the art of life and death was going to come of something! Behold a few words and a spot of the top of the list has risen this dead thread un an eternal undeath! Mwahahahah... I joke of course I cannot take all the claim. So how about my proposal that I stated back in my previous comment, the way I see it if the players had the choise to change their roles it wouldn't feel too much like a class system like in other games. You did say you wanted to keep away from races and classes.

Maquise
2012-10-17, 11:59 AM
I think I read somewhere earlier about roles being based on accessories. For example, if your teddy put on a stethoscope, he was a doctor, if he had a toy sword, a defender, etc.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-10-17, 12:19 PM
After this seemingly died, I kind of ressurected the project.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253346

Xiander
2012-10-17, 12:39 PM
"Teddy Bears: Strange Journeys"?

That sounds like something I would play.

Also, I don't think it counts as necromancy if it is in the homebrew forum.

I'm glad you like the feel of it, i take that as a compliment.

The rules are the same for the entire focus, but I currently have no way of knowing whether this is necromancy or not. If any Mod finds fault with posting in this thread, please let us know.



Haha! I knew my tallents in the art of life and death was going to come of something! Behold a few words and a spot of the top of the list has risen this dead thread un an eternal undeath! Mwahahahah... I joke of course I cannot take all the claim. So how about my proposal that I stated back in my previous comment, the way I see it if the players had the choise to change their roles it wouldn't feel too much like a class system like in other games. You did say you wanted to keep away from races and classes.

I do find it very cool that you posted the very same day i decide to dig up the thread for completely unrelated reasons.

Roles being exchangeable seems like an interesting idea. I recall some ideas about xp spending not being final, it might really work. I need to ponder it a bit more though.



After this seemingly died, I kind of ressurected the project.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253346

That is awesome chainsawhobbit, good luck with it. Hope you dont mind that I stick to this, i am not done with this project, not by a long shot. and good luck with your project.

pensworth
2012-10-17, 09:22 PM
I am glad that you find my idea is interesting, I just remenering me using all of my stuffed animals for different roles and characters when I was young. No one was always the hero and always the villain mostly because I felt it would be mean like always picking that one kid last for the teams. I wanted everyone to have a fair chance.



And thank you chainsaw hobbit you posting your thread actually lead me to this one. I want to give you some credit for helping revive this thread, because you were here longer than me and you test ran the concept for everyone working on it.

DracoDei
2012-10-17, 10:22 PM
Make sure that re-specing for a given night of adventuring doesn't eat up too much time at the table, especially for games where the in-game night breaks don't match up with the session-breaks.

Then again, it is a pretty simple system so it shouldn't be too much of a problem for adults playing it. And I THINK this was supposed to be a game for adults.

Xiander
2012-10-18, 02:40 AM
Make sure that re-specing for a given night of adventuring doesn't eat up too much time at the table, especially for games where the in-game night breaks don't match up with the session-breaks.

Then again, it is a pretty simple system so it shouldn't be too much of a problem for adults playing it. And I THINK this was supposed to be a game for adults.

Simplicity of system is a central design goal here. For exactly the purposes you mention.

I would not assume that all players are adults, but i do assume that most players are above 16, and thus should be able to figure the system out.

pensworth
2012-10-18, 11:31 AM
Make sure that re-specing for a given night of adventuring doesn't eat up too much time at the table, especially for games where the in-game night breaks don't match up with the session-breaks.

It should be a simple matter if all the ranks/levels in said roles are worth the same, this way it should be a simple matter of exchanging point values.

The only problem i see with this system are the abilities that go along with the ranks; if we go with the ability pool/list that we choose from each rank it would give more variety and no two doctor bears would be the same but in contrast more book work taking away some of the simplicity, although if we choose to take an ability and lock it onto a rank then it would be a simple matter of putting a chart of all the levels for every role and stating each ability that goes with each rank, thus eliminating most of the book work but removing some flavor with this game.

there might be a way to combine the two options with a tree like chart but that would be hard to figure out at the moment until we know more.

Yitzi
2012-10-18, 11:53 AM
It should be a simple matter if all the ranks/levels in said roles are worth the same, this way it should be a simple matter of exchanging point values.

The only problem i see with this system are the abilities that go along with the ranks; if we go with the ability pool/list that we choose from each rank it would give more variety and no two doctor bears would be the same but in contrast more book work taking away some of the simplicity, although if we choose to take an ability and lock it onto a rank then it would be a simple matter of putting a chart of all the levels for every role and stating each ability that goes with each rank, thus eliminating most of the book work but removing some flavor with this game.

there might be a way to combine the two options with a tree like chart but that would be hard to figure out at the moment until we know more.

