CLeric Advice

[AtwasAwamps]

So, while I love 4e, I'm currently in a quandary. A DM who hasn't run in a while is starting up his game again and we are being allowed to redesign the characters we have in the game as long as they keep the same persona and race. Fine with me. The problem arises as such...we have silly party balance and I've suddenly been given a second character. Here's the party line-up (I've included the playstyle/build of the character when I know it):

Warden (Not sure what kind, but definitely well-built and designed for standard Warden-takes-damage-whee)

Barbarian (Charging, so whatever that is. Good player, knows how to use his character)

Invoker (We have no idea what he's doing. Pretty sure he's changing his character into a wizard or psion)

Druid (Predator, but we have no idea what she's doing and neither does she. I can only pray she changes this character to something useful and interesting instead of an extremely lackluster striker/controller)

Warlord (Tactical Lazylord, that's me)
Cleric (I've just been given this character, haven't looked at the sheet or redesigned it yet)

So, current problem: We have one striker. Fights go on forever, which mean that the cleric and warlord blow ALL of their healing to keep the party just barely together, even on easy fights. I'm trying to think of a way to improve party balance, and thus need some advice (Note that RPing in this campaign is...modest, at best. As much as I love to RP, the DM in this case is very much oriented on railroading us into the next fight against his awesome badass monsters and NPCs, but meh, I'm playing to keep the peace in my group). So, advice needed:

1) Should I rebuild my lazylord into a powerful striker and rely on rebuilding the cleric into a healing machine to deal with the damage we will take?

2) I know very little about how to optimize clerics...ideally, I want someone who can heal like mad while being either able to take a lot of damage or have very high defenses.

Thanks ahead of time!

[WickerNipple]

Properly built and itemized Predator Druids can make excellent strikers while still retaining plenty of Control and/or Enablement. Horned Helm + Claw Gloves + Staff of Ruin + Cunning Stalker will make a heroic tier Barbarian cry. Thorn Spray + Rending Claws is one of the best nova enablement combos in the game.

If you feel you're lacking offensive potential, the idea of changing your lazylord to something else while keeping the cleric is pure madness. Lose the cleric for an additional striker, if anything.

You didn't tell us what level the characters are. This makes a big difference.

[Tvtyrant]

I just started playing, so you probably know more about the game than I do. That being said....

So the basic problem as you see it is that you need more damage output in order to end fights more quickly?

Well, switching the Warlord, Cleric or Druid for a TWF Ranger would increase the damage by a lot. They are about as strikery as you get.

However I think there is a good chance that the damage the party is taking is actually from the lack of a good controller. You shouldn't really be taking much damage at all if the controller and defender are doing their jobs.

[Kurald Galain]

You didn't tell us what level the characters are. This makes a big difference.

Yeah, I was going to ask the same thing. Plus, what is the level of your average opponent?

Do you have access to items? Getting the right items make a huge diffence in how much damage you do.

How good is your group at basic optimization? By which I mean having a high score in your primary ability, getting Expertise and +3 weapons, stuff like that. Barbarians should be doing lots of damage by default.

Players who, as you state, have no idea what they're doing should probably be playing anything but a controller (like invoker or druid). Controllers are the hardest role to play well, and a poorly played controller doesn't really contribute. Strikers are generally the easiest role to play well.

[DragonBaneDM]

I've played both a Taclord and a Pacifist Healic before, so I think I can be of assistance!

I think they'd work well together, I really do. Enabling is very different than what the Healic can manage, but the Healic can also boost damage vulnerability and make enemies crippled, making the offensive bent of the party fantastic.

I truly wish I was you. I'd kill for the ability to see completely different leaders ROCKIN' it man. Okay, so you know what to do with the Lazylord it looks like, so here's my Cleric advice:

Pacifist Healer is a good feat. It's not amazing and it's not necessary, but it's cool fluff and is how you're gonna turn one of your Warden's surges into 3.

Astral Seal is a great at-will. Debuffs enemies, and since you're coordinating the guy granting attacks, you can probably assign who's going to be getting the hit points from the attack. However, it's that -2 to all defenses you're really going after. The Life Domain is sweet too.

Sacred Flame should be your other at will. The THP will be really handy, but what you really want is the saving throw!

As for encounters, I've found that sticking to penalties is awesome, especially since your controller hasn't really found a schtick yet. Stuff like Bane, Exacting Utterance, Sever the Source down the line. Boosting vulnerability is a great tool Clerics get in Paragon Tier, and couples well with an offensively bent Warlord.

Finally, this is the weirdest advice I can give you: Stick to Level 1 Dailies for awhile! Moment of Glory is the best, trust me when I say that. But holy CRAP does Astral Condemnation cripple a boss from turn 1 of the fight!!! Finally, I just love Beacon of Hope. You probably don't need it, but that buff is FUN!

Deva would be a cool race for it. Kalashtar matches just as well, but getting rid of dazed and stunned early helps you with these critical Sustain Minors. Your Dailies are GAME changing.

EDIT: The issue with this build is that they're squishy... Wis/Cha does not lend itself to anything but a high Will... Really it comes down to this. You're the healbot and the rest of the party's gotta protect you.

Oh! And Symbol of the Holy Nimbus! AV2! I friggin' love it!

[Raimun]

I would advice you to rebuild the Cleric to a powerful melee striker of some sort. That way your party would have two of them, which will benefit the lazy lord and overall team offense.

Granted, the Cleric would be a lot better healer. However, if you struggle to stay alive with two leaders and you are planning to axe the other and add a striker, then one won't be enough anyway. If you focus on offense and kill them before they kill you, it just might be enough.

However, if you do end up with Cleric, do take Moment of Glory.

[AtwasAwamps]

Cleric and Warlord are at level 8, everyone else is level 9.

The barbarian is great at building a character and so is the warden. They're both doing a great job and actually both do very solid damage (Yes, even the warden), especially with the help of the Taclord.

I agree that ditching the cleric would be a better plan, but since the cleric is technically not mine...bleah. I'll see if I can do something about it, I just figured since clerics have the highest healing potential, I could make up the offensive difference without suffering on the hitpoint front by replacing the Taclord instead of the cleric.

The predator druid will never do a lot of damage. She is our worst player, tactically and optimization-wise.

I can try to double up on this and see what I can pull off.

[WickerNipple]

I just figured since clerics have the highest healing potential, I could make up the offensive difference without suffering on the hitpoint front by replacing the Taclord instead of the cleric.

From my personal experience w/ 4e I think you're going about it in the wrong direction. The parties I see struggling the most are the ones trying to out-tank/out-heal the encounters. Because of the nature of 4e and how resource management (limited healing surges per day / available surges per encounter / dailes / etc) plays out over the course of a day I find all out offense to be a massively better choice than trying to further invest in more healing.

In fact I'd say pure healing is the worst possible approach for handling encounters. I would also say the difference between the Cleric and Warlord in terms of healing isn't that huge - especially post 11 when you pick up the feat Fight On. Yes, Clerics do heal better, but dead monsters don't hurt you at all.

The Cleric does have some very strong options, particularly massive Daily debuffs.


The predator druid will never do a lot of damage. She is our worst player, tactically and optimization-wise.

Help her! Tell her what to buy and take. Obviously it all depends on the person and how you handle it, but I often find players that just don't care about tactics and optimization also often don't care if someone else makes their character sheet.