The main problem with making all ranks/levels worth the same is that it encourages focusing on one particular ability.

pensworth
2012-10-18, 09:31 PM
The main problem with making all ranks/levels worth the same is that it encourages focusing on one particular ability.

Are you assuming that I meant all the ranks in one role cost the same? Oh no no, I meant that all the roles at level one cost the same all roles at level two cost the same ect ect. If level one costs 1 point for doctor it will cost 1 point for hero level one. As I seem to remember the abilities level up passively based on role level.

Yitzi
2012-10-19, 10:19 AM
Are you assuming that I meant all the ranks in one role cost the same? Oh no no, I meant that all the roles at level one cost the same all roles at level two cost the same ect ect. If level one costs 1 point for doctor it will cost 1 point for hero level one. As I seem to remember the abilities level up passively based on role level.

Well, of course. That's the most logical way to do things; if you want to make a particular role "harder" to get it makes more sense just to spread the abilities over more levels.

Meriss
2012-10-20, 07:56 AM
*Bam**BAM**BAM*

This is the sound of my head hitting my desk repeatedly for not finding this SOONER!

This is made of win! I sooo want to contribute. I've got an enourmous post coming. I'm presntly at work though so it must wait. I'll noodle over some of my ideas while working.

Xiander
2012-10-20, 08:25 AM
I really need to read through the entire thread and think it all over carefully, because so many awesome ideas are in here.

Sadly I have a lot of things going on lately, so i lack both time and energy. Nevertheless, i will do it as soon as i find the time. I the meantime, please do keep posting awesome stuff and keep the thread going.

:smallsmile::smallbiggrin::smallsmile:

Meriss
2012-10-20, 02:33 PM
Would you be horribly opposed to tracking Bravery seperately for purposes of HP?

I'm thinking of something similar to Hunter: the Vigil's Willpower mechanic, maybe liberally added to Exalted's Willpower mechanic. So you can have a maximum number of Temporary Bravery based on your permanent bravery.

So it would look something like this on a sheet.

Bravery 00000
Bravery [][][][][]

Though calling it something like Temporary Bravery Feels ... cheap to me somehow.

Meriss
2012-10-20, 08:17 PM
Okay I got some more stuff.

This stuff I thought up earlier today

Concept
Love it, love it, love it. I'm sold. Though while the plush cuddly toys (I used to call them stuffies) should be the focus, this does not preclude allowing alternate Guardians to be built. Seriously who wouldn't want to play a big inflatable Godzilla (Zilla Smash! Ooppsies, saorrry bear-bear)

Stats

Yes, yes, yes. A million times yes. I love the idea of Bravery as some form of health mechanic. Though I have one small suggestion. What if we break Bravery into a stat and a resource. I'm stealing shamelessly from Exalted now, but you have permanent Bravery and a seperete track of temporary Bravery, which is your health mechanic. Your HP is thus limited by your permanent Bravery, but has real mechanical consequences. (Say losing a die from your pool, your tasks become one level harder I dunno) I'm also not loving the idea of having the name for both be Bravery, maybe call the temp stat Courage, Spirit or something? To regain HP you could then spend your permanent Bravery to refill one or two boxes of your temporary (floating) stat.

This is newish

I'm also about to pitch an over haul of my original concept. What if we shuffle the names for stats around a bit. While Bravery, Friendship and Imagination are just awesome. It almost feels like they should be doing something. Not just sitting around tracking your stats. What if we shuffled it around so that your Semi Static Stats (They are not going to be just sitting there, I'll explain later.) would be Courage, Loyalty and Wonder. Then your Active stats would be Bravery, Friendship, and Imagination. It just feels more active. (I dunno maybe this is less about mechanics and more about me being a petty language nerd.)

For the semi static stat my original idea holds though, you've spent/lost all of your floating stats. You may spend (though I do like Hunter's new "risk" mechanic, Spent points are not absolutely lost, merely gambled on a roll of the dice.) Plus you can always spend XP to raise it back up. (Though this should be harder than Character creation.)

Attributes

These should be flat stats, simply adding to a dice pool or adding success to a roll.

I've also tweaked the names a bit to incorperate a element of whimsy into the game. (Any property involving sentient toys should have some whimsy to it, even if only to underscore the horror and make it more horrible.)

Your strength stat would be called Brawn, Your Speed called Hustle or Bustle (These just make me smile) I love Wits, and am totally behind it.

I'm also thinking of adding another flat stat to represent Fighting Spirit or Willpower (Though this may be redundant. What it does for you, not totally sure, maybe just to allow those brave but dumb as post bears and Zillas to exist?) It would be called Moxie.

Roles
Love 'em.

Though I would like to add a few to the master list

Leader/Chief - Sort of a crowd control, tactics, buffing role. I recall my own Guardian filling the role of clan leader. (Okay so at that age I didn't recognize him as such, but he was, he was my constant bedtime companion, only to be seperated from me by absolute nessecity. (Like laundry, head lice, what not) He was the boss of my stuffies, mayor of toyville, whatever. Think Woody in the first Toy Story movie before Buzz shows up.)

Heavy/Brute - Brawn over brains. Totally a Brawn centric role, all about strong man tricks and gimmicks. (Again recalling my own childhood I had stuffed Gorilla. Totally, gruff combative, strong as steel dude.)

More to come need to sleep.

pensworth
2012-11-04, 09:59 PM
Aw I hope this doesn't die again, we need this to be alive so we can play sometime... eventually. I am seriously wanting to pull this game out at the table and share it with my group and friends.

Maquise
2012-11-04, 10:16 PM
I would feel better if we had one space for all of the ideas we have so far, just to see where we stand.

Admiral Squish
2012-11-04, 10:47 PM
I think we could come up with a pretty clear basic character already. What we need to work on right now is what the various roles do, and then we need to come up with either a library of premade nightmares, or an easy-to-use system for designing them.

Admiral Squish
2012-11-06, 02:24 PM
Nobody else is gonna step up? Alright, I'll do it.

Here's another crack at the role list.
{table=head]Role|Focus
Doctor| Healing allies
Leader| Buffing allies and inspiration
Explorer| Movement and utility
Genius| Gadgets and knowledge
Speedster| Gets a mount/car and speed abilities
Gunner| Ranged weapon user
Sneak| Stealth-based abilities
Heavy| Strength and toughness
Warrior| Damage and skill
[/table]

I made them a little more generic, so you can mix and match to get more possible characters out of it. For example:
Cowboy would probably be a Gunner/Speedster
Ninja would be Warrior/Sneak
Superhero would be Heavy/Leader
An EMT would be a Doctor/Speedster
A super robot would be a Heavy/Genius
An army man would be Gunner/Warrior
A secret agent would be a Sneak/Genius

Plus, there's nine of them, with three based on each ability.
Power has Heavy, Warrior, and Gunner.
Hustle had Explorer, Speedster, and Sneak.
Wits has Doctor, Leader, and Genius.


Unrelated: How are we doing rolls, again? I can't remember if it was a roll with a bonus, or a dice pool.

Meriss
2012-11-06, 02:58 PM
Nobody else is gonna step up? Alright, I'll do it.

Roles snipped

Aww yeah, somebody likes the way I think. :smallbiggrin:



Plus, there's nine of them, with three based on each ability.
Power has Heavy, Warrior, and Gunner.
Hustle had Explorer, Speedster, and Sneak.
Wits has Doctor, Leader, and Genius.

HECK yes!

Which lets you do fun things with your Advantages. Thus basing them off your Abilities.



Unrelated: How are we doing rolls, again? I can't remember if it was a roll with a bonus, or a dice pool.

It never did get hashed out. Xiander pitched a Pool based system. Which I like for making the game feel closer to World of Darkness which inspired it.

Or a bonus to roll in which case we need to work out how much bonus the roll gets and what it is based on.

Also we need to work out what type of dice we wanted. I'm leaning d6 for ease of play, they are usually fairly quick to pick up and most folk have a royal ton of em.

Though again the source material suggests d10.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-11-06, 03:08 PM
My crack at classes:

Warrior: Well-balanced melee character focusing on skill over brawn. Modest damage output and health, but good defenses, great accuracy, and lots of short-range debuffing and control abilities.

Monster: Melee character focusing on stealth, mobility, and damage output. Can take a hit when it needs to, but isn't able to sustain direct combat for too long. Good at hit-and-run tactics.

Guardian: Melee character focused on defense and tanking. Can also take hits for allies. Lots of self-sacrifice related abilities.

Hunter: Archery-focused damage dealer with additional stealth-related abilities and lots of good exploration skills.

Sage: Sort of a mage/priest that draws power from the child. Lots of healing and buffing.

Admiral Squish
2012-11-06, 04:38 PM
I do like some of your ideas, Meriss, but I'm not find of adding a third trio of stats into the system. I really like the simplicity of the six stats.

I'm not sure if a pool system works properly with the stat system we came up with. If we go with a d6 pool system, then we'd have to make it success on a 5&6, which ends up making it too easy to get a success, or just 6, which is still pretty easy to do with a specialized ability. But then, adding ~5 to a d6 roll seems like it would make too much of a difference between a specialized character and an unspecialized one.

I support a d20 based system, adding your ability dots to relevant rolls, and possibly ranks in a relevant role. That way, we pretty much have a maximum bonus, to any given roll, of +15. Of course, you're only gonna get that kinda bonus with really high-powered characters. On average, you'd be rolling with a +5-10 bonus. Doesn't feel as cool as rolling giant pools of d6s, but I think it'd be easier and more efficient.

SamBurke
2012-11-26, 06:46 PM
I do like some of your ideas, Meriss, but I'm not find of adding a third trio of stats into the system. I really like the simplicity of the six stats.

I'm not sure if a pool system works properly with the stat system we came up with. If we go with a d6 pool system, then we'd have to make it success on a 5&6, which ends up making it too easy to get a success, or just 6, which is still pretty easy to do with a specialized ability. But then, adding ~5 to a d6 roll seems like it would make too much of a difference between a specialized character and an unspecialized one.

I support a d20 based system, adding your ability dots to relevant rolls, and possibly ranks in a relevant role. That way, we pretty much have a maximum bonus, to any given roll, of +15. Of course, you're only gonna get that kinda bonus with really high-powered characters. On average, you'd be rolling with a +5-10 bonus. Doesn't feel as cool as rolling giant pools of d6s, but I think it'd be easier and more efficient.

Depends on if you want a high or low chance of success.

Rolling with a ton of d6 is also a really cool feel.

Zovc
2012-11-27, 12:32 AM
Hope I'm not interrupting anything. I just saw this thread, and am in love with the idea.

I have been reminded of this song (http://youtu.be/bTyiddyIe9k).

I'll try to provide something constructive when I make it through the meat of the thread and get caught up.

Admiral Squish
2012-11-27, 02:23 PM
Well, whichever system we go with in the end, we can pretty easily adjust the various monsters' DCs to fit. So, really, it doesn't matter that much. I just like the d20 because it's just one die and it's easier to keep track of.

We need to settle this before we can get into the rest of this, though. I call for a vote. A d6 pool system, or a d20+mod system, speak up and cast your vote.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2012-11-27, 05:06 PM
I say d20 + mod.

SamBurke
2012-11-27, 06:32 PM
I vote for piles of D6s.

XionUnborn01
2012-11-28, 01:38 AM
I love this concept and having read through the entire thread have come up with a few ideas to throw out, though it's late so I'll save them for later.

But I would like to cast my vote for a D6 system. I think it would be more simple to teach/learn. Something like the Burning Wheel system, you get to roll XD6, looking for x successes.

To re-affirm what someone else said, most people have some d6 lying around, whether they're into gaming or not.

Meriss
2012-11-28, 05:08 PM
I would like to know where the + mod would be coming from? How would we be determining the mod?

Is it based on The Holy Triune (Bravery, Imagination, Friendship) or the physical stats, some combo of both?

What? If any combo of BIF and physical, then d6 has to be the way to go other wise the target DCs will be horribly inflated if they are based of the d20.

Thoughts?

Admiral Squish
2012-11-28, 05:40 PM
I would like to know where the + mod would be coming from? How would we be determining the mod?

Is it based on The Holy Triune (Bravery, Imagination, Friendship) or the physical stats, some combo of both?

What? If any combo of BIF and physical, then d6 has to be the way to go other wise the target DCs will be horribly inflated if they are based of the d20.

Thoughts?

The idea is the mod would be ability + other mod, usually ranks in a relevant role. I talked in detail near the end of the last page.

For example, one of my ideas for warrior is that if warrior's your primary role, you gain a warrior weapon of some sort that adds your warrior ranks to attack rolls.

The Cats
2012-11-29, 02:13 AM
I love you all so dang much.

Meriss
2012-11-29, 09:39 AM
The idea is the mod would be ability + other mod, usually ranks in a relevant role. I talked in detail near the end of the last page.

For example, one of my ideas for warrior is that if warrior's your primary role, you gain a warrior weapon of some sort that adds your warrior ranks to attack rolls.

So a roll would look like this?

1d20+3 Power+1 Warrior ability=1d20+4

Then use Imagination, bravery or friendship to boost those rolls?

I could get behind that.

XionUnborn01
2012-11-30, 06:09 PM
So a roll would look like this?

1d20+3 Power+1 Warrior ability=1d20+4

Then use Imagination, bravery or friendship to boost those rolls?

I could get behind that.

If that is what the system would be, I could also get behind that...I may have voted early.

Xiander
2013-02-01, 04:27 AM
Am I still welcome in here?

I keep meaning to do awesome things with this system, but never finding the time. I might post something deep at important later today.

Thanks to Admiral squish for picking up the slack :smallsmile:

SamBurke
2013-02-01, 10:09 AM
Am I still welcome in here?

I keep meaning to do awesome things with this system, but never finding the time. I might post something deep at important later today.

Thanks to Admiral squish for picking up the slack :smallsmile:

I love it when this stuff shows up on my subscribed threads again. :smallbiggrin: